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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:38:32 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lokifox: Feel free to peruse this mountain of data. 18% isn't needed unless they kick the can for another decade. Pretty cool PDF on the page linked that has dozens and dozens of ways to fix the issue (which congress will ignore). https://www.actuary.org/socialsecurity Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lokifox: Originally Posted By Bat15: Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: They would have to increase FICA to 18% in order to just meet current obligations. Do you have a source for your claim? Feel free to peruse this mountain of data. 18% isn't needed unless they kick the can for another decade. Pretty cool PDF on the page linked that has dozens and dozens of ways to fix the issue (which congress will ignore). https://www.actuary.org/socialsecurity Thank you for the link to the what if game. They did a good job of explaining the issues and possible solutions. I do take exception to the idea that Social Security was designed to provide for all of your retirement needs. It was envisioned as being one of three sources of income in your old age. The three sources were: Social Security, Pensions and your savings. Pensions are a defined benefit plan which has been replaced by a 401k type defined contribution plans. Savings of course includes savings accounts and investments. I also reject the idea lower earners must be made more equitable than we are already doing. One person sounded like they and their partner worked in low income jobs and felt they shoukd get more than the current progressive system provides. The game was interesting and I succeeded in fully funding Social Security by raising the retirement age to 70, removing the income cap and gradually raising the rate from 12.4 to 14.4. The revised SS gave a five year credit for home care givers, removed the cap on how much a high income worker could get. My plan funded 116% of the total estimated SS costs. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:39:50 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Procyon: Of course… Guess when I am first eligible for the SS I’ve been paying into since 1989? Yep, 2035. Yep. Rugged pulled on GenX. I guess GenX politicians are partly to blame though. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:42:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By apexcrusade: Sure. Bump it for newborns. Why? People born half a decade ago benefit from increased life expectancy just as much. Or is it just that we can’t cut off the “forced insurance program in case you outlived your financial preparations in old age” for people who haven’t done that yet? 62 and fresh retired ain’t outliving financial preparations. It’s a fact. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:43:46 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: It isn't when you take into account that your money was already spent paying the folks collecting while you were working. It was always going to be someone else's money paying for the retirees. Beyond just the complete incompatibility with a free market, it's also unsustainable. Taxes WILL have to be raised to keep it around, or retirement ages raised. There simply isn't enough production out there to pay people to do nothing. Genuinely RIGHT NOW Congress could stop this. They could do it WITHOUT taking away social security from the people collecting. Just phase it out. 20 years or out from retirement? You can still collect but at a reduced rate based on your age. Let younger people get higher contribution rates to 401ks and iras and shrink the tax as needed. I would gladly give up all of my social security so my kids don't have to pay into it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By Laydown: Since my wife DID die 7 months before her FRA while chasing the last goddam dollar instead of retiring at 62 like I told her she should, this is the part where I throw my head back and laugh. I did catch your sarcasm though... There are those of us who worked, saved, paid into the system, and also invested on our own. In my case, I spent 45 years paying in to SS. I have a comfortable retirement now due to working, serving and investing. SS is a part of that - an earned part. It's offensive to be compared to SSI recipients in any way. It isn't when you take into account that your money was already spent paying the folks collecting while you were working. It was always going to be someone else's money paying for the retirees. Beyond just the complete incompatibility with a free market, it's also unsustainable. Taxes WILL have to be raised to keep it around, or retirement ages raised. There simply isn't enough production out there to pay people to do nothing. Genuinely RIGHT NOW Congress could stop this. They could do it WITHOUT taking away social security from the people collecting. Just phase it out. 20 years or out from retirement? You can still collect but at a reduced rate based on your age. Let younger people get higher contribution rates to 401ks and iras and shrink the tax as needed. I would gladly give up all of my social security so my kids don't have to pay into it. That sounds like an excellent idea. Because no one can be trusted to contribute to 401Ks it will be necessary for the government to manage them. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:44:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Sandbowl1980]
[#5]
It's been my observation since I've been on this forum that social security posts are disguised as nothing but boomer hate posts.
