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Posted: 4/29/2015 4:59:33 PM EDT
[#1]
The gel did nothing for me. I went on shots and three weeks later was in the 600s. The gel was messy and sticky. I don't mind the shots twice a week.
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Posted: 4/29/2015 10:48:02 PM EDT
[#2]
I tried the patch thing. All it did for me was lower my already low T and gave me a nasty rash to boot.
I should get my latest labs back shortly. I've been on the Clomid thing for a while now so my levels should be at the equilibrium by this point. We'll see what the tests say. |
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Posted: 4/29/2015 11:01:00 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THE-DET-OAK:
Thanks for that! Sorry I've been missing have just been really busy the last 6 months. Glad to be back! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THE-DET-OAK:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Good to have you back oak. Thanks for that! Sorry I've been missing have just been really busy the last 6 months. Glad to be back! Hey stranger. I sent you an email awhile back that I was able to get on the So's insurance so meds are now covered. Thank you for all the help |
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USA
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Posted: 4/30/2015 11:02:32 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delicious_bass:
Hey stranger. I sent you an email awhile back that I was able to get on the So's insurance so meds are now covered. Thank you for all the help Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delicious_bass:
Originally Posted By THE-DET-OAK:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Good to have you back oak. Thanks for that! Sorry I've been missing have just been really busy the last 6 months. Glad to be back! Hey stranger. I sent you an email awhile back that I was able to get on the So's insurance so meds are now covered. Thank you for all the help No problem at all! Thats awesome you got covered! Glad we were able to help you get on the right track. Hope your still doing well, don't hesitate to let me know if you need anything at all. |
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Posted: 4/30/2015 8:51:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#5]
Going to get tested at LabCorp soon.
What's everybodys' recommendation for a PMDLabs test that's not too expensive but is fairly comprehensive with lipid panel? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/30/2015 9:41:29 PM EDT
[#6]
OMG...I started reading this on Page 1 like a normal tread, and realized Arfcom is full of people with Low T. There are 161 pages of this discussion.
Ok, j/k. But as I'm getting older, I'm starting to feel some effects as well. So is there a good summary posted somewhere in this thread or do I need to read through the whole thing? |
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Posted: 4/30/2015 10:32:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pumbaajk]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EXPY37:
Going to get tested at LabCorp soon. What's everybodys' recommendation for a PMDLabs test that's not too expensive but is fairly comprehensive with lipid panel? Hormone panel for males $177. Covers everything but the psa. Sorry, just checked it again and it does. |
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Posted: 4/30/2015 10:41:02 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks, that's the one I've been getting.
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Posted: 4/30/2015 10:48:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EXPY37:
Thanks, that's the one I've been getting. It's not the cheapest test they offer but it gets everything I need done. |
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Posted: 5/1/2015 2:27:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: Hormone panel for males $177. Covers everything but the psa. Sorry, just checked it again and it does. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: Originally Posted By EXPY37: Going to get tested at LabCorp soon. What's everybodys' recommendation for a PMDLabs test that's not too expensive but is fairly comprehensive with lipid panel? Hormone panel for males $177. Covers everything but the psa. Sorry, just checked it again and it does. Now use this code to get 15% off bring it down to around $150.00 J834HTR |
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Posted: 5/2/2015 1:44:22 PM EDT
[#11]
Just got my latest results:
Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. |
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Posted: 5/2/2015 3:04:30 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Just got my latest results: Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. |
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Posted: 5/2/2015 4:18:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Well, the specialist is dropping my TRT down to .7cc (140mg) a week from 1cc (200mg) as he says it is excessive overmedication by the local docs. We'll see how this goes. First new shot is tonight.
