Look, I am far from a perfect Christian. Far from a good one, even. I suck. I wont contest anyone here who will point out my failings in life. I know my opinions, and my words are probably worth less than you paid for it.
But I have to say, that what Andrew Klavan recently said... outs him as a heretic and potentially a traitor to his own faith.

On a recent show, Andrew Klavan... proclaimed that Ben Shapiro doesn't have to embrace Christ. That to embrace Christ, would alienate his family, cause him financial hardship, and hurt his political reach.
That Ben Shapiro... essentially, gets a pass... and can deny Christ and still go to heaven... because it would be too costly for him to accept Christ.



Firstly, that is a massive slap in the face of *EVERY* Christian Martyr who has paid the ultimate price... for proclaiming Christ. It is a slap in the face of every Christian who was murdered by people like Saul of Tarsus (Before he himself converted to Christianity) because they followed Christ. So all of these Martyrs... were expected to *DIE* proclaiming Christ... but Ben Shapiro gets a pass because he's rich and has a family?! The bible directly, and PRECISELY addresses this very issue!

The bible is... not at all... in the least bit... unclear as to what is expected of Christians. That "Oh, my life will get hard if I proclaim Christ!" is not a valid excuse.
JESUS HIMSELF SAID THIS.

Andrew Klavan, is calling JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF A LIAR. He is directly contradicting the words of CHRIST HIMSELF:

"For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it."
-Matthew 16:25"

Look, I bet Andrew Klavan probably has me beat in a lot of ways. He may be a better man than I am in a lot of ways. Probably has a far greater hold on his passions, emotions, and anger. I have anger issues. I admit it. I have a lot of issues that Andrew Klavan does not. I may be a dirty, filthy, rotten sinner.... but what Andrew said, is 100% heresy.

Andrew Klavan, if he is a Christian or at least has read the bible... If he has read the bible even ONE TENTH as much as I have... and I am *NO BIBLE SCHOLAR*. I don't read the bible *ANYWHERE NEAR AS MUCH AS I SHOULD*. But I know damn well, that what he said is heresy. What Andrew Klavan said, is the complete polar opposite of Matthew 16:25.

Call it anti-semitic if you want. Yes... if Jews want to enter the Kingdom of Heaven... they must proclaim the name of Christ as their Lord and Savior... same as everyone else.
If it is "Anti-semitic" to say that... well its also Anti-Hindu. Its also Anti-Atheist. Its also Anti-Pagan. Its also anti-Gnostic. Its also Anti-Sikh.
To be a Christian, is to believe in the basic tenets of Christianity... to believe what the bible says..... to believe the words imprinted within.

Andrew Klavan is continuing a heretical trend within Christianity, where out of cowardice... out of fear of being portrayed as Anti-Semites... Christians make an exemption for Jews from what the bible clearly states. There is nowhere in the bible, that justifies this carve out. I have even seen prominent Evangelical preachers, whom I suspect care more about their coffers than the truth... that Christians need to stop trying to convert Jews.... that Christians need to recognize that Jews are "Already saved" and "dont need Christ".

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
- John 14:6

I dont see a carve out for Jews. I don't see a carve out for Israel. I don't see a carve out for anyone.

If believing Christ's own words...  makes a Christian an anti-semite... so be it. Believe what you want to believe about us. But this is the truth of what Christianity is all about. There are no exemptions.
I am a *HORRIBLE* Christian, and even *I* know this. Andrew Klavan must know it.

Tomorrow, Christians will be observing Good Friday. The day that Christ himself, took nails into his own hands... and feet... to die for a piece of shit like me. All we are asked, is to not shy away when we are asked what we believe. Andrew Klavan failed. I hope he failed due to an honest misunderstanding... and not because he put mammon before God.... or fear of persecution... or fear of alienation from friends and family.... or fear from harsh criticism and canceling.

I hope, for his own soul... that this is due to some weird, misguided, twisted interpretation that he somehow accidentally wrapped himself up in. But I doubt it. He doesn't come across as stupid.
My honest belief, is that he simply was saying what he felt he had to say... to be accepted.... to not be the next one on the chopping block at the Daily Caller.

I get that some will bring up Candace Owens and claim she's no Christian either. *MAYBE*.

MAYBE she's saying all the right things, for all the wrong reasons. MAYBE she is a charlatan. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised. She does have a shady history. I do hope she's sincere in her proclamations for Christ... but I have my doubts because of that aforementioned history. But the bible even tells us, that even if a Charlatan is telling the truth... for their own gain and not for the furtherance of the Kingdom... that we should still rejoice because still yet the truth of Christ is being proclaimed. Perhaps, if we pray for her... if she is a charlatan... maybe someday her own proclamations will actually start to enter her own heart and become sincere. "Fake it till you make it" kinda thing.

