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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:30:41 PM EDT
There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester.
The 1st year of production by Mauser of the Gewehr 98 - have jonesed for one for years, but very hard to find. Earlier Mausers can be rechambered in .308, but there is a report of a barrel coming loose from the action and cartwheeling down the line at a match, killing someone. I don't know the details, but that has always made me leery of rebarreling my 7mm antique Spanish 93 sporter. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. The Swiss 1896 was designed for their earlier paper patched load, but in 1911, the 96s began to be converted to the very modern 7.5x55mm, with new production being designated the Model 11, the converted 96s being named the 96/11. And I have one, having ordered an antique 96/11 while I was in Kuwait that I found at home in good order at the end of my deployment. The .308 runs higher pressures w/ smaller powder capacity for very similar external ballistics, and I'm not planning on running any "light magnum" loads through this. As a legal antique w/ manufacture prior to 1 January 1899, it is not a Title 1 rifle nor C&R eligible, so alterations do not cause it to lose C&R status - it doesn't have any. So - step 1, acquire a .308 barrel blank, and step 2, find a smith willing to rebarrel a 96/11. Suggestions? Advice? |
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:51:47 PM EDT
[#1]
I think Kimber rebarreled some 1896 mausers in 308
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WA, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 7:58:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tangeant]
[#2]
Buy one of the already converted "Alpine" 308 carbines it would be cheaper. Mags also need tbe modified to work with 308.
They shortened orig bbls on the breech end and rethreaded/ chambered. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:01:38 PM EDT
[#3]
Tagged
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:03:59 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tangeant: Buy one of the already converted "Alpine" 308 carbines it would be cheaper. Mags also need tbe modified to work with 308. But it wouldn't be legally antique. Pre 1899 firearms have a unique status under US Federal law. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:29:58 PM EDT
[#5]
I'd just keep it in 7.5 Swiss and use the gunsmith savings for ammo. It'll retain more value as well, should you choose to sell it.
If I had a hard on for cheaper ammo while still having an antique status, I'd find an antique M39. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:31:26 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: I'd just keep it in 7.5 Swiss and use the gunsmith savings for ammo. It'll retain more value as well, should you choose to sell it. If I had a hard on for cheaper ammo while still having an antique status, I'd find an antique M39. So, basically he'll be able to buy like 87 rounds of 7.5x55? |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:31:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: I'd just keep it in 7.5 Swiss and use the gunsmith savings for ammo. It'll retain more value as well, should you choose to sell it. If I had a hard on for cheaper ammo while still having an antique status, I'd find an antique M39. Already have a legally antique Russian produced Mosin. Need to move the fare thee well trigger from the Remington to the Russian. Projects. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:37:12 PM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By backbencher: There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:42:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#9]
Saw mention of Lothar Walther barrels - $.
 ETA: Sent em an email. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 8:49:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seven-Shooter: I have often wondered why Winchester never made the 1895 in .308; a saddle ring carbine, especially in takedown form, in .308 would be awesome. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By backbencher: There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. I have often wondered why Winchester never made the 1895 in .308; a saddle ring carbine, especially in takedown form, in .308 would be awesome. Complex & expensive to make, and LONG out of production by the time .308 came along. I'm of the decidedly minority opinion that we should have taken the Krag, the 1895 Winchester, & the M1917 to France - with spitzer tipped .30-40 Krag ammo.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:23:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Complex & expensive to make, and LONG out of production by the time .308 came along. I'm of the decidedly minority opinion that we should have taken the Krag, the 1895 Winchester, & the M1917 to France - with spitzer tipped .30-40 Krag ammo. