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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:12:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: evnash]
This has been a hot topic around here for awhile. lots of protests and marches and justice for signs in local shops and peoples yard. Officer was fired and charged with wrongful death. lots of people were saying he only had a light.
local news story article with footage dead guy threatens tow truck driver with a pistol. Driver calls LEO and they sneak up to his house. Tow truck returns and Dead guy come running into his yard with pistol and attached weapon light, cops tell him to drop the gun and he swings and points it at them. They are going to argue the cop give him time to drop the gun. however, i can see it from the cops POV. Call with an armed suspect threatening and then he shows up and points his gun at you....good shoot? mag dump excessive once the perp is down? |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:19:43 PM EDT
[#1]
The answer is to ban weapon lights.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:24:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Was it ever determined if he was actually behind on his car payment or not?
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:31:26 PM EDT
[#3]
was the repo guy getting the correct vehicle?
what policies were violated (according to the chief)? From the video, the shooting appears justified (absent the answer to the above questions) |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:39:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Morgan321]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: was the repo guy getting the correct vehicle? what policies were violated (according to the chief)? From the video, the shooting appears justified (absent the answer to the above questions) All been covered here before: Dead guy's family says the car was paid up. Difference is if the bank or repoman made a mistake they might share some liability. Repo is a civil matter and cops aren't supposed to help. Since they can't "help" they parked their cars around the corner and laid in wait (hidden from view) for the guy rather than simply park a patrol car in front of the house with the lights on so he knew cops were there. If he pointed the gun at the repoman the actual shooting might be justified, but the cops should not have never been there in the first place. Repo man was chased off earlier in the night by the guy and he should not have returned. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:41:00 PM EDT
[#5]
That was an ambush and mag dumping the guy after he was down is really bad. Bad shoot
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:44:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 10mmillie: That was an ambush and mag dumping the guy after he was down is really bad. Bad shoot Can cops “ambush” someone when trying to arrest them after they committed a crime? |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:46:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: All been covered here before: Dead guy's family says the car was paid up. Difference is if the bank or repoman made a mistake they might share some liability. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: All been covered here before: Dead guy's family says the car was paid up. Difference is if the bank or repoman made a mistake they might share some liability. So was the repossession valid or not? Repo is a civil matter and cops aren't supposed to help. Since they can't "help" they parked their cars around the corner and laid in wait (hidden from view) for the guy rather than simply park a patrol car in front of the house with the lights on so he knew cops were there. If he pointed the gun at the repoman the actual shooting might be justified, but the cops should not have never been there in the first place. Repo man was chased off earlier in the night by the guy and he should not have returned. I dont see it as helping with a repo, if the repossession was legit, rather trying to arrest the truck owner for assault. I hadnt heard anything about this before so I'm basing my opinion off of the two links and footage. Is there some kind of limit in AL on how many times a day a repo guy can try to get a vehicle? |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:47:02 PM EDT
[#8]
The debtor had every opportunity in the world to NOT commit aggravated assault against the driver. He also had every opportunity in the world to go back to bed, all pissed off, but alive.
The fact that he failed to avail himself of those opportunities is on him, not the cops or the tow truck driver. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 12:58:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: WUPHF]
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: All been covered here before: Dead guy's family says the car was paid up. Difference is if the bank or repoman made a mistake they might share some liability. Repo is a civil matter and cops aren't supposed to help. Since they can't "help" they parked their cars around the corner and laid in wait (hidden from view) for the guy rather than simply park a patrol car in front of the house with the lights on so he knew cops were there. If he pointed the gun at the repoman the actual shooting might be justified, but the cops should not have never been there in the first place. Repo man was chased off earlier in the night by the guy and he should not have returned. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: Originally Posted By NCPatrolAR: was the repo guy getting the correct vehicle? what policies were violated (according to the chief)? From the video, the shooting appears justified (absent the answer to the above questions) All been covered here before: Dead guy's family says the car was paid up. Difference is if the bank or repoman made a mistake they might share some liability. Repo is a civil matter and cops aren't supposed to help. Since they can't "help" they parked their cars around the corner and laid in wait (hidden from view) for the guy rather than simply park a patrol car in front of the house with the lights on so he knew cops were there. If he pointed the gun at the repoman the actual shooting might be justified, but the cops should not have never been there in the first place. Repo man was chased off earlier in the night by the guy and he should not have returned. If the synopsis of events posted here is accurate, I’m struggling to see how this would be helping with repossession. Repo guy was collecting property based on a valid repossession order and had a gun pulled on him. Cops are responding because dude was armed and used his weapon to commit a crime against someone who was performing a lawful activity. They’re not responding to help the repo guy get the car. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:01:56 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: I dont see it as helping with a repo, if the repossession was legit, rather trying to arrest the truck owner for assault. This is pretty much where I'm at, too. The cops were there because the man threatened the driver with a gun, and he had good reason to believe he would do it again. As far as the police are concerned, I don't think it should make a difference if the debtor was paid up or not. As long as the repo man had the proper documentation for that vehicle, the police were just there to make sure he was safe while doing his job. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:03:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Morgan321: All been covered here before: Dead guy's family says the car was paid up. Difference is if the bank or repoman made a mistake they might share some liability. Repo is a civil matter and cops aren't supposed to help. Since they can't "help" they parked their cars around the corner and laid in wait (hidden from view) for the guy rather than simply park a patrol car in front of the house with the lights on so he knew cops were there. If he pointed the gun at the repoman the actual shooting might be justified, but the cops should not have never been there in the first place. Repo man was chased off earlier in the night by the guy and he should not have returned. And if when the cops pulled up with light on, the guy who just committed ag assault came out blasting would you then say “they should have tactically approached” |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:04:19 PM EDT
[#12]
TF is "leaded bodycam footage"?
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:05:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Seems like the cops didn't give the guy a chance but then again threatening someone with a gun brings this kind of shit down on your head.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:06:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ledfingers: The answer is to ban weapon lights. I've heard that argued before. "Oh, so you have that bright light so you can blind people before you shoot them? You don't need a light on your gun." So I wouldn't be surprised to see that at some point in the future. 
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:09:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ledfingers: The answer is to ban weapon lights. Only for civilians tho. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:15:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bama_Rebel]
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WUPHF: If the synopsis of events posted here is accurate, I’m struggling to see how this would be helping with repossession. Repo guy was collecting property based on a valid repossession order and had a gun pulled on him. Cops are responding because dude was armed and used his weapon to commit a crime against someone who was performing a lawful activity. They’re not responding to help the repo guy get the car. then why did the repo guy go back with the cops? and try to repo the truck again. It was an ambush so they could murder the guy |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:21:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Lots wrong with this. All over a vehicle. If your paid up and in the right just let them take your rig you'll get it back.
But also the cops dont get to set up an ambush and murder you in your yard over a civil matter. They should have told the tow truck driver to stay away and pursued it in the daylight. Fucked up all the way around. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:26:19 PM EDT
[#18]
"kind of milk chocolate colored"
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:26:47 PM EDT
[#19]
Interesting the trigger was back on the Glock. Meaning it had been fired and jammed OR he was carrying with an empty chamber with the striker released.
Also I gotta cringe a bit at the NCSTAR weapon light. Those things will get you killed! |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:30:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Britt-dog: Lots wrong with this. All over a vehicle. If your paid up and in the right just let them take your rig you'll get it back. But also the cops dont get to set up an ambush and murder you in your yard over a civil matter. They should have told the tow truck driver to stay away and pursued it in the daylight. Fucked up all the way around. Pointing a pistol at someone isnt a civil matter. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:31:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Pointing a pistol at someone isnt a civil matter. Neither is stealing a car. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:32:38 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama_Rebel: then why did the repo guy go back with the cops? and try to repo the truck again. It was an ambush so they could murder the guy Yeah no. In this day and age, the last thing cops want to do is to shoot a black suspect. More like they were hoping that the guy would come out and when confronted, he'd simply give up and be taken into custody. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:33:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trails-end: Neither is stealing a car. is a valid repossession stealing? |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:33:40 PM EDT
[#24]
We told him that the NCStar weapon light was going to get him killed...
Jokes aside, the guy thought his truck was getting stolen, because "according to his family" it was paid up. I can understand coming out with a gun for that reason. I really don't think they gave him time to react, other than to swing the pistol at someone coming off the side of his house. Shitty situation. In my uneducated opinion, if cops are not allowed to help with repos, they should have done a knock and talk regarding his previous assault during the initial repo attempt. Dangerous? Sure, but no less than ambushing him in the dark, which it 100% was a planned ambush. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:37:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: is a valid repossession stealing? No. But if he was paid up, then his presumption is valid. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:37:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Did the dead guy call the police to report attempted theft of his vehicle?