Regardless, this issue goes way beyond Candace Owens.

Again ... I truly hope, that Andrew Klavan recognizes the errors of what he is teaching... the absolute dishonor he has placed upon the martyrs... and the contradiction of Christ's own words. I truly hope, that he said this out of sincere, yet mistaken, belief... and that his belief can be corrected through discipleship and loving correction from fellow Christians. Because the only alternative... is willful heresy... and willful false teaching. The bible, does not have anything good to say about people who willfully and knowingly teach falsehoods.

I've said my piece.

100% didn't read any of that.

I wouldn’t like to subscribe to your newsletter encyclopedia.

What if you're wrong and the other guy's right?

The only way to The Father is through his Son, Jesus. No expectations and no, God is not going to be mocked or loopholed.


Ben Shapiro does not like this? He can enjoy The Lake of Fire. I offer to save Abby.

You can not out smart or play legalism with God.

He might give Abby a pass for very obvious reasons.

You're free to leave then. I didnt point a gun at your head and force you to read this.

People who actually believe in hell and that it is us getting what we deserve and know ourselves unable to have even begun to earn the forgiveness we were given aren't flippant about that stuff.

Believers of a thing will act acording to their beliefs.

I wanted to know what this was about

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Its more about Andrew Klavan than Ben.

Andrew Klavan said these things... not Ben. It is Klavan I take issue with. He purports himself to be Christian, yet is spewing falsehoods that he should know better not to spew.
I hold him to a different standard than Ben.

It first started with the Daily Wire claiming that "Christ is King" is an anti-semitic dog whistle...

Daily Wire staff have been defending their position, and doing a *VERY POOR JOB* defending their position.

Lauren Chen does a good job summarizing it, particularly as it deals with Andrew Klavan's blatant heresy.

Me? Klavan? Or Jewish people?

You will never see a mainstream talking head state that jews have to accept christ. It's too uncouth, and has been for decades.

Klavan's point of view isn't new of course. There's "brethren" out there who deny the exclusiveness of Christ for whatever reason. If I was face to face with him, I would tell him he's denying the faith once delivered, that he was denying the only way to the Father through the shed blood of Christ, I would tell him he is denying the only gospel that can save. If he he came to his senses and repented great, if not, I would count him as one who causes divisions and avoid him.

Klavan can is a fraud and I stopped listening to him since the stratosphere lounge.

You're would mean you, the other guy could be Klavin, or Ben, the Jewish people, or Muslims, Buddhists...

Klavan can is a fraud and I stopped listening to him since the stratosphere lounge.

I’m with you OP. Not a good Christian and struggling with things everyday.

My question is, why do you care what this guy says about Shapiro? Both of these gentlemens salvation is between them and God and the guy that makes statements that are blatantly heretical will answer for them.

Do you believe he’s leading others a stray?

Maybe just worry about your own salvation instead of condemning others.

It doesn't matter if he is wrong. Stating that Jews have to convert shouldn't be a controversial statement regardless. It's not like it's forced under duress. Media figures tend to clam up right quick on that though. They don't want to say anything that could hurt their cash flow.

It is better for a coward to remain silent... than to spew heresy out of fear.

I think that is the idea. He's not doing a favor for Ben, quite the opposite.

The what? School me.

I am calling out heresy.
I dont need to be a perfect Christian, or even a good Christian... to call it out.
In fact, there are *NON-CHRISTIANS* calling Klavan out, and calling him out for being a heretic towards his own proclaimed faith.

If *NON-CHRISTIANS* can call out Klavan... I certainly can too.

There is a truth to be defended.

This is equivalent to saying to someone "no, no, that bridge isn't out, you can get over it just fine" when you know for a fact the bridge is out over deep waters filled with barracudas and sharks.

And you only said that because you were either scared to offend them or you didn't want to hurt their feelings.

As this is a public thing, that means others can watch and some others may also think what he said is true, which leads others to go driving up that bridge too.

If klavan did what OP says he did, that's a huge blinking neon sign that says "I either don't believe the gospel or I'm so confused about what I believe that I don't understand it's necessity."

It's a huge thing and dangerous.

Yes.

And this heresy is spreading. I've seen *SEVERAL* renowned preachers make exemptions for Jewish people.
There is ZERO biblical support for this, and a metric ton of bible verses that directly contradict what Klavan has said.

Don't worry about the "you're not perfect part" in this context, none of us are. Just speak the truth in love...

So if you see someone saying they believe salvation is achieved by a thing you are convicted will lead to the exact opposite, you shouldn't worry about them, just pay attention to your own lot in life?

Do you really want him to hate other people that much?

That's exactly what you're asking him to do.

Oh boy. "You're", as in YOU are. YOU, OP; what if YOU are wrong what if the Jews are right? What if it's the way the Muslims see it? What if it's what the Hindus believe?

