When you order your Indiana Jones from Wish.

Mom! I want Indiana Jones!

No son, we have Indiana Jones at home.

I'm an hour into it. That dude is trying but he's getting his ass torn up by Graham.

Great thread title.

Cringe dork fight. Just unwatchable

Lol awesome.  i'm just getting done with Indiana Jones' 10 minute intro and the guy def. sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

I started this while doing some running around. It certainly doesn’t deserve a thread

Interesting, cause I'm seeing just the opposite.

How does knowing more about human cultural development help us?

Might explain why you troll so much, but I doubt it.

Been watching.  Honestly, both are showing their ass.

Graham's entire point is that it's POSSIBLE that a civilization existed and that Archeologists aren't open to any ideas that didn't come from them.  However he is just using this interview to assassinate the other guy's credibility. Really lacking in the evidentiary department.

Diet Indiana is a world class D Bag.  Smirky and condescending.  His arguments boil down to "That can't be possible because we say it can't" or "That's not what that is because we haven't identified it as such".  Yeah,  that's kind of the other guy's entire point. He seems to be a stereotypical "I have it all figured out because of my education" Academic type.  

The fact that he tried to associate Graham with racists, Nazis, antisemites, white supremacists etc. really shows his character.  Also lends credibility to Graham's point.



On a scale of "fuck that guy" to "I'd hang out with him", Graham is winning big time.  Flint may be on of the most unlikeable people I've ever listened to.  Neither are very convincing of their sides of the argument.


ETA:  What is up with Flint's hands?  He looks like the guy from the Burger King commercials.

After the nukes fly the knowledge to build stone tools will be useful.

I started listening yesterday while out in the garden and Flint Dibble is a tool bag. He purposely obfuscates Graham’s claims about a pre-flood civilization.

The YD impact hypothesis is pretty interesting and I’m not sure how much of any civilization would be left after an event like that, especially after 12,000 years.

There’s lots of interesting inconsistencies or coincidences when we try to rewind the clock that far back. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You don't know until you do know.

Peak Joe Rogan has been attained   Thanks Joe

This kid is knowledgeable and obviously does good work, but knowing he co-authored a letter to Netflix to insinuate that Graham is a racist misogynist disqualifies him from being taken seriously.  He got butthurt so badly that he had to write a letter and pulled out all the woke buzzwords.  Listening to him try to defend his letter and tweets is the best part of the whole podcast.

I just hear Todd.

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Been listening while at work. Flint is a top tier fag.

Like a gayer clone of Adam ruins everything. Joe should feel bad for putting Graham through that retards colostomy bag of archaeological experienth

Started it today on my 3 hour drive back from a jobsite.

I'm still siding with Graham and I'd love if the other archaeologist would at least work with him on some of this stuff.

I didn't know Diet Indiana Jones was the one behind the article saying Grahm's theories were based on white supremacy. That's about when I got home so have to start it up again next week.

Accurate.  I'm 2 hours in now and your post sums it up nicely.  

I admire Graham for going against the narrative but he needs to produce some better evidence because from what I've heard so far, everything seems like it can pretty much be explained or disproved relatively easily.  and yeah, Indiana Jones is a mega basement dweller... hasn't sniffed pussy since he was born.

On team Graham for some time now.

I stopped listening after the tenth time he said “My Daaaddd”” in his whiny ass voice.

Spent some time on Hancock's site yesterday, the guy makes some pretty compelling arguments.

Back in 2022 a whole lotta hand-wringing DEI university weenies teamed up and sent a karen letter to Netflix demanding the re-categorize Graham's show as "science fiction", lol.

Old school professors get pretty whiney when new evidence shows up showing that they're wrong and have clinging to and spewing bullshit their whole life.

And it's not just archaeology. But that's currently a hotspot for the DEI-all-white-people-are-raciss libtards, they've been actively asking some archaeologists to self-censor their work as there is a growing amount of evidence that's starting to disprove the idea that all hominid life started in Africa, and that mankind actually has sub-species that started in different places in the world.

They about lost their shit entirely when they found a fossil in Europe that pre-dated "Lucy" by almost 500,000 years.

Been pretty obvious to most observers for a long time, that African, Caucasian, and Asian folk are quite a bit different in many respects, don't know why that is somehow "racist". We're just different, that's all, and isn't that what "diversity" is all about?

That was a brutal slog.   I even took a restless nap leaving it playing in the backround. (Very much, Not recommended).    

