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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 9:38:21 AM EDT
Wonder if anyone here could help?
This is for a kids razor toy If I had a 12v battery of a lower amp hour, and a 12v batt that is significantly newer/ stronger If wired in using the factory wiring - parallel Could they be charged with the standard charging method, and would they charge and discharge to not screw one of them up? |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 9:51:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: StaccatoC2]
[#1]
With a dumb charger you should be okay to charge em, as the charger just puts out the voltage needed to charge em. As the smaller gets close to charged its acceptance rate changes as the voltage of the battery goes up. Using a smart charger that changes voltage as it charges would over charge the smaller one.
Discharge if low enough draw they should be okay as well. The larger battery will be able to provide higher amperage longer, keeping its voltage higher therefore providing more power. The issue is higher draw loads, anything over say 5c, or 1/5 of the smaller ampacity could be a problem. Meaning a 10 hr and a 15 ah battery, dont discharge more than 2a of load, or 24 watts at 12 volts. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 10:44:11 AM EDT
[#2]
What could possibly go wrong?
 E-scooter on charge bursts into flames before a huge explosion |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 10:54:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: TheLookingGlass]
[#3]
OP, to be clear are we talking about some sort of Sealed Lead Acid (gell cell) battery and not another type like li-po? Because different battery types require vastly different charging methods and charging a li-po as if it were a SLA will probably result in fire.
You need to be sure of what you have before anyone can make a safe recommendation. What kind of razor is the device? |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 10:58:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Austin4130]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLookingGlass: OP, to be clear are we talking about some sort of Sealed Lead Acid (gell cell) battery and not another type like li-po? Because different battery types require vastly different charging methods and charging a li-po as if it were a SLA will probably result in fire. You need to be sure of what you have before anyone can make a safe recommendation. What kind of razor is the device? @TheLookingGlass One is a common 12V 7ah lead acid battery like you’d find in kids ride on toys, deer feeders, generators The other is an 12V Everstart platinum TX9 AGM battery One of my goobers at work bought the more expensive everstart battery for a generator and it was too big. Kid is wanting more range from his razor so I was considering swapping the Everstart in, and possibly a 2nd ever start to give him more range for now Dirt quad 4wheeler or SX500 dirt bike |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 11:04:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Austin4130: @TheLookingGlass One is a common 12V 7ah lead acid battery like you’d find in kids ride on toys, deer feeders, generators The other is an 12V Everstart platinum TX9 AGM battery One of my goobers at work bought the more expensive everstart battery for a generator and it was too big. Kid is wanting more range from his razor so I was considering swapping the Everstart in, and possibly a 2nd ever start to give him more range for now Dirt quad 4wheeler or SX500 dirt bike Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Austin4130: Originally Posted By TheLookingGlass: OP, to be clear are we talking about some sort of Sealed Lead Acid (gell cell) battery and not another type like li-po? Because different battery types require vastly different charging methods and charging a li-po as if it were a SLA will probably result in fire. You need to be sure of what you have before anyone can make a safe recommendation. What kind of razor is the device? @TheLookingGlass One is a common 12V 7ah lead acid battery like you’d find in kids ride on toys, deer feeders, generators The other is an 12V Everstart platinum TX9 AGM battery One of my goobers at work bought the more expensive everstart battery for a generator and it was too big. Kid is wanting more range from his razor so I was considering swapping the Everstart in, and possibly a 2nd ever start to give him more range for now Dirt quad 4wheeler or SX500 dirt bike I thought you were talking about a razor scooter. Those have lithium batteries. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 11:14:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: I thought you were talking about a razor scooter. Those have lithium batteries. Current lineup: Razor dirt quad Razor sx500 dirt bike Razor crazy cart They all have those 12v deer feeder type batteries |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 11:59:00 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: I thought you were talking about a razor scooter. Those have lithium batteries. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By Austin4130: Originally Posted By TheLookingGlass: OP, to be clear are we talking about some sort of Sealed Lead Acid (gell cell) battery and not another type like li-po? Because different battery types require vastly different charging methods and charging a li-po as if it were a SLA will probably result in fire. You need to be sure of what you have before anyone can make a safe recommendation. What kind of razor is the device? @TheLookingGlass One is a common 12V 7ah lead acid battery like you’d find in kids ride on toys, deer feeders, generators The other is an 12V Everstart platinum TX9 AGM battery One of my goobers at work bought the more expensive everstart battery for a generator and it was too big. Kid is wanting more range from his razor so I was considering swapping the Everstart in, and possibly a 2nd ever start to give him more range for now Dirt quad 4wheeler or SX500 dirt bike I thought you were talking about a razor scooter. Those have lithium batteries. It really depends. "Razor" has become a catch all term to mean small electric personal vehicle. There is the brand "razor" and there is