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Posted: 5/2/2015 5:00:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorthPolar: Well, the specialist is dropping my TRT down to .7cc (140mg) a week from 1cc (200mg) as he says it is excessive overmedication by the local docs. We'll see how this goes. First new shot is tonight. What does he say justifies the drop in med? |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 5/2/2015 5:13:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
Just got my latest results: Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. Give blood every few months and take a baby asprin a day if supplementing with T |
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Posted: 5/2/2015 5:27:20 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
What are the test numbers? What does he say justifies the drop in med? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By NorthPolar:
Well, the specialist is dropping my TRT down to .7cc (140mg) a week from 1cc (200mg) as he says it is excessive overmedication by the local docs. We'll see how this goes. First new shot is tonight. What does he say justifies the drop in med? It was a combined thing. He thinks the other medications I'm on are screwing up my T levels. For the life of me, I can't remember where I was, ~350-400 I think. It will all get adjusted after he figures out wtf the local docs did and screwed up. (they were treating symptoms, not causes apparently, and causing damage while doing it) |
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Posted: 5/2/2015 5:43:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorthPolar: It was a combined thing. He thinks the other medications I'm on are screwing up my T levels. For the life of me, I can't remember where I was, ~350-400 I think. It will all get adjusted after he figures out wtf the local docs did and screwed up. (they were treating symptoms, not causes apparently, and causing damage while doing it) Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NorthPolar: Originally Posted By jrzy: Originally Posted By NorthPolar: Well, the specialist is dropping my TRT down to .7cc (140mg) a week from 1cc (200mg) as he says it is excessive overmedication by the local docs. We'll see how this goes. First new shot is tonight. What does he say justifies the drop in med? It was a combined thing. He thinks the other medications I'm on are screwing up my T levels. For the life of me, I can't remember where I was, ~350-400 I think. It will all get adjusted after he figures out wtf the local docs did and screwed up. (they were treating symptoms, not causes apparently, and causing damage while doing it) |
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Posted: 5/2/2015 5:57:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
You on any pain meds, they will drive down Testosterone #'s Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By NorthPolar:
Originally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By NorthPolar:
Well, the specialist is dropping my TRT down to .7cc (140mg) a week from 1cc (200mg) as he says it is excessive overmedication by the local docs. We'll see how this goes. First new shot is tonight. What does he say justifies the drop in med? It was a combined thing. He thinks the other medications I'm on are screwing up my T levels. For the life of me, I can't remember where I was, ~350-400 I think. It will all get adjusted after he figures out wtf the local docs did and screwed up. (they were treating symptoms, not causes apparently, and causing damage while doing it) No pain meds, just a lot of other crap. 
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Posted: 5/2/2015 10:33:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Good numbers, how you feel is the best barometer of your T health too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Just got my latest results: Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. Feel pretty good. I'm not getting fatigued anymore and I've started losing weight again. When I was on the half dose I lost 20lbs and ditched the mental fog. In February, I started putting on weight and getting worn out quicker than I should. I decided whatever the problem was, I didn't want to go back to having low T again. So, I asked the endo to up the dose to a full tab a day. Weight gain has been arrested and energy levels are returning quickly. I probably will feel even better once I start getting a decent amount of exercise. Having a long, cold, wet winter followed by more of the same this spring just took all the motivation away to get outside and do stuff. Endo guy also did a CBC to check my blood levels there. All were pretty much smack in the middle of the normal range. Still, I take a regular aspirin every day (but I've been doing that for decades now so nothing new there). All in all, I seem to be doing OK doing the Clomid thing. After I get my body moving again and lose some more weight, I'll probably feel great. 
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Posted: 5/4/2015 9:32:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Carabinero1979:
I just got tested: Free Testosterone - 8.4Total Testosterone - 359 I'm 35 years old. The Doc was reluctant to treat me, but prescribed Fortesta (because Tri Care covers it), and told me to use 2 pumps per day instead of 4 so that I could get into the 400's (he's worried about getting my BP too high). I'm guessing based on what I've read hear in the last 30 minutes, the gel sucks and will suck even more if I half the dosage like the Doc is telling me. Should I look for another doctor, or give the gel a try? your doctor is an idiot. |
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Posted: 5/4/2015 9:34:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Hormone panel for males $177. Covers everything but the psa. Sorry, just checked it again and it does. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By EXPY37:
Going to get tested at LabCorp soon. What's everybodys' recommendation for a PMDLabs test that's not too expensive but is fairly comprehensive with lipid panel? Hormone panel for males $177. Covers everything but the psa. Sorry, just checked it again and it does. Hormone Panel for Females is $70. at check out select Male and they will print the Male reference ranges on your results. even if you mess that up, you can google the Reference ranges. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/4/2015 12:03:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: THE-DET-OAK]
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
Just got my latest results: Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. unless thats a sensitive test your E2 is a tad low. I would stop the AI you don't need it. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2015 10:21:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: THE-DET-OAK]
[#23]
This article was fwd to us courtesy of our NY based Physician:
Injectable Testosterone Earns High Marks for Safety and Effectiveness A newly published review suggests that age-related testosterone deficiency treatment with intramuscular injections of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) offers health benefits and lower cardiovascular risk compared to testosterone replacement by patch or gel.
