We seem to have a lot of generator/prepper questions lately so though I would repost this from the archives….


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You might have clicked on this expecting a link to a YouTube video but there isn’t one. Instead this is my very real experience of living on a Panamanian jungle island with no power and capturing rainwater for several months. I also realize there will be folks who aren’t worried about fuel costs or extended run times and want to run everything from the hair dryer to the train set and apparently all at the same time. So this thread won’t be for those folks. This thread is for the folks who are thinking of a generator for true and extended emergencies and may be approaching it from a misguided angle.

I run a construction company and we have big generators. They can burn through 5 gallons of fuel a day even at idle with a load add 30-40 percent more consumption. When out of town my crew will refuel every day and then fill fuel jugs up again, every single night. But at home for emergencies I use a Honda EU2200i and have several Champion 2000 inverters as backups. Let me explain my reasoning and what living with that entails.

From a survival or emergency standpoint I think one of the biggest mistakes people make is buying a huge generator without really thinking about what they are powering. I always ask folks in a true emergency what will they be powering and inevitably they will say lights, TV, and charging electronics. In their head they are plotting out a real emergency. One that loses power for days or weeks. They want to see in the dark and have information. Next, and maybe not in the most well thought out order of priorities, they want to run their fridge and freezers.

When I was in that jungle I ran a freezer, TV, DVD player, satellite with internet, fans, water pump, and of course lights. All with that little Honda and I did it easily every day. When I got up the first thing I did was plug in the freezer once it had its initial load which takes about a second I turned on everything else. Yes, it easily handled all of that. Then after the freezer ran for a few hours I would unplug it. Led lights and modern TVs pull very little power. So little I don’t even really think of them as a concern. So everyday, all day long and into the night that little generator hummed along and it used just over a gallon of fuel.

The reality is that you can take sponge baths if it is cold, you can buy solar showers which work great, hell you can buy propane showers that work really well. If you are willing to do just that much inconvenience in your life you are coming out miles ahead and this is again, an emergency situation. Additionally your fridge and freezers don’t need to run all day to stay frozen and cold if you can have just a little discipline about opening the door. As a side note chest freezers are best for power outages.

But let’s talk about my fuel consumption in a true emergency. In a worst case scenario I would cut my generator time down to four hours. That would make sure food was frozen and everything was charged. I could potentially cut it further. I know from experience I would likely use less than ½ gallon of gasoline a day but let’s use that as a baseline. If I had 30 gallons of fuel stored, only 30 gallons then we are at 60 plus days of necessary power. If I had a big gas guzzling Bronco with a 32 gallon fuel tank I also keep full, which I do, I am now at four months when added to my stored non-ethanol fuel. If I can get serious about being conservative I may stretch that to five months and beyond. Pretty extreme but you get my point. Of course if the gas stations are still open and you have plenty of money than consumption may be secondary.

But Bryan, you say, you live in SW Virginia and you don’t get hurricanes. Do you really need to prepare for that long of an outage? About 15 years ago we had 10” of heavy snow. It brought down years’ worth of deadfall and there were people in my county without power for forty days. Pretty biblical. It happened again about 7 years ago but people only lost power for 3 weeks that time. I have been lucky not to have that happen to me based on my vicinity to a larger line and I typically only lose power for a short while.

Let's talk about noise. Big generators are loud, crazy loud and they eat away at your soul after listening to them all day. These little inverters are so quiet that I will watch TV with it on just the other side of the door. You can’t really hear it from the front of the house if it is in back. At idle you can talk in a normal voice standing over top of it. Sound or lack thereof may be the one thing that keeps all your neighbors at bay from wanting to borrow your generator “just for a little while”. Oh, and size? My 5’2” wife can easily pick it up and move it anywhere. As well she can easily start it with a halfhearted single pull.

But there are three big considerations when living with a generator. First is AC. These 2000 watt generators will run a window unit is that is a necessity for someone in your family perhaps with a medical condition. My home in Panama didnt even have glass in the windows and I survived. Perhaps it was just not always having AC in my life that prepared me for that or pehaps it was not even having the option that made it a moot point and something that just had to be accepted as a reality. Next consideration is heat. It's not going to run a heat pump, so prepare accordingly. Lastly is cooking. It can handle a single burner hot plate but it is just way too easy to buy a camp stove or similar and use that instead.

