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Posted: 5/9/2024 3:48:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Corvette-Racer]
[#1]
Can't say much due to NDA, but the major datacenters (think Google, AWS, etc.) have been using liquid cooled servers/racks for years.
Example:  How to Cool a Data Center with an In-rack Liquid Cooling System? |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 4:18:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: What maintenance? I've been using the AIO coolers for over a decade. I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've had to perform maintenance, and I'd still have all 5 fingers left over. Literally zero maintenance. Are you saying if I installed a non-liquid filled cooler, maintenance would go to less than zero? Remove the fans from the radiator. Odds are there's a TON of dust in there. You should be doing maintenance on your tower every 6 months to maintain appropriate performance. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 4:30:01 PM EDT
[#3]
People should go look at some benchmarks.
A lot of people saying AIO coolers are quieter are simply wrong. Unless you're only comparing them to stock coolers or cheap junk coolers. A Noctua D15 will perform on par with and even beat some of the 240mm AIO coolers while being objectively quieter in the process. Blowing dust out of an air cooler is easier than disassembling a water cooler to blow it out. Even if you do a pull configuration blowing the dust into the rad isn't great so you should remove the radiator and fans and blow it out. Unless you're buying a 360mm+ AIO cooler, you're not really gaining anything over a quality air cooler like the D15 other than the ability to brag to your buddies that your computer is 'water cooled'. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 8:30:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eclark53520: Remove the fans from the radiator. Odds are there's a TON of dust in there. You should be doing maintenance on your tower every 6 months to maintain appropriate performance. Or else what? I've got some that haven't been cleaned in 6yr. I can still peg the cpu at 100% on all cores and it'll sit at 55C all day long. |
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NH, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 9:21:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Water cooling is just air cooling with extra steps. There are increasingly few use cases where it makes sense, and fewer of those use cases making sense them selves.
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 9:22:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Zephri]
[#6]
I went with water cooling purely because of space constraints in my m atx case. Now that's it's downstairs living with the plex server with a fiber connection ran to the room for the monitor and usb the next build will just be a atx case and whatever components I need and no real theme, air cooled next time too. It's nice being able to just keep the fans at 100 percent and not hear anything in the room and it's also nice to not have all that heat in the room.
 
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Posted: 5/9/2024 9:39:45 PM EDT
[#7]
My computer I built 2 years ago has an AIO cooler for the CPU. It works really well and is very quiet.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 9:44:33 PM EDT
[#8]
My gaming/machine learning development machine is liquid cooled. It isn’t a magic fix, but when correctly implemented it’s astonishingly effective
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Posted: 5/9/2024 9:48:55 PM EDT
[#9]
Its not really the latest thing. I know we saw systems for it at frys like 20 years ago.
It's generally not all that much better for the effort. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 10:05:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By noob5000000: My understanding is that for home computing it's mostly just a flex/enthusiast thing; a properly sized air cooler would do fine cooling-wise. Pretty much really. Oh, if you want to overclock things then water cooling helps but air cooling works fine for most computers. My current PC has water cooling because I was going to play around a bit with overclocking it. But I realized that there wasn't any real point for the stuff I do with a PC. But, my water cooling setup is quieter than my last air cooled setup, so there is that. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 10:09:30 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 5/9/2024 10:13:28 PM EDT
[#12]
I installed a closed loop CPU cooler in 2016. Still works great.
Cool & quiet |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 10:18:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thuban: Pretty much really. Oh, if you want to overclock things then water cooling helps but air cooling works fine for most computers. My current PC has water cooling because I was going to play around a bit with overclocking it. But I realized that there wasn't any real point for the stuff I do with a PC. But, my water cooling setup is quieter than my last air cooled setup, so there is that. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Thuban: Originally Posted By noob5000000: My understanding is that for home computing it's mostly just a flex/enthusiast thing; a properly sized air cooler would do fine cooling-wise. Pretty much really. Oh, if you want to overclock things then water cooling helps but air cooling works fine for most computers. My current PC has water cooling because I was going to play around a bit with overclocking it. But I realized that there wasn't any real point for the stuff I do with a PC. But, my water cooling setup is quieter than my last air cooled setup, so there is that. There is a lot less room to overclock now than there used to be. Most high-end chips are close out of the box to their stable max and motherboards now have one button OC that might get you another 100-200mhz. The days of OC'ing to get a significant performance bump are long gone. Fans are another area that has made significant improvements. I have be quiet fans in my system and they are amazing compared to what was common 10-15 years ago. Fan tuning is also light years ahead of it was during the old days. My EVGA 3070 can ramp up pretty high in fan speed and it's barely audible to me. I had an ASUS 660ti a long time ago that was a noisy bastard 
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 10:20:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By peacematu: Something I noticed not too long ago is there are computers that are liquid cooled. Like a car, there are tubes/pathways (for lack of better terms) the liquid goes through to cool the computer. I don't know whether most people know there are such computers. I don't really keep up with the latest computers. I'm familiar with antifreeze for cars but have no idea what kind of liquid goes through a computer. Does anyone know? Computers? High end phones use it these days Samsung's Galaxy S23 and S24 Ultra phones use vapor chamber cooling, which involves a liquid that absorbs heat from the phone and turns into vapor. The vapor then travels to a cooler area to condense back into liquid, which returns to the phone to start the process again. The excess heat that's left over when the liquid condenses is then dissipated away from the phone, preventing it from overheating. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 10:30:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: _Redacted_]
[#15]
It's getting to the point in enterprise/research compute space that you can't get the highest power equipment on air. Trouble is, while there are standalone racks that are liquid cooled, most facilities don't have the infrastructure to support a fully liquid rack space.