While TRT can result in increased muscle mass and strength, decreased fat mass, and increased bone mineral density, the therapy has known risks. These include the development of polycythemia, decreases in high-density lipoprotein cholesterol, breast tenderness and enlargement, and prostate issues.
The authors point out, however, that TRT does not increase prostate cancer risk. And whether TRT hurts, helps, or has no effect on cardiovascular risk remains controversial in the literature. The University of Florida, Gainesville, researchers who conducted this latest review were among the authors of a previously published study suggesting that oral TRT increases cardiovascular risk, but no significant cardiovascular effects were noted with injected or transdermal TRT (BMC Med 2014; 12:211). For the current study, which was published online in the American Journal of Physiology – Endocrinology and Metabolism (April 21, 2015), study authors Stephen E. Borst, PhD, and Joshua F. Yarrow, PhD, reviewed literature indicating “that intramuscular injected TRT produces greater musculoskeletal benefits and lower cardiovascular risk compared to transdermal TRT… We also review the literature discussing the use of 5a-reductase inhibitors as a promising means of improving the safety profile of TRT.” According to the authors, for older hypogonadal men, administering TRT by injection, versus orally or transdermally, offers greater musculoskeletal benefits because doses are higher by injection. But while doses are higher when injected, intramuscular TRT might be less likely to result in cardiovascular risks than transdermal TRT. This could be because transdermal testosterone results in greater serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) elevation, due to significant expression of 5a-reductase in skin—not muscle. http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.com/urology-times/RC/injected-trt-earns-high-marks-safety-effectiveness |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 8:12:16 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THE-DET-OAK:
unless thats a sensitive test your E2 is a tad low. I would stop the AI you don't need it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By THE-DET-OAK:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Just got my latest results: Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. unless thats a sensitive test your E2 is a tad low. I would stop the AI you don't need it. I believe it was the sensitive test. I'm not currently taking an AI (and haven't up to this point) because, as you say, it appears I don't need it. The EstroDIM stuff is an OTC herbal that supposedly helps correctly regulate the conversion of T to the "good" estrogens, not the "bad" estrogens. Of course, I've also read that eating lots of broccoli, cauliflower, and other cruciferous vegetables will do the same and it would probably have other benefits in terms of vitamins and such. But who has time for that? 
Time will tell how the longer term works out. I suspect if I get busy and do the things I should be doing, my T will improve as will my overall health. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/6/2015 9:01:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
I believe it was the sensitive test. I'm not currently taking an AI (and haven't up to this point) because, as you say, it appears I don't need it. The EstroDIM stuff is an OTC herbal that supposedly helps correctly regulate the conversion of T to the "good" estrogens, not the "bad" estrogens. Of course, I've also read that eating lots of broccoli, cauliflower, and other cruciferous vegetables will do the same and it would probably have other benefits in terms of vitamins and such. But who has time for that?
Time will tell how the longer term works out. I suspect if I get busy and do the things I should be doing, my T will improve as will my overall health. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By THE-DET-OAK:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Just got my latest results: Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. unless thats a sensitive test your E2 is a tad low. I would stop the AI you don't need it. I believe it was the sensitive test. I'm not currently taking an AI (and haven't up to this point) because, as you say, it appears I don't need it. The EstroDIM stuff is an OTC herbal that supposedly helps correctly regulate the conversion of T to the "good" estrogens, not the "bad" estrogens. Of course, I've also read that eating lots of broccoli, cauliflower, and other cruciferous vegetables will do the same and it would probably have other benefits in terms of vitamins and such. But who has time for that?
Time will tell how the longer term works out. I suspect if I get busy and do the things I should be doing, my T will improve as will my overall health. Over the counter, prescription, it doesn't matter its still an AI (Aromatase Inhibitor). Unless you specifically requested a sensitive, its not gonna be a sensitive. |
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Posted: 5/6/2015 11:11:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Just started going down this road as well. Came up low, and the Doc has started me on 25mg Clomid daily, since I don't have children and may still want some in the future.
