User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 5:28:40 AM EDT
[#1]
Assuming you are selling through an FFL I see no problem.
YMMV |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 5:31:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Pretty sure nothing has changed as long as you go through a FFL.
The rule change effects those selling privately and is a backdoor private sales ban. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 5:39:35 AM EDT
[#3]
There is no actual number. You could sell your entire collection, you could sell one gun, and they may consider you in the business or they may not. You don't even have to sell any guns at all!
Other things to consider: whether you have fired them before, and whether you are selling them with the original boxes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 5:42:55 AM EDT
[#4]
Just to play it safe, I'd say not more than 2 per lifetime.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 5:46:58 AM EDT
[#5]
Go ahead and sell them all, we need a good test case.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 6:06:49 AM EDT
[#6]
Going through an ffl has makes zero difference based on all the legal vids. The ATF decides how many not you. It is, of course, ambiguous
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 6:09:10 AM EDT
[#7]
Why involve the man?
Sell them, do as you feel comfortable. The only thing to worry wonder about is the feds want their cut. If you make a profit pay your capital gain or not. Having a loss is tax deductible also if you itemize. Otherwise give them at firesale to a friend. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 6:10:33 AM EDT
[#8]
Now that private sales are banned, one is too many. That's the Gun show (Malinowski) loophole. Unless, you go thru an FFL, then the number is unlimited. That is until the BATFE changes their mind.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 6:25:08 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now that private sales are banned, one is too many. That's the Gun show (Malinowski) loophole. Unless, you go thru an FFL, then the number is unlimited. That is until the BATFE changes their mind. Like I said, I’m selling through Gunbroker |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 6:40:27 AM EDT
[#10]
Damn, just about every post in this thread is wrong. If PA allows private sales you can sell them without going thru an FFL. Did you buy your guns with the sole intention of earning a profit and making a living from them? If not you are GTG. Selling thru an FFL would not preclude you from needing your own FFL if you are considered a dealer.
Look here, straight from the ATF. . |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 6:56:47 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn, just about every post in this thread is wrong. If PA allows private sales you can sell them without going thru an FFL. Did you buy your guns with the sole intention of earning a profit and making a living from them? If not you are GTG. Selling thru an FFL would not preclude you from needing your own FFL if you are considered a dealer. Look here, straight from the ATF. . And we know how amenable the ATF is to kitchen table FFLs! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:01:53 AM EDT
[#12]
When i moved i just rented the smallest uhaul and moved my guns and ammo myself. Had the movers do the rest. It was soo worth it.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:08:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no actual number. You could sell your entire collection, you could sell one gun, and they may consider you in the business or they may not. Other things to consider: whether you have fired them before, and whether you are selling them with the original boxes. Can't be serious. WTF? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:10:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Not today Mr atf man
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:14:55 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't be serious. WTF? I think that he is referring to someone that is buying guns and flipping them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:18:06 AM EDT
[#16]
Could be a coincidence but there seem to be a lot of recent "busts" that reference GB in some context. As in sources and methods.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:18:51 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't be serious. WTF? About the ATF rule to "clarify" what it means to be in the business of that was completely devoid of any objective criteria? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:22:29 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could be a coincidence but there seem to be a lot of recent "busts" that reference GB in some context. As in sources and methods. Links to busts that reference Gunbroker? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:22:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When i moved i just rented the smallest uhaul and moved my guns and ammo myself. Had the movers do the rest. It was soo worth it. This. Edit to add: GB doesn't care how many guns you sell or if you have a business. When the gun is sold it is shipped to a FFL, GB gets their fee, so who cares how many are listed and sold. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:23:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Links to busts that reference Gunbroker? Desire to know more intensifies. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:27:57 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like I said, I’m selling through Gunbroker Gunbroker is not an FFL. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:31:14 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gunbroker is not an FFL. Going through an FFL doesn't solve your problem of being seen by the BATFE as an unlicensed dealer. Neither does selling at a loss if you can't demonstrate what you originally purchased them for. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:31:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Assuming you are selling through an FFL I see no problem. YMMV YOU see no problem, I see no problem. ATF? They will see whatever they want to see, whenever and wherever they choose to see it. ATF has previously published notices that transferring a firearm through an FFL does not absolve the seller from potentially meeting their definition of being “engaged in the business”. Been that way for years. Of course they only send those notices to FFL holders so how the hell would anybody potentially violating their arbitrary rules know what they are  Common sense says that if whoever ends up with the gun has passed a BC then ATF shouldn’t have a problem with it. However “common sense” and Government action usually have very little to do with each other. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:36:29 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't be serious. WTF? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There is no actual number. You could sell your entire collection, you could sell one gun, and they may consider you in the business or they may not. Other things to consider: whether you have fired them before, and whether you are selling them with the original boxes. Can't be serious. WTF? Yes, he’s serious. One correction, the number of guns sold could be zero (!) if you show the intent to sell. One of the indicators someone may be a dealer is if they sell a gun within 30 days of buying it or within 1 year if it is still like new in the original box. Again, an indicator they might be a dealer, but not a hard definition. The ‘rules’ are so convoluted it’s impossible to actually define who is a dealer. It’s sort of like porn, the ATF will know who’s a dealer when they see it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:37:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't be serious. WTF? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There is no actual number. You could sell your entire collection, you could sell one gun, and they may consider you in the business or they may not. Other things to consider: whether you have fired them before, and whether you are selling them with the original boxes. Can't be serious. WTF? He's quite serious. The rule that goes into effect this Monday contains that language as part of the criteria for judging if you're a "dealer". Did you miss all the threads on the new ATF rule stemming from the RINO " Safer Communities" Act? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:39:13 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: YOU see no problem, I see no problem. ATF? They will see whatever they want to see, whenever and wherever they choose to see it. ATF has previously published notices that transferring a firearm through an FFL does not absolve the seller from potentially meeting their definition of being “engaged in the business”. Been that way for years. Of course they only send those notices to FFL holders so how the hell would anybody potentially violating their arbitrary rules know what they are Common sense says that if whoever ends up with the gun has passed a BC then ATF shouldn’t have a problem with it. However “common sense” and Government action usually have very little to do with each other. Once a person understands that the BATFE exists as a perverse entity within a government whose charter specifically precludes arms restrictions as a condition of their authority, for the specific purpose of doing intimidating, harassing, and killing Americans for engaging in activity protected by that charter it makes a whole lot more sense. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:39:17 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, he’s serious. One correction, the number of guns sold could be zero (!) if you show the intent to sell. One of the indicators someone may be a dealer is if they sell a gun within 30 days of buying it or within 1 year if it is still like new in the original box. Again, an indicator they might be a dealer, but not a hard definition. The ‘rules’ are so convoluted it’s impossible to actually define who is a dealer. It’s sort of like porn, the ATF will know who’s a dealer when they see it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is no actual number. You could sell your entire collection, you could sell one gun, and they may consider you in the business or they may not. Other things to consider: whether you have fired them before, and whether you are selling them with the original boxes. Can't be serious. WTF? Yes, he’s serious. One correction, the number of guns sold could be zero (!) if you show the intent to sell. One of the indicators someone may be a dealer is if they sell a gun within 30 days of buying it or within 1 year if it is still like new in the original box. Again, an indicator they might be a dealer, but not a hard definition. The ‘rules’ are so convoluted it’s impossible to actually define who is a dealer. It’s sort of like porn, the ATF will know who’s a dealer when they see it. Where are these “indicators” coming from? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:40:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, he’s serious. One correction, the number of guns sold could be zero (!) if you show the intent to sell. One of the indicators someone may be a dealer is if they sell a gun within 30 days of buying it or within 1 year if it is still like new in the original box. Again, an indicator they might be a dealer, but not a hard definition. The ‘rules’ are so convoluted it’s impossible to actually define who is a dealer. It’s sort of like porn, the ATF will know who’s a dealer when they see it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, he’s serious. One correction, the number of guns sold could be zero (!) if you show the intent to sell. One of the indicators someone may be a dealer is if they sell a gun within 30 days of buying it or within 1 year if it is still like new in the original box. Again, an indicator they might be a dealer, but not a hard definition. The ‘rules’ are so convoluted it’s impossible to actually define who is a dealer. It’s sort of like porn, the ATF will know who’s a dealer when they see it. My bad, forgot to mention their ability to charge you for inferred intent. Edited, thanks. Quoted: He's quite serious. The rule that goes into effect this Monday contains that language as part of the criteria for judging if you're a "dealer". Did you miss all the threads on the new ATF rule stemming from the RINO " Safer Communities" Act? NBD if anyone missed all of the many previous multi-page threads on this topic. We're in another one right now! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:41:04 AM EDT
[#29]
I can't wait for ATF to get bitch slapped by the 5th circuit. Then hopefully that shitshow called the ATF can be desolved.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:46:47 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could be a coincidence but there seem to be a lot of recent "busts" that reference GB in some context. As in sources and methods. holy dormant account batman |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:48:59 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Could be a coincidence but there seem to be a lot of recent "busts" that reference GB in some context. As in sources and methods. Welcome fellow firearms enthusiast. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 7:55:19 AM EDT
[#32]
who actually sells their guns?
noooooo always be buying. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:02:16 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When i moved i just rented the smallest uhaul and moved my guns and ammo myself. Had the movers do the rest. It was soo worth it. Same here. I made one trip from Cook County to Wisconsin with two safes full of guns, and then a second trip to move my ammo fort. Didn't want the moving crew to know about my collection. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:02:57 AM EDT
[#34]
pecuniary gain
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:08:52 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When i moved i just rented the smallest uhaul and moved my guns and ammo myself. Had the movers do the rest. It was soo worth it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:11:08 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gunbroker is not an FFL. Tell me you have no idea how selling a gun through Gunbroker works without actually telling me you have no idea how selling a gun through Gunbroker works. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:13:09 AM EDT
[#37]
All of them
I’d say buying more and selling those would raise eyebrows |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:17:43 AM EDT
[#38]
It depends on many things. Now that the FBI runs warrantless searches 24/7, they know whether you ordered a US flag, a my-pillow, a bible, and some home school supplies.