Budgets being what they are, no one program is able to build out their labs/rack rooms for liquid. But when they do spend their budget dollars on the stuff they want, they realize that they can't get the density or combined equipment (high TDP GPUs and high TDP processors) in the same box...so they have to make concessions. You think it's bad now, look at what Nvidia has looming for the datacenter. AMD is no different, MI300X plus a few high TDP EPYC is spicy. Intel is there with Max procs and GPUs, as well as Gaudi3. Hell if the cooling requirements don't get you, the power requirements will. Granted it's usually a lot easier to upgrade your electrical, but battery backup options struggle to keep up too. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 10:56:29 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: Or else what? I've got some that haven't been cleaned in 6yr. I can still peg the cpu at 100% on all cores and it'll sit at 55C all day long. I guess depending on your specs that might be possible. But with my testing and benchmarking (mostly high end i7 and i9 CPUs), 240mm AIO coolers will not hold them at 55ºC 'all day long' under stress testing (prime95). So I have a hard time believing your numbers unless you're running a lower end CPU or you have a 360mm or 480mm AIO cooler. Or maybe your ambient temps are REALLY low. I do my testing in my basement with a normal ambient temperature around 18ºC. So, if you have an off the shelf 240mm AIO that will hold a decent CPU at 55ºC 'all day long' under stress testing, you Sir, have a unicorn of a cooler. I would love to see screenshots of your specs and temp graphs under stress testing. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:00:17 PM EDT
[#17]
You don't need it "if you don't know". Not being elitist. It's really just cleans up the look of a glass sided PC case. Helps squeeze some more performance out a CPU or GPU.
But it doesn't solve ANY drawbacks of a standard high performance CPU cooler. Dust & dirt build up is the biggest issue in cooling, and guess what, that liquid cooled loop, goes to a heat exchanger full of fins that collect dust also. If you aren't going to looks or squeezing out another 100mhz, no need. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:01:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BabaYaga22]
[#18]
Just ordered a new PC. i9 14900F with 240mm liquid cooling. Going to be used primarily for gaming. My brother has been using liquid cooling for about 10 years now for his gaming setups.
Specs: i9 14900F 4070TI Super 32 gb DDR5 RAM 1000w Platinum rated PSU 1 tb M.2 SSD |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:02:34 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bourbonator: It's not niche. It's been mainstream for decades. I built my first water cooled computer almost 25 year ago. You've been able to buy OEM liquid cooled computers for at least a decade if not 15 years. ETA - I was always curious about the completely submerged, actively cooled computers. They were running at full load at like 60°F, ~20 years ago. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bourbonator: Originally Posted By BobRoberts: Mineral spirits. It’s really a niche thing that gamers have picked up. It's not niche. It's been mainstream for decades. I built my first water cooled computer almost 25 year ago. You've been able to buy OEM liquid cooled computers for at least a decade if not 15 years. ETA - I was always curious about the completely submerged, actively cooled computers. They were running at full load at like 60°F, ~20 years ago. My nerd side has wanted to build a media PC submerged in mineral spirits just to set next to the TV for shits and giggles. It be even cooler if I could squeeze a gold fish bowl into it. FYI, fans in everything will die in weeks or months. The viscosity and density of the liquid is far more than any fan is designed for. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:05:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shblackdragon: Computers? High end phones use it these days Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By shblackdragon: Originally Posted By peacematu: Something I noticed not too long ago is there are computers that are liquid cooled. Like a car, there are tubes/pathways (for lack of better terms) the liquid goes through to cool the computer. I don't know whether most people know there are such computers. I don't really keep up with the latest computers. I'm familiar with antifreeze for cars but have no idea what kind of liquid goes through a computer. Does anyone know? Computers? High end phones use it these days Samsung's Galaxy S23 and S24 Ultra phones use vapor chamber cooling, which involves a liquid that absorbs heat from the phone and turns into vapor. The vapor then travels to a cooler area to condense back into liquid, which returns to the phone to start the process again. The excess heat that's left over when the liquid condenses is then dissipated away from the phone, preventing it from overheating. That is not water cooling. Air coolers like Noctua use vapor chambers but are considered air coolers. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:13:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Here is my current build, built for gaming but not lot of that going on atm.