Curious how long it usually takes to start feeling the effects? I'm on day 5, and he wants me to do a full month, then come back to get blood work and see the results. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 12:31:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: EXPY37]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
I believe it was the sensitive test. I'm not currently taking an AI (and haven't up to this point) because, as you say, it appears I don't need it. The EstroDIM stuff is an OTC herbal that supposedly helps correctly regulate the conversion of T to the "good" estrogens, not the "bad" estrogens. Of course, I've also read that eating lots of broccoli, cauliflower, and other cruciferous vegetables will do the same and it would probably have other benefits in terms of vitamins and such. But who has time for that?
Time will tell how the longer term works out. I suspect if I get busy and do the things I should be doing, my T will improve as will my overall health. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By THE-DET-OAK:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Just got my latest results: Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. unless thats a sensitive test your E2 is a tad low. I would stop the AI you don't need it. I believe it was the sensitive test. I'm not currently taking an AI (and haven't up to this point) because, as you say, it appears I don't need it. The EstroDIM stuff is an OTC herbal that supposedly helps correctly regulate the conversion of T to the "good" estrogens, not the "bad" estrogens. Of course, I've also read that eating lots of broccoli, cauliflower, and other cruciferous vegetables will do the same and it would probably have other benefits in terms of vitamins and such. But who has time for that?
Time will tell how the longer term works out. I suspect if I get busy and do the things I should be doing, my T will improve as will my overall health. Sitting here eating a late supper of these things plus some fish, after replacing a hot water heater. Made a copy of the above report and will have it delivered to my Family doc tomorrow. Thanks! For the past 2 weeks, until today, I aggressively limited Sub-Q injections for T-C. To roughly 20% my typical dosage and spread the small injections to every 6 or so days. [Instead of every 4 days] Everything was great until 3 days ago and I started getting all sorts of soreness in my legs, hips, back, and indigestion at times. Difficult to sleep comfortably. Not as much motivation. Today I dosed with a high dose of .42 ml of T-C [common concentration] and split the injection, Sub-Q, half on one side of my belly button and half on the other. That was about 10 hrs ago and I don't remember today hurting, but I have stayed very busy. The hot water tank installation is remarkably technically elegant, if I say so myself. 
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Posted: 5/7/2015 11:10:49 AM EDT
[#28]
Vit C acts as a natural AI as well. Takes something like 2g of it and you piss what looks like lemonade.
Oak, since your back, have you ran into testosterone induced snoring? Since I started taking test, I snore like a train full of rhinos running chainsaws. Last year when I started test I started snoring and when I had to come off to do a restart because I was sterile, I stopped snoring. After the wife got pregnant I jumped back on test and started snoring again. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 12:31:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EXPY37: Sitting here eating a late supper of these things plus some fish, after replacing a hot water heater. Made a copy of the above report and will have it delivered to my Family doc tomorrow. Thanks! For the past 2 weeks, until today, I aggressively limited Sub-Q injections for T-C. To roughly 20% my typical dosage and spread the small injections to every 6 or so days. [Instead of every 4 days] Everything was great until 3 days ago and I started getting all sorts of soreness in my legs, hips, back, and indigestion at times. Difficult to sleep comfortably. Not as much motivation. Today I dosed with a high dose of .42 ml of T-C [common concentration] and split the injection, Sub-Q, half on one side of my belly button and half on the other. That was about 10 hrs ago and I don't remember today hurting, but I have stayed very busy. The hot water tank installation is remarkably technically elegant, if I say so myself. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EXPY37: Originally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By THE-DET-OAK: Originally Posted By planemaker: Just got my latest results: Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. unless thats a sensitive test your E2 is a tad low. I would stop the AI you don't need it. I believe it was the sensitive test. I'm not currently taking an AI (and haven't up to this point) because, as you say, it appears I don't need it. The EstroDIM stuff is an OTC herbal that supposedly helps correctly regulate the conversion of T to the "good" estrogens, not the "bad" estrogens. Of course, I've also read that eating lots of broccoli, cauliflower, and other cruciferous vegetables will do the same and it would probably have other benefits in terms of vitamins and such. But who has time for that? Time will tell how the longer term works out. I suspect if I get busy and do the things I should be doing, my T will improve as will my overall health. Sitting here eating a late supper of these things plus some fish, after replacing a hot water heater. Made a copy of the above report and will have it delivered to my Family doc tomorrow. Thanks! For the past 2 weeks, until today, I aggressively limited Sub-Q injections for T-C. To roughly 20% my typical dosage and spread the small injections to every 6 or so days. [Instead of every 4 days] Everything was great until 3 days ago and I started getting all sorts of soreness in my legs, hips, back, and indigestion at times. Difficult to sleep comfortably. Not as much motivation. Today I dosed with a high dose of .42 ml of T-C [common concentration] and split the injection, Sub-Q, half on one side of my belly button and half on the other. That was about 10 hrs ago and I don't remember today hurting, but I have stayed very busy. The hot water tank installation is remarkably technically elegant, if I say so myself. It is simply a water heater |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 12:32:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk: Vit C acts as a natural AI as well. Takes something like 2g of it and you piss what looks like lemonade. Oak, since your back, have you ran into testosterone induced snoring? Since I started taking test, I snore like a train full of rhinos running chainsaws. Last year when I started test I started snoring and when I had to come off to do a restart because I was sterile, I stopped snoring. After the wife got pregnant I jumped back on test and started snoring again. Sometimes even a little wt gain can cause snoring. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 12:37:17 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
You might have put on a little weight? Sometimes even a little wt gain can cause snoring. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Vit C acts as a natural AI as well. Takes something like 2g of it and you piss what looks like lemonade. Oak, since your back, have you ran into testosterone induced snoring? Since I started taking test, I snore like a train full of rhinos running chainsaws. Last year when I started test I started snoring and when I had to come off to do a restart because I was sterile, I stopped snoring. After the wife got pregnant I jumped back on test and started snoring again. Sometimes even a little wt gain can cause snoring. Yes I have about 18 lbs. Like I said, if I stop taking test, I stop snoring. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 3:47:50 PM EDT
[#32]
I've been snoring more too. But also gained ~10lbs since I started.
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Posted: 5/7/2015 3:53:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pumbaajk]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cowboy:
I've been snoring more too. But also gained ~10lbs since I started. I've done alot of reading and it really can't be explained. Some say that testosterone makes the muscles in the jaw relax more while asleep which causes the airway to be restricted causing the snoring. I tried the good morning snore solution tongue condom thing and it didn't work. I'm now trying a mandible mouth piece and while it works, it's hell on my teeth. It works but since it uses your teeth as pressure points, is uncomfortable and I have to wear my retainer so my teeth don't get all screwed up. It's not a it a boil and bite mouth piece like the next one I'm going to try. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 4:05:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Anyone ever heard of this? My testosterone levels tanked with no change in protocol what so ever. Been on the same dose and injecting the same for a year at least. I was staying in the 600 range and it suddenly went down to 237. I was thinking testing error, but my thyroid levels tanked as well.
