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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:44:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Usernames]
 Ep 66: Marcus Luttrell: The Truth I remember thinking it made no sense while reading the book when it first came out. You have to hold some impromptu vote rather than having an sop? Amongst other things. Then the video by the ambushers came out. The story just didn't pass the smell test. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:48:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Whatever.
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:49:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RealityCheck0311]
[#2]
The ambush/enemy videos were a tough watch.
Especially when they were playing with the equipment and treating the body(s) with disrespect. Enjoyed the movie though. Kind of like Black Hawk Down...not a movie I watch very often. I've heard so many conflicting stories, it's tough to separate the truth from embellishments. Like the rumor at one time that he came off the mountain with fully loaded mags. Or how the Afghan guy that helped was treated later, I'm sure there is two sides to that story. |
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JPN
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:02:59 AM EDT
[#3]
When I read the book (long before the movie was in the works), as I got to the point where the helicopter crew drops the fast rope at the LZ, then the team doglegs to the objective... I had to re-read that part three of four times to make sure was reading it correctly. I know the book was ghostwritten by a non-military type but I have to take it that these were factual.
Marking the point of insertion with the fastrope for the Hadjis was the kind of boot mistake which our experience in Vietnam should have informed them to never do. This was the undoing of the operation. And then the "rescue" team using the SAME LZ was another boot mistake that Vietnam taught us to never do - and they paid for it. I have heard from a few sources that Navy SEALs (at least until recently) were generally poor at map reading and dog-legging to an objective shows this to be the case. I'm not happy talking bad about fallen Americans but the lessons learned in Vietnam during the 1960's really should never have been forgotten - having already been paid for in blood. This is on the US Navy command for not remembering. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:10:14 AM EDT
[#4]
Comments begin around 1:05 ish
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:14:25 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronin76: When I read the book (long before the movie was in the works), as I got to the point where the helicopter crew drops the fast rope at the LZ, then the team doglegs to the objective... I had to re-read that part three of four times to make sure was reading it correctly. I know the book was ghostwritten by a non-military type but I have to take it that these were factual. Marking the point of insertion with the fastrope for the Hadjis was the kind of boot mistake which our experience in Vietnam should have informed them to never do. This was the undoing of the operation. And then the "rescue" team using the SAME LZ was another boot mistake that Vietnam taught us to never do - and they paid for it. I have heard from a few sources that Navy SEALs (at least until recently) were generally poor at map reading and dog-legging to an objective shows this to be the case. I'm not happy talking bad about fallen Americans but the lessons learned in Vietnam during the 1960's really should never have been forgotten - having already been paid for in blood. This is on the US Navy command for not remembering. They were a SDV team that didn't have a lot of land warfare experience. This mission was shopped around and this SEAL team took it. They didn't have the right equipment and the mission was poorly planned. Prior to 9/11 the SDV teams were where you didn't want to go as a new SEAL. The whole thing about being attacked by dozens to hundreds of fighters is pure embellishment. Well respected authors and war writers have gone over loads of evidence and put the number of enemy fighters at 15 at most. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:18:13 AM EDT
[#6]
2hrs. What's the summary?
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:23:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Keekleberrys]
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronin76: When I read the book (long before the movie was in the works), as I got to the point where the helicopter crew drops the fast rope at the LZ, then the team doglegs to the objective... I had to re-read that part three of four times to make sure was reading it correctly. I know the book was ghostwritten by a non-military type but I have to take it that these were factual. Marking the point of insertion with the fastrope for the Hadjis was the kind of boot mistake which our experience in Vietnam should have informed them to never do. This was the undoing of the operation. And then the "rescue" team using the SAME LZ was another boot mistake that Vietnam taught us to never do - and they paid for it. I have heard from a few sources that Navy SEALs (at least until recently) were generally poor at map reading and dog-legging to an objective shows this to be the case. I'm not happy talking bad about fallen Americans but the lessons learned in Vietnam during the 1960's really should never have been forgotten - having already been paid for in blood. This is on the US Navy command for not remembering. The sad reality its difficult to comment on posts like this because it triggers the fuck out of people. But if you don’t speak up more people will die so it needs to happen. You must speak up. Service branches should stick to the things that they are good at. The Navy needs to be focusing on their big ships with lots of air planes, their smaller ships with lots of missiles, subs/strategic nuclear deterrence. And nothing else. |
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JPN
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:23:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Ronin76]
[#8]
This mission was originally tasked to a Marine company but Navy command stepped in and re-tasked it to the SEALs. From what I understand they really didn't give them adequate time to plan and prep. The mistakes made after that just sealed their fate.
