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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 5:54:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: OHBuckeyes]
I'm about 3/4 of the way through to Hell and Back and frankly struggling with motivation to even finish. Instead of a first person encounter, it feels more like a cheesy Hollywood script, and frankly kind of unbelievable. It contains very few details and a lot of general descriptions. The guys he describes don't sound like real people. The dialogue/conversations aren't interesting and feel fake, a ton of coincidences that seem unlikely, and in every situation so far he is the only one who survives. He is in the direct line of site of multiple machine guns and rifles and they all miss and then he just takes them out with headshots from his carbine. Basically I ran killed these guys, then I ran and killed these guys, and then I ran and killed these guys, and they all missed me.
I always read that Audie didn't want the spotlight and attention, but the guy wrote this book 4 years after the war and starred as himself in a movie within a decade. We say a lot about of positive things about Seal Team 6, but we don't call the guys getting book deals and podcasts humble and trying to deflect attention. I also question some of the official war stories more than I used to after the lies of Lone Survivor, Jessica Lynch, and Pat Tillman. The lies were probably even worse back then because they would be harder to disapprove and morale was more important. I'm not saying he isn't a war hero and he didn't do some extraordinary brave things, I just think his book sucks. And the 10 minutes of the movie I watched seemed pretty lame too... |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 6:01:50 AM EDT
[#1]
You shut yer whore mouth!
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 6:03:25 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By towgunner11H: You shut yer whore mouth! If you are quoting the book, it would go something like, "Yu shut yer hore mouf". |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 6:41:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Everyone's entitled to an opinion. But you are wrong.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 6:44:18 AM EDT
[#4]
Audie Leon Murphy was a legend in his own time
see avatar. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:05:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hbilly: Everyone's entitled to an opinion. But you are wrong. Have you read the book? I have done some research this morning since the initial post and it turns out I was correct, this book feels like a Hollywood script because most of the main characters never existed. One of those based on a true story instead of a true account situations. The definition of a memoir is : a historical account or biography written from personal knowledge or special sources. If you have people in your book that never existed, I don't think calling it a memoir is accurate. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:07:59 AM EDT
[#6]
He was a terrible actor.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:09:15 AM EDT
[#7]
Charles B. MacDonald’s memoir was much more interesting.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:10:43 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By PanzerOfDoom: Charles B. MacDonald's memoir was much more interesting. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:19:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By slimslade: I'll have to check it out. Richard O'Kane's USS Tang and Wahoo books were pretty kick ass. Almost every Vietnam one was good. With the Old Breed was Good. Helmet for my Pillow was meh. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:20:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cincinnatus: He was a terrible actor. The few minutes I have watched on youtube I would have to agree. Although the image of him with an MG34 is certainly pretty badass. |
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MI, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:21:03 AM EDT
[#11]
When the reports of "The Ghost Of Kiev" first came out, everybody here immediately called it out as propaganda, and used the fact Ukraine was using propaganda as proof that they could not be trusted and were actually the "bad guy" in the conflict.
But we still desperately cling to every hero story ever told by the US Military. Because surely OUR government would never embellish or totally make up stories of incredible heroism and sacrifice to inspire other people to put themselves in harms way. Right? |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:29:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ACDer]
[#12]
The best part of the book was Murphy recounting winning the MOH by standing on a burning tank destroyer to use the machine gun to mow down geman infantry. He wrote that it was the first time in weeks that his feet were warm.
I thought the book had a pretty strong anti- war tone to it. His MOH citation "2d Lt. Murphy commanded Company B, which was attacked by 6 tanks and waves of infantry. 2d Lt. Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to prepared positions in a woods, while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him, to his right, 1 of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. 2d Lt. Murphy continued to direct artillery fire which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, 2d Lt. Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer, which was in danger of blowing up at any moment, and employed its .50 caliber machinegun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to German fire from 3 sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate 2d Lt. Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards, only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound, but ignored it and continued the single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he killed or wounded about 50. 2d Lt. Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction, and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective." |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:34:53 AM EDT
[#13]
You have to consider the book was written and movie made when people were more inclined to ingest such things without question. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:36:40 AM EDT
[#14]
Even if Audie just peeled potatoes, every day he peeled potatoes is one more day than I served. Getting home from WWII combat roles in Europe and the Pacific wasn't peeling potatoes and he wasn't famous before he went IIRC. I'm gonna guess there were some true heroics in there to begin with and the story kinda grew from there. I think his story inspired a lot of young people to serve as well so I wouldn't get too invested in the accuracy of his story.
