I’m a remodel contractor. One man show. I choose my projects and do them well. I set my prices based on established local trends. I don’t gouge my customers, even though I could. I do a good job (I’ve never had a liability claim filed against my insurance). The couple of minor issues that have come up have been fixed to my customer’s satisfaction on my dime.  

I don’t “need a nickel for every time XYZ happens”. I make thousands fixing mistakes that homeowners tried and failed on their own. Bathrooms and decks seem to be the trickiest ones people attempt and get in over their heads on.

If I come out and bid your project and I think you’re going to use my estimate to do it yourself, I’ll purposely keep the bid vague. EX: Instead of listing (14) 2x8x10 treated boards and (26) 2x6x12 treated boards on your estimate I’ll list “Lumber $XXX” and write the quantities needed to achieve the desired result in my private notes. I’m actually helping you by doing this about 75% of the time. You see, you can’t actually just screw together a bunch of boards, slap some decking on top and build a rail out of the leftovers and call it good. You’ll fail more often than not and that failure could hurt your family when the deck collapses and cause you to lose money.  

When you hire a contractor to build your deck you’re paying for their experience, their reputation with the code compliance folks, the proper tools to get the job done efficiently and well, and yes, even for little Sally’s braces.

I just bid a deck project last night after doing a site visit. This project is a partial deck demo and rebuild. It’s an old section of the deck built using untreated lumber and not enough hardware to be safe. It’s falling apart after ~10 years. The customers have it in their mind that the project should cost around $2000. The guy told me that that’s what his “handy” future son in law said it would cost. I told him that $2000 might come close to covering the lumber and hardware and that’s about it, as I was under his deck and inspecting the existing structure. He scoffed a little at that. Lo and behold, the materials estimate using proper (and enough) hardware and fasteners, proper treated lumber and a safe handrail (but not fancy like his wife wants) came in right around $2500. With the fancy handrail materials only is around $4700. That’s before I get paid a cent. While inspecting his deck, I rattled off several of the elements of the building code that I know through experience and stated that I’d build to those standards.

I broke out the labor on the estimate into several categories including demo, structure, decking, stairs and rail so the customer could get an appreciation of how much this actually costs and what they’re paying for. Labor, using my established pricing costs about $4500, which is cheaper than a lot of guys around. They’ll find this out if they can get another contractor interested enough to come take a look at their project. It’s too small for a lot of guys around here.

My bidding software tells me when my customers view an estimate and they both looked at it this morning. No word back yet. I give this one a 30% shot at coming through now and a 75% shot at coming through by the end of summer if their “handy” SIL tries and doesn’t get it done. At that point I’ll do the project for the same price but it’ll be when I get to it and not asap like they want.

By all means, use your “life hacks” to DIY a project but understand that if you can’t get it done you’ll lose time  and likely materials and whatever you paid your “other guy” on the side to fail.

TL/DR: Quit being a cheap bastard and recognize that quality work is important on your bigger projects around the house.

I DIY because my work is higher quality.

I know the thread and post you are subtly referencing and agree. I am a 28 year pro and I fix a lot of half done DIY jobs.

I give the same reverence to the pro mechanics who rarely have to fix a job on my jeep that I *almost* got right. The same respect should go to us small-time carpenters/contractors.

I wouldn't DIY a deck for the reasons you've outlined.  I've seen it end badly many times.

I’m going to take this advice so hopefully one day I’ll be able to suck my own dick!

A man has to know his own limitations.

That said, I don't understand why decks are a common problem. Of all the DIY stuff I've done, I found it to be among the more straightforward.

Do a little reading about IBC standards, watch a few videos about the start to finish process, pick your material and do a little noodling over some span tables, sketch out your design and away you go.

I've built a handful of them on my houses at this point, including one that was 14 feet off the ground and engineered to 100psf. I found they were way easier to make look good than something like sheetrock or interior coping and cabinetry.

I know what stuff cost these days and it isn't cheap.  I am also an engineer and and before engineering school, I completed 3.5 years of architecture and I worked for an architect through college.

I have a contractor that I have been using for 10 years now.  Through those 10 years we have remodeled every room in my house.  He is so good and fair, I dont even ask the price anymore, just say "Jose come over when you can so we can go over the next work I want done" and he gives me a bill at the end of the job.  I pay for the big ticket items such as plumbing and kitchen fixtures, so I get what I want.

I make or buy lunch for his crew every other day, they rather me cook for them, as I am a good cook and they like a home cooked meal.  I provide all the water and they get ice cream every day for afternoon break.  I set them up an area in my garage with a microwave, table and chairs.  Why do I do this?  I like him and his crew, they work their ass off and I get a lot of small scope changes done with no additional cost....