3x 360 rads, direct die cpu, and gpu block. 
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:28:46 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm running a 2 fan, 240mm aio cooler for my Ryzen 5 5600X. It really keeps the CPU at a better temp, around 60c even when playing something that is high horsepower like Star Citizen.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:31:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GDaawg]
[#23]
Mountain Dew is the cpu coolant for serious gamers.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:32:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: That is not water cooling. Air coolers like Noctua use vapor chambers but are considered air coolers. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rebel31: Originally Posted By shblackdragon: Originally Posted By peacematu: Something I noticed not too long ago is there are computers that are liquid cooled. Like a car, there are tubes/pathways (for lack of better terms) the liquid goes through to cool the computer. I don't know whether most people know there are such computers. I don't really keep up with the latest computers. I'm familiar with antifreeze for cars but have no idea what kind of liquid goes through a computer. Does anyone know? Computers? High end phones use it these days Samsung's Galaxy S23 and S24 Ultra phones use vapor chamber cooling, which involves a liquid that absorbs heat from the phone and turns into vapor. The vapor then travels to a cooler area to condense back into liquid, which returns to the phone to start the process again. The excess heat that's left over when the liquid condenses is then dissipated away from the phone, preventing it from overheating. That is not water cooling. Air coolers like Noctua use vapor chambers but are considered air coolers. Yeah, vapor chambers are more akin to a heat spreader that uses phase change principles like a heatpipe. |
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Posted: 5/9/2024 11:55:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: freeride21a]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zephri: I went with water cooling purely because of space constraints in my m atx case. Now that's it's downstairs living with the plex server with a fiber connection ran to the room for the monitor and usb the next build will just be a atx case and whatever components I need and no real theme, air cooled next time too. It's nice being able to just keep the fans at 100 percent and not hear anything in the room and it's also nice to not have all that heat in the room. https://i.ibb.co/HxrVG0y/20240509-210803.jpg https://i.ibb.co/qJx33mh/20240509-210901.jpg I just built my wholly mediocre middle of the road all air cooled am5 in that asus case.. that case looks soo awesome.  Attached File |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 12:40:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Zephri]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By freeride21a: I just built my wholly mediocre middle of the road all air cooled am5 in that asus case.. that case looks soo awesome. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/newpcnewroom_jpg-3210101.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By freeride21a: Originally Posted By Zephri: I went with water cooling purely because of space constraints in my m atx case. Now that's it's downstairs living with the plex server with a fiber connection ran to the room for the monitor and usb the next build will just be a atx case and whatever components I need and no real theme, air cooled next time too. It's nice being able to just keep the fans at 100 percent and not hear anything in the room and it's also nice to not have all that heat in the room. https://i.ibb.co/HxrVG0y/20240509-210803.jpg https://i.ibb.co/qJx33mh/20240509-210901.jpg I just built my wholly mediocre middle of the road all air cooled am5 in that asus case.. that case looks soo awesome. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/newpcnewroom_jpg-3210101.JPG Looks like a nice build to me, I saw your post on one of the other computer threads and thought it was cool someone else made a build with that case. I bought the Asus case the first time I was in the new Microcenter after I got to handle it and saw the price, I also opted for the mesh side panel and covered up all my cable management since I wanted the airflow They're very nice cases for the price. My last build was a amd build in a tiny nr200 case, that case shockingly swallowed the entire 7900xtx card that replaced my 1070.  |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 1:06:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: freeride21a]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zephri: Looks like a nice build to me, I saw your post on one of the other computer threads and thought it was cool someone else made a build with that case. I bought the Asus case the first time I was in the new Microcenter after I got to handle it and saw the price, I also opted for the mesh side panel and covered up all my cable management since I wanted the airflow They're very nice cases for the price. My last build was a amd build in a tiny nr200 case, that case shockingly swallowed the entire 7900xtx card that replaced my 1070. https://i.ibb.co/dWMkdZz/nr200xtx.