the generic term. Sort of like how everyone calls a tissue a"kleenex". I thought he was talking about a razor scooter too FWIW. In all honesty there's probably a hundreds of different generic razor brands running around out there with about every battery chemistry you could think of from SLA, li-po li-ion etc etc so...yeah.... |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 12:26:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Austin4130: @TheLookingGlass One is a common 12V 7ah lead acid battery like you’d find in kids ride on toys, deer feeders, generators The other is an 12V Everstart platinum TX9 AGM battery One of my goobers at work bought the more expensive everstart battery for a generator and it was too big. Kid is wanting more range from his razor so I was considering swapping the Everstart in, and possibly a 2nd ever start to give him more range for now Dirt quad 4wheeler or SX500 dirt bike I'm guessing no body will tell you that you can do it for liability reasons concerning kids toys but I can tell you I have mixed AGM and SLA batteries in my diesel truck and it worked fine. In theory different types of lead acid batteries should have slightly different charging voltages, but in reality they seem to work fine in parallel. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 12:37:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AZ_Sky]
[#9]
If you know for sure that the batteries are AGM and SLA and are the same voltage then yes, they can be wired in parallel, be charged in parallel, and be used in parallel.
Both batteries use the same chemistry so they can be charged with the same charger in parallel. However - if you want to install them in parallel, I would install them with a battery disconnect switch so when they aren't being used or charged together, they are disconnected from each other so they don't self-discharge into each other. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 12:43:19 PM EDT
[#10]
In parallel? Pussy. Put 'em in series and give the kid a thrill.
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Posted: 3/29/2024 12:50:16 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLookingGlass: I'm guessing no body will tell you that you can do it for liability reasons concerning kids toys but I can tell you I have mixed AGM and SLA batteries in my diesel truck and it worked fine. In theory different types of lead acid batteries should have slightly different charging voltages, but in reality they seem to work fine in parallel. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TheLookingGlass: Originally Posted By Austin4130: @TheLookingGlass One is a common 12V 7ah lead acid battery like you’d find in kids ride on toys, deer feeders, generators The other is an 12V Everstart platinum TX9 AGM battery One of my goobers at work bought the more expensive everstart battery for a generator and it was too big. Kid is wanting more range from his razor so I was considering swapping the Everstart in, and possibly a 2nd ever start to give him more range for now Dirt quad 4wheeler or SX500 dirt bike I'm guessing no body will tell you that you can do it for liability reasons concerning kids toys but I can tell you I have mixed AGM and SLA batteries in my diesel truck and it worked fine. In theory different types of lead acid batteries should have slightly different charging voltages, but in reality they seem to work fine in parallel. It isn't a different charge voltage. It's different internal resistance in the battery, which causes them to have different voltage drops across them. Given the same voltage from the charger, each will measure a different value when measured pole to pole, and therefore, different charge current. The point being, they will each charge at their own rate, and finish in their own time. Voltage is also known as "potential". Current is what charges the battery. Current = voltage divided by the internal resistance of the battery. Different batteries have different internal resistance, so the current will be different, given the same voltage. That's why it's okay to charge lead-acid batteries in parallel. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 12:53:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dolomite]
[#12]
Technically, those are both lead acid batteries.
But, batteries of different aH ratings, different vintages, even different manufacturing lots, don't always play together so awesomely. They will fight each other - the battery with 11v will suck the charge from the 12v until they are both 11v - and then everybody loses. 12 Volt PbA (lead-acid) isn't horribly dangerous to play with (compared to Li), so go nuts and have fun. Stop charging if you smell rotten eggs or if anything starts to feel too hot to touch. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 1:03:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dolomite: They will fight each other - the battery with 11v will suck the charge from the 12v until they are both 11v - and then everybody loses. The voltages will equalize, but the charge will still be there. It will discharge the 12 volt, but charge the 11. A 12 and 11 will end up somewhere in between, not at 11. As suggested, a way to switch between them would prevent it, but you'll need a big switch. A plug you can swap might be better. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 1:07:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: The voltages will equalize, but the charge will still be there. It will discharge the 12 volt, but charge the 11. A 12 and 11 will end up somewhere in between, not at 11. As suggested, a way to switch between them would prevent it, but you'll need a big switch. A plug you can swap might be better. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By Dolomite: They will fight each other - the battery with 11v will suck the charge from the 12v until they are both 11v - and then everybody loses. The voltages will equalize, but the charge will still be there. It will discharge the 12 volt, but charge the 11. A 12 and 11 will end up somewhere in between, not at 11. As suggested, a way to switch between them would prevent it, but you'll need a big switch. A plug you can swap might be better. A high current disconnect switch isn't that big or expensive, and easy to install.  
