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Posted: 3/9/2024 2:52:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sheltot]
I really couldn't decide if this question was more fitting in this subforum or in the investing subforum.
But I figured that the truth of the matter is that I just like silver, and I'm wondering if it would make a good hedge against an economic recession, or if I'm just going way out of my way trying to justify buying it. I've not crunched the numbers on the ways buy silver, the fees, shipping costs etc etc. I currently have some cash as a just-in-case fund. If I could put that into silver and still be able to turn it into cash quickly and easily should I need it, then I want to look at that. The cash is losing value, I know that. I have no interest in coin collecting. I do have a small pile of junk silver just because I like the stuff. I probably paid too much for it as I just picked up silver quarters and such as I had some spare money available, at the local coin shop. 
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Posted: 3/9/2024 1:44:58 AM EDT
[#1]
This is the EE.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2024 1:47:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Lougotzz]
[#2]
I own some silver for an alternative currency. If you want metals for storage of wealth buy gold. Silver is a gutter metal. Everything is inflated but silver is not. Silver should be 75-100 a Troy oz Or more. It might pop one day but don’t hold your breath. The nice thing about silver it will never be worth nothing. The US dollar it on its way out sorry to say.
ETA wrong forum |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 4:30:01 AM EDT
[#3]
I can’t imagine a worse emergency savings account or hedge against inflation.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2024 4:36:07 AM EDT
[#4]
Not at all
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2024 7:21:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: grendelbane]
[#5]
Looking at the charts covering the last few years silver did act as a hedge. Not the best hedge, gold reacted quicker 16 years ago, though silver eventually out-performed gold, for a short time. Doesn't mean it will repeat that in the future, it might. Gold normally reacts quicker to a drop in real interest rates.
Silver is better than nothing, though. I wouldn't want silver as my only emergency savings, but as a part of it, it would be OK. Never know what will happen next time. 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2024 8:04:43 AM EDT
[#6]
I've been asked a few times is gold and or silver a good investment? My reply has been: "buy lead!" People look at me funny and can't figure out what I mean. I explain to them: "If the Shit-Hits-The-Fan, lead (i.e. bullets) will buy you a lot more of life's necessities. Then gold or silver ever will....
 ModelAbob  "To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth" - J. Cooper "Freedom is not just another dirty word" - MAB |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2024 8:32:08 AM EDT
[#7]
US currency is slowly eroding. The people selling the gold/silver want as payment your US money. If the gold/silver is worth what they say it is or will be, they'd keep it for themselves and not sell it.
If you have gold/silver, just how are you going to use it as payment. Saw off a sliver or two to pay? Or turn it in for what the going currency is and probably either lose value or just break even? They people getting your gold/silver want to make money too. Either way we lose. |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 8:33:56 AM EDT
[#8]
I don't think it's a good hedge against inflation. Watch some stacker vids on YouTube. Coin dealers say if the price gets too high they won't buy it. But... as something to trade if the economy collapses for a short period of time before the crypto dollar is created.. it could have limited usefulness. The same could be said of anything that has trade value.
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Posted: 3/9/2024 9:35:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Economic recession? No. Precious metals are a poor investment.
I think of gold as a bit of a hedge. It's also neat. Like any other collectible, it'll lose to the S&P pretty much every time. |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 9:43:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By armabill: US currency is slowly eroding. The people selling the gold/silver want as payment your US money. If the gold/silver is worth what they say it is or will be, they'd keep it for themselves and not sell it. If you have gold/silver, just how are you going to use it as payment. Saw off a sliver or two to pay? Or turn it in for what the going currency is and probably either lose value or just break even? They people getting your gold/silver want to make money too. Either way we lose. Your argument doesn't make sense; you could say the same for any transaction involving a durable good with a market price. Depending on what you're buying, a tenth is a very reasonable size of payment, and there are plenty of people out there happy to accept gold in a trade. You are correct that PMs are an even worse value when you buy them in small quantities from a dealer. Last shop I was in had silver at 2X spot. You'd be better off with copper than that, lol. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/9/2024 10:53:33 AM EDT
[#11]
No, those stupid bankers around the world swallowing up gold this last year are fools.