I've never seen a post attacking medicaid. That our tax dollars are paid to those who've done absolutely nothing to earn it. Millions of illegal criminals who are getting free money, medical and free housing. But instead let's attack those that actually contributed to America instead. Plus if the federal government would stop using the social security funds as their private piggy bank it'd not be the topic of choice to use to create posts by sorry ass holes looking for a way to project their hatred to older Americans who actually did work and paid into the program. I also see a lot of BS of people saying I'll not take it when I get older. What I bunch of BS liars. You'll be just like everyone else and say I paid into it and I'm getting my money back. I've heard people say that before and guess what? They're drawing it now because now, their tone changed and they say it's my money. I paid into it. With all the other things that are corrupted in this nation. There are fools that post this crap with sole purpose of turning Americans against Americans. People that hate older Americans so much that they want to create a divide. I suggest you asshole call your boomer mother and wishing them a happy mother's day before taking them behind the shed and putting a bullet in them because you consider boomers to be a burden on society. Because that's the way it comes across when reading these sorry ass posts. 😐 These kinds of posts are nothing but hate post towards older boomer mothers, dads and grandparents. When the hatred should be towards the real thieves. The federal government for steal social security funding for their pet projects. Social Security is primarily funded through a dedicated payroll tax, which is deducted from a person’s paycheck. The program also receives funding from income taxes that some beneficiaries have to pay on a portion of their benefits, as well as interest from the trust funds’ investment holdings. Social Security income is deposited into two financial accounts called trust funds – the Old-Age Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Fund. The trust funds are used to pay out Social Security benefits and cover administrative costs, according to the Social Security Administration (SSA). The trust funds hold money that isn’t needed in the current year to pay benefits and other expenses. By law, that money is invested in special Treasury bonds that are guaranteed by the U.S. government and earn interest, SSA explains. “Those bonds basically are an IOU from the government to Social Security,” Mary Johnson, Social Security and Medicare policy analyst for The Senior Citizens League, told VERIFY. “In other words, the Social Security trust fund, which is what is authorized to pay benefits, has been loaning money to the U.S. government.” When a person buys a Treasury bond, they are also loaning money to the U.S. government for a set period of time and will get it back in the future with interest. The Treasury needs to borrow money when the federal government’s budget is in a deficit, meaning its spending exceeds revenues from taxes and other sources. the federal government’s budget is always in a deficit, meaning its spending exceeds revenues from taxes and other sources. So who the real thieves and who should this post really be about. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:45:11 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By swampvol: Yep. Rugged pulled on GenX. I guess GenX politicians are partly to blame though. GenX was and still is hopelessly outnumbered. The baby boomers were already a historically large demographic and saw further decline with Roe V Wade.  They never had a shot. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:53:01 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sandbowl1980: It's been my observation since I've been on this forum that social security posts are disguised as nothing but boomer hate posts. I've never seen a post attacking medicaid. That our tax dollars are paid to those who've done absolutely nothing to earn it. Millions of illegal criminals who are getting free money, medical and free housing. But instead let's attack those that actually contributed to America instead. Plus if the federal government would stop using the social security funds as their private piggy bank it'd not be the topic of choice to use to create posts by sorry ass holes looking for a way to project their hatred to older Americans who actually did work and paid into the program. I also see a lot of BS of people saying I'll not take it when I get older. What I bunch of BS liars. You'll be just like everyone else and say I paid into it and I'm getting my money back. I've heard people say that before and guess what? They're drawing it now because now, their tone changed and they say it's my money. I paid into it. With all the other things that are corrupted in this nation. There are fools that post this crap with sole purpose of turning Americans against Americans. People that hate older Americans so much that they want to create a divide. I suggest you asshole call your boomer mother and wishing them a happy mother's day before taking them behind the shed and putting a bullet in them because you consider boomers to be a burden on society. Because that's the way it comes across when reading these sorry ass posts. 😐 These kinds of posts are nothing but hate post towards older boomer mothers, dads and grandparents. When the hatred should be towards the real thieves. The federal government for steal social security funding for their pet projects. the federal government’s budget is always in a deficit, meaning its spending exceeds revenues from taxes and other sources. So who the real thieves and who should this post really be about. Don't hate hate player hate the game and all that. Anyone opting to not collect Social Security with the opportunity to do so is foolish. Medicaid is already understood to be welfare and most here would put it on the chopping block the first chance they get. You have an actuary in this thread along with other financial folks who do this shit for a living and understand the horror that is social security. The fact that it cannot go on forever. The fact that every year it gets prolonged it gets more expensive. The fact that even putting the money you paid into SS being funneled to a even the most basic of investments would have netted you more money to work with. The fact that your money that you contributed has been gone for decades. Those of us who are going to be AROUND after 2035 have some pretty serious shit to figure out and "fuck you pay me" isn't going to work for us because there won't BE any money to pay. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:59:47 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paul_Sothern: Forgive me for not knowing the difference between SS and SSDI as fortunately I have not been disabled so going on disability never entered my mind. So I looked it up. The average SSDI payment for someone with dependents is $2,720 per month. That is considerably higher than the average SS payment. No wonder they cannot fill hourly jobs when faking a disability pays so well. The way things are currently set up, only chumps work.  I am a former chump having retired about ten years ago.  