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zephri: Originally Posted By freeride21a: Originally Posted By Zephri: I went with water cooling purely because of space constraints in my m atx case. Now that's it's downstairs living with the plex server with a fiber connection ran to the room for the monitor and usb the next build will just be a atx case and whatever components I need and no real theme, air cooled next time too. It's nice being able to just keep the fans at 100 percent and not hear anything in the room and it's also nice to not have all that heat in the room. https://i.ibb.co/HxrVG0y/20240509-210803.jpg https://i.ibb.co/qJx33mh/20240509-210901.jpg I just built my wholly mediocre middle of the road all air cooled am5 in that asus case.. that case looks soo awesome. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/newpcnewroom_jpg-3210101.JPG Looks like a nice build to me, I saw your post on one of the other computer threads and thought it was cool someone else made a build with that case. I bought the Asus case the first time I was in the new Microcenter after I got to handle it and saw the price, I also opted for the mesh side panel and covered up all my cable management since I wanted the airflow They're very nice cases for the price. My last build was a amd build in a tiny nr200 case, that case shockingly swallowed the entire 7900xtx card that replaced my 1070. https://i.ibb.co/dWMkdZz/nr200xtx.jpg I had a GTX 960 in it for a min, I replaced it a week ago with the Intel ARC A770 16GB That is awesome! I tried to go ITX, but the ITX mobo's were more than I had budgeted. I did like 7 pc part picker mock builds before landing on this one, including an ITX or two attempts... I really wanted to use the Fractal Designs Terra in Sage for the ITX.  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 1:13:20 AM EDT
[#28]
My last PC was water cooled with a turnkey all in one system. About 12 year old build.
My current system is not. I bought a quality cpu heatsink cooler and made smart fan layout and style choices for the chassis. It's overall cooler and a bazillion times quieter. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 1:26:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eclark53520: . So...anything less than a 360mm AIO cooler is mostly for show. That’s patently false. 240mms still beat the vast majority of tower coolers. 120mms OTOH, have proven to be less effective vs their tower counterparts. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 1:37:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Zephri]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By freeride21a: I had a GTX 960 in it for a min, I replaced it a week ago with the Intel ARC A770 16GB That is awesome! I tried to go ITX, but the ITX mobo's were more than I had budgeted. I did like 7 pc part picker mock builds before landing on this one, including an ITX or two attempts... I really wanted to use the Fractal Designs Terra in Sage for the ITX. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/Screenshot_2024-05-09_220232_jpg-3210138.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/fd-terra-all-large_jpg-3210140.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By freeride21a: Originally Posted By Zephri: Originally Posted By freeride21a: Originally Posted By Zephri: I went with water cooling purely because of space constraints in my m atx case. Now that's it's downstairs living with the plex server with a fiber connection ran to the room for the monitor and usb the next build will just be a atx case and whatever components I need and no real theme, air cooled next time too. It's nice being able to just keep the fans at 100 percent and not hear anything in the room and it's also nice to not have all that heat in the room. https://i.ibb.co/HxrVG0y/20240509-210803.jpg https://i.ibb.co/qJx33mh/20240509-210901.jpg I just built my wholly mediocre middle of the road all air cooled am5 in that asus case.. that case looks soo awesome. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/newpcnewroom_jpg-3210101.JPG Looks like a nice build to me, I saw your post on one of the other computer threads and thought it was cool someone else made a build with that case. I bought the Asus case the first time I was in the new Microcenter after I got to handle it and saw the price, I also opted for the mesh side panel and covered up all my cable management since I wanted the airflow They're very nice cases for the price. My last build was a amd build in a tiny nr200 case, that case shockingly swallowed the entire 7900xtx card that replaced my 1070. https://i.ibb.co/dWMkdZz/nr200xtx.jpg I had a GTX 960 in it for a min, I replaced it a week ago with the Intel ARC A770 16GB That is awesome! I tried to go ITX, but the ITX mobo's were more than I had budgeted. I did like 7 pc part picker mock builds before landing on this one, including an ITX or two attempts... I really wanted to use the Fractal Designs Terra in Sage for the ITX. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/Screenshot_2024-05-09_220232_jpg-3210138.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/fd-terra-all-large_jpg-3210140.JPG Yeah ITX is cool but the boards are horrifically expensive as you mentioned for generally less features, cable and thermal management can be a pain as is parts comparability fit wise. That tiny case even though it was all mesh struggled in the thermal department especially so when I crammed that giant card in. For the price of one of those boards you could almost get a bundle deal with Microcenter with a decent mobo ram and a processor for about the same price, in the AMD and Intel flavor. Those Fractal Terra's are really sharp looking, I really wanted to do a Fractal North but the case didn't fit into my size/budget restrictions I tend to keep the case budget around 100 and I wanted an all mesh case as well. How do you like that Arc card? |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 1:46:33 AM EDT
[#31]
My boys each built several gaming PCs -- almost a decade ago -- that were water-cooled.