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Posted: 3/9/2024 10:14:15 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hammer1995: I can’t imagine a worse emergency savings account or hedge against inflation. Agreed. PM's are a terrible hedge against inflation or recession. This has been proven time and again. Cognitive dissonance runs rampant, because people who just "like" metals ignore real data and only subscribe to bias confirming reports. PM's are for those who believe in a complete and total financial collapse of the US government and dollar, as a way to preserve wealth until a new currency is established at some point post collapse. It is an interesting theory. But for anything else..... complete nonsense. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2024 1:15:59 AM EDT
[#13]
I really don't think PMs are smart as a person's investment, hedge against inflation or as an emergency fund.
that being said I own both, I enjoy owning them and they can be easily transported and sold for local currency if the need should arise. just to throw some numbers out there, I am well into 7 figures in various investment/savings but only hold around 40 k in PMs |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 1:19:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Jozsi]
[#14]
Its funny you mentioned this.
I was helping a friend who was down on his luck. He had some pure gold coins and some gold bars to sell. We wandered to the various coin and gold shops and none of them wanted to give him the market value of the coins at their weight. So FUCKEN TELL ME how this is supposed to work when the economy goes to shit?? I did it for half a fucken day wandering Portland and Beaverton and couldn't find squat a decent shop wanting to buying it at fair market price but more like 30 to 40 percent less. So tell me some wise motherfuckers so I can get some lesson from real smart people on gold.  |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/10/2024 1:40:48 AM EDT
[#15]
We wandered to the various coin and gold shops and none of them wanted to give him the market value of the coins at their weight. I understand your pain. There are really two options, and both have problems. Pack everything up and ship it to Kitco. (Shipping and insurance is expensive). Or, sell peer to peer. This is not as easy as it once would have been, I don't believe there are quite as many gold bugs around as there used to be. There is a third option, which will receive a lot of criticism, but if you are only holding gold as an emergency fund against recession, buy GLD or one of the other ETFs. Yes, it is not in your hands, but you also don't have a problem selling it, either. Also, you can sell call options to generate a little income while you wait for that recession. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 4:25:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jozsi: Its funny you mentioned this. I was helping a friend who was down on his luck. He had some pure gold coins and some gold bars to sell. We wandered to the various coin and gold shops and none of them wanted to give him the market value of the coins at their weight. So FUCKEN TELL ME how this is supposed to work when the economy goes to shit?? I did it for half a fucken day wandering Portland and Beaverton and couldn't find squat a decent shop wanting to buying it at fair market price but more like 30 to 40 percent less. So tell me some wise motherfuckers so I can get some lesson from real smart people on gold. Sell online to JMBullion or the like. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 7:31:24 AM EDT
[#17]
PM’s are more like an insurance policy. Kind of throwing away money, but it might come in damned handy in the right circumstances. Probably the thing you add last to your list of assets, and only then after you are realistic about what they might actually be good for.
You would have to look pretty far to find anyone who knows what gold/silver is, what it is worth, and who actually wants it. Add in fucking China pumping out fake gold/silver, and who can blame someone for not wanting it anyhow? |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 9:07:22 AM EDT
[#18]
I found the only people consistently making money with PMs are the dealers. Between paying a premium over spot when you buy and getting less than spot when you sell, they always make their profit. Makes sense for them but sucks to be the guy paying on both ends.
I had been stocking a few ounces a month mostly for shits and giggles. Then I did the math and realized I needed a ~56% growth to just break even, so I all but got out of it. I traded it FtF for an expensive to me watch. Now I have a bunch of money tied up in fancy metals but at least I get to look at it at work sometimes. That said, I am thinking eventually of a PM watch. A nice way to store emergency "equity" in a discreet and easy to transport way. Yeah you'd still need to convert it and take a hit but a solid gold rolex is still worth a good bit of coin anywhere in the world. And getting on a plane with $40k cash/gold is suspicious but much less so on a wrist. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 3:15:51 PM EDT
[#19]
So if you can't sell PMs when you need to, and pay too much when you buy them, what other liquid, physical assets would you buy and hold to protect against the dollar taking a shit/stock market crashing?