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:41:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OHBuckeyes: Have you read the book? I have done some research this morning since the initial post and it turns out I was correct, this book feels like a Hollywood script because most of the main characters never existed. One of those based on a true story instead of a true account situations. The definition of a memoir is : a historical account or biography written from personal knowledge or special sources. If you have people in your book that never existed, I don't think calling it a memoir is accurate. Yeah, & saw the movie. Never thought about it. He is the most highly decorated soldier of ww2. Went from africa to europe. Don't think all those awards were fake, nor the actions it took to earn them. Good actor, bad actor, don't care. He's a hero & came back home and actually did some good. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:42:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Makarov]
[#16]
In all fairness, it is what people wanted to read/hear/watch in post-war America.
My Mom said it best when commenting about all the war movies and TV shows. Something to the effect of; “people needed to feel it was worth it. Everybody who lived through the war years had known people who were killed. They all wanted to believe that their son, their father, that boy who lived down the street had died doing something important. That their sacrifice had made a difference. People wanted good war stories, not a well sourced historical thesis. The more dead NAZIs and dead Japs, the better. ETA- My Mom was 16yo when WWII ended and was working part time as a telephone operator due to the labor shortage Stateside. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:49:35 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OHBuckeyes: I'll have to check it out. Richard O'Kane's USS Tang and Wahoo books were pretty kick ass. Almost every Vietnam one was good. With the Old Breed was Good. Helmet for my Pillow was meh. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:56:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DarkLordVader]
[#18]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Hell_and_Back_(Murphy_book)
"Although only Murphy's name appears on the book cover, it was a collaboration with writer David "Spec" McClure. After securing a publishing contract in 1947, Murphy and McClure worked on the book through 1948 in Murphy's Hollywood apartment. Murphy did write some of the prose himself, but most of it was in "as told to" style, with the writing left to McClure" I believe he did kick some Nazi ass, but maybe not exactly how the book/movie describes. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:58:27 AM EDT
[#19]
I am thankful that people who did important things or were a part of important times took the time to journal what happened, at least from their perspective.
It takes a lot of time to write a book and it is a big invasion of privacy. Unfortunately many of those who did important things or were a part of important times are not natural writers. Tigers in the Mud was a book I appreciated but understood was limited in literary quality. It probably didn't help that it also needed translation. Thank you for your service Mr. Murphy. Terrible what he had to go through in his later years. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:00:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: crownvic96]
[#20]
Audie Murphy; the only American so bad ass that the only person that could play Audie Murphy in the movie based on the autobiography of Audie Murphy was, Audie Murphy.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:02:01 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Makarov: In all fairness, it is what people wanted to read/hear/watch in post-war America. My Mom said it best when commenting about all the war movies and TV shows. Something to the effect of; “people needed to feel it was worth it. Everybody who lived through the war years had known people who were killed. They all wanted to believe that their son, their father, that boy who lived down the street had died doing something important. That their sacrifice had made a difference. People wanted good war stories, not a well sourced historical thesis. The more dead NAZIs and dead Japs, the better. That makes a lot of sense. I'm inclined to believe the memoir and movie weren't Murphy's idea. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:19:20 AM EDT
[#22]
You think Marcus Luttrell is the only person to have ever had a book made up by a ghost writer with elements of fiction?