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Posted: 5/10/2024 1:57:42 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zephri: Yeah ITX is cool but the boards are horrifically expensive as you mentioned for generally less features, cable and thermal management can be a pain as is parts comparability fit wise. That tiny case even though it was all mesh struggled in the thermal department especially so when I crammed that giant card in. For the price of one of those boards you could almost get a bundle deal with Microcenter with a decent mobo ram and a processor for about the same price, in the AMD and Intel flavor. Those Fractal Terra's are really sharp looking, I really wanted to do a Fractal North but the case didn't fit into my size/budget restrictions I tend to keep the case budget around 100 and I wanted an all mesh case as well. How do you like that Arc card? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Zephri: Originally Posted By freeride21a: Originally Posted By Zephri: Originally Posted By freeride21a: Originally Posted By Zephri: I went with water cooling purely because of space constraints in my m atx case. Now that's it's downstairs living with the plex server with a fiber connection ran to the room for the monitor and usb the next build will just be a atx case and whatever components I need and no real theme, air cooled next time too. It's nice being able to just keep the fans at 100 percent and not hear anything in the room and it's also nice to not have all that heat in the room. https://i.ibb.co/HxrVG0y/20240509-210803.jpg https://i.ibb.co/qJx33mh/20240509-210901.jpg I just built my wholly mediocre middle of the road all air cooled am5 in that asus case.. that case looks soo awesome. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/newpcnewroom_jpg-3210101.JPG Looks like a nice build to me, I saw your post on one of the other computer threads and thought it was cool someone else made a build with that case. I bought the Asus case the first time I was in the new Microcenter after I got to handle it and saw the price, I also opted for the mesh side panel and covered up all my cable management since I wanted the airflow They're very nice cases for the price. My last build was a amd build in a tiny nr200 case, that case shockingly swallowed the entire 7900xtx card that replaced my 1070. https://i.ibb.co/dWMkdZz/nr200xtx.jpg I had a GTX 960 in it for a min, I replaced it a week ago with the Intel ARC A770 16GB That is awesome! I tried to go ITX, but the ITX mobo's were more than I had budgeted. I did like 7 pc part picker mock builds before landing on this one, including an ITX or two attempts... I really wanted to use the Fractal Designs Terra in Sage for the ITX. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/Screenshot_2024-05-09_220232_jpg-3210138.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/21179/fd-terra-all-large_jpg-3210140.JPG Yeah ITX is cool but the boards are horrifically expensive as you mentioned for generally less features, cable and thermal management can be a pain as is parts comparability fit wise. That tiny case even though it was all mesh struggled in the thermal department especially so when I crammed that giant card in. For the price of one of those boards you could almost get a bundle deal with Microcenter with a decent mobo ram and a processor for about the same price, in the AMD and Intel flavor. Those Fractal Terra's are really sharp looking, I really wanted to do a Fractal North but the case didn't fit into my size/budget restrictions I tend to keep the case budget around 100 and I wanted an all mesh case as well. How do you like that Arc card? Cant complain yet... 300 for 16gb card that so far plays everything i play at 3440x1440... nothing new lol. Each driver release makes it better and better. Truthfully I invested my little part in intel staying in the game to benefit the future GPU market. I plan on installing MSFS2020 and then MSFS2024.. that should push it. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 2:01:55 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By freeride21a: Cant complain yet... 300 for 16gb card that so far plays everything i play at 3440x1440... nothing new lol. Each driver release makes it better and better. Truthfully I invested my little part in intel staying in the game to benefit the future GPU market. I plan on installing MSFS2020 and then MSFS2024.. that should push it. Yeah the GPU market desperately needed some other competition. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 9:11:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: giantpune]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eclark53520: I guess depending on your specs that might be possible. But with my testing and benchmarking (mostly high end i7 and i9 CPUs), 240mm AIO coolers will not hold them at 55ºC 'all day long' under stress testing (prime95). So I have a hard time believing your numbers unless you're running a lower end CPU or you have a 360mm or 480mm AIO cooler. Or maybe your ambient temps are REALLY low. I do my testing in my basement with a normal ambient temperature around 18ºC. So, if you have an off the shelf 240mm AIO that will hold a decent CPU at 55ºC 'all day long' under stress testing, you Sir, have a unicorn of a cooler. I would love to see screenshots of your specs and temp graphs under stress testing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eclark53520: I guess depending on your specs that might be possible. But with my testing and benchmarking (mostly high end i7 and i9 CPUs), 240mm AIO coolers will not hold them at 55ºC 'all day long' under stress testing (prime95). So I have a hard time believing your numbers unless you're running a lower end CPU or you have a 360mm or 480mm AIO cooler. Or maybe your ambient temps are REALLY low. I do my testing in my basement with a normal ambient temperature around 18ºC. So, if you have an off the shelf 240mm AIO that will hold a decent CPU at 55ºC 'all day long' under stress testing, you Sir, have a unicorn of a cooler. I would love to see screenshots of your specs and temp graphs under stress testing. Here's one of the workhorses. Its some 6 core i7, with hyper threading shows 12 cores. 240mm AIO cooler. This is it doing real work, compiling software and making money. Not running some useless benchmark to impress strangers on the internet. Its hanging out around 50-60C, with the fans barely moving. I could go in and crank the fans up to max just to prove a point. Nothing in the computer have been opened or cleaned or disassembled since it was built. Some of y'all are not in touch with how things really work.   Originally Posted By AEROMechanic: That’s patently false. 240mms still beat the vast majority of tower coolers. This was our experience, too. With even a nice upgraded non-liquid cooled cooler, they were not able to keep up. Within 10-30 mins of compiling, the CPU would reach 100C and throttle itself. Even on a 4 core desktop i7, they couldn't keep up with the demand. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 9:21:10 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: Here's one of the workhorses. Its some 6 core i7, with hyper threading shows 12 cores. 240mm AIO cooler. This is it doing real work, compiling software and making money. Not running some useless benchmark to impress strangers on the internet. Its hanging out around 50-60C, with the fans barely moving. I could go in and crank the fans up to max just to prove a point. Nothing in the computer have been opened or cleaned or disassembled since it was built. Some of y'all are not in touch with how things really work. https://iili.io/J4ZSRTP.png https://iili.io/J4ZUHoF.png Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: Originally Posted By eclark53520: I guess depending on your specs that might be possible. But with my testing and benchmarking (mostly high end i7 and i9 CPUs), 240mm AIO coolers will not hold them at 55ºC 'all day long' under stress testing (prime95). So I have a hard time believing your numbers unless you're running a lower end CPU or you have a 360mm or 480mm AIO cooler. Or maybe your ambient temps are REALLY low. I do my testing in my basement with a normal ambient temperature around 18ºC. So, if you have an off the shelf 240mm AIO that will hold a decent CPU at 55ºC 'all day long' under stress testing, you Sir, have a unicorn of a cooler. I would love to see screenshots of your specs and temp graphs under stress testing. Here's one of the workhorses. Its some 6 core i7, with hyper threading shows 12 cores. 240mm AIO cooler. This is it doing real work, compiling software and making money. Not running some useless benchmark to impress strangers on the internet. Its hanging out around 50-60C, with the fans barely moving. I could go in and crank the fans up to max just to prove a point. Nothing in the computer have been opened or cleaned or disassembled since it was built. Some of y'all are not in touch with how things really work. https://iili.io/J4ZSRTP.png https://iili.io/J4ZUHoF.png CPU temperature depends on load, voltage, TDP, contact between die and IHS, contact between IHS and cooler cold plate, type of cooler, etc. I could show you a graph of my 12900K cooled by an EK Delta Tec EVO, cooled by a MO-RA3 420 Pro, running at 80C under load. I could drop vcore and show you a graph at 40C under load. Comparisons are meaningless unless you control all the variables. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 9:25:04 AM EDT
[#36]
I built my top of the line 6 years ago Intel-based desktop with liquid cooling. It's still my main desktop and the main benefit has been that it is very quiet compared to an air-cooled system, with similar power requirements for the CPU.