Smarmy millennial Jones, has one main contention:  He has found no Seeds demonstrating the use of domesticated crops prior to 12600 years ago.   (Therefore Graham’s lost civilization could not have existed)

Also, Hipster Jones and associates, tried to cancel Graham off Netflix, by calling him Racist, Misogynistic, White Supremest, Anti-Semetic etc.  
but his Tiny Hands were the most disturbing part.   Why was he covering his wrists like that?     It almost makes me want to join his twitter and ask him.    .   Alien or Birth Defect: You decide.  

It helps put into perspective the human devolution we are witnessing in Our time.

So Flint sounds woke AF and is letting that virus block his mind from even looking into things that his dad hasn't done.

When ever Flint started talking about shit on the shelf in the GOM that's when I knew he was full of shit and didn't know fuck all about GOM conti shelf or even ancient alluvial plain archeology.

Flint has no fucking idea or fucking clue about the norther GOM

Right here in my back yard there was a huge wooden city built by Phillipinos....all above the water. They lived and worked there dealing with seafood. It's fucking gone. not a single trace. not even 100 years old. Same for the Krantz hotel, same for the sugar mill on grand terre.

Hurricanes and wave action when dealing with sand and a place that has ZERO bed rock...shit just fucking dissappears.

Also...this dude doesn't realize that people have and always will live, RIGHT ON THE FUCKING WATER. He keeps talking about shit miles inland from ancient coast lines. BRo....the shit is literally on the water line.

I'm the last person to side with academic institutions and the prevailing narrative on almost any subject these days, but I have to admit, Flint may have ended Graham's career with this debate.

Graham constantly acts like compelling evidence for his theories is right in front of our eyes, but when asked for it by someone in his field, there's nothing except 'well, it hasn't been found yet because someone hasn't discovered it yet.' 'Oh, and here's some photos of underwater rocks my wife and I took.'

Sorry, no. By this measure, he might as well lay claim to mermaids or sea monsters. After all, we haven't explored the entire ocean, right? Someone might still find them. Any day now, guys.  

Then he claims that mainstream archeologists are mean to him. Boo hoo. Produce some actual evidence and they might ease up.

Granted, Flint did absolutely try to associate Graham with racists, and then denied he did so, but it still doesn't change the fact that Graham was given every opportunity in four-plus hours to produce some real evidence to a sort-of colleague and came with nothing even remotely interesting, much less compelling.

I think you may have misunderstood his point on this, he is saying that the artifacts and sites found underwater (within 1-2 miles of the coast due to water level risings predicated over time) match artifacts found farther inland and the activity suggest that they moved/traveled/traded from the coast inwards.  If this is the case basically everywhere they have found such activity, why have they not found artifacts from this ancient "industrial age" society that Grahm is suggesting lives.

Overall, the two individuals are approaching the past from two very different philosophies, one more based in evidence/fact, the other in drawing conclusions w/o much evidence to back it up.

I listened to an hour or 2 of this in the car yesterday.  My biggest issue, whether this debate or just in general, is when did the absence of evidence become evidence of absence regarding the scientific method?

I absolutely understand the archeologist's repeated point: "None of the evidence we have found to date supports the existence of X in this time period."  That doesn't definitively prove anything, however it certainly leads to having greater confidence that X didn't exist in this period.

Yet how many examples do we have of a lack of evidence and high confidence in theories being thrown not only into question, but absolutely and definitively shown to be false when new evidence is discovered?  That's the entire purpose of the scientific method.  For example, the "Clovis First" idea.  When all the evidence we had was that the Clovis culture was the first culture in the America's, there was a high level of confidence that they were the first.  Then, numerous other sites predating Clovis were discovered, and our understanding should change with it.  This goes for practically ever scientific advancement ever made.  Every scientist in existence when TNT was invented, when asked if they thought we could use the TNT to smoosh a magic rock and generate 1,000 times the explosive force would have said "that's real retarded sir" until we had evidence of how mass and energy are related.  

Second issue: this idea that it's completely absurd to this archeologist in particular, but this seems to be a common belief across multiple academic/scientific disciplines, that anyone would try to repress new information and new understanding, because they're all driven by finding new information so will welcome it.  This is profoundly nonsensical since this dynamic exists in every single human institution ever created since homo sapiens learned to communicate.  Whether it's "the boomer" at work who doesn't want to hear a millennial's idea about how to leverage social media for marketing purposes or fathers who never treat their sons as actualized adults, it's such a common occurrence for the old guard to become entrenched in their ways that they eschew anything that threatens what they "know" that it shows up as either a main plot or a sub plot of practically every fictional work we've ever created.  Not to say it's a conspiracy - it's simply human nature.