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By backbencher: There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. I have often wondered why Winchester never made the 1895 in .308; a saddle ring carbine, especially in takedown form, in .308 would be awesome. Complex & expensive to make, and LONG out of production by the time .308 came along. I'm of the decidedly minority opinion that we should have taken the Krag, the 1895 Winchester, & the M1917 to France - with spitzer tipped .30-40 Krag ammo. I think I'm a pretty solid lever gun lover. No fucking way would I want on in a trench. And the 1903 and 1917 were way better than the krag |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:27:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: I think I'm a pretty solid lever gun lover. No fucking way would I want on in a trench. And the 1903 and 1917 were way better than the krag Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By backbencher: There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. I have often wondered why Winchester never made the 1895 in .308; a saddle ring carbine, especially in takedown form, in .308 would be awesome. Complex & expensive to make, and LONG out of production by the time .308 came along. I'm of the decidedly minority opinion that we should have taken the Krag, the 1895 Winchester, & the M1917 to France - with spitzer tipped .30-40 Krag ammo. I think I'm a pretty solid lever gun lover. No fucking way would I want on in a trench. And the 1903 and 1917 were way better than the krag The Russians used the 1895 to good effect. The 1917 is certainly better than the Krag - and the 1903. The 1903 was not needed, all that was needed was a spitzer bullet for the .30-40 cartridge and a clip or speed loader system for the Krag, both of which were available long before the 1st WW. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:31:26 PM EDT
[#13]
My buddy Paul at Country Custom Metalsmithing is awesome at this kind of stuff. He does stellar work and despite being on the younger side really knows and loves old guns. He's planning on hunting pronghorn with an original 30-40 Krag this year if he draws.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:35:13 PM EDT
[#14]
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USA
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:37:16 PM EDT
[#15]
Just look around, I pulled this off the top of my head..
https://www.shawcustombarrels.com/barrels/182 |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 9:43:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/356105/IMG_2352_jpeg-3189964.JPG We've talked about this before, haven't we?
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Posted: 4/16/2024 10:02:30 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lockstep: Just look around, I pulled this off the top of my head.. https://www.shawcustombarrels.com/barrels/182 That sounds like it would work - and the 96/11 isn't on their We don't work on those receivers list - YET. 
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Posted: 4/16/2024 10:07:28 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By turbobrick: My buddy Paul at Country Custom Metalsmithing is awesome at this kind of stuff. He does stellar work and despite being on the younger side really knows and loves old guns. He's planning on hunting pronghorn with an original 30-40 Krag this year if he draws. Thinking of coming out to SHOT next year, might could drop it off with him then. |
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:50:01 PM EDT
[#19]
This thread makes me sad. I've been trying to find an antique 96/11 for quite some time now. I have a lot of 7.5 Swiss ammo and intend to reload for it once I can acquire a rifle that uses it again.
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Posted: 4/16/2024 11:53:10 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The Russians used the 1895 to good effect. The 1917 is certainly better than the Krag - and the 1903. The 1903 was not needed, all that was needed was a spitzer bullet for the .30-40 cartridge and a clip or speed loader system for the Krag, both of which were available long before the 1st WW. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By backbencher: There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. I have often wondered why Winchester never made the 1895 in .308; a saddle ring carbine, especially in takedown form, in .308 would be awesome. Complex & expensive to make, and LONG out of production by the time .308 came along. I'm of the decidedly minority opinion that we should have taken the Krag, the 1895 Winchester, & the M1917 to France - with spitzer tipped .30-40 Krag ammo. I think I'm a pretty solid lever gun lover. No fucking way would I want on in a trench. And the 1903 and 1917 were way better than the krag The Russians used the 1895 to good effect. The 1917 is certainly better than the Krag - and the 1903. The 1903 was not needed, all that was needed was a spitzer bullet for the .30-40 cartridge and a clip or speed loader system for the Krag, both of which were available long before the 1st WW. I've seen charger guides that protrude from the receiver for American Krags. Definitely was something explored. The Danes and Norwegians developed chargers that are more like the Swiss ones and are designed to work with the Krag without modification. You see these used in Stang Shooting and Field Speed Shooting competitions in Scandinavia by shooters who choose to use Krags. One feature I find neat about the capsule magazine is the ability to reload the magazine while retaining a round in the chamber despite having a fixed magazine. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 7:30:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The Russians used the 1895 to good effect. The 1917 is certainly better than the Krag - and the 1903. The 1903 was not needed, all that was needed was a spitzer bullet for the .30-40 cartridge and a clip or speed loader system for the Krag, both of which were available long before the 1st WW. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By backbencher: There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. I have often wondered why Winchester never made the 1895 in .308; a saddle ring carbine, especially in takedown form, in .308 would be awesome. Complex & expensive to make, and LONG out of production by the time .308 came along. I'm of the decidedly minority opinion that we should have taken the Krag, the 1895 Winchester, & the M1917 to France - with spitzer tipped .30-40 Krag ammo. I think I'm a pretty solid lever gun lover. No fucking way would I want on in a trench. And the 1903 and 1917 were way better than the krag The Russians used the 1895 to good effect. The 1917 is certainly better than the Krag - and the 1903. The 1903 was not needed, all that was needed was a spitzer bullet for the .30-40 cartridge and a clip or speed loader system for the Krag, both of which were available long before the 1st WW. The Russians used everything because they had more men then guns. The 1903 came before the 1917 and a much better infantry rifle. It was lighter and shorter. It was used as the main battle rifle through half of ww2 for the Marines and into Korea and Vietnam as a sniper rifle. The krag was just not a rugged action |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:02:13 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigstick61: This thread makes me sad. I've been trying to find an antique 96/11 for quite some time now. I have a lot of 7.5 Swiss ammo and intend to reload for it once I can acquire a rifle that uses it again. Don't remember where I got mine, but K31s are available. I got my 96/11 from a website that specializes in antiques & C&R, if I find the link I'll post it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:09:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: The Russians used everything because they had more men then guns. The 1903 came before the 1917 and a much better infantry rifle. It was lighter and shorter. It was used as the main battle rifle through half of ww2 for the Marines and into Korea and Vietnam as a sniper rifle. The krag was just not a rugged action Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By backbencher: There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. I have often wondered why Winchester never made the 1895 in .308; a saddle ring carbine, especially in takedown form, in .308 would be awesome. Complex & expensive to make, and LONG out of production by the time .308 came along. I'm of the decidedly minority opinion that we should have taken the Krag, the 1895 Winchester, & the M1917 to France - with spitzer tipped .30-40 Krag ammo. I think I'm a pretty solid lever gun lover. No fucking way would I want on in a trench. And the 1903 and 1917 were way better than the krag The Russians used the 1895 to good effect. The 1917 is certainly better than the Krag - and the 1903. The 1903 was not needed, all that was needed was a spitzer bullet for the .30-40 cartridge and a clip or speed loader system for the Krag, both of which were available long before the 1st WW. The Russians used everything because they had more men then guns. The 1903 came before the 1917 and a much better infantry rifle. It was lighter and shorter. It was used as the main battle rifle through half of ww2 for the Marines and into Korea and Vietnam as a sniper rifle. The krag was just not a rugged action The Krag was rugged enough for the pressures demanded - it blew up less than 1903s. The Norwegians ended up running .30-06 in some after the war, IIRC. The Springfield was retained b/c it was a better Camp Perry rifle. The Enfield was the stronger action, both were Mauser derivatives. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:12:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mattgunguy]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The Russians used the 1895 to good effect. The 1917 is certainly better than the Krag - and the 1903. The 1903 was not needed, all that was needed was a spitzer bullet for the .30-40 cartridge and a clip or speed loader system for the Krag, both of which were available long before the 1st WW. Spitzer you say. It actually shoots quite nicely.   