I won’t say living with a generator is as easy as grid tied. But I will say if you have a bit of a routine it is very easy to live a pretty much normal life even with a small generator. Of course we didn’t really discuss cooking which was gas, or the water system which was a systern with a pressure pump that we had hooked up for running water but I am happy to answer any questions. And if you made it this far through this wall of text, congratulations, you have what it takes to outlive the hordes.

ETA for clarity: when I was in Panama I had the older Honda 2000 opposed to the newer 2200.

Links:

Gas shower, this is just an example and dont know its quality...






Honda EU2200I, there are probably better deals out there...







Champion 2300 watt generator. Sometimes these are on sale for much less...






Of course the Harbor Freight Predator which is also often on sale...

predator

Thanks for the repost.

Good info, thank you!

Our power was out for about a week here last summer/fall.  I work from home and made due with a little 2200w generator on the front porch and extension cords. I have gas appliances, charcoal grill, and city water/sewer.  So I only I ran it about 50% of the time to keep my laptop charged and the fridge cold.  It also kept the lights and TV working when it was running.

Honestly I've thought about getting like a 5000-6000w little 120/240v generator, tripping my service mains breaker and also the A/C breaker to "off", then just plugging the genset into my 50A welding outlet with a homemade suicide plug to put 120v on each leg of the breaker box.  Other than the A/C I turned off, I don't have any other appliance or anything that uses 240v.

Good read. I stocked up after snowmaggeddon which virtually ensures I’ll never need the gear. Here is my setup:

House has a lockout switch

Main generator is 10k watt dual fuel that only runs on propane. We have 6 propane bottles. I believe with conservative use the 6 would go 10-14 days.

Inverter generator is a 3k watt model. Runs on gas. We keep 10 gallons on hand. By your math I think we have about 20,days of run. Gives me roughly a month alternating between the two.

We have 3 portable AC units but we would likely only use one in one room to extend our fuel.  Running this ac 2 hours at a time will cut my sustainment period from a month to 2 weeks unless I add more fuel.

Our house has gas heat and we can kick on the heater from a deep cycle battery that is continuously charged via solar panels

We also have a lunch box size battery pack that can run electronics for several days and has a solar recharger.


Not currently activated, but I have a Garmin inReach in case local cell is down but global is not. Internet is Starlink so I’m thinking I could keep that up if the net stays up.

We get a lot of hurricanes here and the power can go out for up to a week at a time. I've found the best way to conserve fuel is to use two inverters running in parallel. That allows you to scale power output and fuel use as needed. At night, after Ida, we'd only run one inverter for the window a/c units. It was hot and nasty and there was no way to sleep without something to cool and dry the air. During the day, we'd run both inverters since we also had fridges and more window a/c units. We were able to get by, although we learned quite a bit during that outage. Fuel was the big thing that few people seemed to really be prepared for. Most people had a full generator tank and an extra 5 gallon jug. And that was it. They ran out of fuel quickly and then had to prowl gas stations with long lines to try to find more. We were able to avoid that.

BTDT with an antique Kohler liquid-cooled 6.5KW generator running on propane grill tanks. It ran lights, refrigerator, freezer, and the 220 well pump. Didn't need A/C.

I have a Briggs 2KW inverter generator that would run the furnace, lights and selective appliances. Also have a gas engine welder/generator that will do 8-10KW but that unit is a bit thirsty, maybe 1 gallon/hour.

Thanks for posting, that is some good information.

Big generators burn a lot more than 5 gallons a day.

Most people I know want more than jungle survival mode when it comes to generators for their home.
I don’t know of too many residential water wells that will start with a 2kw generator.

But then again I know one guy that lived out in the woods with a his wife for two years with nothing and they both had good jobs.  I don’t know how they got clean enough to be around people.

You're not wrong.

Also, have extra oil on hand. If you're running your generator for extended periods. You have to keep up on maintenance.

