Happy holidays to everyone!

This is an article that i highly recommend everyone read.  As someone that deals with these sorts of things on a regular basis i would recommend that you rethink your "bone protocol" if you have one.

NO BONES ABOUT IT: Bones are unsafe for your dog

Raw Split Beef Knuckles...

My girls shit their little fur britches when they get these.

They also LOVE Raw Turkey necks, Raw Chicken feet / legs / necks, Raw Duck feet / legs / necks, Rabbits (not cooked of course...), deleted comment about cats



Mine don't do so well 'poopie wise' with pork. I try to NOT give them any of that sort of stuff.

That article you posted was from the FDA.  These are the same idiots that tell us that fresh eggs MUST be refrigerated or else they will spoil and /or give us salmonella or some other shit that will kill us.

WHERE the hell was the FDA not so long ago before anyone even HAD a refrigerator to 'safely' store their fresh eggs in??? (Ans: People didn't wash the protective blume off and SAFELY stored them for a good bit of time (weeks or more) in a basket on the countertop or in the pantry with NO adverse results)


'Old' chickens are good for either chicken and dumplins (IF you got a good crockpot AND cooking skills) OR dogfood.



DONT cook the bones if designated as 'dogfood' is the general rule to follow. Cooked bones can splinter and cause issues - Raw is not the same...

Dog should NOT be eating anything you don't 'give' it and Dogs 'should' be supervised while eating 'no matter what' is the general 'rule' I follow.

My current  girls follow these rules as well... Will STOP eating and follow me if I leave the room during their meal.

I won't argue with my vet, or the OP for that matter, no bones for my goofy dogs. First poster, I'm glad you know better...

I think the point is that the article is referring to COOKED bones. RAW bones (and raw meaty pieces with bone, like chicken necks and backs) are fine for a dog of sufficient size. Keeps their teeth clean as well.

Personally i'm not a fan of any sort of bone, rawhide, etc. I've just seen too many horror stories.  Unfortunately i also have a lot of clients who didn't know that its a bad idea to give their dogs bones so i always make a point to try to educate clients and i thought this article was brief and to the point.  What you do at home is certainly up to you

Having read the article, I didn't quite see that, where did you see them make the distinction between cooked or raw?

My "bone protocol" is KONG protocol.

I have spent thousands of dollars extracting indigestible items from my dogs. I have a jar of souvenir rocks, that came out of them.  

KONG are indigestible, but the pieces are small and non abrasive.

Black XXL KONG are the only approved chew toys of the Mongrel Horde.

BUT, if I was going to give them bones, they would absolutely positively be uncooked.

Hydrogen Peroxide could have got those rocks back out for CHEAP...

Yup...

Some of the raw 'meaty' bones available at some feed stores are even 'pressure treated' to kill any unwanted bacteria. (not 'cooked' but still 'treated' so there is no chance of salmonella or other stuff like that... - No need for this if the meat is really 'fresh' and properly handled before giving it to fido...)  

I'm not really a big fan of bones either.   My dogs are crazy and will chew them until they are gushing blood from their gums.  

I also don't like the risk…   My wife and I spent $2400 once because her dumb poodle decided to eat a sock.  She had to have 8 inches of her colon removed.   I like to stick with food and an occasional treat.  

$2400 could have been a nice rifle and some ammo to go with it….  

Our St. Bernard eats raw chicken leg quarters. He loves it. Takes a dump like mofo.

YOU HAVE BEAUTIFUL DOBES!
oh i wish i had a doberman.

Bingo.  These sorts of things are never a problem until they are a problem.  Unfortunately too many people learn the hard way about whats ok for their pets, etc.  I'm not going to go into a big deal with it but i don't recommend bones and most animal products.  Kongs are a good option.  

As far as hydrogen peroxide....i would not recommend that at all for a case of ingestion of gravel/rocks, etc.  Some items that are ingested can cause more problems when "coming back up".

Okay Doc, what's your opinion on letting your dog "knaw" on something like a beef tendon, chicken foot, or pig snout to clean their teeth?

I tried beef patellas with my dox and it was just too big and she refused to chew on it at all.  I had to go to something smaller.

As a vet too I don't recommend bones. My dog gets the Xxl black kongs too. My favorite surgeries are GI foreign body removals so you all keep on feeding those bones against advice. I'd do gastrotomies and enterotomies all day if I could.

Love it!

As a vet who mainly does dentistry, I would avoid all bones (raw or cooked) and antlers.  I have had to extract or perform root canal therapy on too many teeth that fractured from hard chew toys/bones/antlers.

Only three vets agree, no bones? Hell ARF ain't gots no time fo dat! I dos whats I wanna do! I gots me a ar15 (well, ok, a bubbfied sks) and a pit, a badass pit, and he eats bones whiles dey still be on da peoples...

(sarcasm), personally, I agree with you guys, but you'll see the REAL "I do what I wanna do" boys along shortly...

Bone is a critical component of a raw diet, and (when fed by people with a little knowledge and sense) causes no problems whatsoever. Sadly, those two critical traits are lacking in the vast majority of people these days.

I agree with the second part.  I'm not a big fan of the raw diet concept (we don't need to discuss it though) but i am a big fan of your new avatar!

Thank you. Most of the "best practice" tips from vets are applicable to the vast majority of owners, because the vast majority of owners lack those two critical traits. For those willing to invest the time, research, responsibility, and dedication, there are alternative, healthier methods, but those clients are few and far between. Sort of like the difference between keeping a 10 gallon freshwater aquarium from a kit and a 10 gallon saltwater reef tank.