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USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:39:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Steve Perkins you tricked me I didn't think it would be like it do but it was. I am of course not shocked guns had to be introduced in this situation, regardless of paid off status of the truck.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:40:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grey50beast: No. But if he was paid up, then his presumption is valid. and this is why I continue to ask if the repo order was valid. The family saying it was paid doesnt mean anything. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:41:28 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grey50beast: We told him that the NCStar weapon light was going to get him killed... Jokes aside, the guy thought his truck was getting stolen, because "according to his family" it was paid up. I can understand coming out with a gun for that reason. I really don't think they gave him time to react, other than to swing the pistol at someone coming off the side of his house. Shitty situation. In my uneducated opinion, if cops are not allowed to help with repos, they should have done a knock and talk regarding his previous assault during the initial repo attempt. Dangerous? Sure, but no less than ambushing him in the dark, which it 100% was a planned ambush. Is there a rash of repro trucks with flashing light stealing cars? |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:41:54 PM EDT
[#30]
A key takeaway in my line is never use deathly force to protect property
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:41:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Bama_Rebel]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Yeah no. In this day and age, the last thing cops want to do is to shoot a black suspect. More like they were hoping that the guy would come out and when confronted, he'd simply give up and be taken into custody. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By Bama_Rebel: then why did the repo guy go back with the cops? and try to repo the truck again. It was an ambush so they could murder the guy Yeah no. In this day and age, the last thing cops want to do is to shoot a black suspect. More like they were hoping that the guy would come out and when confronted, he'd simply give up and be taken into custody. then they should of knocked on his door, like they would any other time. The fact they hid and got the tow driver to try to repo the truck again confirms this. Nothing about that situation was about "hoping that the guy when confronted, he'd simply give up and be taken into custody." |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:43:30 PM EDT
[#32]
It's a tough one. Bad setup, goodish (?) initial shot or threes, the coup de grace at the end was done by someone with an unlimited ammo budget/attoney fee/fine payment ability. Silver lining is eveyone went home safe and another day closer to 20y.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:50:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: is a valid repossession stealing? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NCPatrolAR: Originally Posted By trails-end: Neither is stealing a car. is a valid repossession stealing? Doesn't the bank have the lien? The guy did not own that vehicle unless he paid it off and had the title. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:52:05 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By evnash: Is there a rash of repro trucks with flashing light stealing cars? A 2 second Google showed me exactly that...  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:55:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grey50beast: In my uneducated opinion, if cops are not allowed to help with repos, they should have done a knock and talk regarding his previous assault during the initial repo attempt. Dangerous? Sure, but no less than ambushing him in the dark, which it 100% was a planned ambush. And that is what the department policy would have them do. But they violated policy, killed a guy, and got fired. Shooter is also getting charged with murder. This thread is a dupe, here is a link to a previous thread reply that has lots of factual information. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:56:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By evnash: A key takeaway in my line is never use deathly force to protect property |
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USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:57:49 PM EDT
[#37]
What is a "leaded bodycam"? Is it extra heavy or something?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/28/2024 1:58:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By grey50beast: We told him that the NCStar weapon light was going to get him killed... Jokes aside, the guy thought his truck was getting stolen, because "according to his family" it was paid up. I can understand coming out with a gun for that reason. I really don't think they gave him time to react, other than to swing the pistol at someone coming off the side of his house. Shitty situation. In my uneducated opinion, if cops are not allowed to help with repos, they should have done a knock and talk regarding his previous assault during the initial repo attempt. Dangerous? Sure, but no less than ambushing him in the dark, which it 100% was a planned ambush. My offhand suspicion is that the cops didn't want to deal with the arrest at all, so if the repo guy gets the vehicle and leaves safely, time to clear call without a report and go back to the station. Anyone who's done repos or been called out on repo disturbances can attest to how spicy they get. Residents pulling guns isn't exactly a new thing. I've seen people straight up jump onto the moving vehicles and try to climb the tow truck like it's Mad Max (and then get run over because their parkour skills suck and they can't hold on). There's zero chance the homeowner didn't realize it was a repo truck in his driveway, considering the prior interaction. That he was armed, with light turned on and pointing it, indicates pretty clearly he was knowingly committing aggravated assault. PSGWSP. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:00:01 PM EDT