Both the Norwegian & Danish Krags are almost a completely different critters than the US Krag. The biggest draw back back preventing the US krag from higher pressure rounds is that the Ordnance Department at the time was extremely cheap. Our rifle wasn't made to as high of standards in terms of fit. On the other rifles the root of the bolt handle acts as a second lug, it is much more finely fit to the receiver. While we decided that was a time consuming, expensive & ultimately unnecessary feature. Both the Danish 8mm & Norwegian 6.5mm rounds successfully made the transition to a spitzer bullet and remained in service through WW2. Another little fact, Olaf Jorgensen did design an dual locking lug bolt & offered it to the Ordnance Department, I think during the trials for the 1903 Springfield. But once again, Ordnance at the time was either A: cheapasses, B: new "domestic" rifle on the brain, C: politics. Unlike today. The Springfield is a better rifle than the Krag, due to the magazine system if nothing else. The Danes developed a charger system for their rifles & didn't even use it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:20:27 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The Krag was rugged enough for the pressures demanded - it blew up less than 1903s. The Norwegians ended up running .30-06 in some after the war, IIRC. The Springfield was retained b/c it was a better Camp Perry rifle. The Enfield was the stronger action, both were Mauser derivatives. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By backbencher: There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. I have often wondered why Winchester never made the 1895 in .308; a saddle ring carbine, especially in takedown form, in .308 would be awesome. Complex & expensive to make, and LONG out of production by the time .308 came along. I'm of the decidedly minority opinion that we should have taken the Krag, the 1895 Winchester, & the M1917 to France - with spitzer tipped .30-40 Krag ammo. I think I'm a pretty solid lever gun lover. No fucking way would I want on in a trench. And the 1903 and 1917 were way better than the krag The Russians used the 1895 to good effect. The 1917 is certainly better than the Krag - and the 1903. The 1903 was not needed, all that was needed was a spitzer bullet for the .30-40 cartridge and a clip or speed loader system for the Krag, both of which were available long before the 1st WW. The Russians used everything because they had more men then guns. The 1903 came before the 1917 and a much better infantry rifle. It was lighter and shorter. It was used as the main battle rifle through half of ww2 for the Marines and into Korea and Vietnam as a sniper rifle. The krag was just not a rugged action The Krag was rugged enough for the pressures demanded - it blew up less than 1903s. The Norwegians ended up running .30-06 in some after the war, IIRC. The Springfield was retained b/c it was a better Camp Perry rifle. The Enfield was the stronger action, both were Mauser derivatives. The US tried pushing the 30-40 to 2200fps and it couldn't handle it. The 03 is shorter and lighter with Buckhorn sights. Explain to me why you think it's a better target rifle than the Enfield. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:20:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Usually the antique designation has some
caveats, such as the ammunition not being commonly available. I've never been able to cash and carry a Trapdoor or Krag, despite meeting the date requirement. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:25:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Usually the antique designation has some caveats, such as the ammunition not being commonly available. I've never been able to cash and carry a Trapdoor or Krag, despite meeting the date requirement. I remember sportsman guide selling 308 Spanish mausers straight to your door. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:28:32 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jayne_Cobb: Usually the antique designation has some caveats, such as the ammunition not being commonly available. I've never been able to cash and carry a Trapdoor or Krag, despite meeting the date requirement. No, ammunition not being readily available in common commercial channels applies to replica firearms built AFTER 1899. Many FFLs log in anything with a serial number, regardless of date, and would rather make you do a 4473 than note the firearm was logged in their book in error as an antique. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:30:53 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: I remember sportsman guide selling 308 Spanish mausers straight to your door. Same here, and I still kick myself for not buying a pile of them |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:42:14 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: The US tried pushing the 30-40 to 2200fps and it couldn't handle it. The 03 is shorter and lighter with Buckhorn sights. Explain to me why you think it's a better target rifle than the Enfield. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By Seven-Shooter: Originally Posted By backbencher: There are a few legally antique actions out there that will handle the .308 Winchester. The Winchester 1895 was later chambered in .30-06 and 7.62x54R, so the action itself can handle .308. I have often wondered why Winchester never made the 1895 in .308; a saddle ring carbine, especially in takedown form, in .308 would be awesome. Complex & expensive to make, and LONG out of production by the time .308 came along. I'm of the decidedly minority opinion that we should have taken the Krag, the 1895 Winchester, & the M1917 to France - with spitzer tipped .30-40 Krag ammo. I think I'm a pretty solid lever gun lover. No fucking way would I want on in a trench. And the 1903 and 1917 were way better than the krag The Russians used the 1895 to good effect. The 1917 is certainly better than the Krag - and the 1903. The 1903 was not needed, all that was needed was a spitzer bullet for the .30-40 cartridge and a clip or speed loader system for the Krag, both of which were available long before the 1st WW. The Russians used everything because they had more men then guns. The 1903 came before the 1917 and a much better infantry rifle. It was lighter and shorter. It was used as the main battle rifle through half of ww2 for the Marines and into Korea and Vietnam as a sniper rifle. The krag was just not a rugged action The Krag was rugged enough for the pressures demanded - it blew up less than 1903s. The Norwegians ended up running .30-06 in some after the war, IIRC. The Springfield was retained b/c it was a better Camp Perry rifle. The Enfield was the stronger action, both were Mauser derivatives. The US tried pushing the 30-40 to 2200fps and it couldn't handle it. The 03 is shorter and lighter with Buckhorn sights. Explain to me why you think it's a better target rifle than the Enfield. Don't ask me - ask the 1920's Army. Think it was b/c the windage was easily adjustable that they retained it, and the whole NIH thing. My late FIL built many target rifles on Enfield actions. W/ 220 grn or 200 grn bullets, no, the Krag is not going to handle 2200 fps. W/ 150 grn spitzers, it would have been a perfectly decent middle of the road 1st WW cartridge. From Wiki: 150 gr (10 g) Nos Part 2,575 ft/s (785 m/s) 2,209 ft⋅lbf (2,995 J) |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 9:57:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jason280: So, basically he'll be able to buy like 87 rounds of 7.5x55? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Jason280: Originally Posted By JAG2955: I'd just keep it in 7.5 Swiss and use the gunsmith savings for ammo. It'll retain more value as well, should you choose to sell it. If I had a hard on for cheaper ammo while still having an antique status, I'd find an antique M39. So, basically he'll be able to buy like 87 rounds of 7.5x55? SG Ammo has it at $1.60 a round if you buy by the case and $1.65 a round if you buy by the box, and shipping is free over $200. That's not great, but by the time you buy a barrel and pay for a gunsmith to do the work, you could buy a good amount of ammo, even at those prices. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 3:11:52 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: SG Ammo has it at $1.60 a round if you buy by the case and $1.65 a round if you buy by the box, and shipping is free over $200. That's not great, but by the time you buy a barrel and pay for a gunsmith to do the work, you could buy a good amount of ammo, even at those prices. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By Jason280: Originally Posted By JAG2955: I'd just keep it in 7.5 Swiss and use the gunsmith savings for ammo. It'll retain more value as well, should you choose to sell it. If I had a hard on for cheaper ammo while still having an antique status, I'd find an antique M39. So, basically he'll be able to buy like 87 rounds of 7.5x55? SG Ammo has it at $1.60 a round if you buy by the case and $1.65 a round if you buy by the box, and shipping is free over $200. That's not great, but by the time you buy a barrel and pay for a gunsmith to do the work, you could buy a good amount of ammo, even at those prices. The point is to have a non-Title 1 rifle in a cartridge widely available in the US. 7.5 Swiss is a great round - I can't buy it at Walmart. If wanted an effective but esoteric cartridge I already have a 7mm Spanish Mauser. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 6:20:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Thinking of coming out to SHOT next year, might could drop it off with him then. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 6:30:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigstick61: This thread makes me sad. I've been trying to find an antique 96/11 for quite some time now. I have a lot of 7.5 Swiss ammo and intend to reload for it once I can acquire a rifle that uses it again. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 10:04:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: The point is to have a non-Title 1 rifle in a cartridge widely available in the US. 7.5 Swiss is a great round - I can't buy it at Walmart. If wanted an effective but esoteric cartridge I already have a 7mm Spanish Mauser. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By Jason280: Originally Posted By JAG2955: I'd just keep it in 7.5 Swiss and use the gunsmith savings for ammo. It'll retain more value as well, should you choose to sell it. If I had a hard on for cheaper ammo while still having an antique status, I'd find an antique M39. So, basically he'll be able to buy like 87 rounds of 7.5x55? SG Ammo has it at $1.60 a round if you buy by the case and $1.65 a round if you buy by the box, and shipping is free over $200. That's not great, but by the time you buy a barrel and pay for a gunsmith to do the work, you could buy a good amount of ammo, even at those prices. The point is to have a non-Title 1 rifle in a cartridge widely available in the US. 7.5 Swiss is a great round - I can't buy it at Walmart. If wanted an effective but esoteric cartridge I already have a 7mm Spanish Mauser. I'm not sure I understand the goal here. The only thing interesting (that I'm aware of) about pre-Title 1 firearms is that they can be transferred by FFLs without a 4473. If that's all you want, there are a variety of private purchases, auctions, garage sales, etc that provide the same opportunity regardless of age. If you buy a FR8 or a Ruger Scout or something from a collector, does it matter if it's a title 1 firearm? The ammo supply thing is a similar contradiction in my mind. For the cost of the caliber conversion, you can buy a whole case or two of ammo, and that'll last a very long time in that rifle. And already being in possession of the ammo is a more secure supply strategy than converting the gun to a cartridge that may or may not be available at a place like Walmart at your time of need. |
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Posted: 4/17/2024 11:20:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: I'm not sure I understand the goal here. The only thing interesting (that I'm aware of) about pre-Title 1 firearms is that they can be transferred by FFLs without a 4473. If that's all you want, there are a variety of private purchases, auctions, garage sales, etc that provide the same opportunity regardless of age. If you buy a FR8 or a Ruger Scout or something from a collector, does it matter if it's a title 1 firearm? The ammo supply thing is a similar contradiction in my mind. For the cost of the caliber conversion, you can buy a whole case or two of ammo, and that'll last a very long time in that rifle. And already being in possession of the ammo is a more secure supply strategy than converting the gun to a cartridge that may or may not be available at a place like Walmart at your time of need. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By Jason280: Originally Posted By JAG2955: I'd just keep it in 7.5 Swiss and use the gunsmith savings for ammo. It'll retain more value as well, should you choose to sell it. If I had a hard on for cheaper ammo while still having an antique status, I'd find an antique M39. So, basically he'll be able to buy like 87 rounds of 7.5x55? SG Ammo has it at $1.60 a round if you buy by the case and $1.65 a round if you buy by the box, and shipping is free over $200. That's not great, but by the time you buy a barrel and pay for a gunsmith to do the work, you could buy a good amount of ammo, even at those prices. The point is to have a non-Title 1 rifle in a cartridge widely available in the US. 7.5 Swiss is a great round - I can't buy it at Walmart. If wanted an effective but esoteric cartridge I already have a 7mm Spanish Mauser. I'm not sure I understand the goal here. The only thing interesting (that I'm aware of) about pre-Title 1 firearms is that they can be transferred by FFLs without a 4473. If that's all you want, there are a variety of private purchases, auctions, garage sales, etc that provide the same opportunity regardless of age. If you buy a FR8 or a Ruger Scout or something from a collector, does it matter if it's a title 1 firearm? The ammo supply thing is a similar contradiction in my mind. For the cost of the caliber conversion, you can buy a whole case or two of ammo, and that'll last a very long time in that rifle. And already being in possession of the ammo is a more secure supply strategy than converting the gun to a cartridge that may or may not be available at a place like Walmart at your time of need. Non SBR SBR |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 2:35:54 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: Simpsonltd has them for good prices pretty often. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: Originally Posted By bigstick61: This thread makes me sad. I've been trying to find an antique 96/11 for quite some time now. I have a lot of 7.5 Swiss ammo and intend to reload for it once I can acquire a rifle that uses it again. Antiques? C&R are not hard to find, but antiques for me have been another story. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 9:12:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Non SBR SBR Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By backbencher: Originally Posted By GenYRevolverGuy: Originally Posted By Jason280: Originally Posted By JAG2955: I'd just keep it in 7.5 Swiss and use the gunsmith savings for ammo. It'll retain more value as well, should you choose to sell it. If I had a hard on for cheaper ammo while still having an antique status, I'd find an antique M39. So, basically he'll be able to buy like 87 rounds of 7.5x55? SG Ammo has it at $1.60 a round if you buy by the case and $1.65 a round if you buy by the box, and shipping is free over $200. That's not great, but by the time you buy a barrel and pay for a gunsmith to do the work, you could buy a good amount of ammo, even at those prices. The point is to have a non-Title 1 rifle in a cartridge widely available in the US. 7.5 Swiss is a great round - I can't buy it at Walmart. If wanted an effective but esoteric cartridge I already have a 7mm Spanish Mauser. I'm not sure I understand the goal here. The only thing interesting (that I'm aware of) about pre-Title 1 firearms is that they can be transferred by FFLs without a 4473. If that's all you want, there are a variety of private purchases, auctions, garage sales, etc that provide the same opportunity regardless of age. If you buy a FR8 or a Ruger Scout or something from a collector, does it matter if it's a title 1 firearm? The ammo supply thing is a similar contradiction in my mind. For the cost of the caliber conversion, you can buy a whole case or two of ammo, and that'll last a very long time in that rifle. And already being in possession of the ammo is a more secure supply strategy than converting the gun to a cartridge that may or may not be available at a place like Walmart at your time of need. Non SBR SBR Sadly, sub 26" OAL, sub 16" barrel antiques fall under SBR law unless specifically exempted by ATF, such as in the case of most of the Winchester trappers, where they're been exempted by SN. Non-title 1 antiques can be shipped through the postal system across state lines, sold interstate between individuals, etc. As far as the Feds are concerned, they're not firearms. That's some handy legal flexibility. As far as ammo goes, .308 is one of the most available cartridges on the planet, particularly in the US. 7.5 Swiss is not. While you can mail your Title 1 rifle to yourself for a hunting trip, it's a little easier to ship antiques. And pre-1898 guns are not firearms under Canadian law - unless they've changed it again. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 9:26:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigstick61: Antiques? C&R are not hard to find, but antiques for me have been another story. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigstick61: Originally Posted By JAG2955: Originally Posted By bigstick61: This thread makes me sad. I've been trying to find an antique 96/11 for quite some time now. I have a lot of 7.5 Swiss ammo and intend to reload for it once I can acquire a rifle that uses it again. Simpsonltd has them for good prices pretty often. Antiques? C&R are not hard to find, but antiques for me have been another story. https://simpsonltd.com/w-f-bern-1889-z52156/ - 1889. https://simpsonltd.com/w-f-bern-1896-11-z52271/ - 1902 Here you go - 1898: https://simpsonltd.com/wf-bern-model-1896-11-rifle-z40780/ If you've got a lot of 7.5 Swiss, why specifically do you want an antique? The 96/11, antique or not, the 1911, K11, K31, and their Stgw 57 all shoot the modern 7.5 Swiss. |
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Posted: 4/18/2024 8:43:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: https://simpsonltd.com/w-f-bern-1889-z52156/ - 1889. https://simpsonltd.com/w-f-bern-1896-11-z52271/ - 1902 Here you go - 1898: https://simpsonltd.com/wf-bern-model-1896-11-rifle-z40780/ If you've got a lot of 7.5 Swiss, why specifically do you want an antique? The 96/11, antique or not, the 1911, K11, K31, and their Stgw 57 all shoot the modern 7.5 Swiss. I like the idea of off-paper guns that are modern but do not have to go through an FFL, do not have to be registered here in CA, and don't require me to pay them all of those DROS fees which IIRC partly go to help fund gun control enforcement. I used to have a K-31 but circumstances forced me to divest myself of just about everything, but I hung onto the ammo and started rebuilding my collection once I was able. I felt like going this route instead of just getting a K-31 again. I've heard good things about the 96/11 and I like the things that come with legal antiques. I know it will cost no matter what, as I'm not getting a K-31 for $99 like I did last time. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 12:51:52 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigstick61: I like the idea of off-paper guns that are modern but do not have to go through an FFL, do not have to be registered here in CA, and don't require me to pay them all of those DROS fees which IIRC partly go to help fund gun control enforcement. I used to have a K-31 but circumstances forced me to divest myself of just about everything, but I hung onto the ammo and started rebuilding my collection once I was able. I felt like going this route instead of just getting a K-31 again. I've heard good things about the 96/11 and I like the things that come with legal antiques. I know it will cost no matter what, as I'm not getting a K-31 for $99 like I did last time. But if I wanted an off paper gun via antique status like that, I'd look for an antique receiver M39 with some high quality x54R, and after that an M38 Swede carbine converted from one of the 96s. Im not familiar enough with any of the antiques converted to .308 to recommend one, like the Brazilian Mausers. Finding an antique Mauser receiver and rebarreling it into a "stealth" milsurp in .308 would be a fun project to fly under the radar though. |
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Posted: 4/19/2024 11:09:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: Do 03FFLs work in CA? I have no idea. But if I wanted an off paper gun via antique status like that, I'd look for an antique receiver M39 with some high quality x54R, and after that an M38 Swede carbine converted from one of the 96s. Im not familiar enough with any of the antiques converted to .308 to recommend one, like the Brazilian Mausers. Finding an antique Mauser receiver and rebarreling it into a "stealth" milsurp in .308 would be a fun project to fly under the radar though. C&R FFL still requires registration. You also cannot have it shipped to you from out of state, IIRC; has to go through regular FFL but is cash and carry, I believe. Now if you buy a C&R gun outside of CA you can bring it back with you bit still have to report it and pay a fee. Same for FTF or in-state mail order transactions. To get full benefit you also have to have a certificate of eligibility from the State. I specifically want a Swiss service rifle in 7.5 Swiss. I do already have a Finnish m/39. Not antique, but I bought it when legal FTF sales without a registration requirement were still allowed. As far as antique Mausers go, I really wanted a Turkish Mauser in the original 7.65mm chambering that has an intact magazine cutoff. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 12:01:30 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigstick61: C&R FFL still requires registration. You also cannot have it shipped to you from out of state, IIRC; has to go through regular FFL but is cash and carry, I believe. Now if you buy a C&R gun outside of CA you can bring it back with you bit still have to report it and pay a fee. Same for FTF or in-state mail order transactions. To get full benefit you also have to have a certificate of eligibility from the State. I specifically want a Swiss service rifle in 7.5 Swiss. I do already have a Finnish m/39. Not antique, but I bought it when legal FTF sales without a registration requirement were still allowed. As far as antique Mausers go, I really wanted a Turkish Mauser in the original 7.65mm chambering that has an intact magazine cutoff. I hope you got this one: https://simpsonltd.com/wf-bern-1896-11-z58430/ |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 10:25:23 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: @bigstick61 I hope you got this one: https://simpsonltd.com/wf-bern-1896-11-z58430/ Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JAG2955: Originally Posted By bigstick61: C&R FFL still requires registration. You also cannot have it shipped to you from out of state, IIRC; has to go through regular FFL but is cash and carry, I believe. Now if you buy a C&R gun outside of CA you can bring it back with you bit still have to report it and pay a fee. Same for FTF or in-state mail order transactions. To get full benefit you also have to have a certificate of eligibility from the State. I specifically want a Swiss service rifle in 7.5 Swiss. I do already have a Finnish m/39. Not antique, but I bought it when legal FTF sales without a registration requirement were still allowed. As far as antique Mausers go, I really wanted a Turkish Mauser in the original 7.65mm chambering that has an intact magazine cutoff. I hope you got this one: https://simpsonltd.com/wf-bern-1896-11-z58430/ I wish I had. Damn! I can't buy one until the next time I get paid, though. I'll have to keep a close eye on the site. |
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Posted: 4/21/2024 11:12:54 PM EDT
[#45]
Swiss (and Finn IMHO) prices have gotten weird. The less common stuff, 1896/11, K11s, M27s, have stagnated in price, while more common stuff like K31s and M39s have drastically risen.
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