I used to have a big gas guzzler, but now I've shifted into multiple smaller units - 1k, 2.2k, 4.5k.  Inverters, some dual fuel.  Gives me lot's of options as well as backups.  I much prefer propane over gasoline for many reasons.

My 2000w Champion will run the Elwell A/C in my camper all night, and that little fucker will freeze you out.

I can survive almost anything as long as I have a good night's sleep. Laying there sweating is NOT a good night's sleep.

Depends on the well pump motor. Off-grid guy may have had a small pump with 110V motor. My well pump has a 1.5HP, 220V, motor. Google says approx 1100 watts running draw but double for starting, so a 2KW generator would be marginal even if was 220V capable. That is my main motivation for having a 110V/220V generator. The only other 220 unit in the house is the A/C and, here in WI, we can live without it if necessary.

When I moved into our last house one of the first things we did was have a electrician add a generator interlock to the electrical panel.  With a Honda EU2000 I could quickly and easily run all of our lights (LED's), ceiling fans, and our kitchen fridge and freezer.  Felt like success every time we turned it on.

Thanks for posting.

You are right about the chest freezer.  After hurricane Ian and the flooding we did not get back in our house for three or four days and it was another day before I drug out the generator and fired it up.  I expected the chest freezer to be a horrible mess and didn't even open it that first day.  I finally braced myself for what I thought would be an unGodly mess and popped it open.  The water bottles I had thrown in 24 hours before the storm still had ice in them and the food was cold, some of it still frozen.  I immediately plugged the chest freezer in and saved everything in the freezer except the fish, which I did not want to risk.  We ate the turkey for thanksgiving that year.

I have been using a small Briggs and Stratton 2000w generator for years.  It does just fine after storms.  After Ian I upgraded to a 2500w Champion inverter model.  Mainly for the fuel savings and less noise.  I am still keeping the old generator though.  It will be a backup, or run window shakers if need be.

I've survived in the Jungle with no generator.

This is great advice.  Fortunately I own two older Harley Davidson's so oil is something I keep in stock.

My cheap $320 rokpals 2000w inverter genny cannot start a cold husky oiled 8 gal 1.5 hp air compressor.

Excellent post OP.  Very few have actually been there and understand just how little electricity one NEEDS to get by comfortably.  If one has alternative from electric for cooking and heat one is way ahead of the game.

In the winter in the south I’ve found electrical “need” surprisingly low when without. Phones and lights can be charged in my vehicle and the freezer will go close to a week by itself.  All bets are off in July and August as it gets miserably hot even at night.

Regarding cooling my wife bought this rechargeable fan that I thought was sure to be a zero.  Frankly I’ve been amazed as it moves an amazing amount of air and is quieter than any fan I’ve ever heard.  When they go on sale again I’m going to get a couple more and use one for work.  Will run constantly if plugged in and several hours on a charge.
https://a.co/d/gJ6QCt7

You can certainly make due on limited electricity.

My preference is all my regular daily comforts, air conditioning, heat, etc along with fuel that replinishes itself naturally. Thankfully it wasn't too expensive and since I use it daily, I've reduced my electrical bill to where I expect the system to pay for itself in about a decade.

No doubt that solar is the way to go for ultimate convenience and comfort. But a whole house solar system is probably in the neighborhood of $45-$50,000 nowadays or at least that’s what I hear.

I've always been a little bemused by the idea for many, many people is that they need a generator so they can run their AC.    Not many places in the world where AC is absolutely essential for survival vs just comfort.  There are plenty of ways to stay cool or just suck it up in a disaster situation.

AC is a luxury that mankind didn't even know existed until very recently.

I need a small generator for a little project/business. I'm working on.

How does the small predator 2000 compared to the Honda 2200?

I've always been a Honda guy, but I know those HF predator generators. Get good reviews too. Is the Honda really worth more than twice as much?

I have $22k in my current project. I did the labor which is the primary savings. 30% comes back on taxes, so I'm inline with the cost of a nice whole home generator. ($16k after tax credits)

If I want 100% electric heat in winter I'll need to spend about $10k more to double my battery size and add some more panels.

