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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:06:32 PM EDT
RDS are gaining popularity on Carry Pistols.
A lot of people may not get one and just use iron sights due to cost or the need to practice with it. Some people dispute that a RDS is better than iron sights. Have you ignored the science? Is it wrong and iron sights are better than a RDS for carry? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:10:06 PM EDT
[#1]
my opinion : do what you think is best i don't care either way train |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:10:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Irons will be left in the past.
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NM, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:11:48 PM EDT
[#3]
I have a 22/45, a gen 3 19, and a .40 2011 Limited division gun that don't have a dot.
Everything else does, including my carry gun. I should get a cheap dot on my 22/45. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:12:12 PM EDT
[#4]
My EDC is an M1911a1, .45. I have been using one since MY 1977.
At close range I am using point/reflex shooting. At medium range I am good with the iron sights. At long range I am using tactical movement to get a rifle |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:12:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tct1000]
[#5]
irons are dated tech, old man. they can rust, corrode, tarnish, and oxidize. that's why I use the stock plastic Glock sights
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:15:26 PM EDT
[#6]
I just haven't practiced with dots enough. I've got lots of hours behind irons though.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:17:39 PM EDT
[#7]
I’ve tried a few RDS pistols that belong to friends and I’ve been telling myself for a while that I needed to give one a try. Thought about buying an RDS upper for my G17, but saw a ‘daily deal’ for a complete Dagger compact that was almost the same price.
This week I picked up the PSA Dagger compact I ordered from PSA, along with a Holosun 507. Trying a few holsters out, definitely feels different. Upon drawing and presenting the gun, I’m not yet aligning with the sight the way I do with iron sights. I’m looking ‘over’ the reticle, if that makes sense. I’m looking through the optic but I end up having to raise the muzzle about 1/4” to bring the reticle into view. My EDC has been a Glock 19 gen 3 for years, but I’m noticing a definite difference in the Dagger’s grip and I really like it. Gonna set up and do some drills this weekend to see how it compares with my iron sight Glock. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:18:20 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tct1000: irons are dated tech, old man. they can rust, corrode, tarnish, and oxidize. that's why I use the stock plastic Glock sights The future is now  Also we've done this thread probably 20 times and nobody is convincing anybody either way. I'm sure the usual suspects will be here shortly. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:20:49 PM EDT
[#9]
I carry a RDS at work on both pistols. I do not religiously carry one off work. I do believe they bring some real benefits to the table I do not believe they are a fix or some type of talisman that will make a shitty shooter a GM.
Bottom line select what you will use train with it like your life and the lives of those you care about depends on it because it very well may. Extremely unlikely I’ll be at your gunfight or you at mine. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:24:15 PM EDT
[#10]
Except for very small pocket, ankle or deep concealment guns, put optics on everything.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:24:40 PM EDT
[#11]
I’ve struggled to adjust to carrying a pistol with RDS, it’s just not comfortable for me & I’m always having to tug at it. For me the RDS makes little difference in sub 10-12 yard shots, but I do shoot more accurately at medium to long pistol ranges with one.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:28:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Scroll down to the videos by Stoeger.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/-/5-2720843/?page=1&anc=108806768#i108806768 |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:31:17 PM EDT
[#13]
I tried it for a while and decided it wasn't for me. Perhaps I'll revisit it sometime in the future...
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:40:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Until recently they have just been on range toys for me. Wife has had one on her Sig for several years and it works for her. I recently bought a M&P 2.0 from PSA that had one and i liked it. Liked it enough I just slapped one on my VP9-OR. I haven’t had a chance to take it to the range yet so we shall see. Irons are absolutely instinctive for me at this point but I think low light and maybe while in my truck the RDS may shine. I kind of hope I don’t like it to much for a carry piece as that would mean a lot of expense the fit the other sidearms I have in rotation
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:46:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tallahasseezz: The future is now Also we've done this thread probably 20 times and nobody is convincing anybody either way. I'm sure the usual suspects will be here shortly. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:48:51 PM EDT
[#16]
I tried a rds on a G21 but just prefer irons.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:52:11 PM EDT
[#17]
RDS on my CCW
Night sights on my deep concealment gun And My open carry pistol (as it's usually a second weapon) |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:55:42 PM EDT
[#18]
I'm curious about RDS, but the cost is prohibitive, and (just thinking through this....) it seems like you have a finite amount of rounds before the RDS fails due to the force of the slide. Not to mention different plates for different sights, just another potential failure point. If you can afford it, more power to you. No issues, as I am sure it helps.
I wonder about the failure rate of RDS on revolvers vs semi-auto's. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 5:57:44 PM EDT
[#19]
I can shoot both, I highly prefer an RMR.
All my carry pistols have one except for the beat gen 1 shield truck pistol; that’s for backup/it’s all gone to crap scenarios only. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:05:39 PM EDT
[#20]
People who rarely shoot and or don’t train to standards will tell you that irons are superior for a number of nonsensical reasons ranging from “you won’t see your sights in a gunfight” to “you don’t need one at gunfight distances” and everything in between.
