User Panel
Posted: 11/19/2023 8:57:50 PM EDT
Our department is finally re-issuing shotguns. After we got rifles, shotguns went bye bye. After hassling my chief for years, he has finally let me get new shotguns.
I’d like to get up to date, and I’m leaning towards the new beretta a300 patrol. I fully understand the capabilities and limitations of both punks and semis. Has anyone switched to semi-auto? What’s your experience? |
|
|
[#1]
We have had Benelli M1 Super 90s for over 25 years with no issues.
|
|
|
[Last Edit: kels]
[#2]
Beretta 1301s are very nice
They also shoot very fast I have big hands, so the pistol grip was not my favorite add on Being a dinosaur I personally would rather have my old Remington 870 police magnum or Even the Winchester 1300 riot gun (American made version, not current Turkish ones) |
|
|
[#3]
We issue pumps but can carry whatever
There’s not really a down side to semi autos. Actually easier to train people to operate in my experience at an agency level Beretta A300 is a great choice. I’ve been hauling one around, it’s loaded with breaching slugs, it cycles and shoots them great. It will breach doors and meat |
|
|
[#4]
“Get up to date” and shotguns doesn’t vibe.
|
|
|
[#5]
|
|
|
[#6]
20ish years ago our dept got the idea that we would issue Benelli M1Super 90's and pull the 870's and make them less lethal guns. They only bought maybe 50-60 M1S90s before scrapping the less lethal idea. They kept the M1S90s in service along with the 870's, as well as a patrol rifle program.
Now within the last few years the range staff has become more progressive, and there's talk of getting rid of all the 870s and replacing them with Beretta 1301 or A300's. If it goes through I imagine they will pull the M1S90s as well, Id imagine there are probably only 30 ish out on the street still. They haven't ran a benelli class in over a decade, if someone with on retires/turns it in they don't get issued out again. I think itd be a good move, the 870 I was issued at first was from 1978. Had to turn it in when i got a rifle, but if i could carry both I would. |
|
|
[#7]
We have Remington 870s here at my current agency but when I was a deputy we could carry just about anything. Myself and others used the Mossberg 930 SPX and that was awesome in shotgun school.
|
|
All politicians are evil, but some politicians are more evil than others.
|
[#8]
i would have zero issues with my beretta 1301 absolutely wonderful shotgun, patterns very tight with flight control rounds and runs low brass birdshot without issue
|
|
|
[#9]
I would say if you want shotguns to be relevant, make sure to train everyone in shotgun breaching, and have good breaching ammo available. Useful in active shooter situations and such.
Shotguns will remain a good tool for that reason alone if nothing else. |
|
2021 can’t come soon enough!
Edit- well maybe 2020 wasn’t so bad after all..... |
[#10]
My Dept. issues 870s to patrol guys that want to carry one… many do not these days.
A lot of our 870s have been converted to Less Lethal by adding orange furniture. Policy specifically restricts the carrying or use of LL rounds in a standard shotgun and OO buck in LL guns to avoid confusion I’m one of the T&E guys for equipment and began carrying a personal 14” Benelli M4 on duty 5-6 years ago I also own the 1301 and A300 Patrol. For work the 14” barrel has advantages. I work a plainclothes unit that tracks and apprehends suspects for Homicide primarily though we get requests for other violent cases 3 years ago I was involved in my second fatal OIS and employed the Benelli during that incident. The issued load for my Dept. is the Federal FC LE133 OO buck. Obviously shotguns have their strengths and limitations but at typical LE engagement distances they are decisive. We also authorize patrol rifles and I carry a personal 11.5 Frequency of training is key in my opinion with any weapon system but shotgun especially so. The modern semi auto guns have a couple of significant advantages over the pump guns in my opinion now that we have reliable options. When I began my LE career 30 years ago that was not the case. I had the opportunity to train with Louis Awerbuck around 1995 and his shotgun course was challenging. It drilled home the capability and limitations offered by the 870. I’m sure if he was alive today he would be happy to see the modernization of the systems. Attached File |
|
Speed, Surprise, Violence of Action
|
[#11]
As a side question.... I often see the north hollywood shootout as justification for better pistol rounds and dropping shotguns in exchange for rifles. I have to wonder though how it would have turned out if a couple of the shotgun armed officers had slugs available to them. I don't know much about policing and am not an armor/ballistics expert, but im not sure their armor would have stopped slugs.