In my business life, well, you can air cool an Nvidia Grace Hopper, but with a TDW of up to 1000 watts, and the standard rack tray being 8 processors, the cool kids are going with two-phase direct-to-chip liquid cooling. Though my buddies at Green Revolution Cooling will tell you that full immersion is the future for these workloads. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 9:25:26 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eurotrash: CPU temperature depends on load, voltage, TDP, contact between die and IHS, contact between IHS and cooler cold plate, type of cooler, etc. I could show you a graph of my 12900K cooled by an EK Delta Tec EVO, cooled by a MO-RA3 420 Pro, running at 80C under load. I could drop vcore and show you a graph at 40C under load. Comparisons are meaningless unless you control all the variables. AintNobodyGotTimeFoDat.gif. I made my statement. You called BS and asked for screenshots. I provided screenshots. Now you're moving the goalposts and I really don't care to play that game. I stand by all my original statements. These 240mm coolers kick the shit out of traditional coolers. I can, and do run my CPUs at 100% all day and they stay cool. These are real CPUs, not some celeron or ARM chip. And I do not have to take the coolers apart for any sort of cleaning. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:10:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: eurotrash]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: AintNobodyGotTimeFoDat.gif. I made my statement. You called BS and asked for screenshots. I provided screenshots. Now you're moving the goalposts and I really don't care to play that game. I stand by all my original statements. These 240mm coolers kick the shit out of traditional coolers. I can, and do run my CPUs at 100% all day and they stay cool. These are real CPUs, not some celeron or ARM chip. And I do not have to take the coolers apart for any sort of cleaning. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By giantpune: Originally Posted By eurotrash: CPU temperature depends on load, voltage, TDP, contact between die and IHS, contact between IHS and cooler cold plate, type of cooler, etc. I could show you a graph of my 12900K cooled by an EK Delta Tec EVO, cooled by a MO-RA3 420 Pro, running at 80C under load. I could drop vcore and show you a graph at 40C under load. Comparisons are meaningless unless you control all the variables. AintNobodyGotTimeFoDat.gif. I made my statement. You called BS and asked for screenshots. I provided screenshots. Now you're moving the goalposts and I really don't care to play that game. I stand by all my original statements. These 240mm coolers kick the shit out of traditional coolers. I can, and do run my CPUs at 100% all day and they stay cool. These are real CPUs, not some celeron or ARM chip. And I do not have to take the coolers apart for any sort of cleaning. I don’t remember asking for screen shots. Also, there is nothing surprising about your results. Water cooling just adds extra cooling capacity and won’t necessarily impact temperatures. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:14:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eurotrash: I don’t remember asking for screen shots. Also, there is nothing surprising about your results. Water cooling just adds extra cooling capacity and won’t necessarily impact temperatures. Sorry, screenshots were for eclark53520. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:17:11 AM EDT
[#40]
I used a simple AIO for my CPU on this one. I've since upgraded the video card, but haven't decided if I'll do something with it yet.
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:20:33 AM EDT
[#41]
There's very little advantage to liquid cooling. It's expensive and unless you're overclocking, there's nothing to gain. Plus you risk a leak ruining your rig.
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:21:40 AM EDT
[#42]
I've used AIOs now since Haswell. My current setup is a 420mm Corsair AIO on my 13900k.
I agree that in the personal computing arena it used to be basically a flex, but now the high end CPUs (especially from Intel) really need a large capacity AIO or a custom loop to be use to their full potential. Pic of my current machine in the middle of the build, but shows the radiator in the front of the case fairly well. 
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:30:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11boomboom]
[#43]
I used a Corsair H100x RGB Elite AIO on this for a little while, but it didn't match the performance I was getting with the dual tower. I'm running an overclocked 12600K in there and the AIO was 5-8 degrees hotter doing tests on Cinebench.