You live in Minnesota.  I live in Florida.  It's an odd flex to tell people they don't need AC while sitting in your house in Minnesota

I don't want to say AC is a "necessity" but it's pretty darn important after a hurricane rolls through down here.  Taking AC breaks reduces risk of heat stroke and dehydration in 95 to 100 degree weather with very high humidity.  It also allows people to sleep and recover.  I've gotten close to having serious accidents running chainsaws in the heat after a storm, for example, and don't know that I would have been able to get medical care. Sitting in the AC for 15 minutes changed a lot in those circumstances.

On a relevant note, I just rotated some cans and refilled them this morning. Holy shit, this is why I Want a gas sipping generator. Mind you this is 93 octane with no ethanol.

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Are there any smaller inverter models that offer 240V? I fully recognize that my total needs are small and would like to get a smaller unit, but it seems to me that 240V only ends up offered starting around ~6kW and up.

Consider buying one or more of those big ass Ecoflow battery units as a buffer between the generator and the load.

If my plan was to draw from a well for water then I would have a holding tank and I would only run my bigger generator long enough to fill that holding tank be that 275 gallon totes or a big black plastic poly tank. Run it for maybe 20 minutes fill it up and shut off that generator and then rely on the small one all the rest of my stuff

Yeah, when I read the posts earlier I thought to myself "I'm glad I'm in Michigan and not Florida, AC isn't a need when the power is out".  

The flip side of that is losing the furnace or power when it's 0 or even colder.  Back in 2014 we had a newborn in the house and lost power when it was -20.  That was fun.

This works well with the bathtub water bob.  We have done this the day before an incoming storm to make sure we have water if the power goes out.  We've never lost power long enough to need to refill it via generator, but the option is there.

@ BlackFox +1    
While this is true, it makes a big difference. BTDT
If you're lucky temps will stay in the upper 70s and its not bad. But typically, temps will be anywhere from 80s- low 100s with high humidity after a storm. Try working a 12 hr job, coming home without power and playing catch up, then trying to get some sleep to do it again for weeks. Cold showers are welcomed.
When you're sweating as you try to sleep and it eventually cools down enough to drift off @0200 only to get up at 0300; it makes for a long day(s). Add a small A/C to a room and life gets much better very quickly. A decent night sleep makes a world of difference.
Even with power, when you step outside at 0330 and its noticeably warm (hot) and the humidity hits you like a brick, and you're sweating as you get inside the truck; you know the day is going to suck.

This is pretty much my plan.

My large genset can power the well and the water heater at the same time, so i crank it up and fill my tanks, get everyone to bathe, maybe knock out some cooking and get the freezers chilled, and then transition back to my eu2000 for normal operation.

Use a transformer.

I use a propane on demand hot water unit similar to the one in the OP, it works really, really well and cost $180. Ignites off of 2 “D” cells and gives hot water literally in seconds. I use it in my solar off grid cabin-we were using a 3 gallon pesticide pump sprayer before that and it worked well.

Water and everything to do with it are the biggest consumers of power in my cabin-pumping it out of the ground, heating it for showers, heating it for meals, heating it for cleaning dishes etc. going to a propane unit like this was a big step up for quality of life until I can get the rest of my solar installed and use a water heater as a dump load.

Yeah, our summer in the south can be as deadly as your winter up north.  Not hard to keep my house, or areas of it warm in 20 degree weather.  It gets exponentially harder I’ve noticed in those rare times it gets closed to zero.

Old people and young kids WILL die in our heat without air conditioning.  It’s miserable for everyone else.  Fortunately it most the time just a couple months out of the year that it’s extreme heat.  Setting up a “lifeboat” room with a small air conditioner that will run on 2000 watt generator can make all the difference in the world.

I don't think any of the super portable inverter ones deliver 240.

The smallest conventional (motor on frame with wheels and a handle) that provide 240v are the 3500w continuous class.  Compared to the inverter style 3000-4000w continuous class generators, the conventionals are half the price, still the same weight, provide similar run times, and can provide 240v.  But they are WAY louder (like +12dB louder) and the power is dirtier (notable voltage and frequency sags when big draws on the circuit start up).