Just a random thought I suppose. |
|
|
[#12]
Originally Posted By darkpaladin1: As a side question.... I often see the north hollywood shootout as justification for better pistol rounds and dropping shotguns in exchange for rifles. I have to wonder though how it would have turned out if a couple of the shotgun armed officers had slugs available to them. I don't know much about policing and am not an armor/ballistics expert, but im not sure their armor would have stopped slugs. Just a random thought I suppose. View Quote In 2009 we had three officer killed by a pos wearing a level 2 vest. We only had shotguns with 00buck, no slugs and no rifles. Our firearm guys took our vests and shot em with federal's low recoil tru ball slugs. All the slugs defeated the front of the vest and were caught in the back panel. When the slugs struck the trama plates, all of the slugs penetrated the plates, but were caught by the kevlar. After the testing, the powers that be blessed us with slugs and rifles. Too bad our shotguns are now nerf guns. |
|
|
[#13]
Originally Posted By MONGO45: My Dept. issues 870s to patrol guys that want to carry one… many do not these days. A lot of our 870s have been converted to Less Lethal by adding orange furniture. Policy specifically restricts the carrying or use of LL rounds in a standard shotgun and OO buck in LL guns to avoid confusion I’m one of the T&E guys for equipment and began carrying a personal 14” Benelli M4 on duty 5-6 years ago I also own the 1301 and A300 Patrol. For work the 14” barrel has advantages. I work a plainclothes unit that tracks and apprehends suspects for Homicide primarily though we get requests for other violent cases 3 years ago I was involved in my second fatal OIS and employed the Benelli during that incident. The issued load for my Dept. is the Federal FC LE133 OO buck. Obviously shotguns have their strengths and limitations but at typical LE engagement distances they are decisive. We also authorize patrol rifles and I carry a personal 11.5 Frequency of training is key in my opinion with any weapon system but shotgun especially so. The modern semi auto guns have a couple of significant advantages over the pump guns in my opinion now that we have reliable options. When I began my LE career 30 years ago that was not the case. I had the opportunity to train with Louis Awerbuck around 1995 and his shotgun course was challenging. It drilled home the capability and limitations offered by the 870. I’m sure if he was alive today he would be happy to see the modernization of the systems. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/86935/IMG_4847_jpeg-3227019.JPG View Quote Federal FC LE133 OO buck is nasty stuff. Everyone I’ve seen hit with it was done after the first round. I wish I could have trained with Louis Awerbuck. He was a surgeon with the shotgun. |
|
|
[Last Edit: COCKEDANDGLOCKED]
[#14]
SEE BELOW
|
|
|
[Last Edit: COCKEDANDGLOCKED]
[#15]
Department has issued 14" Benelli M1 and M2 Super 90s for 25 years. Never an issue. Training is important and we did carry 00 buck and slugs. Most opt to carry 2 M4s when working a 2 man car. But the 1 man cars load an M4 and Benelli. Great guns. We had range Benellis with 40,000 plus rounds thru them and still chugging.
|
|
|
[#16]
We still rock the shorty 590A1 in addition to an issued rifle. It eats anything you feed it and just plain works. Folks want to poo-poo shotguns as outdated, but when you see what a 1oz slug can do, there is no comparison to any issue rifle round. If you deal with any bears out your way, slugs will absolutely get their attention and be much more effective than a rifle round. I teach my guys to hit steel @100yds, even though quals only go to 40yds, with them and most do with little to no problems so accuracy isn't an issue. The fun part is when that slug slams into the steel so hard it knocks it off the hanger once in a while, it's smiles all around.
I think Lawmen's still has the state contract on Mossberg so give them a shout if your project makes it that far. |
|
|
[#17]
|
|
|
[Last Edit: 10-8DoWork]
[#18]
We've had a few semi guns (M2/M3) and they are fine but I really think shotguns are a thing of the past for patrol and swat.
Pretty sure the only shotguns still on the road with us are pump action ones dedicated to less lethal. |
|
|
[#19]
Originally Posted By 10-8DoWork: We've had a few semi guns (M2/M3) and they are fine but I really think shotguns are a thing of the past for patrol and swat. Pretty sure the only shotguns still on the road with us are pump action ones dedicated to less lethal. View Quote I love the shotgun. I am a die hard 870 guy, and think they are the ultimate in patrol shotgun evolution. I can run the hell out of one, and often use my sills to impress the new kids. I cannot think of one single scenario where I would grab a shotgun of any kind for any reason over a carbine. |
|
|
[#20]
Originally Posted By shindawia6: In 2009 we had three officer killed by a pos wearing a level 2 vest. We only had shotguns with 00buck, no slugs and no rifles. Our firearm guys took our vests and shot em with federal's low recoil tru ball slugs. All the slugs defeated the front of the vest and were caught in the back panel. When the slugs struck the trama plates, all of the slugs penetrated the plates, but were caught by the kevlar. After the testing, the powers that be blessed us with slugs and rifles. Too bad our shotguns are now nerf guns. View Quote Is shooting for the pelvic girdle, knees, or face offlimits? |
|
What we lost in the fire, we found in the ashes.
|
[#21]
|
|
|
[#22]
Originally Posted By JerseyRaised: Our department is finally re-issuing shotguns. After we got rifles, shotguns went bye bye. After hassling my chief for years, he has finally let me get new shotguns. I’d like to get up to date, and I’m leaning towards the new beretta a300 patrol. I fully understand the capabilities and limitations of both punks and semis. Has anyone switched to semi-auto? What’s your experience? View Quote Just curious, why are you advocating the return/usage of shotguns on patrol? Genuinely curious! Thanks |
|
|
[Last Edit: kels]
[#23]
Remington 870s have a reputation
for being ALMOST police proof Yes I’m a fan We got Beretta 1301s right before I retired Fantastic gun, but I really didn’t see the need and I’m the firearms instructor If we got out with a long gun it was a m4 In my 17 years with this sheriffs office I fired less than 500 rounds TOTAL thru My issued Winchester 1300 |
|
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.