Hang in there

Nothing wrong with DIY.

Nothing wrong with failing at it, and calling a pro (just ask my gunsmith )

It's a punk bitch move to call a pro to get an "estimate" when really all you are doing is trying to get free advice. Fucking read a book or watch a video. Those guys are trying to run a business and feed a family. I fucking hate selfish people who have no respect for others time.

A deck is on my list of things I wouldn't want to DIY (mostly due to how long it would take me versus someone who experienced). Along with roofs, HVAC, windows/doors, and sewer line stuff.

Decks are a common problem because people don’t read and understand the code, much less know what a span table is and how SYP is different than #2 Fir.

Certainly. I didn’t want to mess with HVAC so I installed a wood stove

I also won’t rewire a 200A electric service because I’m not knowledgeable enough. I can, have and will diagnose and replace bad circuit breakers, wire in new outlets including 220v, etc. For myself only. Never electrical for money because I’m not licensed.

I believe Red Addair was quoted, “If you think it’s expensive to hire a professional, wait till you hire an amateur.”

I have a project I'm planning.

I have a 300 square foot slab back porch that has a roof over it. I want to turn it into a four season room. Only need two walls put up, and a wood framing over the concrete slab for the floor. Two doors to the outside would also be desired.

What do you think the ballpark cost would be?

Room would need a minisplit put in as well.

We want to go with professional rather than just a handyman because we're worries a out how to keep water from intruding into the home as the slab is quite level with ground level.

We have a bonus room that was actually previously built on a part of that same porch. But it's a room you have to go through the master bedroom to get to...making it an undesirable use case for another bed room.

The addition would provide additional living space in the form of a family room/dining room...while also providing opportunity to create a separate entrance for that back bedroom/bonus room.

I hope I'm not stepping on your toes asking you this.

FPNI.  While there are some contractors who are skilled and do great work, most are absolute shit shows.  Their workers are often illegal aliens with little to no training.  There is the occasional craftsman, but that is the rare exception, not the norm.  

I DIY because I do a better job, can guarantee my results, and pay far less so I can use premium materials.  I used a contractor to do my roof on a house we owned 20 years ago.  They offered a 3 year warranty and had a solid reputation in the area.  Hurricane season was upon us so I didn’t have time to do it by myself.  They did a great job, but I still squirmed having to pay so damned much.

I understand what you're saying, but building a deck isn't exactly rocket surgery.

Not all "professionals" are professional

Contractors who know they can scam a client - will, and laugh about it.

They don't like it when I stand there and watch them work, but your in my house and I make the fucking rules if you want my money.

Professional amateurs do the best work.

Yeah.. dealing with this at the family cabin right now.. sometime in the last 30 years the deck was built by a local mountain town "professional" for previous owners.  My parents bought it in 2012, nothing in the inspection.  The untreated lumber started rotting away over the last few wet winters/monsoon.  Which got me under it and looking.. and oh boy, it is a mix of some pressure treated, mostly untreated..  I was surprised it lasted this long.

we dont need no stinking brackets... or proper cut length of lumber for that matter
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Oops, missed!
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parts of the deck got bouncy... here is why.
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My father and I did some temp replacement with treated stuff.  You can see original treated on the right, and untreated left.
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The whole thing is going to get redone, by a professional contractor.  Its gonna get extended a bit and redesigned too.

Sounds like somebody picked a good future son in law (willing to do all that work for free).

Not stepping on toes at all. So many questions though.

Tying into existing roof? Free standing? Is the pad on foundation or just a basic poured pad?

Room additions start around $200/sq ft in my area. Can easily go to $300

Or a suck up.

Ooh. That’s a bad one…

Make sure the contractor knows what a ledger board and a measuring tape are.

Amen to that.

Wait, is that just attatched to the siding with no ledger board?

This...the guy with two left hands (which is what i call most contractors for good reason) who came out to quote a thousand bucks labor to replace my hot water tank with a high efficiency unit, found out quick that it was worth my time to simply take the day off and run to Homeless Despot for a DIY life hack that saved me a bunch of money and higher quality job.

YMMV.

Yes..

It goes through the siding into the sill plate... well it goes into wood of some sort under the siding.  I am assuming its the sill plate.  I am afraid.

I just looked at a job last week.
I had only been in the house for about 2 minutes and the guy says…. “The problem is, I tried to do it myself and messed it up, so I called a “contractor “ to fix it and they did just as bad of a job and now I need it fixed but I’m pretty much out of money “  
I told him I’m not your guy.