If your phone goes to the same place at 10 am every Sunday, and was within their 100 mile radius geofence of a Trump rally, then the answer to your question is zero. You are a gun dealer, terrorist, and threat to democracy. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:20:20 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Assuming you are selling through an FFL I see no problem. YMMV The rule applies to sellers. Using an FFL won’t prevent them from considering you an unlicensed dealer |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:21:05 AM EDT
[#40]
The ATF has a magic number, but they sure as shit don't want to share it. To play it safe, consider selling to the cartels, just like the ATF admitted to.
With their record of respecting the law, civil rights, and holding agents accountable for misconduct, you've got nothing to worry about! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:21:28 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure nothing has changed as long as you go through a FFL. The rule change effects those selling privately and is a backdoor private sales ban. The actual intent of the rule is to have a chilling effect on the second hand gun market. They prefer original buyers keep the guns forever or turn them in at a buy back |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:23:27 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can't be serious. WTF? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There is no actual number. You could sell your entire collection, you could sell one gun, and they may consider you in the business or they may not. Other things to consider: whether you have fired them before, and whether you are selling them with the original boxes. Can't be serious. WTF? Selling in like new condition with original packaging is evidence of dealing Advertising online, like Gunbroker or the EE is evidence of dealing |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:27:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Selling in like new condition with original packaging is evidence of dealing Advertising online, like Gunbroker or the EE is evidence of dealing Creating a thread on the internet asking about it signifies intent. All of us are now co-conspirators. This is fun! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:34:40 AM EDT
[#44]
Im waiting for the day when someone can’t sell their “Extensive” collection because of the laws and just decides to drive a box truck down to the local “Rich and vibrant” area and just opens the doors and has a first come first serve give away.
I mean if you can’t sell them what else can you do?? |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:45:32 AM EDT
[#45]
There's no problem selling your guns as long as you don't cross the line into being "engaged in business." The ATF doesn't care if you sell your own guns. They care if you buy guns for the purpose of reselling them.
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/finalrule2022r-17f-questionsandanswerspdf/download |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:48:57 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's no problem selling your guns as long as you don't cross the line into being "engaged in business." The ATF doesn't care if you sell your own guns. They care if you buy guns for the purpose of reselling them. Easy enough then! How about you lay out what the criteria for that is, friend! |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:57:05 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Going through an ffl has makes zero difference based on all the legal vids. The ATF decides how many not you. It is, of course, ambiguous “ambiguous” is what you’ll get from the atf, since they answer to the WH. FJB’s administration is full-on anti-2A; “all firearms are bad! M’kay?” Gone are Obama’s fig leaf of “I support the second amendment, but . . . “ or publishing a photo of Obama skeet shooting one time at Camp David. But, I called the local atf after my dad passed away and was selling off many of his guns; the atf agent gave me a hint when he asked: “What guns are you selling?” I answered: “30-30 lever gun, 12 gauge pump, 357 revolver, 22 rifle - “ he stopped me, “Yeah we don’t care about any of that. If you were selling a dozen AK copies or half a dozen Tec 9s, then there could be a potential issue.” That was in 2011 anyway. Good luck. |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:57:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Easy enough then! How about you lay out what the criteria for that is, friend! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There's no problem selling your guns as long as you don't cross the line into being "engaged in business." The ATF doesn't care if you sell your own guns. They care if you buy guns for the purpose of reselling them. Easy enough then! How about you lay out what the criteria for that is, friend! https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/finalrule2022r-17f-questionsandanswerspdf/download |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 8:58:26 AM EDT
[#49]
FTATF gets to decide intent about your purchase then sale. I would find a way to take them but that's just me
|
|
|
|
Posted: 5/18/2024 9:00:47 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Like I said, I’m selling through Gunbroker Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Now that private sales are banned, one is too many. That's the Gun show (Malinowski) loophole. Unless, you go thru an FFL, then the number is unlimited. That is until the BATFE changes their mind. Like I said, I’m selling through Gunbroker Actually what you should be saying is: “My FFL is selling my guns through GB.” FFL ——> FFL. Not a purely private transaction between non-FFLs, like at a Funshow. Even better is if your FFL takes a small percentage cut. That way, if it’s ever questioned in an official context, you can claim you actually lost $$$ on the deal because your FFL charged you a commission or consignment fee for handling the transaction. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