It was utter hubris to leave unmistakable evidence at the LZ. I suppose that to the upper brass the Afghans were nothing but illiterate goat headers. But they overlooked the fact that the Afghans at that location have been running goats through those mountains for thousands of years. Every peak, ridgeline, valley, stream, and forest is to them their back yard and they know it as well as any man knows his own property. They probably knew - within a couple hundred yards - where the LZ was just from the sounds/echos. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:29:09 AM EDT
[#9]
Jessica lynch rescue
Pat Tillman Robert's ridge and John Chapman Redwings Some big time propaganda and cover up shit. |
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JPN
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:31:32 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Keekleberrys: The sad reality its difficult to comment on posts like this because it triggers the fuck out of people. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Keekleberrys: The sad reality its difficult to comment on posts like this because it triggers the fuck out of people. Understood. And I'm not happy doing this... Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: But if you don’t speak up more people will die so it needs to happen. You must speak up. Yes. I feel it needs to be pointed out. Thank you. Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: Service branches should stick to the things that they are good at. I have heard that recently (within the past 10 years or so) the Navy has been sending some SEALs through Army Ranger school to get a master's course in proper small unit tactics/skills - particularly to master map reading. So at least something has started happening to address these issues. I'm not sure if this is in reaction to "Lone Survivor" but either way it needed to be addressed. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:41:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Keekleberrys]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronin76: Understood. And I'm not happy doing this... Yes. I feel it needs to be pointed out. Thank you. I have heard that recently (within the past 10 years or so) the Navy has been sending some SEALs through Army Ranger school to get a master's course in proper small unit tactics/skills - particularly to master map reading. So at least something has started happening to address these issues. I'm not sure if this is in reaction to "Lone Survivor" but either way it needed to be addressed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronin76: Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: The sad reality its difficult to comment on posts like this because it triggers the fuck out of people. Understood. And I'm not happy doing this... Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: But if you don’t speak up more people will die so it needs to happen. You must speak up. Yes. I feel it needs to be pointed out. Thank you. Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: Service branches should stick to the things that they are good at. I have heard that recently (within the past 10 years or so) the Navy has been sending some SEALs through Army Ranger school to get a master's course in proper small unit tactics/skills - particularly to master map reading. So at least something has started happening to address these issues. I'm not sure if this is in reaction to "Lone Survivor" but either way it needed to be addressed. They should be reverted more towards their original mission and UDT type stuff. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:50:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: They were a SDV team that didn't have a lot of land warfare experience. This mission was shopped around and this SEAL team took it. They didn't have the right equipment and the mission was poorly planned. Prior to 9/11 the SDV teams were where you didn't want to go as a new SEAL. The whole thing about being attacked by dozens to hundreds of fighters is pure embellishment. Well respected authors and war writers have gone over loads of evidence and put the number of enemy fighters at 15 at most. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: Originally Posted By Ronin76: When I read the book (long before the movie was in the works), as I got to the point where the helicopter crew drops the fast rope at the LZ, then the team doglegs to the objective... I had to re-read that part three of four times to make sure was reading it correctly. I know the book was ghostwritten by a non-military type but I have to take it that these were factual. Marking the point of insertion with the fastrope for the Hadjis was the kind of boot mistake which our experience in Vietnam should have informed them to never do. This was the undoing of the operation. And then the "rescue" team using the SAME LZ was another boot mistake that Vietnam taught us to never do - and they paid for it. I have heard from a few sources that Navy SEALs (at least until recently) were generally poor at map reading and dog-legging to an objective shows this to be the case. I'm not happy talking bad about fallen Americans but the lessons learned in Vietnam during the 1960's really should never have been forgotten - having already been paid for in blood. This is on the US Navy command for not remembering. They were a SDV team that didn't have a lot of land warfare experience. This mission was shopped around and this SEAL team took it. They didn't have the right equipment and the mission was poorly planned. Prior to 9/11 the SDV teams were where you didn't want to go as a new SEAL. The whole thing about being attacked by dozens to hundreds of fighters is pure embellishment. Well respected authors and war writers have gone over loads of evidence and put the number of enemy fighters at 15 at most. The mission wasn't shopped around. It was 2/3 Marines AOR, but needed support and the only support was SOF, and socom wanted a socom team to do it if there was going to be any support. So 2/3 gave them all the intel and atmospherics and logistics and socom used it as shit paper. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:24:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Pallas]
[#13]
People with experience in that area (terrain, enemy, cover) said it was a horrible idea to send a small team in there.
The SEALs had it rough in the beginning of GWOT, they really didn’t come from an infantry type back ground like Marines/Army SO do. They seemed to have gotten it together though. Either way, it’s crummy that it happened. Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: Just my opinion. Seals should not exist. They should be reverted to their original mission. Mine clearing and preparing the beaches for the true chads IE the Army and Marines. I don’t know if I agree with that, but they should probably stick to the maritime thing, which is really what their job was supposed to be. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 2:30:14 AM EDT
[#14]
I try not to get too judgmental, I wasn't there.
But sending a fireteam into that area with a thin comms plan and no persisting CAS is... not a good idea. I lived in those mountains for a while. 
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:14:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scrolledandtabbed: I try not to get too judgmental, I wasn't there. But sending a fireteam into that area with a thin comms plan and no persisting CAS is... not a good idea. I lived in those mountains for a while. https://i.imgur.com/OBBPjVO.jpg With the advent of weaponized drones, combat outposts like this will become incredibly difficult to defend. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:21:35 AM EDT
[#16]
RIP to the fallen.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 3:45:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: spydercomonkey]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: With the advent of weaponized drones, combat outposts like this will become incredibly difficult to defend. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Brok3n: Originally Posted By scrolledandtabbed: I try not to get too judgmental, I wasn't there. But sending a fireteam into that area with a thin comms plan and no persisting CAS is... not a good idea. I lived in those mountains for a while. https://i.imgur.com/OBBPjVO.jpg With the advent of weaponized drones, combat outposts like this will become incredibly difficult to defend. I think the outposts will get their own minigun 7.62 Phalanx CIWS or airbursting autocannons (30x113mm on a JLTV or fixed mount). I think the real problem will be providing persistent drone defense outside of the outpost. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 4:58:56 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Honeypot_DMZ: 2hrs. What's the summary? Some people did something really stupid and everybody except one dude, who is mainly responsible for the stupidity, died. The one dude survived and is made out to be a hero. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:16:44 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronin72: Some people did something really stupid and everybody except one dude, who is mainly responsible for the stupidity, died. The one dude survived and is made out to be a hero. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronin72: Originally Posted By Honeypot_DMZ: 2hrs. What's the summary? Some people did something really stupid and everybody except one dude, who is mainly responsible for the stupidity, died. The one dude survived and is made out to be a hero. Wasn’t he accused of embellishing, a lot? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:19:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Usernames: Jessica lynch rescue Pat Tillman Robert's ridge and John Chapman Redwings Some big time propaganda and cover up shit. a wiseguy once said, Where there's killin, there's liein. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 6:58:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Crusader44]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M1Zeppelin: Wasn’t he accused of embellishing, a lot? More like made up his story completely, much like what happened to Pat Tillman.  I believe it was a cover up of a FUBARed op. ALL LIES. The "official" story makes zero sense. It was more important to protect the dignity of the SEALs than too tell the truth. The second half of that podcast from 1:05 onwards hurt my heart. Wounded Americans were left to die...abandoned. Honorable warriors lost , luttrell running away like a bitch and abandoning his teammates. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. Rage intensifies. ETA: I wasn't a team guy, but I'm capable of rationally dissecting a narrative. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:06:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pallas: People with experience in that area (terrain, enemy, cover) said it was a horrible idea to send a small team in there. The SEALs had it rough in the beginning of GWOT, they really didn’t come from an infantry type back ground like Marines/Army SO do. They seemed to have gotten it together though. Either way, it’s crummy that it happened. I don’t know if I agree with that, but they should probably stick to the maritime thing, which is really what their job was supposed to be. 2/3 sent a STA team in there with beltfeds, preplanned fires, and proper comms. Because that's how you are supposed to conduct those kinds of missions. They slayed bodies. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 7:23:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RandyLahey01]
[#23]
The lone survivor part starts around 1hr15 or so not sure on timestamp. Basically there was a massive coverup. Survivor is seen running away the entire time on overhead feed, they took the mission because marines wanted to use 160th but the 160th didn’t work with those marines, survivor guy tells the truth but navy said you could either be a millionaire and say what we tell you or you can be broadcasted as a “coward” and destroy the SEALs image. He was found with full mags. Survivor told GB everyone was dead. Turns out axleson lived for days after ambush and would have been found sooner had survivor not claimed they all died. I’d listen to it though as I’m loosely regurgitating.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 10:45:36 AM EDT
[#24]
I read the book when it first came out. Something didn't sit right. Luttrell speaking anywhere that would have him seemed a little suspect. For a few years he was everywhere. To me, he always acted like he wasn't comfortable with what he was saying.
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:00:01 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By scrolledandtabbed: I try not to get too judgmental, I wasn't there. But sending a fireteam into that area with a thin comms plan and no persisting CAS is... not a good idea. I lived in those mountains for a while. https://i.imgur.com/OBBPjVO.jpg OP Shilo? |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:13:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RandyLahey01: The lone survivor part starts around 1hr15 or so not sure on timestamp. Basically there was a massive coverup. Survivor is seen running away the entire time on overhead feed, they took the mission because marines wanted to use 160th but the 160th didn't work with those marines, survivor guy tells the truth but navy said you could either be a millionaire and say what we tell you or you can be broadcasted as a "coward" and destroy the SEALs image. He was found with full mags. Survivor told GB everyone was dead. Turns out axleson lived for days after ambush and would have been found sooner had survivor not claimed they all died. I'd listen to it though as I'm loosely regurgitating. 
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:14:36 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:16:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Glck1911]
[#28]
Most of this has already been said/heard. There was some information I haven't heard before.