I've built a few large decks in my business, done very well and exceeding code. I don't think about the family on the deck, I think about the party they'll have in the future with shoulder to shoulder people on it. I sleep well knowing that I'll never get "that" call.

I got this....
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I haven't called a contractor in the 13 years I've owned this place. I don't plan to start now.

This.

plenty of examples of shitty professional work out there.

My custom built, three year old home has some real WTF going on as well.

Our pump house, for example; three wire 240 out to the pump, two hots and a ground. Well guy, putting in a water softener, just pulled one hot leg and neutral off a cut off power strip (like the tan household ones with 6 plugs into it) to plug in the water softener... And then plugged the neutral from the water softener into the the ground.

I'm guessing that's not kosher, code, or anything approaching safe.

Thanks for reminding me why I do my own projects.

Yep I’ve built a few decks in my day. Always over engineered them so you could park a truck on them. Whenever we drive by our old homes they’re still in use.

The more you breakdown a bid, the more it gets scrutinized, and usually used against you. I would stop that practice and give lump sums with enough detail in the scope of work to protect you, such as brand names for decking or railing systems, but that is it. Qualify what you don't have in your bid to protect yourself, but you should not be giving an itemized lumber package in a bid.

It also makes no sense in the current world where you can find videos on how to do literally anything online.

There was a video that got pulled off youtube a couple years ago with a chemist showing people how to enrich radioactive elements. He got a not so fun visit from the FBI.

Good.
Cheap.
Fast.

Pick one.

Like I said in the other thread, you have to have some experience to at least know what you're looking at.

When we hired our kitchen reno done, the contractor loved us because we knew what we wanted, knew what it cost, and had the money for it.

The sad thing is I have coworkers who spent about the same money (yes buying tools counts) and took forever to DIY.

"My brother in law was an electrician in the mill/mine. He helped me out."

As soon as you see MSHA tape, you know.

Amateur electricians are a bit like GD.

"I shall endanger myself and my family to save $$, cause I watched a youtube vid."

As a homeowner I know my limitations and I appreciate the pros; what I don’t appreciate is when I call out a contractor, he sees the house and property, and the zip code, and my $500 job becomes a $1500+ job because reasons.

Among the reasons: it’s a nice house, they must have money.

I DIY at home and teach carpentry (in the field, not a classroom) at work.

People DIY then fuck it up and try to copy my work. They save money but burn through an incredible amount of time.

Building codes?

The GD laughs at your building codes! The General Discussion is all you need to know about residential electrical work for certain.

We had guests once, water went cold. Called the pros. They sent two guys. They swapped the thermostats on the water heater, then they realized their volt meters went bad, 0 volts. Magically, flipping the breaker it worked so they left and sent a bill. Turns out, it went cold again that night. I figured it out myself from a hint on youtube in an obscure video-  the breaker was bad and why I saw 0v myself at the heater. It was two 120 legs in phase. Since I paid attention in electricity, magnetism and thermodynamics classes in skrool, that made sense. Replaced the breaker, all good. Then replaced the entire panel to a new one.

Usually it's the electricians telling everyone they're going to kill themselves.  

Now do roofing.

I mean, I'm not saying it's difficult or complicated. I've been watching functional retards do it for 35+ years with minimal issues. But I'm still amazed at what some homeowners think won't leak.  

Then when they call me it's "it can't be that, I just fixed that". LOL....

This is also my experience. And I'm planning on re-doing a deck this year . Honestly tho, there are things I'd like to outsource, but I do a better job. And I hate paying for the privilege of getting pissed off. I do outsource when it's over my head. And I do appreciate true pros who care.



Yep.

I get this with cars. About a 50/50 chance they leave it or not after giving a starting price to unfubar it.

OP

Really want to see a diy thread with GD hilarity? Wait for an auto tech to start one . Won't be me

“Pro” builders jerk trades around more than any homeowner, lol.  Be glad you’re mostly dealing with homeowners OP.

I DIY almost everything around my house nowadays. I just can’t afford to hire professionals.
Went from - “go with the best of 3 bids” to “wow, can’t afford the lowest bid anymore” to “YouTube what ya got, here I come”. So far, I’ve not found anything I can’t do with a little research and careful planning. I’m also enjoying the sense of accomplishment.

I mostly agree with you on this. There are a lot of projects out of my league and I won't hesitate to hire a pro.

There are also a lot of projects done by a "pro" that I have had to correct because I didn't do it myself the first time.

But yes, doing things correctly the first time cost $$$. However, people should be skeptical. Not all contractors are honest with their work and pricing like you say you are.