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2024 5:05:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Five_Elements: So if you can't sell PMs when you need to, and pay too much when you buy them, what other liquid, physical assets would you buy and hold to protect against the dollar taking a shit/stock market crashing? I don't think there are any. Problem is, when you most want to sell, (chaos, currency chaos, market crash), a lot of other people will want to sell too. I bought I-bonds in the late 90s/late 01 period for this purpose, still have them, and they did feel warm and fuzzy several times, though some people laughed at me. As time went by, they didn't laugh as much though. With their 3 to 3.6% + inflation yield, they worked very well, (especially in the pandemic depths). Sadly, you can't buy any like that anymore. So I am looking for a replacement. You might not consider them as physical assets though. It is a good question, I am interested if any one has a good answer. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 9:13:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By The_Five_Elements: So if you can't sell PMs when you need to, and pay too much when you buy them, what other liquid, physical assets would you buy and hold to protect against the dollar taking a shit/stock market crashing? I’d propose that hard assets might be more useful than cash, gold, or beanie babies. A paid off house that is in a good state of repair, other real estate, a quality car (or three) that keep good resale value, and the tools/equipment you need to maintain your house and cars would go a long way towards protecting you from economic troubles. Also as little debt as possible - if you have no debt to service you can live on a relatively small income even if the great depression happens again. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 9:41:01 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Phillbilly: Not at all |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 12:03:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: onthebreeze]
[#23]
Originally Posted By Jozsi: Its funny you mentioned this. I was helping a friend who was down on his luck. He had some pure gold coins and some gold bars to sell. We wandered to the various coin and gold shops and none of them wanted to give him the market value of the coins at their weight. So FUCKEN TELL ME how this is supposed to work when the economy goes to shit?? I did it for half a fucken day wandering Portland and Beaverton and couldn't find squat a decent shop wanting to buying it at fair market price but more like 30 to 40 percent less. So tell me some wise motherfuckers so I can get some lesson from real smart people on gold. To answer your question, in the SHTF situation some people think of, you trade the gold for things, not USD. People who are into the same things you are may be happy to trade gold, even today. Like any item, converting it to and from USD will usually cost you. Your best case scenario is finding an individual who will give you USD for gold at spot price. Originally Posted By Morgan321: I’d propose that hard assets might be more useful than cash, gold, or beanie babies. A paid off house that is in a good state of repair, other real estate, a quality car (or three) that keep good resale value, and the tools/equipment you need to maintain your house and cars would go a long way towards protecting you from economic troubles. Also as little debt as possible - if you have no debt to service you can live on a relatively small income even if the great depression happens again. Great advice. Minimizing the amount of cash you need to survive is an excellent idea. |
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Posted: 3/12/2024 6:20:09 PM EDT
[#24]
For the various reasons listed I have abandoned any plans of purchasing precious metals as any kind of a savings account or whatever. And I guess the other thing about it is during the crash of 08 we ended up with lots and lots and lots of people who did not have any cash. If nobody has any cash then nobody is going to be spending on silver. I guess being able to survive for a while without money coming in is really the best plan.
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Posted: 3/12/2024 7:18:57 PM EDT
[#25]
PMs are for a complete societal breakdown, not a simple recession. Junk silver will be the currency of choice at the makeshift markets that will spring up in the cul-de-sacs after the smoke clears and the bodies get hauled off.
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Posted: 3/12/2024 8:25:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HEATSEAKER: Junk silver will be the currency of choice at the makeshift markets that will spring up in the cul-de-sacs after the smoke clears and the bodies get hauled off. IMHO, this is a pipe dream. But not saying one should not prepare for it, as an insurance policy, either. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 7:31:06 AM EDT
[#27]
Originally jumped on the band wagon of buying silver in case the economy crashes, but if you think about it, the scenario doesn't make sense.