These reasons are borne of ignorance and lack of training time. A high quality optic is superior in every meaningful way to irons if you actually train with it. If you treat your gun as a talisman and want something to stick in a drawer/holster/glovebox for a year and never train with, stick with irons. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:05:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JBecker_72]
[#21]
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:07:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By z_allied_sphere: I'm curious about RDS, but the cost is prohibitive, and (just thinking through this....) it seems like you have a finite amount of rounds before the RDS fails due to the force of the slide. Not to mention different plates for different sights, just another potential failure point. If you can afford it, more power to you. No issues, as I am sure it helps. I wonder about the failure rate of RDS on revolvers vs semi-auto's. If you buy a quality RDS the chances that’s going to be what causes the failure point are slim. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:09:29 PM EDT
[#23]
There are pros and cons to both, as you age, and especially if you require readers, the RDS has been a watershed.
I’m still more accurate with irons, consistently, but I’m wearing reader safety glasses too. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:09:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: Irons Fixed. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:10:18 PM EDT
[#25]
How do you guys prevent carbon smoking the lens? That's been the biggest problem with my only dot gun.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:12:12 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: How do you guys prevent carbon smoking the lens? That's been the biggest problem with my only dot gun. Are you shooting a ported/comped gun? I’ve literally never seen this as an issue, ever. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:13:20 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stgdz: How do you guys prevent carbon smoking the lens? That's been the biggest problem with my only dot gun. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:17:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11boomboom]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Are you shooting a ported/comped gun? I’ve literally never seen this as an issue, ever. The glass on my M18 gets covered in carbon every range trip very difficult to see through... If I'm failing at my fundamentals. The objective lens can be black for all I care and I can still hit everything I'm aiming at. In fact, I tape up my red dot lens when training.  Attached FileGonna look for a good carbon pic... Kinda smoky  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:18:05 PM EDT
[#29]
When I practice defensive shooting, I do it with the understanding that over 90% of the time, it will be at distances of 6’ or less and I shoot from retention.
I also primarily carry a pocket .380 most of the year since it is hot as all get out where I live and it is the most comfortable way to carry. The 2 months a year the weather is not hot I carry a G19. If I still carried a full sized gun for a living, and there was an expectation of having to draw and point it at people in urban environments, I would have a RDS on the duty gun. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:18:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Are you shooting a ported/comped gun? I've literally never seen this as an issue, ever. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:20:28 PM EDT
[#31]
I wish I could use an RDS. All of the ones I've tried looked like swirling starbursts for me due to astigmatism.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:24:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11boomboom]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WoodHeat: I wish I could use an RDS. All of the ones I've tried looked like swirling starbursts for me due to astigmatism. Target focus or switch brands of RDS. If Trijicon starbursts to you, Holosun will be a cleaner dot, but if you target focus, it'll blur the circumference of the dot and you won't notice a starburst unless you have a BAD astigmatism or are incorrectly focusing your eyes on the target. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:25:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: People who rarely shoot and or don’t train to standards will tell you that irons are superior for a number of nonsensical reasons ranging from “you won’t see your sights in a gunfight” to “you don’t need one at gunfight distances” and everything in between. These reasons are borne of ignorance and lack of training time. A high quality optic is superior in every meaningful way to irons if you actually train with it. If you treat your gun as a talisman and want something to stick in a drawer/holster/glovebox for a year and never train with, stick with irons. I agree. It is better. But the benefits for people that shoot a lot are pretty minimal. I'll change over once I can't see the front sight anymore. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:26:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Any one who practices with a red dot is going to be faster and more accurate than with irons.
Since most don’t practice, it doesn’t matter. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:28:22 PM EDT
[#35]
What science are we talking about here? I use RDS on my pistols, irons on my sg and revolver, and lpvo on my rifles.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:28:48 PM EDT
[#36]
I did the thing, heard the beeps, and saw the light.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:32:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Get both?