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Posted: 5/7/2015 5:11:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sparky: Anyone ever heard of this? My testosterone levels tanked with no change in protocol what so ever. Been on the same dose and injecting the same for a year at least. I was staying in the 600 range and it suddenly went down to 237. I was thinking testing error, but my thyroid levels tanked as well. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 5:31:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sparky:
Anyone ever heard of this? My testosterone levels tanked with no change in protocol what so ever. Been on the same dose and injecting the same for a year at least. I was staying in the 600 range and it suddenly went down to 237. I was thinking testing error, but my thyroid levels tanked as well. Check your vial for crystals? If it's separated it can cause problems. I've had 2 vials crystalize on me. And at one point I also think I got a bad batch because my numbers tanked until I switched to a different vial. The other question is how do you feel? Before making any drastic changes I'd re run the tests to confirm the results. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 9:27:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
I've done alot of reading and it really can't be explained. Some say that testosterone makes the muscles in the jaw relax more while asleep which causes the airway to be restricted causing the snoring. I tried the good morning snore solution tongue condom thing and it didn't work. I'm now trying a mandible mouth piece and while it works, it's hell on my teeth. It works but since it uses your teeth as pressure points, is uncomfortable and I have to wear my retainer so my teeth don't get all screwed up. It's not a it a boil and bite mouth piece like the next one I'm going to try. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By cowboy:
I've been snoring more too. But also gained ~10lbs since I started. I've done alot of reading and it really can't be explained. Some say that testosterone makes the muscles in the jaw relax more while asleep which causes the airway to be restricted causing the snoring. I tried the good morning snore solution tongue condom thing and it didn't work. I'm now trying a mandible mouth piece and while it works, it's hell on my teeth. It works but since it uses your teeth as pressure points, is uncomfortable and I have to wear my retainer so my teeth don't get all screwed up. It's not a it a boil and bite mouth piece like the next one I'm going to try. One of the oft-quoted side effects of taking exogenous T is either causing or exacerbating sleep apnea. The science on the causing part I think is a little weak, but the exacerbating definitely is not as it is listed as one of the contraindications. That was one of my other considerations as I have had sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine still. Losing weight will help the apnea/snoring. I had much, much less of a problem when I was at an optimal weight than when I was at +50lbs. Even when I don't use a CPAP machine, I wear an elastic band around my head and jaw to keep my mouth closed. It definitely helps. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 9:58:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: pumbaajk]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
One of the oft-quoted side effects of taking exogenous T is either causing or exacerbating sleep apnea. The science on the causing part I think is a little weak, but the exacerbating definitely is not as it is listed as one of the contraindications. That was one of my other considerations as I have had sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine still. Losing weight will help the apnea/snoring. I had much, much less of a problem when I was at an optimal weight than when I was at +50lbs. Even when I don't use a CPAP machine, I wear an elastic band around my head and jaw to keep my mouth closed. It definitely helps. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker:
Originally Posted By pumbaajk:
Originally Posted By cowboy:
I've been snoring more too. But also gained ~10lbs since I started. I've done alot of reading and it really can't be explained. Some say that testosterone makes the muscles in the jaw relax more while asleep which causes the airway to be restricted causing the snoring. I tried the good morning snore solution tongue condom thing and it didn't work. I'm now trying a mandible mouth piece and while it works, it's hell on my teeth. It works but since it uses your teeth as pressure points, is uncomfortable and I have to wear my retainer so my teeth don't get all screwed up. It's not a it a boil and bite mouth piece like the next one I'm going to try. One of the oft-quoted side effects of taking exogenous T is either causing or exacerbating sleep apnea. The science on the causing part I think is a little weak, but the exacerbating definitely is not as it is listed as one of the contraindications. That was one of my other considerations as I have had sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine still. Losing weight will help the apnea/snoring. I had much, much less of a problem when I was at an optimal weight than when I was at +50lbs. Even when I don't use a CPAP machine, I wear an elastic band around my head and jaw to keep my mouth closed. It definitely helps. I use an app to track my snoring. It's sensitive enough to hear my breathing and I know I don't have sleep apnea. I never stop breathing. I can't help the weight gain. I'm hitting the gym minimum 4x per week and seeing stupid gains in strength and size. Weight gain ain't fat for sure. I'm still I am the same size pants and they are fitting looser. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2015 5:19:44 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By pumbaajk:
Vit C acts as a natural AI as well. Takes something like 2g of it and you piss what looks like lemonade. Oak, since your back, have you ran into testosterone induced snoring? Since I started taking test, I snore like a train full of rhinos running chainsaws. Last year when I started test I started snoring and when I had to come off to do a restart because I was sterile, I stopped snoring. After the wife got pregnant I jumped back on test and started snoring again. Yes unfortunately it happens sometimes, and its possible it could worsen your sleep apnea if you already have it. Definitely want to treat sleep apnea if you have it. Some say your T levels may go back to normal, but I haven't seen it, T is usually still low its just your apnea is better. |
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Posted: 5/11/2015 6:28:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VVS1:
Give blood every few months and take a baby asprin a day if supplementing with T Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By VVS1:
Originally Posted By planemaker:
Just got my latest results: Testosterone: 698 (ref. range 348-1197ng/dL) Estradiol: 26 (ref. range 8-43 ng/L) My last T test was right at 607, which is the average for men my age. I shifted to taking a full pill per day (50mg) vs. a half dose (25mg). Doubling the dose got me ~90 points or so. Since the stuff is cheap, it's probably better to stick with the full dose. My endo guy claims there isn't a significant difference between half and full pill in terms of increased T or safety. I think I'd disagree with not being a difference. I was a little worried about my E levels spiking going to the full dose, but that fear was misplaced as it seems to have had no discernible impact on my E level. (I also take that EstroDim stuff cause it's supposed to help keep T from turning into E. Looks like maybe that's working?) Anywho, so far, so good. I think this is about as good as I'm going to do until I start working out in earnest. My endo suggested that in addition to a brisk walk, that I start lifting weights as that has three benefits: one, it supposedly builds T levels better than other kinds of exercise (though I don't see how), two, it helps build bone density - something that starts declining as we age, and three, it builds lean muscle mass which burns energy at a higher rate than other tissue so it will help me lose weight and gain strength and stamina. Give blood every few months and take a baby asprin a day if supplementing with T No restrictions on giving blood? good. |
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Posted: 5/12/2015 6:21:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: corwin1968]
[#41]
Has anyone used "Low T Center" based out of Texas? I inquired last year and it was too pricey but I've been unhappy with my PCP's treatment of the lowest dose of Androgel.