The problem I have is the Corsair 1200w PSU fan is at max speed most of the time (I've tried flipping it and it doesn't work).  Attached File(Yes I know it's dirty lol) |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:33:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Real_PhillBert: I've used AIOs now since Haswell. My current setup is a 420mm Corsair AIO on my 13900k. I agree that in the personal computing arena it used to be basically a flex, but now the high end CPUs (especially from Intel) really need a large capacity AIO or a custom loop to be use to their full potential. Pic of my current machine in the middle of the build, but shows the radiator in the front of the case fairly well. https://i.postimg.cc/3JWMs3RW/20230303-150728-1.jpg 100% agree. I have the same 420mm Corsair on a 13900k FWIW. It used to be a flex or just for fun, but Intel's thermals are no joke these days. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:33:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: eclark53520]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eurotrash: I don’t remember asking for screen shots. Also, there is nothing surprising about your results. Water cooling just adds extra cooling capacity and won’t necessarily impact temperatures. I asked for screenshots, he's getting us confused. Because I've done my own testing and never seen a modern high end Intel CPU hold those temps at stock specs on 240mm coolers that I have tested personally. So I was interested in what CPU running at what frequencies and voltages...as well as the temperature graphs which he did provide. Without the other information though, those graphs aren't very useful. I also agree with your previous statements that, sure, I could get any CPU to run at those temps if I configure them to not run at full capacity...but why? Also, the whole point of running something like Prime95 isn't to 'show off for people on the internet' it's to have a repeatable benchmark to compare hardware. If you can't repeat the workload, the testing is invalid. It's how I came to the conclusion 240mm coolers and a Noctua D15 cooler are about on par with each other and the Noctua is usually quieter than the AIOs. I ran back to back tests controlling for everything I could. EDIT: I'm not the only person to have done this. There are videos on YouTube describing exactly what I found in my testing as well. I wish I would have documented my findings when I did it. However, I just had a bunch of stuff at one time and it was interesting to test them back to back. I was surprised as hell to find out the air cooler was keeping up with the water coolers. I thought for sure they would bury it. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:36:54 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eclark53520: People should go look at some benchmarks. A lot of people saying AIO coolers are quieter are simply wrong. Unless you're only comparing them to stock coolers or cheap junk coolers. A Noctua D15 will perform on par with and even beat some of the 240mm AIO coolers while being objectively quieter in the process. Blowing dust out of an air cooler is easier than disassembling a water cooler to blow it out. Even if you do a pull configuration blowing the dust into the rad isn't great so you should remove the radiator and fans and blow it out. Unless you're buying a 360mm+ AIO cooler, you're not really gaining anything over a quality air cooler like the D15 other than the ability to brag to your buddies that your computer is 'water cooled'. Back in 2020 I grabbed an RTX 3090 FTW3 with air cooler from EVGA. Once their AIO kit was released, I added it to my 3090. The decrease in noise and GPU temp was substantial. I don't really understand where you're coming from TBH. That's just one example. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:40:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: eclark53520]
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dam17er: Back in 2020 I grabbed an RTX 3090 FTW3 with air cooler from EVGA. Once their AIO kit was released, I added it to my 3090. The decrease in noise and GPU temp was substantial. I don't really understand where you're coming from TBH. That's just one example. I'm specifically talking about high end CPU coolers (mainly Noctua coolers) and off the shelf AIO CPU coolers. There are tests out there showing that Noctua air coolers are quieter than AIO coolers using proper equipment to read sound levels. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass or talking about my specific rig. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:42:42 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eclark53520: I'm specifically talking about high end CPU coolers (mainly Noctua coolers) and off the shelf AIO CPU coolers. There are tests out there showing that Noctua air coolers are quieter than AIO coolers using proper equipment to read sound levels. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass or talking about my specific rig. In my limited experience, the Thermalright Peerless Assassins are equal with the Noctua and half the price. That's what I'm using in my builds, currently. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:47:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: eclark53520]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11boomboom: In my limited experience, the Thermalright Peerless Assassins are equal with the Noctua and half the price. That's what I'm using in my builds, currently. There are definitely other coolers out there that will match or even beat the Noctua's on price/performance ratio for sure. I refer to them specifically because they're the most well known (usually) and their performance is consistent. I've used a few in the past. Not that one specifically though. Plus, very few fans out there are as good as the Noctua fans. Which is why I stick to Noctua, generally. |
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Posted: 5/10/2024 10:48:14 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eclark53520: I'm specifically talking about high end CPU coolers (mainly Noctua coolers) and off the shelf AIO CPU coolers. There are tests out there showing that Noctua air coolers are quieter than AIO coolers using proper equipment to read sound levels. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass or talking about my specific rig. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By eclark53520: Originally Posted By Dam17er: Back in 2020 I grabbed an RTX 3090 FTW3 with air cooler from EVGA. Once their AIO kit was released, I added it to my 3090. The decrease in noise and GPU temp was substantial. I don't really understand where you're coming from TBH. That's just one example. I'm specifically talking about high end CPU coolers (mainly Noctua coolers) and off the shelf AIO CPU coolers. There are tests out there showing that Noctua air coolers are quieter than AIO coolers using proper equipment to read sound levels. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass or talking about my specific rig. When I built my current system back in late 2022, the consensus was that the 13900k really needed at least a 360mm radiator with 420mm being recommended, and air cooling wasn't really sufficient for enthusiasts. I never put an air cooler on this CPU, so I don't have a direct A/B comparison. |
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