The SEAL in the video claims that there were Team 6 guys loading onto the QRF (including Robert O'Neil), but their command came and pulled them off because they knew there was anti-air in the area. Guys from the chopper that didn't get shot down reported the first chopper was shot down by anti-air, but the official story was a lucky RPG. The second chopper landed and they were preparing to go look for survivors of the crash, but they were told to RTB even though there were reports of signaling devices and firefights. The team on the ground (Marcus') had comms the entire time, they just weren't being manned back at base when they were trying to call in that they had contact. He claims there is predator footage of the firefight which shows Marcus running away Axelson's body was found 10 days later (this I had hear), but he had only been dead for a day. I don't believe the official story/book/movie, but who knows what the truth is. I do think the truth matters and it's important we one day hear it. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:43:14 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Glck1911: Most of this has already been said/heard. There was some information I haven't heard before. The SEAL in the video claims that there were Team 6 guys loading onto the QRF (including Robert O'Neil), but their command came and pulled them off because they knew there was anti-air in the area. Guys from the chopper that didn't get shot down reported the first chopper was shot down by anti-air, but the official story was a lucky RPG. The second chopper landed and they were preparing to go look for survivors of the crash, but they were told to RTB even though there were reports of signaling devices and firefights. The team on the ground (Marcus') had comms the entire time, they just weren't being manned back at base when they were trying to call in that they had contact. He claims there is predator footage of the firefight which shows Marcus running away Axelson's body was found 10 days later (this I had hear), but he had only been dead for a day. I don't believe the official story/book/movie, but who knows what the truth is. I do think the truth matters and it's important we one day hear it. I doubt we will ever know the truth, for certain. When I see stuff like this, I immediately wonder how many of ANY of our "Hero" stories are true. Chesty Puller? Audie Murphy? Hacksaw Ridge? The flag-rasing at Iwo-Jima? People - especially veterans - are emotionally invested and NEED those stories to be true. To doubt or question them is seen as nearly treasonous. It appears that almost all of the heroic accounts in recent history have been at the very least exaggerated, if not mostly fabricated entirely. Also consider that the government NEEDS people to believe in these stories - whether they actually happened or not. It would be impossible to maintain any kind of military if there weren't stories of noble heroes accomplishing incredible things through heroic sacrifice. What does a government do if those situations aren't happening organically? It also conveniently makes it nearly impossible for anyone to question anything about the overall mission or objective, once someone has died while trying to accomplish it. Once someone dies - especially if under particularly heroic circumstances - many people consider questioning anything about the mission to be dishonoring those who died, or those who fought with them. The govt tried to do this with the "brave officers who died during Jan 6." It has worked with a large number of people. It would be foolish to think that you've never been fooled before, and that all of the heroic stories you do believe, actually happened that way. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 11:54:41 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gunner226: I doubt we will ever know the truth, for certain. When I see stuff like this, I immediately wonder how many of ANY of our "Hero" stories are true. Chesty Puller? Audie Murphy? Hacksaw Ridge? The flag-rasing at Iwo-Jima? People - especially veterans - are emotionally invested and NEED those stories to be true. To doubt or question them is seen as nearly treasonous. It appears that almost all of the heroic accounts in recent history have been at the very least exaggerated, if not mostly fabricated entirely. Also consider that the government NEEDS people to believe in these stories - whether they actually happened or not. It would be impossible to maintain any kind of military if there weren't stories of noble heroes accomplishing incredible things through heroic sacrifice. What does a government do if those situations aren't happening organically? It also conveniently makes it nearly impossible for anyone to question anything about the overall mission or objective, once someone has died while trying to accomplish it. Once someone dies - especially if under particularly heroic circumstances - many people consider questioning anything about the mission to be dishonoring those who died, or those who fought with them. The govt tried to do this with the "brave officers who died during Jan 6." It has worked with a large number of people. It would be foolish to think that you've never been fooled before, and that all of the heroic stories you do believe, actually happened that way. I don't disagree, but in the video they talk about Robert's Ridge and how the truth came to light because there was predator footage of the entire incident. This seems to be a similar situation. I think the truth on this one will actually come out eventually. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:14:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Keekleberrys: Just my opinion. Seals should not exist. They should be reverted to their original mission. Mine clearing and preparing the beaches for the true chads IE the Army and Marines. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Keekleberrys: Originally Posted By Ronin76: Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: The sad reality its difficult to comment on posts like this because it triggers the fuck out of people. Understood. And I'm not happy doing this... Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: But if you don’t speak up more people will die so it needs to happen. You must speak up. Yes. I feel it needs to be pointed out. Thank you. Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: Service branches should stick to the things that they are good at. I have heard that recently (within the past 10 years or so) the Navy has been sending some SEALs through Army Ranger school to get a master's course in proper small unit tactics/skills - particularly to master map reading. So at least something has started happening to address these issues. I'm not sure if this is in reaction to "Lone Survivor" but either way it needed to be addressed. Just my opinion. Seals should not exist. They should be reverted to their original mission. Mine clearing and preparing the beaches for the true chads IE the Army and Marines. I’ll get my popcorn and Diet Coke ready! This is going to be fun….18Z50 |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:16:03 PM EDT
[#32]
Another seal with a fabricated tale.