You really don't know, do you? You got to believe your belief and let others believe theirs. It ain't worth fussing about.

Oh got it, looked up who he was.

I've been watching that go on for days now, and I genuinely don't understand what the Daily Wire (and the Babylon Bee because they got in on it too) were thinking.  I know they wanted to go after Fuentes, which is already a poor idea because he's irrelevant in the grand scheme, but to attack him for saying "Christ is King" rather than the million other valid reasons to attack him was a mind-numbingly stupid idea. A large swath of Christians that have never even heard of Nick Fuentes took that as an attack on their religion and it did more to validate Fuentes than hurt him.

Ah, the skeptic...we all have a fundamental presupposition, mine is "the bible is true", what's yours?

I had to look up Andrew but he is wrong.

I an condemning what he said. I am calling out as heresy. I hope he recognizes the error of what he is teaching people.
He proclaims himself to be a Christian... and in fact he proclaims himself to be an authority on Christian theology.

He is teaching things that, even *I* know is 100% anti-biblical. He is saying things, that are 100% contrary to what the Bible teaches.

I am trying to be humble here. I admit my failings.
But if I remained silent, or worse... simply went along with what he's saying as part of some sort of desire to not stir controversy.... I'd be guilty of yet more sin. I might sin a lot... I suck. I admit it. But I'm not going to tell people that certain people have an exemption from needing Christ. Be offended if you want to. But its the truth.

Why are you concerning yourself with Andrew Klaven? I don't remember his name in The Bible or any of Jesus's teachings.

I don't think Jesus said you need to keep score on other's sin or wrong doings.

He is a lying, subversive agent who always seeks the interests of himself to the active detriment of our interests, well being, rights, prosperity, safety, etc all the while he plays the roll of a false friend.

Ugh.
Ben is free to believe what he wants.

Klavan calls himself a Christian. Klavan claims to believe in the bible. Yet here he is directly contradicting the bible.
I dont think Ben should be pinned down, have a gun pointed at him, and forced to repent and come to Christ.

I *AM* letting other people believe what they want.
Where have I advocated for violence or force?!

I am calling someone out for claiming to be Christian, while openly espousing heretical unbiblical beliefs. If you don't get it, and you're offended, you're free to leave. I didn't force you to come in here.

Yes. It doesn't really matter if "he", as in the OP, is wrong. He's calling out fundamental hypocracy of someone falsely preaching the from the holy book that he believes. It is worth fussing about if he believes in the basic standards of his religion. There's no point in having a belief system if it's fair weathered and the rules can change at anytime based off of what's most profitable. You might not care about Christianity, but I'm sure you'd want honesty and intellectual consistency from talking heads on subjects that you do care about.

Totally agree if Klavan is preaching a concept in the name of Christ that someone can get to the Father another way, he needs to be rebuked.

But I also believe that God is industrious and just because one idiot says, “hey bud, you get a pass” doesn’t mean God will write that individual off and not present himself on his timetable. In short, I wouldn’t worry about Shapiro.

I also think if OP is so moved by this Klavan dude, he should rebuke him in front of his congregation if possible. I’ve never heard of the guy so am not aware if that’s even a possibility.

Christians are called to confront heresy. This is heresy.

He was spewing the classic “if we make the right arguments we can win over leftists, if we are nice to illegals maybe we can win over Hispanics as a voter block” and  other Neo Con bullshit.

One of the reasons why I stopped watching Bill Whittle.

Jesus is the only way. There was no other path the moment he let out his last breath on the cross. Klaven should know better if he ever really was a believer in Christ. He may have put his immortal soul in great peril by encouraging Ben to ignore that quiet voice that is probably working on him right now considering that many are likely praying for him.

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ETA: I'm not a Christian, but if I was I wouldn't concern myself with a whole bunch of extra shit. I'd just study and follow The Bible.

Why do you care what OP has to say about klavan?

It almost seems like you're keeping score on OP for doing something you think shouldn't have been done.

Did Jesus and the Apostles rebuke unbelievers and wayward believers? I think they did, especially if they went public. Should we not be like Jesus and the Apostles. But let's not let anger get the better of us. God will change whom He wills to.

Klavan made the statements publicly on the internet. Not just in his church.



ETA : I listened to the whole thing and I didn't hear klavan say ben doesn't have to embrace Christ as messiah. Or anything that means that but in different words.

If there's another place where he did that, someone please link me.

The bible says that the only way to be saved from getting what we rightly deserve from God (justice) is to believe Christ is the jewish messiah (it just means savior) and also for all kinds of people besides jews. Emphasis on the ONLY way.

You're saying follow the bible.

Ok:



Not one iota of ground is ever to be given on the gospel, ever, to anyone, under any circumstances, ever.