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:22:00 AM EDT
[#23]
Brave guy, but he got eaten alive after the war with bad luck, poor money management, and lack of judgement of the quality of people around him. They sucked him dry.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:22:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9divdoc]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ACDer: The best part of the book was Murphy recounting winning the MOH by standing on a burning tank destroyer to use the machine gun to mow down geman infantry. He wrote that it was the first time in weeks that his feet were warm. I thought the book had a pretty strong anti- war tone to it. His MOH citation "2d Lt. Murphy commanded Company B, which was attacked by 6 tanks and waves of infantry. 2d Lt. Murphy ordered his men to withdraw to prepared positions in a woods, while he remained forward at his command post and continued to give fire directions to the artillery by telephone. Behind him, to his right, 1 of our tank destroyers received a direct hit and began to burn. Its crew withdrew to the woods. 2d Lt. Murphy continued to direct artillery fire which killed large numbers of the advancing enemy infantry. With the enemy tanks abreast of his position, 2d Lt. Murphy climbed on the burning tank destroyer, which was in danger of blowing up at any moment, and employed its .50 caliber machinegun against the enemy. He was alone and exposed to German fire from 3 sides, but his deadly fire killed dozens of Germans and caused their infantry attack to waver. The enemy tanks, losing infantry support, began to fall back. For an hour the Germans tried every available weapon to eliminate 2d Lt. Murphy, but he continued to hold his position and wiped out a squad which was trying to creep up unnoticed on his right flank. Germans reached as close as 10 yards, only to be mowed down by his fire. He received a leg wound, but ignored it and continued the single-handed fight until his ammunition was exhausted. He then made his way to his company, refused medical attention, and organized the company in a counterattack which forced the Germans to withdraw. His directing of artillery fire wiped out many of the enemy; he killed or wounded about 50. 2d Lt. Murphy's indomitable courage and his refusal to give an inch of ground saved his company from possible encirclement and destruction, and enabled it to hold the woods which had been the enemy's objective." If anything the movie didn't do his deeds justice because no matter what we don't get to see it from behind Murphy's eyes or God's. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:26:42 AM EDT
[#25]
Originally Posted By OHBuckeyes: I'm about 3/4 of the way through to Hell and Back and frankly struggling with motivation to even finish. Instead of a first person encounter, it feels more like a cheesy Hollywood script, and frankly kind of unbelievable. It contains very few details and a lot of general descriptions. The guys he describes don't sound like real people. The dialogue/conversations aren't interesting and feel fake, a ton of coincidences that seem unlikely, and in every situation so far he is the only one who survives. He is in the direct line of site of multiple machine guns and rifles and they all miss and then he just takes them out with headshots from his carbine. Basically I ran killed these guys, then I ran and killed these guys, and then I ran and killed these guys, and they all missed me. I always read that Audie didn't want the spotlight and attention, but the guy wrote this book 4 years after the war and starred as himself in a movie within a decade. We say a lot about of positive things about Seal Team 6, but we don't call the guys getting book deals and podcasts humble and trying to deflect attention. I also question some of the official war stories more than I used to after the lies of Lone Survivor, Jessica Lynch, and Pat Tillman. The lies were probably even worse back then because they would be harder to disapprove and morale was more important. I'm not saying he isn't a war hero and he didn't do some extraordinary brave things, I just think his book sucks. And the 10 minutes of the movie I watched seemed pretty lame too... You are correct sir |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:26:47 AM EDT
[#26]
The man is a legend. The casualty rates for infantry were horrendous. Read a MOH citation once in a while. The psychiatric casualties alone numbered in the thousands.
Not everyone can live with heroes like him to look up to these days. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:28:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Read this 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:31:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Did he write it? Or have a ghost-writer.
Before or after the movie? How did you come to want to read it? Did someone recommend it? Better to read Solzhenitsyn. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:32:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CenterMass762]
[#29]
I agree, OP. I read it when I was a young man and I wasn't 10% in when I thought, "is he trying to write a bad movie script or what?"
I don't remember any particulars because it was a long time ago but I remember thinking the dialog between people in the book was made up. He was the man but, yeah, the book kind of sucks. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:51:13 AM EDT
[#30]
If you want to read about Audie Murphy then there are plenty of modern biographies out their on him by people who have done extensive research and interviews when possible
All of these biographies confirm that he indeed was a great soldier and earned every medal he received If anything they show him in a human light with many issues he had before, during and after the war. He was very brave, could be mean at times and had a temper/anger issues throughout his life. He could also be kind and considerate too If anything else the other books I have read about him show him even more brave than his movie and book. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:57:13 AM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:58:31 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: I agree, OP. I read it when I was a young man and I wasn't 10% in when I thought, "is he trying to write a bad movie script or what?" I don't remember any particulars because it was a long time ago but I remember thinking the dialog between people in the book was made up. He was the man but, yeah, the book kind of sucks. "Bad movie script" is very relative, they were all bad back then.  Kharn |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:04:02 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OHBuckeyes: this book feels like a Hollywood script It wouldn't be the first time Click To View Spoiler |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:06:43 AM EDT
[#34]
I'm just impressed a Marine could write.
Guy was an ass kicker not a poet, I'd imagine a book he wrote to be suspect as far as literary skills go. Dude was a total bad ass however. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:07:05 AM EDT
[#35]
You have to think he got pushed into a lot of this stuff and he was a huge patriot so he kept doing it despite probably not wanting to. I’m gonna guess he would have otherwise would have preferred to forget about the whole thing as much as possible like everyone else from that gen.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:08:07 AM EDT
[#36]
It was a book of its time. But there should be NO doubt in anyone's mind that Murphy was a 200% bad ass. One does not
amass the amount of medals he won by being an average soldier. He is the 2nd most decorated soldier America has EVER produced, trailing only SGM Daley of the USMC. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:09:36 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: I'm just impressed a Marine could write. Guy was an ass kicker not a poet, I'd imagine a book he wrote to be suspect as far as literary skills go. Dude was a total bad ass however. The Marines turned him down for being too small. He was a 11B in the 3rd ID. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:10:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Palm]
[#38]
The first person recount by someone is always less dramatic then second and third person recounting of events. One reason is the person who is actually recounting what they did has a host of sensory inputs going through their head during the event. Having grown up around men who taught in the Pacific during WWII, in Korea, and Vietnam they almost always start out with a description of the weather that day, then move on to how they perceived their world leading up to the events (I was cold and wet), and then conclude with a simple high level description like, then the ramp on the landing craft splashed open and all hell broke loose. Their story almost always skips ahead to the point after all the fighting took place.