Shocking. |
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CHN
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:22:15 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: They were a SDV team that didn't have a lot of land warfare experience. This mission was shopped around and this SEAL team took it. They didn't have the right equipment and the mission was poorly planned. Prior to 9/11 the SDV teams were where you didn't want to go as a new SEAL. The whole thing about being attacked by dozens to hundreds of fighters is pure embellishment. Well respected authors and war writers have gone over loads of evidence and put the number of enemy fighters at 15 at most. Not sure how we could accurately determine it was 15 at most. I would expect more uncertainty than that. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:27:41 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Not sure how we could accurately determine it was 15 at most. I would expect more uncertainty than that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Originally Posted By Rebel31: They were a SDV team that didn't have a lot of land warfare experience. This mission was shopped around and this SEAL team took it. They didn't have the right equipment and the mission was poorly planned. Prior to 9/11 the SDV teams were where you didn't want to go as a new SEAL. The whole thing about being attacked by dozens to hundreds of fighters is pure embellishment. Well respected authors and war writers have gone over loads of evidence and put the number of enemy fighters at 15 at most. Not sure how we could accurately determine it was 15 at most. I would expect more uncertainty than that. My thoughts also |
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CHN
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:27:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RandyLahey01: The lone survivor part starts around 1hr15 or so not sure on timestamp. Basically there was a massive coverup. Survivor is seen running away the entire time on overhead feed, they took the mission because marines wanted to use 160th but the 160th didn’t work with those marines, survivor guy tells the truth but navy said you could either be a millionaire and say what we tell you or you can be broadcasted as a “coward” and destroy the SEALs image. He was found with full mags. Survivor told GB everyone was dead. Turns out axleson lived for days after ambush and would have been found sooner had survivor not claimed they all died. I’d listen to it though as I’m loosely regurgitating. My understanding was that they were hit from above by guys who had things like PKMs and that the survivor probably had no chance to survive unless he went down that hill fast. The idea that one of the others actually survived for days in new info. Did he die from wounds he received in ambush? Or events after? |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:30:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MFP_4073]
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PabloMcGlock: RIP to the fallen. exactly. mistakes were made -- but those were men of valor. what's the phrase ? the first casualty in war is the truth. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:31:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Usernames: Jessica lynch rescue Pat Tillman Robert's ridge and John Chapman Redwings Some big time propaganda and cover up shit. USS Maine RMS Lusitania Pearl Harbor Golf of Tonkin Etc The government can't not lie frfr |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:31:38 PM EDT
[#38]
I am not military or use a firearm to make a living, bit I will say, I read Lone Survivor cover to cover without setting it down, I really liked the book. I watched the movie, only once, but did have a lot of questions on the break down of planning and execution of the mission....something did not seem right
Will leave it like that |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:32:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Has Luttrell ever answered critical questions about the inconsistencies?
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CHN
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:36:58 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fargo007: Has Luttrell ever answered critical questions about the inconsistencies? My impression is that the military pushed him towards a narrative and he's trapped by that. It must be an awful place to be. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:48:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ThatGuy01]
[#41]
It's been known for years that the story is bullshit - and the movie just took the bullshit and added a LOT more layers of stupid. Glad more details are coming out but it's a shitshow all around.