First of all, if it gets that bad, the system and people aren't set up to start bartering with silver. Second, if it was truly that bad, it would be kaos and firearms are going to be more useful than silver. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 8:03:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: onthebreeze]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HEATSEAKER: PMs are for a complete societal breakdown, not a simple recession. Junk silver will be the currency of choice at the makeshift markets that will spring up in the cul-de-sacs after the smoke clears and the bodies get hauled off. Maybe a little, but "denser" is better, and drugs (all kinds) and alcohol have shown to be pretty good in localized collapses around the world. I'd bet junk silver ends up somewhere below loaded ammo (on average) in terms of value/weight. |
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Posted: 3/13/2024 9:25:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By onthebreeze: Maybe a little, but "denser" is better, and drugs (all kinds) and alcohol have shown to be pretty good in localized collapses around the world. I'd bet junk silver ends up somewhere below loaded ammo (on average) in terms of value/weight. But alcohol is sooooooo easy to make. Got sugar (from anywhere) and yeast? There you go. I think it’s what most civilizations make after huts for prostitutes. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 4:34:02 AM EDT
[#30]
I still buy and sell PMs as a form of a hobby. I like 90% silver stuff for the historic value but, I see zero use for it in times of emergency or as a barter item. Can it be used as a supplemental savings? Sure, but as others have already pointed out, you can be hard pressed to make your money back if you needed to sell. Im in the process now of selling some of my stuff to buy another suppressor and two new host.
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USA
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Posted: 3/14/2024 12:04:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lougotzz: I own some silver for an alternative currency. If you want metals for storage of wealth buy gold. Silver is a gutter metal. Everything is inflated but silver is not. Silver should be 75-100 a Troy oz Or more. It might pop one day but don’t hold your breath. The nice thing about silver it will never be worth nothing. The US dollar it on its way out sorry to say. ETA wrong forum Wrong. Gold isn't a wealth builder. Gold simply hedges inflation and preserves wealth. Silver is an absolute junk metal. |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 12:32:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steviesterno16: But alcohol is sooooooo easy to make. Got sugar (from anywhere) and yeast? There you go. I think it’s what most civilizations make after huts for prostitutes. Yes, but it is consumable, and also useful for non-drinking purposes. If there weren't huge distilleries turning it out by the truckload, it'd get pretty valuable. |
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Posted: 3/14/2024 4:01:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By onthebreeze: Maybe a little, but "denser" is better, and drugs (all kinds) and alcohol have shown to be pretty good in localized collapses around the world. I'd bet junk silver ends up somewhere below loaded ammo (on average) in terms of value/weight. I'm talking as a compact universal currency, not barter. You want to trade your bundle of tobacco for my bushel of corn but I don't smoke or want to deal with the headache of finding another trade to get rid of the tobacco so I will just take some of your silver coins instead. $1.50 face value. Deal. Thank you and have a nice day. |
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Posted: 3/18/2024 9:19:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: VidaEterna]
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hammer1995: I can’t imagine a worse emergency savings account or hedge against inflation. Disagree. While I’m not a PM fan, I hodl it. What would an ounce of gold buy in 1924? A new shiny colt pistol. What will an ounce of gold buy in 2024? A new shiny colt pistol. This is the mentality I use to buy PM’s. You will not get rich holding PM’s. You might get rich off of the premiums of selling them, if you're in the business. Gold is a store of wealth and a hedge against SWIFT crashing, or some other odd calamity. You also must protect what you hodl. PM’s are a hedge against inflation, normal Inflation. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/25/2024 6:29:57 AM EDT
[#35]
The issue here is what do people ACTUALLY do.