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Posted: 3/29/2024 1:23:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Sky: A high current disconnect switch isn't that big or expensive, and easy to install. www.amazon.com/dp/B0B17BGHPS Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZ_Sky: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By Dolomite: They will fight each other - the battery with 11v will suck the charge from the 12v until they are both 11v - and then everybody loses. The voltages will equalize, but the charge will still be there. It will discharge the 12 volt, but charge the 11. A 12 and 11 will end up somewhere in between, not at 11. As suggested, a way to switch between them would prevent it, but you'll need a big switch. A plug you can swap might be better. A high current disconnect switch isn't that big or expensive, and easy to install. www.amazon.com/dp/B0B17BGHPS I've never looked at them, and that price isn't bad. That's what I would do, but that one won't work by itself. You'll need two of those, or a double-throw. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=double+throw+battery+switch&i=industrial&crid=3VJ6CO03JR1VA&sprefix=double+throw+battery+switch%2Cindustrial%2C85&ref=nb_sb_noss |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 1:24:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nvroundman: In parallel? Pussy. Put 'em in series and give the kid a thrill. Lol, we’re going to be upgrading the dirt bike significantly for his birthday this year
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Posted: 3/29/2024 1:25:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: I've never looked at them, and that price isn't bad. That's what I would do, but that one won't work by itself. You'll need two of those, or a double-throw. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=double+throw+battery+switch&i=industrial&crid=3VJ6CO03JR1VA&sprefix=double+throw+battery+switch%2Cindustrial%2C85&ref=nb_sb_noss Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By AZ_Sky: Originally Posted By ske714: Originally Posted By Dolomite: They will fight each other - the battery with 11v will suck the charge from the 12v until they are both 11v - and then everybody loses. The voltages will equalize, but the charge will still be there. It will discharge the 12 volt, but charge the 11. A 12 and 11 will end up somewhere in between, not at 11. As suggested, a way to switch between them would prevent it, but you'll need a big switch. A plug you can swap might be better. A high current disconnect switch isn't that big or expensive, and easy to install. www.amazon.com/dp/B0B17BGHPS I've never looked at them, and that price isn't bad. That's what I would do, but that one won't work by itself. You'll need two of those, or a double-throw. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=double+throw+battery+switch&i=industrial&crid=3VJ6CO03JR1VA&sprefix=double+throw+battery+switch%2Cindustrial%2C85&ref=nb_sb_noss |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 3/29/2024 1:33:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Originally Posted By Austin4130: Wonder if anyone here could help? This is for a kids razor toy If I had a 12v battery of a lower amp hour, and a 12v batt that is significantly newer/ stronger If wired in using the factory wiring - parallel Could they be charged with the standard charging method, and would they charge and discharge to not screw one of them up? |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:14:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nvroundman: In parallel? Pussy. Put 'em in series and give the kid a thrill. I did that for a nieces barbi jeep years ago, the motor lasted about 15 mins. I dont know why a motor rated for 6 volts ( it had two in parallel ) would fry on 12 volts ( sarcasm ). But the good thing in grainger knew exactly what I did when I walked in the door and knew which 12 volt motor to order. Next problem was it chewed up the plastic wheels in an hour when she stepped on it and they just spun. |
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Posted: 3/29/2024 2:14:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ske714]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hugh1: Not a good idea to ever parallel batteries because if one has a problem like a cell shorts the other will discharge through it at a very current rate with bad results. If you want use a battery isolator. It can be as simple as two diodes that keep the batteries from interacting. Now the problem with this, the diodes drop about .7 volts and you may have to correct for that in your charging system. Schottky diodes only drop about .3 volts. |
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