At first glance does the original post come off as a rant or someone really upset about something? I guess I was trying to say you can be a Christian and follow Jesus without worrying about every 2 bit writer, theologian, etc... that comes along and talks about some Jewish internet personality. Don't let your life be run by others. If you want to have a relationship with God and Jesus, why do you care what another person says? You don't need any of that to have a relationship with Jesus. All of the extra writings outside of The Bible are superfluous in my opinion unless they are study of the actual Bible.

I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.

It's not up to you. Worry about your own house.

It's rather odd for you to be telling anyone else how to be a christian when you've said you aren't one?  

Shouldn't you apply your standards to yourself? Why do you care if OP disagreed with what was said and speaks out about it?

You may not realize this, but you are showing a huge amount of ignorance on this topic.

I do wonder why you decided to get involved in this discussion?

I'm in the thread because I know of and have watched klavan's stuff and am interested to see if what OP said is true.

I think a lot of religious people are needlessly led astray by other men and institutions when all they have to do is follow the book. Call me judgmental if you will. Just because I'm agnostic / athiest doesn't mean I don't enjoy discussions of higher beings, morality, and the afterlife.

Ok, well - when it comes to what you believe about reality if you believe the only way people can be saved from getting a horrible end that they deserve is one way and one way only, and you think someone else is leading people away from that, you're going to act on those beliefs.

Asking someone to reject what they are convicted of about reality (regarding that kind of belief)  is asking them to hate people with the worst possible kind of hate.

There's a pretty famous video by penn jilette (sp) talking about just that.

@PatriotAr15

I listened to this entire video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyW3z2F7Y5c for klavan to say that ben didn't have to embrace christ. Or anything that meant that.  I didn't hear it anywhere.

If it was in another video or somewhere else, please link me, because I'm not seeing it.

In that regard I understand if you believe you are saving Andrew Klavan and people who would listen to them from a terrible fate by showing them how Andrew's views are wrong. I will assume you and OP are being earnest.

My reason for posting was OP seemed pretty upset and my only advice was that he can still have a good relationship with Jesus without worrying about all these modern internet personalities. There are thousands upon thousands of them and you won't fix them all. OP can control his own relationship with God which I think would be most important in the end.

I'm Christian. My question is if we are all wrong. What does it matter.  Seatbelts are good enough, or airbags are good enough, or can both not be ok.

Seems like this is what's going on with the whole fuss over the use of the phrase Christ is King:



ETA: summary

Candace used the phrase to ben shaprio. ETA2: Apparently this is involved with candace and ben disagreeing over the conduct of the war in israel.

Klavan indicated that he thinks she was using it as a way to "own" ben or otherwise as a cudgel and said (in the video I linked in a couple of post in this thread) words that amount to him beliving she was connating antisemitism, even though the words she used weren't themselves antisemitic.

Yeah, it's that kind of a peeing contest. I have no idea if she was actually using the language klavan referred to in an anti jewish way or not.

Enter streisand effect and the phrase "Christ is king" winds up trending and starts getting used in multiple different ways.

Christians who are just agreeing with what the words mean; and otherwise having more or less informed takes on what's going on otherwise.

Screwed up people using the phrase to "own the jews" etc (including at least a couple of people who say they are muslims).

And everyone else looking at the blowup and going ... HUH?

Good job OP.

If someone claiming to be a Christian says there is some other way for sinners to be redeemed/forgiven/saved from sin other than believing that Jesus died for their sins, was buried and rose again from the dead  -  they deserve rebuke.

OP isn't wrong. This isn't about pointing out others' sins while ignoring your own. I would equate modern, well-to-do Jewish people who won't recognize Jesus are the modern day Pharisees. Not bad people, but even Biblically, Jesus condemned them for what they were:

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside, you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.” (Matthew 23:13, 27-28)

Kaven is just kowtowing to them and is just as false, especially as one who professes to be a Chrisitan. Ben Shapiro is the "rich man", but Jesus doesn't care about his wealth, he cares about his soul.


Matthew 19:16-30
A Rich Man Refuses to Follow Jesus

16 A man came to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to have eternal life?”

17 Jesus answered, “Why do you ask me about what is good? Only God is good. But if you want to have eternal life, obey the law’s commands.”

18 The man asked, “Which ones?”

Jesus answered, “‘You must not murder anyone, you must not commit adultery, you must not steal, you must not tell lies about others, 19 you must respect your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor[b] the same as you love yourself.’[c]”

20 The young man said, “I have obeyed all these commands. What else do I need?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, then go and sell all that you own. Give the money to the poor, and you will have riches in heaven. Then come and follow me!”