Even if I had a smallish 240v conventional generator for my bigger 240v things, I'd still keep a 120v small inverter to supply cleaner power to my sensitive things (PC/laptop, TV's, electronics, etc.)... which unfortunately is more and more "smart" appliances and whatever nowadays.  Or I'd buy a 120v UPS battery/inverter power supply to clean the conventional generator power up for sensitive electronics ... but those aren't necessarily cheap; probably more $ than an equally rated inverter generator.

During Covid / ammo scarcity of 2020….I traded $350.00 in ammo ( $4.99 a box 223 )  bought circa 1995 and traded it even for 3 generators at market rate of $10.99 a box at a local pawn shop. Pawn shop immediately marked it all $19.99 a box and sold all of it.

My $350.00  investment in ammo got me…..3 champion inverter generators..  


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Two champion 2000 watt inverters, ( marked $240.00 each )   Sell for …approx $400.00 each online.

And one 3500 watt champion dual fuel propane / gas inverter.  ( marked $400.00 )  sell for approx $800.00 online

All 3 new in box at a local pawn shop.

They are great generators, I simply love them ! Iv got several BIG generators, like 8000 watt portable and a 10kw military whole house, which are great for supplying full power for short term outages, but for a week or more outages we use the little inverters, the 2000 watt will power freezers and such for approx 10 hours on a gallon of gas. Same for running basics in the house, tv, internet, charging phones, running tablets, coffee pot, lamps, microwave, etc.

Next year I’m installing a 500 gallon propane tank, and when my electric central heat dies ( it’s 22 years old ) I will replace it with a propane unit, same for water heater, and I’ll hook it to a gas stove in the garage too, that way we will cut out almost all of our BIG energy hogs, and even a small generator can power basically the entire house / require much less KW to make it work. Plus, the basics like hot water / heat / cooking won’t require grid power anymore.

Currently I’m working on installing this.

10kw tactical generator.

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Picked up a 200 gallon generator base yesterday that I’m going to mount it on, and put the entire thing into a 10’ conex ( $1100.00 ) build a generator shed.

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These mini conex containers are 10’x8’ and run around $1200.00, which is dirt cheap, a similar sized yard barn at Lowe’s is $3800.00. You could buy 3 mini conex for cost of one 8x10 yard barn.  I’m getting one for a generator shed, but might well buy a few more for various uses.  Build a greenhouse, build a walk in freezer for my butcher shop operation, general secure storage, etc.

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Commercially installed = expensive.

If you’re willing to DIY, the costs are substantially lower. Monocrystalline 100w panels are available at numerous places for ~$5x.xx. You could cover your own roof with 100 of them (if you have room).

Batteries, chargers, inverters; possible to install your setup for $10k - $15k, depending on how big you’re going.

People also tend to think of healthy individuals.

Someone who isn’t in great health, or is elderly, has a lower tolerance for adapting to either hot or cold.

yes, but no... not so simple as just throwing a plain old doubling transformer on it.

US 120/240v residential power is split phase; from a technical standpoint it's two 120v lines with a common ground that are 180deg out of phase so while the leg-to-leg difference is 240v (peak to peak), each leg-to-ground is 120v.

Just throwing a simple 2x transformer on a 120v generator supply makes it 240v to ground.  For something that truly ONLY needs 240v, that is not a problem.  However a lot of modern 240v appliances just use the 240v to drive the big draw motor/device but then internally split that 240v multi-phase supply out to different busses and some components internally may only be using the 120v individually.  Think of it as how some houses have "branch wired" circuits, except the appliance itself has branch wiring internally.  You can't branch wire a single phase supply.  And even then if you just have something like a 240v induction motor, the motor itself might have things like start windings or variable power windings in it that break the 240v residential down to the 120v legs.