Some say it is a defensive mechanism where horrible events tend to fade from your memory as a method of self preservation. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:16:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: DKUltra]
[#39]
Plus two for
With The Old Breed |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:24:21 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: I'm just impressed a Marine could write. Guy was an ass kicker not a poet, I'd imagine a book he wrote to be suspect as far as literary skills go. Dude was a total bad ass however. Get the fuck out. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:25:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By delemorte: I'm just impressed a Marine could write. Guy was an ass kicker not a poet, I'd imagine a book he wrote to be suspect as far as literary skills go. Dude was a total bad ass however.  |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:25:24 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kharn: "Bad movie script" is very relative, they were all bad back then. Kharn Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kharn: Originally Posted By CenterMass762: I agree, OP. I read it when I was a young man and I wasn't 10% in when I thought, "is he trying to write a bad movie script or what?" I don't remember any particulars because it was a long time ago but I remember thinking the dialog between people in the book was made up. He was the man but, yeah, the book kind of sucks. "Bad movie script" is very relative, they were all bad back then. Kharn Valid point! |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:27:52 AM EDT
[#43]
Audie Murphy was, and still is, a national treasure and we should keep his memory sacred. And there were also many men who did similar deeds who never got the recognition that he did, and we should keep them in mind also.
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:32:52 AM EDT
[#44]
I read the book and watched the movie about 45 yrs ago, when I was kid. As a kid, I thought they were great, I can't really speak constructively of it now.
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Makarov: In all fairness, it is what people wanted to read/hear/watch in post-war America. My Mom said it best when commenting about all the war movies and TV shows. Something to the effect of; “people needed to feel it was worth it. Everybody who lived through the war years had known people who were killed. They all wanted to believe that their son, their father, that boy who lived down the street had died doing something important. That their sacrifice had made a difference. People wanted good war stories, not a well sourced historical thesis. The more dead NAZIs and dead Japs, the better. I bet your mom was spot on. I used to talk my grandma about the war years. As the war went on, the newspapers reported that we were winning and gaining ground. On the homefront, a look out the window showed a lot of blue stars turning to gold. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:34:03 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By delemorte: I'm just impressed a Marine could write. Guy was an ass kicker not a poet, I'd imagine a book he wrote to be suspect as far as literary skills go. Dude was a total bad ass however. https://i.imgur.com/piVZNJG.gif Oh shit.. for some gd reason I thought he was a marine.. so much for my witty comment
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:41:51 AM EDT
[#46]
You expecting Hemingway from a guy who left school in 5th grade to work on a farm and then lied about his age to go to war?
He told his story to his co author who then wrote the majority of the book. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:49:25 AM EDT
[#47]
There is no written depiction that is true, they are all embellishments or outright falsehoods, always have been since the dawn of human history.
Life becomes easier when you realize that everything you are told is some flavor of bullshit. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:53:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Chisum]
[#48]
Embellishment is what Hollywood specializes in. Neither the book nor the movie were meant to be documentaries. Audie was a B-grade actor with B-grade scripts. He made 44 movies, got his siblings out of an orphanage and bought a home for them. He owned several ranches. Not bad for a guy who suffered severe PTSD, had horrific nightmares, slept with a gun under his pillow, and woke up sweating and puking. That he was able to function is a miracle of its own.
Hollywood is full of con artists, leaches, and thieves. However, Audie was the real deal. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:55:11 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chisum: Embellishment is what Hollywood specializes in. Neither the book nor the movie were meant to be documentaries. Audie was a B-grade actor with B-grade scripts. He made 44 movies, got his siblings out of an orphanage and bought a home for them. He owned several ranches. Not bad for a guy who suffered severe PTSD, had horrific nightmares, slept with a gun under his pillow, and woke up sweating and puking. That he was able to function is a miracle of its own. You forgot drug addiction and beat that too. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:57:52 AM EDT
[#50]
 To hell and back |
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