What they DO is trash talk precious metals and say they're not a good hedge, while holding unused CASH in a non-interest bearing account in perpetuity before investing pieces of it in stocks and bonds. THATS the problem. Are PMs a perfect, anything? NO. Are they better than letting Bank of America use your checking account as a slush fund to make their money off of while hitting you for fees and giving you nothing? So, EVERYONE would be better off putting ALL their cash into PMs ALL the time as opposed to this in theory and in practice, but we never will......... |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 8:20:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sacrosanct-Potato: The issue here is what do people ACTUALLY do. What they DO is trash talk precious metals and say they're not a good hedge, while holding unused CASH in a non-interest bearing account in perpetuity before investing pieces of it in stocks and bonds. THATS the problem. Are PMs a perfect, anything? NO. Are they better than letting Bank of America use your checking account as a slush fund to make their money off of while hitting you for fees and giving you nothing? So, EVERYONE would be better off putting ALL their cash into PMs ALL the time as opposed to this in theory and in practice, but we never will......... Silver may consistently beat actual cash, but how many people have been smart enough to end up with a big pile of actual cash, but are not smart enough to know that money should be in some kind of investments? There's an awful lot of choices besides silver. Lots of those choices are pretty safe and perform better than silver. |
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USA
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Posted: 3/31/2024 8:43:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Someone said it's good for starting over from a major financial lose they are other good uses but this seems to be one grate option. Maybe starting over after a divorce??
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Posted: 3/31/2024 8:51:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Silver may consistently beat actual cash, but how many people have been smart enough to end up with a big pile of actual cash, but are not smart enough to know that money should be in some kind of investments? There's an awful lot of choices besides silver. Lots of those choices are pretty safe and perform better than silver. True. I personally would never go over 10% of wealth in PM's. I agree with Warren Buffet that assets need to earn their keep while you sleep through appreciation and/or income. Looking pretty and barely keeping up with inflation doesn't cut it. |
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NE, USA
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Posted: 4/2/2024 1:53:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hammer1995: I can’t imagine a worse emergency savings account or hedge against inflation. you don't care much for history books do you |
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USA
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Posted: 4/2/2024 2:01:33 PM EDT
[#40]
An emergency fund is assessable on short notice.
Silver is not easily converted in an emergency. Have 1% in your portfolio. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/4/2024 7:34:22 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By N1150x: An emergency fund is assessable on short notice. Silver is not easily converted in an emergency. Have 1% in your portfolio. I'd say 1% to 2% in physical metals is about right, AFTER you got spun up for YEARS about tax advantaged accounts, index funds, managed accounts, retirement planning, estate planning, etc. It's the folks that have credit card and car debt, make crappy incomes, and dont know what retirement or anything is, that usually think running down to a coin store and buying metals like Chris Rock asking to buy a BBQ rib of one dollar that constitute probably 90% of precious metal holders and that's the tragedy |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 8:49:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sacrosanct-Potato: I'd say 1% to 2% in physical metals is about right, AFTER you got spun up for YEARS about tax advantaged accounts, index funds, managed accounts, retirement planning, estate planning, etc. It's the folks that have credit card and car debt, make crappy incomes, and dont know what retirement or anything is, that usually think running down to a coin store and buying metals like Chris Rock asking to buy a BBQ rib of one dollar that constitute probably 90% of precious metal holders and that's the tragedy I agree with all this. I can be wildly speculative with ~3% of my net worth, between meme stocks, crypto, PMs, whatever. But that's after emergency food storages, paid off vehicles, retirement accounts, etc are taken care of. |
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Posted: 4/4/2024 11:42:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: onthebreeze]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sacrosanct-Potato: I'd say 1% to 2% in physical metals is about right, AFTER you got spun up for YEARS about tax advantaged accounts, index funds, managed accounts, retirement planning, estate planning, etc. It's the folks that have credit card and car debt, make crappy incomes, and dont know what retirement or anything is, that usually think running down to a coin store and buying metals like Chris Rock asking to buy a BBQ rib of one dollar that constitute probably 90% of precious metal holders and that's the tragedy Gold would be what, 6%, over the last 3 years? Definitely not something to prioritize. Virtually any index would have beaten that. Over the same time frame, silver has gone down. I have guns that are a better "investment" than that. I had a kayak that performed better than silver and was probably easier to liquidate. 
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