If you are shocked by how much people get on disability, don’t look at all the welfare benefits available. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:06:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: I have the option of not buying the insurance or buying policies with lower coverage. What about government mandated Healthcare? Are we okay with that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By Bat15: What happens to all your car insurance premiums if you never have a claim? Do you drive into a tree so you can file a claim? What happens to all your homeowners insurance premiums if you never have a claim. Do you burn your house down to collect! What happens to all your health insurance claims not used to pay for health care? Do you injure yourself so you can collect? If you have term life insurance. Do you kill yourself the day before the policy expires? Do you understand why people buy insurance? I have the option of not buying the insurance or buying policies with lower coverage. What about government mandated Healthcare? Are we okay with that? Do you really have the option of buying insurance or not? Lenders require full coverage on your house. The state requires liability coverage on your car. Lenders require coverage to protect their car loan. The federal government did require health insurance coverage but Trump removed the penalty. Sometimes society requires you to be financially responsible. It is part of the cost you pay to live in a civilized country. But I don’t want SS, I will provide my own retirement funds. That is great if people actually did that. Most won’t save enough and would wind up on welfare. Society is not going to let granny starve. It is better that people are part of the SS system and provide at least part of the money they will need in retirement. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:08:24 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sandbowl1980: It's been my observation since I've been on this forum that social security posts are disguised as nothing but boomer hate posts. I've never seen a post attacking medicaid. That our tax dollars are paid to those who've done absolutely nothing to earn it. Millions of illegal criminals who are getting free money, medical and free housing. But instead let's attack those that actually contributed to America instead. Plus if the federal government would stop using the social security funds as their private piggy bank it'd not be the topic of choice to use to create posts by sorry ass holes looking for a way to project their hatred to older Americans who actually did work and paid into the program. I also see a lot of BS of people saying I'll not take it when I get older. What I bunch of BS liars. You'll be just like everyone else and say I paid into it and I'm getting my money back. I've heard people say that before and guess what? They're drawing it now because now, their tone changed and they say it's my money. I paid into it. With all the other things that are corrupted in this nation. There are fools that post this crap with sole purpose of turning Americans against Americans. People that hate older Americans so much that they want to create a divide. I suggest you asshole call your boomer mother and wishing them a happy mother's day before taking them behind the shed and putting a bullet in them because you consider boomers to be a burden on society. Because that's the way it comes across when reading these sorry ass posts. 😐 These kinds of posts are nothing but hate post towards older boomer mothers, dads and grandparents. When the hatred should be towards the real thieves. The federal government for steal social security funding for their pet projects. the federal government’s budget is always in a deficit, meaning its spending exceeds revenues from taxes and other sources. So who the real thieves and who should this post really be about. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sandbowl1980: It's been my observation since I've been on this forum that social security posts are disguised as nothing but boomer hate posts. I've never seen a post attacking medicaid. That our tax dollars are paid to those who've done absolutely nothing to earn it. Millions of illegal criminals who are getting free money, medical and free housing. But instead let's attack those that actually contributed to America instead. Plus if the federal government would stop using the social security funds as their private piggy bank it'd not be the topic of choice to use to create posts by sorry ass holes looking for a way to project their hatred to older Americans who actually did work and paid into the program. I also see a lot of BS of people saying I'll not take it when I get older. What I bunch of BS liars. You'll be just like everyone else and say I paid into it and I'm getting my money back. I've heard people say that before and guess what? They're drawing it now because now, their tone changed and they say it's my money. I paid into it. With all the other things that are corrupted in this nation. There are fools that post this crap with sole purpose of turning Americans against Americans. People that hate older Americans so much that they want to create a divide. I suggest you asshole call your boomer mother and wishing them a happy mother's day before taking them behind the shed and putting a bullet in them because you consider boomers to be a burden on society. Because that's the way it comes across when reading these sorry ass posts. 😐 These kinds of posts are nothing but hate post towards older boomer mothers, dads and grandparents. When the hatred should be towards the real thieves. The federal government for steal social security funding for their pet projects. Social Security is primarily funded through a dedicated payroll tax, which is deducted from a person’s paycheck. The program also receives funding from income taxes that some beneficiaries have to pay on a portion of their benefits, as well as interest from the trust funds’ investment holdings. Social Security income is deposited into two financial accounts called trust funds – the Old-Age Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Fund. The trust funds are used to pay out Social Security benefits and cover administrative costs, according to the Social Security Administration (SSA). The trust funds hold money that isn’t needed in the current year to pay benefits and other expenses. By law, that money is invested in special Treasury bonds that are guaranteed by the U.S. government and earn interest, SSA explains. “Those bonds basically are an IOU from the government to Social Security,” Mary Johnson, Social Security and Medicare policy analyst for The Senior Citizens League, told VERIFY. “In other words, the Social Security trust fund, which is what is authorized to pay benefits, has been loaning money to the U.S. government.” When a person buys a Treasury bond, they are also loaning money to the U.S. government for a set period of time and will get it back in the future with interest. The Treasury needs to borrow money when the federal government’s budget is in a deficit, meaning its spending exceeds revenues from taxes and other sources. the federal government’s budget is always in a deficit, meaning its spending exceeds revenues from taxes and other sources. So who the real thieves and who should this post really be about. The only hate I have is that if I was allowed to opt out of the Old Age portion I could have a giant pile of readily accessible money in retirement vs. being divvied out little chunks of my contributions. The probability of my receiving back the amount of my/employer contributions with projected growth if invested conservatively is extremely low. I would love an opt out option with tax credits for previous contributions but that'll never happen. The whole thing is burrowed so deep into the heart of the country that pulling it out would result in total chaos. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:10:09 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Don't hate hate player hate the game and all that. Anyone opting to not collect Social Security with the opportunity to do so is foolish. Medicaid is already understood to be welfare and most here would put it on the chopping block the first chance they get. You have an actuary in this thread along with other financial folks who do this shit for a living and understand the horror that is social security. The fact that it cannot go on forever. The fact that every year it gets prolonged it gets more expensive. The fact that even putting the money you paid into SS being funneled to a even the most basic of investments would have netted you more money to work with. The fact that your money that you contributed has been gone for decades. Those of us who are going to be AROUND after 2035 have some pretty serious shit to figure out and "fuck you pay me" isn't going to work for us because there won't BE any money to pay. Their best idea as posted above is just pay more into it and remove the income cap. What a fucking joke, it’s like giving another credit card to someone who’s maxed out tons of others. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:12:44 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bat15: Do you really have the option of buying insurance or not? Lenders require full coverage on your house. The state requires liability coverage on your car. Lenders require coverage to protect their car loan. The federal government did require health insurance coverage but Trump removed the penalty. Sometimes society requires you to be financially responsible. It is part of the cost you pay to live in a civilized country. But I don’t want SS, I will provide my own retirement funds. That is great if people actually did that. Most won’t save enough and would wind up on welfare. Society is not going to let granny starve. It is better that people are part of the SS system and provide at least part of the money they will need in retirement. Beyond the fact that the government shouldn't be in the business of forcing people to save money, they've done such a shit job managing it, I'm struggling to understand why they should be continued to allow to do so. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:16:42 AM EDT
[#13]
It will not run out. They will just print more.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:17:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CoyoteGray: It will not run out. They will just print more. And inflation will get worse. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:20:12 AM EDT
[#15]
I know some people who whole they are disabled could work instead of taking from the system and doing nothing. The “I’m paralyzed I can’t work”, yes you can it will take awhile to find a job but there are those jobs out there for people like us. It’s an old argument with a general consensus that people who can no longer walk or use their hands are completely useless.
I had a tenant in a property that was on free rides from the Gov she was 100% capable of working a full time job, but chose to live on SSDI and welfare, cash assistance until she crossed a line. She destroyed the inside of a house and we sued her, she lost the lawsuit and all of her free gov assistance went with it. DES went after her, their investigation determined that she defrauded them for years. 🤦♀️ well no shyt most defraud the government programs because they think they’ll never get caught. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:24:34 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: And inflation will get worse. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By CoyoteGray: It will not run out. They will just print more. And inflation will get worse.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:28:19 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Beyond the fact that the government shouldn't be in the business of forcing people to save money, they've done such a shit job managing it, I'm struggling to understand why they should be continued to allow to do so. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By Bat15: Do you really have the option of buying insurance or not? Lenders require full coverage on your house. The state requires liability coverage on your car. Lenders require coverage to protect their car loan. The federal government did require health insurance coverage but Trump removed the penalty. Sometimes society requires you to be financially responsible. It is part of the cost you pay to live in a civilized country. But I don’t want SS, I will provide my own retirement funds. That is great if people actually did that. Most won’t save enough and would wind up on welfare. Society is not going to let granny starve. It is better that people are part of the SS system and provide at least part of the money they will need in retirement. Beyond the fact that the government shouldn't be in the business of forcing people to save money, they've done such a shit job managing it, I'm struggling to understand why they should be continued to allow to do so. I don’t have a problem forcing people to save for their retirement. Too many will not save and the government will force me to pay for their welfare. I believe welfare should only paid to the disabled and others incapable of supporting themselves. That does not include all those who think work is too hard or only for suckers. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:33:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sandbowl1980: It's been my observation since I've been on this forum that social security posts are disguised as nothing but boomer hate posts. I've never seen a post attacking medicaid. That our tax dollars are paid to those who've done absolutely nothing to earn it. Millions of illegal criminals who are getting free money, medical and free housing. But instead let's attack those that actually contributed to America instead. Plus if the federal government would stop using the social security funds as their private piggy bank it'd not be the topic of choice to use to create posts by sorry ass holes looking for a way to project their hatred to older Americans who actually did work and paid into the program. I also see a lot of BS of people saying I'll not take it when I get older. What I bunch of BS liars. You'll be just like everyone else and say I paid into it and I'm getting my money back. I've heard people say that before and guess what? They're drawing it now because now, their tone changed and they say it's my money. I paid into it. With all the other things that are corrupted in this nation. There are fools that post this crap with sole purpose of turning Americans against Americans. People that hate older Americans so much that they want to create a divide. I suggest you asshole call your boomer mother and wishing them a happy mother's day before taking them behind the shed and putting a bullet in them because you consider boomers to be a burden on society. Because that's the way it comes across when reading these sorry ass posts. These kinds of posts are nothing but hate post towards older boomer mothers, dads and grandparents. When the hatred should be towards the real thieves. The federal government for steal social security funding for their pet projects. the federal government's budget is always in a deficit, meaning its spending exceeds revenues from taxes and other sources. So who the real thieves and who should this post really be about. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sandbowl1980: It's been my observation since I've been on this forum that social security posts are disguised as nothing but boomer hate posts. I've never seen a post attacking medicaid. That our tax dollars are paid to those who've done absolutely nothing to earn it. Millions of illegal criminals who are getting free money, medical and free housing. But instead let's attack those that actually contributed to America instead. Plus if the federal government would stop using the social security funds as their private piggy bank it'd not be the topic of choice to use to create posts by sorry ass holes looking for a way to project their hatred to older Americans who actually did work and paid into the program. I also see a lot of BS of people saying I'll not take it when I get older. What I bunch of BS liars. You'll be just like everyone else and say I paid into it and I'm getting my money back. I've heard people say that before and guess what? They're drawing it now because now, their tone changed and they say it's my money. I paid into it. With all the other things that are corrupted in this nation. There are fools that post this crap with sole purpose of turning Americans against Americans. People that hate older Americans so much that they want to create a divide. I suggest you asshole call your boomer mother and wishing them a happy mother's day before taking them behind the shed and putting a bullet in them because you consider boomers to be a burden on society. Because that's the way it comes across when reading these sorry ass posts. These kinds of posts are nothing but hate post towards older boomer mothers, dads and grandparents. When the hatred should be towards the real thieves. The federal government for steal social security funding for their pet projects. Social Security is primarily funded through a dedicated payroll tax, which is deducted from a person's paycheck. The program also receives funding from income taxes that some beneficiaries have to pay on a portion of their benefits, as well as interest from the trust funds' investment holdings. Social Security income is deposited into two financial accounts called trust funds the Old-Age Survivors Insurance (OASI) Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance (DI) Trust Fund. The trust funds are used to pay out Social Security benefits and cover administrative costs, according to the Social Security Administration (SSA). The trust funds hold money that isn't needed in the current year to pay benefits and other expenses. By law, that money is invested in special Treasury bonds that are guaranteed by the U.S. government and earn interest, SSA explains. "Those bonds basically are an IOU from the government to Social Security," Mary Johnson, Social Security and Medicare policy analyst for The Senior Citizens League, told VERIFY. "In other words, the Social Security trust fund, which is what is authorized to pay benefits, has been loaning money to the U.S. government." When a person buys a Treasury bond, they are also loaning money to the U.S. government for a set period of time and will get it back in the future with interest. The Treasury needs to borrow money when the federal government's budget is in a deficit, meaning its spending exceeds revenues from taxes and other sources. the federal government's budget is always in a deficit, meaning its spending exceeds revenues from taxes and other sources. So who the real thieves and who should this post really be about. Did anyone mention that "SS" is two funds? Anyway, my second payout was deposited this week. I'm waiting on an answer to my protest about underpayment, about 1.2%; I don't care if it's a dollar short, I want the benefit I payed for under duress. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:36:42 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bat15: I don’t have a problem forcing people to save for their retirement. Too many will not save and the government will force me to pay for their welfare. I believe welfare should only paid to the disabled and others incapable of supporting themselves. That does not include all those who think work is too hard or only for suckers. Does everything the federal government touches turn to shit? |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:39:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Don't hate hate player hate the game and all that. Anyone opting to not collect Social Security with the opportunity to do so is foolish. Medicaid is already understood to be welfare and most here would put it on the chopping block the first chance they get. You have an actuary in this thread along with other financial folks who do this shit for a living and understand the horror that is social security. The fact that it cannot go on forever. The fact that every year it gets prolonged it gets more expensive. The fact that even putting the money you paid into SS being funneled to a even the most basic of investments would have netted you more money to work with. The fact that your money that you contributed has been gone for decades. Those of us who are going to be AROUND after 2035 have some pretty serious shit to figure out and "fuck you pay me" isn't going to work for us because there won't BE any money to pay.  |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:40:16 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sandbowl1980:  Ok. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:40:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By lokifox: The only hate I have is that if I was allowed to opt out of the Old Age portion I could have a giant pile of readily accessible money in retirement vs. being divvied out little chunks of my contributions. The probability of my receiving back the amount of my/employer contributions with projected growth if invested conservatively is extremely low. I would love an opt out option with tax credits for previous contributions but that'll never happen. The whole thing is burrowed so deep into the heart of the country that pulling it out would result in total chaos. I agree with you on this |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:43:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Ok. Most people have no interest in being part of the solution, only part of the problem. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:45:57 AM EDT
[#24]
160 billion in student loans sounds like a lot.