[#39]
Not guilty.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:07:46 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By WesJanson: There's zero chance the homeowner didn't realize it was a repo truck in his driveway, considering the prior interaction. That he was armed, with light turned on and pointing it, indicates pretty clearly he was knowingly committing aggravated assault. I hate getting sucked into GD drivel. If his car loan was current then it was not a repo, it was theft, and dead guy was not breaking the law. If his car loan was not current then the repoman and police violated written policies which led to the guy getting killed. Just like if you drive drunk and kill somebody, it's your fault for breaking the rules. The whole point everybody misses is that there was a better way to do it, but varying amounts of stubbornness on all parties resulted in a guy dying, a little girl growing up knowing the cops killed her dad, a cop being charged with murder, a bunch of cops fired and can never work as a cop again, the city out tons of money, and so many more things. All because the cops wouldn't just park a patrol car with flashing lights in front of the house. No matter how you cut it the cops were wrong. Whether or not dead guy was wrong has no bearing on how wrong the cops and repoman were. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:21:38 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By evnash: A key takeaway in my line is never use deathly force to protect property My key takeaway is to confront trespassers like the cops handled the homeowner: "Stop or I'll sho.." bang, bang, bang "ot!" bang, bang, bang Bang. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:23:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: grey50beast]
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ajek: My key takeaway is to confront trespassers like the cops handled the homeowner: "Stop or I'll sho.." bang, bang, bang "ot!" bang, bang, bang Bang. Don't forget to miss 85% of your shots. Accuracy by volume. (TBF I missed all but 1 shot in my gun fight, but I was the ambushed, not the ambusher.) |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:27:55 PM EDT
[#43]
If he wad paid up its 100% bad shoot.
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:28:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By evnash: Is there a rash of repro trucks with flashing light stealing cars? Yes , long time now. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:30:29 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bama_Rebel: then they should of knocked on his door, like they would any other time. The fact they hid and got the tow driver to try to repo the truck again confirms this. Nothing about that situation was about "hoping that the guy when confronted, he'd simply give up and be taken into custody." PoPo: [ knock knock ] PoPo: "Mr Perkins, this repo guy has valid paperwork to repossess this vehicle, why did you point a gun at him earlier?" If someone points a gun at a person (pick a reason) do the cops just sorta hang around like snipers to shoot them in the act? Or do they go issue a ticket or arrest for reckless endangerment (or whatever) regardless if the victim is hanging around or not? Repo guys that fuck up are just thieves, and should be treated as such. If sometimes that means getting a beat down in street justice, so be it. Here's a hint: Don't fuck up. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:35:43 PM EDT
[#46]
what the f*** is a leaded body Cam
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:37:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harmonic_Distortion: Only for civilians tho. well, of course!! |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:37:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clutchsmoke: Seems like the cops didn't give the guy a chance but then again threatening someone with a gun brings this kind of shit down on your head. Are the cops required to give the guy a chance? Does it have to be a fair fight or something? |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:39:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli: Yeah. PoPo: [ knock knock ] PoPo: "Mr Perkins, this repo guy has valid paperwork to repossess this vehicle, why did you point a gun at him earlier?" If someone points a gun at a person (pick a reason) do the cops just sorta hang around like snipers to shoot them in the act? Or do they go issue a ticket or arrest for reckless endangerment (or whatever) regardless if the victim is hanging around or not? Repo guys that fuck up are just thieves, and should be treated as such. If sometimes that means getting a beat down in street justice, so be it. Here's a hint: Don't fuck up. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RR_Broccoli: Originally Posted By Bama_Rebel: then they should of knocked on his door, like they would any other time. The fact they hid and got the tow driver to try to repo the truck again confirms this. Nothing about that situation was about "hoping that the guy when confronted, he'd simply give up and be taken into custody." PoPo: [ knock knock ] PoPo: "Mr Perkins, this repo guy has valid paperwork to repossess this vehicle, why did you point a gun at him earlier?" If someone points a gun at a person (pick a reason) do the cops just sorta hang around like snipers to shoot them in the act? Or do they go issue a ticket or arrest for reckless endangerment (or whatever) regardless if the victim is hanging around or not? Repo guys that fuck up are just thieves, and should be treated as such. If sometimes that means getting a beat down in street justice, so be it. Here's a hint: Don't fuck up. Take a report and the victim can seek a warrant from the court/magistrate. |
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Posted: 3/28/2024 2:42:01 PM EDT
[#50]
 couldn't they just shoot the pistol out of his hand?
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