22 But when the young man heard Jesus tell him to give away his money, he was sad. He didn’t want to do this, because he was very rich. So he left.

23 Then Jesus said to his followers, “The truth is, it will be very hard for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom. 24 Yes, I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom.”

25 The followers were amazed to hear this. They asked, “Then who can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “This is something that people cannot do. But God can do anything.”

27 Peter said to him, “We left everything we had and followed you. So what will we have?”

28 Jesus said to them, “When the time of the new world comes, the Son of Man will sit on his great and glorious throne. And I can promise that you who followed me will sit on twelve thrones, and you will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. 29

The Jewish people are God's chosen people, but they are not exempt from the one requirement that applies to all:

John 14:6 "Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

It's the cornerstone of salvation and it's the foundation of Christianity, it applies to all equally. Calling out someone who's excusing this is simply pointing out false teachings and ignoring the truth. It's not about pointing out sins between each other, it's simply calling what's Biblically false. OP is spot on.

ROCK6

There's a lot of people who are biblically "false" me included. I think if you want to rage against them you will drive away more people than you garnish. Don't be surprised if you get lumped with the "god hates fags" or fire and brimstone preachers. I don't remember god requiring his believers to attack all blasphemy. I think Jesus's words to the sinners on the cross is probably the spirit that should be followed. Again there are going to be a lot of people espousing bullshit, why even pay attention to it? Your relationship with your God is not dependent upon other people's bad relationship with him. Don't give other people the power to influence your relation with God.

ETA if you take my words and say I'm also espousing bullshit fine. I'd rather help a Christian with their relationship with God than see them get upset over the wrong reasons (giving power to stupid internet famous people).

Andrew Klavan is a internet personality, commentator and author, from whom no one has to take spiritual advice.  

OP gets offended that Klavan's beliefs do not comport with his own.

OP rants on unrelated gun board about it.

OP feels better

/thread

Oy, too expensive, eh?

What if Klavan gets him 10% off? Apparently he has an inside connection.

So you've identified Andrew Klavan as a hypocrite and false prophet?

Let's see what Jesus Himself said about them:

“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
Matthew 7: 15-20

Looks like Klavan is going to burn unless you can track him down and convince him of the error of his ways.

I personally wouldn't bother.

I'd have thought that if concerned about one who may be stumbling on the path, that the way to approach it is to meet them in a private, loving way.  I just don't remember anything that suggested frantic ranting about someone else to GD was the thing to do.

Even Jesus hates Jews. Got it.

Andrew klavan converted for clout more than anything, he was (is?) Jewish to begin with.
Whatever.

As long as we don’t get a bunch of Palestinians here or in Europe I don’t really care what Israel does with them. I think they are rich enough to not need our money, and should probably realize the only reason they still exist is because of Christians and chill out with the spitting on nuns and “gentile” bashing.

I cannot add to whats already been said except to say I pray BS sees the light or he will someday find out, too late, that he was wrong

I 100% did read all of that and I am in agreement with you. Its not whether I agree or not, its what the Lord said that matters.

Hate the sin but love the sinner. I don't condemn people who I feel are sinners, I'm one of them; we're all sinners. If somebody asks, I'll tell them my opinions, but I won't rely on interpretations, just what's in the Bible. I've never like the "fire and brimstone" preachers, but maybe it works for some.

I also don't try and judge as I don't know what's in one's heart; only God does. I do know that one's salvation (if you believe in Christianity) is solely dependent on Jesus Christ. What actually happens after death is not for me to judge. I'm a sinner and faulty Christian and the only way God is going to accept me is that after every screwup, I pray for forgiveness and keep moving forward asking for mercy and guidance to avoid those screwups again. It's a daily struggle as I'm far from perfect.

If someone (if that's what was said) says you don't need to believe in Jesus for salvation, I'll call that out; it's simply the foundation of Christianity. Even that one "criminal" on the Cross with Jesus likely violated every Commandment and every Jewish law, however, all he needed was to accept Jesus as his Savior...and that was enough. Let that sink in. Anyone who would tell you otherwise is simply wrong, especially if the claim to be a Christian of any denomination.

The Bible specifically teaches that believers should do exactly as the OP did:

Luke 17:3-4
Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him, and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”

That said, this isn't about pointing out someone else's problems while you're ignoring you own. Before I try and point out anything false or not Biblically founded, I often think of this verse:

Matthew 7:3 And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye-

There are a lot of great life-lessons in the Bible whether you believe in Christianity or not.