How does the President control that much of the budget? Nobody ever talks about the welfare programs running out of money. 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:46:44 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paul: 160 billion in student loans sounds like a lot. How does the President control that much of the budget? Nobody ever talks about the welfare programs running out of money. Everything the government touches turns to shit. Our goal should be getting them out of our lives as much as possible. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:50:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Martin O'Malley FUCKED Maryland as Govenor. Now, he will fuck everybody!
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:53:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paul_Sothern: I thought the boomers were rich. Lots of boomers have 401k accounts. There are hardworking and lazy people in all generations. You are chasing ghosts. A lot of boomers are already dead. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paul_Sothern: Originally Posted By manderson1911: I do, but honesty unlike boomers i spent my time learning how 401k and brokerage accounts work... I also know that if we are running out in the next decade either we are paying too much out or not enough in.... I thought the boomers were rich. Lots of boomers have 401k accounts. There are hardworking and lazy people in all generations. You are chasing ghosts. A lot of boomers are already dead. Pretty much this. The youngest boomers are 70 now. In another decade a large majority of them will be gone. GenX peeps need to get ready to take over the reins of shouldering the blame for all the ills of society. 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:09:20 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: I have the option of not buying the insurance or buying policies with lower coverage. What about government mandated Healthcare? Are we okay with that? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By Bat15: What happens to all your car insurance premiums if you never have a claim? Do you drive into a tree so you can file a claim? What happens to all your homeowners insurance premiums if you never have a claim. Do you burn your house down to collect! What happens to all your health insurance claims not used to pay for health care? Do you injure yourself so you can collect? If you have term life insurance. Do you kill yourself the day before the policy expires? Do you understand why people buy insurance? I have the option of not buying the insurance or buying policies with lower coverage. What about government mandated Healthcare? Are we okay with that? If an insurance company had reserves go to zero, they would be deemed insolvent and taken over by the state insurance commissioner. No new policies, those with policies left hanging. Seen it happen in the last decade. Multiple times. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:10:36 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FMJ3: Pretty much this. The youngest boomers are 70 now. In another decade a large majority of them will be gone. GenX peeps need to get ready to take over the reins of shouldering the blame for all the ills of society. Youngest boomers were born in 1964. The youngest boomers are 60 this year. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:11:54 AM EDT
[#30]
2035 my retirement year.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:14:49 AM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By eagarminuteman: Their best idea as posted above is just pay more into it and remove the income cap. What a fucking joke, it’s like giving another credit card to someone who’s maxed out tons of others. Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: And inflation will get worse. Originally Posted By FMJ3: Pretty much this. The youngest boomers are 70 now. In another decade a large majority of them will be gone. GenX peeps need to get ready to take over the reins of shouldering the blame for all the ills of society. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:16:34 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paul_Sothern: Forgive me for not knowing the difference between SS and SSDI as fortunately I have not been disabled so going on disability never entered my mind. So I looked it up. The average SSDI payment for someone with dependents is $2,720 per month. That is considerably higher than the average SS payment. No wonder they cannot fill hourly jobs when faking a disability pays so well. The way things are currently set up, only chumps work. /this IIRC during the Clinton administration the republicans pushed through welfare reform. In the two years following the number of people on SSI doubled IIRC. The goal now is to "get your disability" so you get SSI while getting paid under the table working. My neighbor in CA was on Section 8 so she paid $230 for the $2300 rent. She got SSI for the kids because they were fatherless. Her "husband" of 8 years was on SSI and worked cash jobs under the table. I learned all about his life at his sentencing hearing following his felony conviction. I figure all told they were at $10K a month in assistance. .... and California isn't the worst |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:25:31 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FMJ3: The youngest boomers are 70 now. 59 The youngest boomers are 59. The oldest are 78. "Boomer" short for "baby Boom" which happened after WW2 ended. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 12:32:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Paul: /this IIRC during the Clinton administration the republicans pushed through welfare reform. In the two years following the number of people on SSI doubled IIRC. The goal now is to "get your disability" so you get SSI while getting paid under the table working. My neighbor in CA was on Section 8 so she paid $230 for the $2300 rent. She got SSI for the kids because they were fatherless. Her "husband" of 8 years was on SSI and worked cash jobs under the table. I learned all about his life at his sentencing hearing following his felony conviction. I figure all told they were at $10K a month in assistance. .... and California isn't the worst Are you having a laugh, mate? Got to be fookin' kidding me. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 12:35:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exponentialpi: Whats funny is he is pointing out situations where most people don’t file a claim. Yet everyone is just counting the days until they can file for SS. So they can get what they paid in, plus interest. If an insurance company had reserves go to zero, they would be deemed insolvent and taken over by the state insurance commissioner. No new policies, those with policies left hanging. Seen it happen in the last decade. Multiple times. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By exponentialpi: Originally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By Bat15: What happens to all your car insurance premiums if you never have a claim? Do you drive into a tree so you can file a claim? What happens to all your homeowners insurance premiums if you never have a claim. Do you burn your house down to collect! What happens to all your health insurance claims not used to pay for health care? Do you injure yourself so you can collect? If you have term life insurance. Do you kill yourself the day before the policy expires? Do you understand why people buy insurance? I have the option of not buying the insurance or buying policies with lower coverage. What about government mandated Healthcare? Are we okay with that? If an insurance company had reserves go to zero, they would be deemed insolvent and taken over by the state insurance commissioner. No new policies, those with policies left hanging. Seen it happen in the last decade. Multiple times. I was being asked what happens to the money paid into SS by people who die before collecting. The answer is the answer is the same as with other insurance. If you don’t have a covered claim, the money goes to others. People buy insurance to protect themselves selves or their loved ones against something. Life insurance protects your family against financial loss because of your death. Buying an annuity policy provides you with a stream of income for a period of time. It could be your lifetime and that of your spouse which is how SS works. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 12:41:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bat15: I was being asked what happens to the money paid into SS by people who die before collecting. The answer is the answer is the same as with other insurance. If you don’t have a covered claim, the money goes to others. People buy insurance to protect themselves selves or their loved ones against something. Life insurance protects your family against financial loss because of your death. Buying an annuity policy provides you with a stream of income for a period of time. It could be your lifetime and that of your spouse which is how SS works. Every annuity has return of premium and can be 1035'd into another type. Hell you can EVEN do income with cash refund. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 12:51:56 PM EDT
[#37]
the general fund of the US govt runs out of money every fucking year and it doesnt seem to slow them down at all
this is all a joke and anybody that thinks it matters what the SS trust fund amount is hasn't been paying attention this is all a smoke screen and a divide and conquer like everything else the govt does |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 1:50:31 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Does everything the federal government touches turn to shit? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By Bat15: I don’t have a problem forcing people to save for their retirement. Too many will not save and the government will force me to pay for their welfare. I believe welfare should only paid to the disabled and others incapable of supporting themselves. That does not include all those who think work is too hard or only for suckers. Does everything the federal government touches turn to shit? Well I am kinda in agreement with Bat15 that I don't have a problem with the Gov saying you need to save for retirement. I do have an EXTREME problem with the Gov handling my retirement money. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 1:55:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Scoobysmak]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FMJ3: Pretty much this. The youngest boomers are 70 now. In another decade a large majority of them will be gone. GenX peeps need to get ready to take over the reins of shouldering the blame for all the ills of society. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FMJ3: Originally Posted By Paul_Sothern: Originally Posted By manderson1911: I do, but honesty unlike boomers i spent my time learning how 401k and brokerage accounts work... I also know that if we are running out in the next decade either we are paying too much out or not enough in.... I thought the boomers were rich. Lots of boomers have 401k accounts. There are hardworking and lazy people in all generations. You are chasing ghosts. A lot of boomers are already dead. Pretty much this. The youngest boomers are 70 now. In another decade a large majority of them will be gone. GenX peeps need to get ready to take over the reins of shouldering the blame for all the ills of society. We are outnumbered by a long shot....in 2022 both boomers and millennials outnumbered us....not sure if this is a good or bad thing at this point....I can't control what happens but at the same time not going to take the blame for it either. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:26:29 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scoobysmak: Well I am kinda in agreement with Bat15 that I don't have a problem with the Gov saying you need to save for retirement. I do have an EXTREME problem with the Gov handling my retirement money. Ok what if you don't pay taxes on the first 12.4% of your income if it goes towards a retirement account? |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:33:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Ok what if you don't pay taxes on the first 12.4% of your income if it goes towards a retirement account? Is this this a Roth account or traditional, if traditional it is the same principle as now and people still don't use it. Roth might change the game but doubtful as the average person can't see the forest through the trees. I would be willing to bet on the Roth option though...like Bat15 said, I just don't want my tax payer dollars to put these people in nursing homes when they can't work anymore because they never saved a dime. How about if you have X amount saved before you need the nursing home you will be helped but otherwise go eat cat food. I don't have an answer but all the Karen's crying their neighbors grandma is on the street would force me to pay for it over time. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:37:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pdm]
[#42]
The only real question that needs to be answered is how much ammo will my SS check buy in 2035? Right now I'm getting about 9 cases of 9mm per month. Will the COLA adjustments keep pace with the increases in ammo?