We have the same problem in physics, with Weinstein holding a relatively similar position though rather than promoting his own hypothesis he's instead simply calling out how new thoughts are crushed by the current entrenchment of thought.  There are probably thousands of other examples of this in every subject conceivable.

Like any social issue, we can't address it if we pretend it doesn't exist.

I don't for a second believe we're missing some space age Atlantian culture that was nuclear powered and a hairs breadth away from intergalactic travel before they got hit by a big rock, but I also think it's entirely plausible that we've yet to uncover evidence of a culture with 12th century ship building and navigational ability and limited agriculture that existed in a time where we currently think all of humanity existing were hunter gatherers.  And I think there's enough indicators (not actual evidence, but snippets of) to make investigating such a possibility worthwhile.

Last, I've yet to hear a single explanation for the DNA oddities that imply significant relationship between Australian Aboriginals and the (currently) earliest peoples in South America, or a number of other DNA oddities that seem to throw the current understanding into question.  We treat DNA as infallible concrete evidence with such confidence we will put people to death over it, yet have no ideas how DNA got from Australia to South America?

When the scientists themselves talk past each other and refuse to acknowledge the very basis of scientific method, it's no wonder the average person begins to think "Pluto is still a planet" or "Are eggs good or bad for us today?" and give up on the entire premise of new evidence altering previous understanding.  Although more blame for this rests on journalists than anything, since they take it 6 steps further with absurdly simplistic concrete claims almost completely divorced from the actualities of the discoveries in question.

Graham has never suggested there was an ancient "industrial age" society.  That's just one of many ways people misrepresent his work.  "Ancient advanced civilization" doesn't mean they were on par with our current technology, it simply means they weren't basic hunter-gatherers.

He has said they had a deep understanding of the solar system, were seafaring/knew how to navigate, had an agricultural society, and they were able to work with megalithic stones.

Thanks for that. I wasn't investing hours and didn't know who those people are.

Not when you do it that way it's not.

There's more credence for the "we're all different species/sub-species" theory than "we all came from one vagina" theory, whether that's from Africa or Eve.

He has said a few things about it.

From an interview which I think Flint is referencing.

https://www.dailygrail.com/2019/04/watch-graham-hancock-discuss-his-new-book-america-before/

"I think we’re talking about a civilization – more than 12,000 years ago – which was as advanced as our civilization was, say in the late 18th century or early 19th century. In other words, they could navigate the world, they could explore the world, they could measure the world accurately, they had precise astronomy, they could create beautiful maps that were accurate in terms of latitude and longitude. That kind of level of civilization."


From his book America Before on page 442.

Though in no way “high-tech” in twenty-first-century terms, the Clovis
toolkit is far superior to anything else Native Americans are thought to have
been capable of 13,400 years ago when the first fluted points begin to appear
south of the ice cap. I’m not proposing that these stone tools were part of the
technology of the lost civilization itself—any more than jet aircraft were part
of it. I’ve argued already that a more realistic parallel for the level of science
and technology attained would be with Europe and the newly formed United
States in the late eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries.


He isn't really careful with his words, so you could end up with a positive or negative depending on what you read.

Team Graham here. Dribbles a prick.

He's suggested such, as referenced in that video which is why I brought it up. However, replace my "Industrial Age" with "Ancient advanced civilization" and it doesn't really change the outcome, they haven't found evidence of either.  This was additionally addressed with the shipwrecks, they have found thousands of shipwrecks and haven't found one older than what's referenced in the video mentioned. It seems that Graham addresses both points by saying "Well, we just haven't found it YET".

Cool, we haven't found any evidence suggesting that Graham's theory is accurate or founded and he confirms in that video that they haven't found evidence confirming such. The video really comes off like him trying to defend his lifeworks from valid points addressing his wild suppositions, and he spends more time addressing the attacks against him from actual Archeologists than actually trying to prove his theories which falls in line with his self-admitted contrarian attitude, which is a bit ironic considering Graham has probably had more platforms, media attention and social clout than dribble EVER has had, yet he poses himself as some sort of victim to "big archeology".

One of them has a had numerous books, shows, docu-series and media appearances that even I (who never seeks this type of information out) am aware of.  The other I didn't even know existed until this thread was posted.  Admittedly, Graham's is more entertaining and therefore it's likely why he gets the attention.

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If you want to see some very interesting discoveries that show some ancients had to have some sort of advanced technology other than bronze chisels look at this.

Hancock is laughably wrong.
He should change his name to Graham Cock.

Dammit, at least use his full name.

Indiana Dribbles.