ROCK6

This may be the only way to find out for sure.

You know?

@sitkashooter

+1

One of the biggest annoyances for Jews is people trying to convert them.  They’ve heard the gospel.  If they want to convert, they’ll convert.  Same for people of any other religion.

Andrew Keven is a Jew turned Christian.

He said out load he prays for Ben Shapiros conversion to Jesus Christ. Said it on a recent podcast.

@Kingdead

+1

As a devout Christian, you can look at it even simpler than that:  Follow the 10 Commandments + believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins and was resurrected.  Treat people the way you want to be treated.  That’s it.

What the hell is the world coming to?

That isn’t necessarily true. They have certain parts of the NT they will refuse to allow young Jews to read or hear for fear of conversion. That may be true for an “old Jew” but many young Jewish adults do t have a clue about Jesus fulfilling many prophesied and are barred from even studying the NT.

Knew a young jewish guy myself that had no idea who Paul from the christian Bible was and only had heard of Jesus in small doses with no background. They aren’t taught how to “disprove” christianity but are told not to even seek it or investigate.

It’s a chance we all have to take when it comes to religion.

It’s impossible to KNOW what is coming for us. It’s ALL about believing and how you choose to live your lives in light of those beliefs.

And then Jesus said unto him, "Go out and sell everything you own and then come follow Me."

Word.

It is obvious that some in the human race have had it too good for too long.

They don't reverence the Lord like in times gone by.

They reverence themselves.

It can happen in as little as forty years or approximately one generation to the judgement.

It is causing others to stumble as well.

Now, everybody wants it and they are coming.

Who is able to curtail the will of the Lord, love Him or hate Him unto death?

Something something worry about yourself, cast the first stone, etc.


But then again we are suppose to call out BS. So to be honest I’m a tad conflicted here.

Eternal judgement is God’s job, not yours.  

Are you casting the first stone here?

Wall o text
Your butthurt because someone chose French Vanilla Christianity with sprinkles instead of S Georgia Cookie Dough flavored Christianity?
I bet you get real cringe when you see Jesus depicted as someone is from that region instead of......lighter tones.

GD probably isn't the best place for this

I don't know who this Klavan guy is, my guess is that he's sort of referencing Paul
" And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

 “The Deliverer will come from Zion,

28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. 32 For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all."

I don't claim to know exactly what Paul means here or who qualifies as "Israel" and who doesn't

Then god just gets madder.

Who is this guy anyway?  Cliff’s kid?

It seems fairly simple to me. If what is being reported here is what he said and is what he meant by it (I.e. not taken out of context) then Andrew is saying false things.

The bigger problem I see here (in just this thread) are the people claiming to be Christians that are telling OP to basically stay in his own lane. That’s troubling to me and shows a bigger red flag in the faith as a whole. On face value, if you see someone claiming to be a CHRISTian saying you don’t need Christ for salvation and you aren’t at least troubled by that, then perhaps you need to do some self inflection. If you claim to be a Christian and then say we should stay in our own lane and not correct other believers when they say grossly incorrect things then I’m curious how you feel about the majority of the New Testament where Paul did that exact thing. Should he not have written all those letters?  Should he have not been trying to redirect the stumbling churches?

This is no different than anyone on this site claiming to be a 2A absolutist but then not correcting someone when they say that the founding fathers were only talking about muskets. Or something else equally crazy. It’s not about condemning that person, it’s about correcting that person before an easily accepted lie is propagated by the people that hear it.

I asked my german Grandpa one time what hippies were and what they looked like and he pointed to a picture of 'white Jesus bro' on the wall.

I was like;

Intellectuals and lawyers at DW are doing backflips to not upset a certain group of people that must represent a huge amount of their subscribers.

Intellectuals can outsmart themselves if need be to keep the money flowing because they aren't principled enough to truly believe in anything above their own intellect.  

The ones who stay there value $ over everything.

CoC 1

I agree with you OP.

The exclusivity of Christ in salvation is uh... a pretty essential doctrine to hold as a Christian.

You might even say it's in the name.

It's sad to see such folding of an essential of the Gospel and spreading of truly damaging misinformation.

Fundamentalist Christians founded your country. If there's any liberty left in this world, it's because of "fundamentalist" Christians.

The founding fathers were christians but not fundamentalist

Let's all freak out about it.

They were so fundamentalist that they insisted on separation of church and state??