If not then I whole heartedly recommend that FICA be raised on the young guys still working so I can keep shooting. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:40:19 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pdm: The only real question that needs to be answered is how much ammo will my SS check buy in 2035? Right now I'm getting about 9 cases of 9mm per month. Will the COLA adjustments keep pace with the increases in ammo? Gov reading this....and the inbound letter.... "We are sorry to inform you that the freedoms provided by the Constitution are not part of our agenda and your SS check has been forfeited for diversity, thank you for playing" |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:01:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scoobysmak: Is this this a Roth account or traditional, if traditional it is the same principle as now and people still don't use it. Roth might change the game but doubtful as the average person can't see the forest through the trees. I would be willing to bet on the Roth option though...like Bat15 said, I just don't want my tax payer dollars to put these people in nursing homes when they can't work anymore because they never saved a dime. How about if you have X amount saved before you need the nursing home you will be helped but otherwise go eat cat food. I don't have an answer but all the Karen's crying their neighbors grandma is on the street would force me to pay for it over time. Roth. Let me ask you this. How much of YOUR income are you willing to pay to keep everyone else's grandma off the street? |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:02:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Every annuity has return of premium and can be 1035'd into another type. Hell you can EVEN do income with cash refund. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By Bat15: I was being asked what happens to the money paid into SS by people who die before collecting. The answer is the answer is the same as with other insurance. If you don’t have a covered claim, the money goes to others. People buy insurance to protect themselves selves or their loved ones against something. Life insurance protects your family against financial loss because of your death. Buying an annuity policy provides you with a stream of income for a period of time. It could be your lifetime and that of your spouse which is how SS works. Every annuity has return of premium and can be 1035'd into another type. Hell you can EVEN do income with cash refund. I know they offer different options. One of the options is life which usually gives you the highest monthly payment. If you die after one payment, your family gets nothing. Why would anyone do that? It is stupid but someone must take it. SS at least will pay a spouse the higher benefit. It maybe my age but I generally expect the man to be the higher earner and the wife to live longer. It probably is not as true today but that is what commonly happened in the 20th century. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:32:18 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Roth. Let me ask you this. How much of YOUR income are you willing to pay to keep everyone else's grandma off the street? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Notcalifornialegal: Originally Posted By Scoobysmak: Is this this a Roth account or traditional, if traditional it is the same principle as now and people still don't use it. Roth might change the game but doubtful as the average person can't see the forest through the trees. I would be willing to bet on the Roth option though...like Bat15 said, I just don't want my tax payer dollars to put these people in nursing homes when they can't work anymore because they never saved a dime. How about if you have X amount saved before you need the nursing home you will be helped but otherwise go eat cat food. I don't have an answer but all the Karen's crying their neighbors grandma is on the street would force me to pay for it over time. Roth. Let me ask you this. How much of YOUR income are you willing to pay to keep everyone else's grandma off the street? Call me a selfish prick but None, because in this case one becomes 87 million overnight. Which is why if grandma had to have X amount in a retirement account she would have to raid that first before coming to me for handouts via the Gov. If the Gov "strongly encourages" people to save for retirement Vs letting people do as they will....which outcome will least likely result in the Gov coming to me for money at the end of their life? |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:35:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Originally Posted By 1975: It comes after the Social Security Administration announced earlier this week it is expected to run short on funds by 2035. Yeah, whatever. They wouldn't risk losing control of the government. Fear mongering just like everything else. What we need is a shortage of bullshit. |
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SK, CAN
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:47:28 PM EDT
[#48]
SS, disability, SNAP, Medicaid, EITC, tax “refunds” not earned, and anything other than a food box and WIC should be eliminated.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:48:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dixie2009: SS, disability, SNAP, Medicaid, EITC, tax “refunds” not earned, and anything other than a food box and WIC should be eliminated. Bring back Gov cheese.... |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:56:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Scoobysmak: Bring back Gov cheese.... and i liked it.
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