Ed Darak's 'Victory Point' was a really good account of a lot of what happened in the valley and well researched - if you have the time, it's worth a read. To the earlier comment about the OPFOR numbers, the group in the valley was maybe a dozen guys before they ambushed the SEALs. They increased after that as I recall due to the notoriety but it was never the hundreds Luttrell later stated or as shown in the (incredibly factually terrible) film. Originally Posted By DonS: My impression is that the military pushed him towards a narrative and he's trapped by that. It must be an awful place to be. He went through one of the worst days of his life, probably has massive survivor's guilt, and can't be honest with the public or maybe even himself. No thank you. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:51:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: My impression is that the military pushed him towards a narrative and he's trapped by that. It must be an awful place to be. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Originally Posted By fargo007: Has Luttrell ever answered critical questions about the inconsistencies? My impression is that the military pushed him towards a narrative and he's trapped by that. It must be an awful place to be. Yeah it’s pretty hard to I ring that bell. Similar to the Lance Armstrong situation but a million times worse because of the people involved. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:55:34 PM EDT
[#43]
he looks like hes on the spectrum
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AK, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 12:57:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: feetpiece]
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Honeypot_DMZ: 2hrs. What's the summary? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Honeypot_DMZ: 2hrs. What's the summary? Originally Posted By Usernames: Jessica lynch rescue Pat Tillman Robert's ridge and John Chapman Redwings Some big time propaganda and cover up shit. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:04:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: feetpiece]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RandyLahey01: The lone survivor part starts around 1hr15 or so not sure on timestamp. Basically there was a massive coverup. Survivor is seen running away the entire time on overhead feed, they took the mission because marines wanted to use 160th but the 160th didn’t work with those marines, survivor guy tells the truth but navy said you could either be a millionaire and say what we tell you or you can be broadcasted as a “coward” and destroy the SEALs image. He was found with full mags. Survivor told GB everyone was dead. Turns out axleson lived for days after ambush and would have been found sooner had survivor not claimed they all died. I’d listen to it though as I’m loosely regurgitating. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RandyLahey01: The lone survivor part starts around 1hr15 or so not sure on timestamp. Basically there was a massive coverup. Survivor is seen running away the entire time on overhead feed, they took the mission because marines wanted to use 160th but the 160th didn’t work with those marines, survivor guy tells the truth but navy said you could either be a millionaire and say what we tell you or you can be broadcasted as a “coward” and destroy the SEALs image. He was found with full mags. Survivor told GB everyone was dead. Turns out axleson lived for days after ambush and would have been found sooner had survivor not claimed they all died. I’d listen to it though as I’m loosely regurgitating. Don't forget ST6 pulling it's two guy's off the rescue bird which was likely due to the Title-50 Bro's having intel on SA-7's they couldn't share with CDR Kristensen. Apparently Rob Aye Schott BinLaden O'Niell admitted on another podcast he was one of the guy's pulled. Originally Posted By KILLERB6: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Antihero-Podcast-Ep-66-Marcus-Luttrell-the-truth-Redwing-Thread-/5-2715315/ I wonder how many of those views were because I posted it here. |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:06:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: feetpiece]
[#46]
delete
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:09:24 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pallas: People with experience in that area (terrain, enemy, cover) said it was a horrible idea to send a small team in there. The SEALs had it rough in the beginning of GWOT, they really didn’t come from an infantry type back ground like Marines/Army SO do. They seemed to have gotten it together though. Either way, it’s crummy that it happened. I don’t know if I agree with that, but they should probably stick to the maritime thing, which is really what their job was supposed to be. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Pallas: People with experience in that area (terrain, enemy, cover) said it was a horrible idea to send a small team in there. The SEALs had it rough in the beginning of GWOT, they really didn’t come from an infantry type back ground like Marines/Army SO do. They seemed to have gotten it together though. Either way, it’s crummy that it happened. Originally Posted By Keekleberrys: Just my opinion. Seals should not exist. They should be reverted to their original mission. Mine clearing and preparing the beaches for the true chads IE the Army and Marines. I don’t know if I agree with that, but they should probably stick to the maritime thing, which is really what their job was supposed to be. They set up a land warfare school in response to ORW. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:15:56 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: My impression is that the military pushed him towards a narrative and he's trapped by that. It must be an awful place to be. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Originally Posted By fargo007: Has Luttrell ever answered critical questions about the inconsistencies? My impression is that the military pushed him towards a narrative and he's trapped by that. It must be an awful place to be. We have to stop with the cognitive dissonance. Our government is corrupt. We know that. Our military leaders are involved and complicit in the corruption. We know that. Our military is being used by those corrupt politicians and military leaders for purposes that go beyond the basic "defend America" mission. We also know that. And you think that a member of the SEALs - the most secret, elite, highly-trained unit in our military - the unit that those corrupt politicians trust to task with doing black ops that will never see the light of day - would be uncomfortable maintaining the official government-created-and-approved version of events? Please. Propaganda is a necessary tool. The best propaganda is the actual truth. Second-best is a story that feels good to believe. Aside from the personal loss of losing fellow SEALs, I'm sure Marcus is losing no sleep over maintaining the official storyline. Every story he's ever told about any mission had to be approved before he talked about it. You don't actually think all of those other stories were 100% factual, and that THIS was the only time he was ever told to lie, do you? |
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USA
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:17:28 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sharkman74: he looks like hes on the spectrum His jumbled narrative seems to boil down to a slapdash set of actions that Cascade into a disaster. From no one listening to the team on the ground in the TOC(because they were playing grabass games outside)to not dispatching the preplanned Marine QRF because...either they underestimated the terrain or they were too embarrassed to ask for help. or both. He then asserts a bunch of coverup actions that were likely to cost lives, but the SEAL commanders went with it. He even alleges that ST6 was privy to info about guided missiles in the area, and quietly(!?!) pulled their guys from the QRF and let the Vanilla SEALs fly into retain death. He then construes every action after that as malicious in support of a coverup. Then he goes on to indict every famous SEAL from Kyle to Jocko as being glory hunting phonies in-country and lying "Brand" builders stateside. He has some very specific people he hates and essentially accuses of War Crimes and treachery. The podcast interviewer fully endorses an investigative reporter that did the expose on ST6 "Code Over Country." in another podcast where he goes after Rob O'Neil with everything but the kitchen sink. The podcast twat wearing sunglasses literally creams at all the conspiracy theories. |
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Posted: 3/26/2024 1:41:19 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: My understanding was that they were hit from above by guys who had things like PKMs and that the survivor probably had no chance to survive unless he went down that hill fast. The idea that one of the others actually survived for days in new info. Did he die from wounds he received in ambush? Or events after? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DonS: Originally Posted By RandyLahey01: The lone survivor part starts around 1hr15 or so not sure on timestamp. Basically there was a massive coverup. Survivor is seen running away the entire time on overhead feed, they took the mission because marines wanted to use 160th but the 160th didn’t work with those marines, survivor guy tells the truth but navy said you could either be a millionaire and say what we tell you or you can be broadcasted as a “coward” and destroy the SEALs image. He was found with full mags. Survivor told GB everyone was dead. Turns out axleson lived for days after ambush and would have been found sooner had survivor not claimed they all died. I’d listen to it though as I’m loosely regurgitating. My understanding was that they were hit from above by guys who had things like PKMs and that the survivor probably had no chance to survive unless he went down that hill fast. The idea that one of the others actually survived for days in new info. Did he die from wounds he received in ambush? Or events after? Sir, I am not sure. I know the bad guys had high ground and decent weapons. I am not sure about axleson, the recuse team found him ten days later dead and claimed he hadn’t been dead longer than a day or two. I was just answering someone’s question for cliff notes. I watched the podcast and figured I’d give cliff notes until they had a chance to watch the show, which I encouraged. I have no dog on this fight and I won’t speak to who is right or wrong or whether people may or may not have done something wrong or right. |
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