Since I had surgery in March and hit the yearly Maximium out-of-pocket for my insurance, I call the Low T Center and asked them to check my insurance coverage and the result came back.......FREE!!!! 
I did a 10 week course of weekly injections via DET-OAK's company when I was fighting my insurance company a couple of years ago and I think I did better than the Androgel but it's still pricey. I'm going to try the Low T Center and see how it goes. They do injections every 7-10 days plus other meds as needed and labs every six injections. It's free until December 31st so I don't think I have anything to lose by trying it out. When I made the appointment, the lady on the phone told me to "be sure and drink a lot of water before the test". Does drinking a lot of water influence the test result to be lower to drum up more clients? That's the cynical side of me asking. |
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Posted: 5/12/2015 6:54:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By corwin1968:
Has anyone used "Low T Center" based out of Texas? I inquired last year and it was too pricey but I've been unhappy with my PCP's treatment of the lowest dose of Androgel. Since I had surgery in March and hit the yearly Maximium out-of-pocket for my insurance, I call the Low T Center and asked them to check my insurance coverage and the result came back.......FREE!!!!
I did a 10 week course of weekly injections via DET-OAK's company when I was fighting my insurance company a couple of years ago and I think I did better than the Androgel but it's still pricey. I'm going to try the Low T Center and see how it goes. They do injections every 7-10 days plus other meds as needed and labs every six injections. It's free until December 31st so I don't think I have anything to lose by trying it out. When I made the appointment, the lady on the phone told me to "be sure and drink a lot of water before the test". Does drinking a lot of water influence the test result to be lower to drum up more clients? That's the cynical side of me asking. That's kind of standard advice before blood work, but being dehydrated can skew your liver levels and other things on the metabolic panel. Are you driving to Dallas if so PM me, my new doc has been great to work with. |
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Posted: 5/12/2015 10:45:12 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By corwin1968:
Has anyone used "Low T Center" based out of Texas? I inquired last year and it was too pricey but I've been unhappy with my PCP's treatment of the lowest dose of Androgel. Since I had surgery in March and hit the yearly Maximium out-of-pocket for my insurance, I call the Low T Center and asked them to check my insurance coverage and the result came back.......FREE!!!!
I did a 10 week course of weekly injections via DET-OAK's company when I was fighting my insurance company a couple of years ago and I think I did better than the Androgel but it's still pricey. I'm going to try the Low T Center and see how it goes. They do injections every 7-10 days plus other meds as needed and labs every six injections. It's free until December 31st so I don't think I have anything to lose by trying it out. When I made the appointment, the lady on the phone told me to "be sure and drink a lot of water before the test". Does drinking a lot of water influence the test result to be lower to drum up more clients? That's the cynical side of me asking. Where are you? |
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Posted: 5/13/2015 8:21:37 AM EDT
[#44]
Any one have any tips for keeping from bruising up from blood draws? I always get a bruise when my blood gets drawn but it was never an issue when it was just once a year. Now I look like a junky.