365 iron for lightest weight / deep conceal / “lazy day” CCW 365 macro with eps carry 6moa, tlr7 for “heavy” /nighttime / sketchy area CCW |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:40:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: The glass on my M18 gets covered in carbon every range trip very difficult to see through... If I'm failing at my fundamentals. The objective lens can be black for all I care and I can still hit everything I'm aiming at. In fact, I tape up my red dot lens when training. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/523928/20240511_171722_jpg-3211863.JPG Gonna look for a good carbon pic... Kinda smoky https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/523928/20210731_153922_jpg-3211868.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: The glass on my M18 gets covered in carbon every range trip very difficult to see through... If I'm failing at my fundamentals. The objective lens can be black for all I care and I can still hit everything I'm aiming at. In fact, I tape up my red dot lens when training. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/523928/20240511_171722_jpg-3211863.JPG Gonna look for a good carbon pic... Kinda smoky https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/523928/20210731_153922_jpg-3211868.JPG Originally Posted By Gunnie357: If you buy a quality RDS the chances that’s going to be what causes the failure point are slim. Ohhh. Yeah, I’ve seen that but it’s never been an issue. Just wipe it off every couple of hundred rounds. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:40:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PeterPangenderPhD]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: People who rarely shoot and or don’t train to standards will tell you that irons are superior for a number of nonsensical reasons ranging from “you won’t see your sights in a gunfight” to “you don’t need one at gunfight distances” and everything in between. These reasons are borne of ignorance and lack of training time. A high quality optic is superior in every meaningful way to irons if you actually train with it. If you treat your gun as a talisman and want something to stick in a drawer/holster/glovebox for a year and never train with, stick with irons. I'm a master ranked shooter, and I can't really tell a difference between my RDS and irons times on most courses. I think it's kind of like Staccatos, there are a huge range of very mediocre to pretty decent shooters and they're all made better by dots, single action trigger pulls and gadgets. But once you get proficient with a handgun to the point they're all the same, they are all the same. Just won GSSF as a master with nearly identical times for: Glock 44 Rimfire Glock 48 irons Glock 19 irons Glock 34 irons (2nd place) Glock 45 irons Glock 19 MOS SCS I can shoot a bone stock Glock 48 as well as a Glock 19 MOS with an SCS and Glock performance trigger to the point that the outcome is more related to aberrations in my own shooting than the platform. Statistically, I can outshoot 95% of competitive shooters in categories that allow red dots while I'm shooting irons. I find irons are still more natural for me, and I don't like the way that the frame of an RDS obscures things, even when I'm target focused. Yes, I know how to use them. I can see how they would be a huge advantage for a new and middle of the pack shooter. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:41:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WoodHeat: I wish I could use an RDS. All of the ones I've tried looked like swirling starbursts for me due to astigmatism. I also have astigmatism. I just aim using the starburst. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:43:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Once you get the hang of dots, they'll open up a lot of possibilities previously unobtainable.
Training with dots have also made me way better with irons. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:48:37 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Ohhh. Yeah, I’ve seen that but it’s never been an issue. Just wipe it off every couple of hundred rounds. I don't bother. 50% vision one eye, 100% in the other eye. Good to go. 
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:51:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 20andOUT]
[#43]
Today was day one shooting drills from a holster with a dot. I am slower by a small amount, but more accurate for now. I shot the FBI pistol qual clean once and dropped 2 shots below the qit upper scoring portion the other time. Both were still within the time limit and above the 90% for instructor scores.
What I have found is that my presentation has to be about 1/2-3/4” lower to line my eye up with the window. It still feels a little unnatural at the moment but I don’t think I’m going back. 
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:54:40 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 20andOUT: Today was day one shooting drills from a holster with a dot. I am slower by a small amount, but more accurate for now. I shot the FBI pistol qual clean once and dropped 2 shots below the qit upper scoring portion the other time. Both were still within the time limit and above the 90% for instructor scores. What I have found is that my presentation has to be about 1/2-3/4” lower to line my eye up with the window. It still feels a little unnatural at the moment but I don’t think I’m going back. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77352/IMG_8344-3211891.jpg One of the first things I noticed training with dots back in the day was that I could keep my groups tighter on faster strings of fire than irons. Scores were generally the same for me during the transition, but the groups were noticeably tighter and I felt more confident on my splits when pushing speed. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:56:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Would be interested in an RDS if there was one that wasn't so big. Show me one that is small, yet reliable. I'm a slim guy... don't want to add bulk on my hip.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:58:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azjogol: Would be interested in an RDS if there was one that wasn't so big. Show me one that is small, yet reliable. I'm a slim guy... don't want to add bulk on my hip. Have you carried with a red dot before? I've only noticed the increase using larger red dots like the DPP and SRO. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 6:59:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JBecker_72]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By azjogol: Would be interested in an RDS if there was one that wasn't so big. Show me one that is small, yet reliable. I'm a slim guy... don't want to add bulk on my hip.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 7:01:55 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JBecker_72: RMR https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/200145/IMG_2016_jpeg-3211907.JPG Depends on the gun. Smaller and thinner I'd go EPS Carry for the width and height. Most everything else, RMR. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 7:03:56 PM EDT
[#49]
Red dot is better for new users than irons old guys if just shooting for the first time in my experience.
At distance RDS is far superior. Training is superior to both I need to train RDS more |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 7:09:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Originally Posted By Dance: RDS are gaining popularity on Carry Pistols. A lot of people may not get one and just use iron sights due to cost or the need to practice with it. Some people dispute that a RDS is better than iron sights. Have you ignored the science? Is it wrong and iron sights are better than a RDS for carry? I have both. Mission drives the gear. I’m not paid to seek out confrontation. I have little need for an offensive handgun. Walked around the lake this afternoon. Only carried a 12+1 P365 & 15-Round spare. No bears at the lake house. Just coyotes & loose dogs. Jframe would have been better but 365 was already out of the safe and loaded. |
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