So to get "residential 240v" by going the transformer route, you'd either need two 2x transformers wired to share a ground or something like a 2 kVA Isolation Transformer (with 120V Primary & 120/240V secondary) which is just a fancy pants transformer already made up of two transformer windings that share a common ground output. Then you'd to float the supply (ie: the generator) and physically ground (ie: ground rod into the earth) the transformer.  Something like this 2kVA Isolation Transformer would work with something like a quiet 2200w class inverter generator... but they literally costs just about as much as the generator.  Of course, none of this even applies to you if your home/house/appt. uses 120/208v power (which is three 120v legs 120deg out of phase; 208v between legs but each leg is 120v to ground)... that requires either a 3-ph generator or a 120v generator feeding an isolation transformer feeding a phase converter.

Isolation transformer diagram...
your 120v inverter generator would supply the left side of this picture.

Good,post.

I’d love to have solar, but realistically the only thing it could do for me, would be to offer a small charged battery bank capable of powering some basic electronics, like recharging phones, tablets, flash lights or perhaps running my ham radio or such. Simply because solar is expensive and I’d only be able to afford a simple, small set up.

Which would be useful in certain situations, such as extended / frequent power outages.

I’d love a big set up, capable of powering the whole house, etc, but simply can’t justify it on my current budget. If I had millions, sure, I’d 100% have a big solar set up along with several other things.

I have full intentions of setting up one to run my freezers and some bonus led lights. But that alone is going to likely be 5k.

Great thread OP, this one will generate a lot of useful info.

If the power is out, it probably means we got a lot of rain and I need to run my sump pump 24/7 unless I want my basement to flood.  I just plug it into my outside interlock plug and Im in business.

The longest we've been without power is 12 hours in the current house and my 8750 Champion dual fuel worked great, albeit noisy. I keep enough fuel on hand for a few days of running 24/7. With two cars at home I could always siphon more out of the tanks.

Im always curious how everyone runs all their extension cords through their house without having their doors or windows open. Or do yall just have to keep one open to feed the cord through?

What you've pictured is a single transformer with a center tap in the secondary winding.  You can think of it as two transformers or even use 2 if you like, but it is still "a transformer" as I've said.  I simply said use a transformer.  I never said you couldn't tap the center if you want split phase coming out of it.  If you do not tap the center you get 240V, if you tap the center you get 240V split phase.

I would strongly suspect in this case, the 240V sink is a well pump.

Dang.

Last power outage I ran 4 freezers and some lights with a 2000 watt champion inverter. Ran it 8 hours and didn’t even use a gallon of gas.  I think I could have kept all 4 freezers cold / frozen for a full 7 days with $15.00 / 5 gallons of fuel, and for a full month with 4 full jerry cans / $60.00 in gasoline. Run them for 4 hours let them sit 8 hours, etc.

So total cost.. $400 inverter and $60.00 in gas = $460.00   Vs $5000.00.

Just crazy.

Obviously solar offers benefits a generator cannot match, for example it could run these things for years, and much, much more without needing to mess with generators, haul / store fuel, etc. be nice to have on demand power 24/7 like that.

But also issues, expensive, need great sun / long hours of reliable sunlight, which is easy to get in Arizona , or California but much more difficulty in Kentucky when it’s cloudy for months.

But yes, I’d love a small solar set up.

Great information.

I decided to go this route about 30 years ago with a Coleman 2500 conventional generator.

Now I have a 3200 watt dual fuel inverter and a 2200 watt gas inverter generators.

The main difference between mine ind your is adding between 500 and 1000 watt-hours in battery storage, 400 watts in solar panels and a quick charge capacity.

I can run the generator 1-2 hours a day and make up for anything the solar can’t keep up with and charge the batteries.

I can run my garage refrigerator for about 14 hours on one charge of my EcoFlow River Pro (750 watt-hours) without any solar input. I haven’t tested my kitchen refrigerator, but I expect between 8-10 hours.

I also bought a couple timer plugs. I plan to run one refrigerator for an hour, have both off for an hour and then turn the second refrigerator on for an hour before having both off for an hour. I should get about 8-10 hours running like this off just the battery.

Throw in the 180 watt panel I have for this power station and the refrigerators should be good indefinitely.

The other 200 watts of solar will normally keep my smaller power station and electronics charged to provide lights, radio, and internet (if available).