Just put pressure on it after? |
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Posted: 5/13/2015 11:14:34 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC: Any one have any tips for keeping from bruising up from blood draws? I always get a bruise when my blood gets drawn but it was never an issue when it was just once a year. Now I look like a junky. Just put pressure on it after? She is a Phlebotomist and is really good at her job. When they do it right you shouldn't get bruised. |
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Posted: 5/13/2015 9:03:49 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Every time I get stuck I get bruised except when my Wife does it. She is a Phlebotomist and is really good at her job. When they do it right you shouldn't get bruised. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jrzy:
Originally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Any one have any tips for keeping from bruising up from blood draws? I always get a bruise when my blood gets drawn but it was never an issue when it was just once a year. Now I look like a junky.
Just put pressure on it after? She is a Phlebotomist and is really good at her job. When they do it right you shouldn't get bruised. Yeah. There are good ones and bad ones. Somehow, always more bad than good. The lady at the T clinic is an RN. She can do blood draws and I dont feel a thing. The Phleb at my family doc.... I could draw more blood with less pain doing it myself, using a rusty nail and some used straws. |
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Posted: 5/13/2015 9:08:23 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delicious_bass:
Where are you? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delicious_bass:
Originally Posted By corwin1968:
Has anyone used "Low T Center" based out of Texas? I inquired last year and it was too pricey but I've been unhappy with my PCP's treatment of the lowest dose of Androgel. Since I had surgery in March and hit the yearly Maximium out-of-pocket for my insurance, I call the Low T Center and asked them to check my insurance coverage and the result came back.......FREE!!!!
I did a 10 week course of weekly injections via DET-OAK's company when I was fighting my insurance company a couple of years ago and I think I did better than the Androgel but it's still pricey. I'm going to try the Low T Center and see how it goes. They do injections every 7-10 days plus other meds as needed and labs every six injections. It's free until December 31st so I don't think I have anything to lose by trying it out. When I made the appointment, the lady on the phone told me to "be sure and drink a lot of water before the test". Does drinking a lot of water influence the test result to be lower to drum up more clients? That's the cynical side of me asking. Where are you? Far North OKC. I'll be going to the Edmond location. |
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Posted: 5/16/2015 10:13:33 PM EDT
[#48]
I have tested on my own t and its been low for the last year around 300 total. My doctor kept kicking the can down the road, so last week I stopped by the low t center and tested at 156. They gave me my first shot of 200mgs test cyp, but now Im having second thoughts. Im 44 and not sure if I want to be on trt from here on out. Since I only had one dose I was thinking of stopping and trying retsart/pct of clomid, but Im afraid it may be to late if Im testing as low as 156-which was at 3pm btw. Thoughts?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/17/2015 7:33:39 PM EDT
[#49]
I've been doing 1 CC of (200mg/ml) every 2 weeks for the last 5 weeks.
I first tested before we went through invetro and I was in the low 300's (312 IIRC) Fast forward 8 months and I start my IM regimen of 1cc every 2 weeks. Doc wants me tested after week 4 and my number dropped to the mid 200's. 236 or so. My schedule is a little hectic as I'm only home from Friday evening until 4am Monday morning, so I essentially called and set up the blood test myself and only had total Test measured instead of a comprehensive blood panel. Should I have another blood panel run with more data? I expect my doc to contact me tomorrow and I'd like to have a plan of attack to offer her. Should I suggest 1cc every week instead of every 2 weeks and then run a comprehensive panel after a few weeks? |
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Posted: 5/17/2015 7:51:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TexasDoubleTap:
I've been doing 1 CC of (200mg/ml) every 2 weeks for the last 5 weeks. I first tested before we went through invetro and I was in the low 300's (312 IIRC) Fast forward 8 months and I start my IM regimen of 1cc every 2 weeks. Doc wants me tested after week 4 and my number dropped to the mid 200's. 236 or so. My schedule is a little hectic as I'm only home from Friday evening until 4am Monday morning, so I essentially called and set up the blood test myself and only had total Test measured instead of a comprehensive blood panel. Should I have another blood panel run with more data? I expect my doc to contact me tomorrow and I'd like to have a plan of attack to offer her. Should I suggest 1cc every week instead of every 2 weeks and then run a comprehensive panel after a few weeks? Once every two weeks is way too far apart. The half life I think is six days. I do .5 ml (50mg) twice each week. |
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