Deleted.

What about pig ears (made in USA)?  My dog can eat 2/3's of it by cracking it into pieces and then the drool softens up the last 1/3.  Should I be concerned enough not to give her any?

I asked the same question above, only I give beef tendons and pig snouts.
No answer.  

Ill have to check out the pig snouts at the pet store, I am not familiar with how hard they are.  My general rule of thumb for chew toy recommendations are as follows:
If the product will bend or flex a little when manipulated or you can easily dig your fingernail into it a bit, then it has a lower tendency of breaking teeth.  No flex or real hard- will eventually break something.

Having said that, if a dog swallows a piece that is too large and it gets stuck "downstream", then your looking at potential surgery.  You have to know your dog.  If he/she will inhale large pieces, avoid them or at least monitor VERY closely.

Most pig ears are OK, but I would avoid the real thick ones.  Rawhide wafers or chips tend to be OK as long as they don't choke on it or get a GI  obstruction.

Pig snout does indeed allow me to put my fingernail into it pretty easily.
Tendons, not so much.  They are harder, like a pig ear would be.

My dox can eat a mini tendon in about 30 minutes.

I would recommend NOT using vinegar or "water solutions", depending on what water solutions actually consist of.  There are always going to be those dogs that have recurring ear infections; a good prescription cleaner and medication (based on the cytology of the ear infection itself) is your best bet.

Could also try a raw diet. I've seen it completely eliminate chronic yeasty ear infections on multiple occasions.



Don't tranq me, bro!

So Nylabones are out all the way around? Or okay when supervised. I have a 6 yo Boxer/Mastiff and a 1 yo American Bulldog (90 lb). The pup is a POWERFUL chewer as one could imagine and has basically had his way with anything we can throw at him. I have considered the superkong or whatever the black one is called, but the older dog is able to shred one of those. Cant imagine what the pup could do. Been looking for options to give him while we are away and have as yet been able to come up with anything better than one of the giant twin textured nylabones.

I'm going to disagree. Raw bones are entirely safe, as long as you give a size appropriate to your dog, and monitor them just like you would any other chew. Raw bones are hard yes, but not as hard as cooked bones. They don't splinter like cooked bones do.

Cooked bones are where the danger lies. Cooking the bones completely changes the molecular structure of the bones, making them more prone to cracking and splintering.

I believe this article was written about the danger of cooked bones, completely disregarding the benefit of chewing raw bones.

If large or thick enough, raw bone will break teeth also.

Pretty much all raw feeders agree not to feed the long bones of any ruminant, and most avoid beef bones as well.

My dogs need their teeth to bite people with, not going to ruin them on bones. I had a asshole living behind me that liked to throw bones over the fence, it stopped when my male went over the fence after him and the police showed up and advised him not to do it again. My dogs wouldn't touch them as they did not come from me. One of the worst dogs fights I ever witnessed was over a damn bone.

I just thought I would post what I feed my dogs, I have a Pitt and a GSD mix. They both love chewing and the vet we take our Pitt to said he had never seen such health clean teeth. I have feed them pet store bones, and rawhide's but here's what I have found.  Rawhides cause constipation and do not digest as easy. Antlers are really expensive and neither of my dogs really liked them, most of the time with the other bones like knuckle bones and stuff they would chew the stuff off the outside and leave the rest to be stepped on. I started going to a local butcher, and there I buy only raw meat bones. They sell raw pig's ears in a 3 pack and Ox tails which have some red-meat and a small bone. The occasional raw ham shank is OK but it can not be smoked or it will splinter. The raw meat helps with the protein intake and helps keep them very active. But I do have larger dogs so I wouldn't recommend these for the small ankle biters But I do also watch them eat to make sure there's no choking or otherwise threats.  Just my .2 cents.

They do get soup poops after eating the rawer stuff but it doesn't last long.

My dogs are raw fed, (feed raw chicken 1/4's, beef ribs, venison ribs, venison, green tripe, beef liver, beef kidney, heart, etc) but do avoid the weight bearing bones...as they can spall, fracture, cracked their teeth. I also don't feed rawhides, or anything made in china. A great place for bully stocks is a site called Best Bully Sticks dot com...since their so expensive at the pet store.
Great post, and certainly understand that raw feeding isn't for everyone.

I've got a power-chewer as well (male Cane Corso/Pit mix) who has destroyed several "indestructible" toys, and we've finally landed on Goughnut Rings (so far the Pro 50 is holding up, but we'll step up to the Maxx Pro 50 if needed).  I like that these are made in the US, and have a guarantee/replacement program where you can ship back a broken toy with a check to cover return shipping and you get a new toy.  Also, these toys have a red center, which works as an indicator that the toy is compromised and needs to be replaced.

Previously, we'd tried a green Goughnut stick (which we had from before we got our Corso/pit - and ended up replacing with the ring toy) and some other "indestructible" stick type toy - they each lasted less than 20 minutes.  I think with the stick type stuff, our guy will identify a weak point and work it until the toy starts to break down, at which point I'm off to the post office to mail it back for a replacement/refund.  With the ring, he can't hold/work the toy to destruction, but will get a good chew session with it until he gets bored/realizes he's not going to shred the toy.

My old dog Gus would have been a problem if he hadn't had his rawhide pieces (Most of the time, he got the "Chew-Eez" brand ones) to eat like potato chips. He went through a box of them a day, minimum, for about 13 of his 14 years. We got him on Wed, and on Thursday, bought a new minivan. What I was thinking, I don't know, but he proceeded to cause major damage to it almost instantly by eating the rear carpet, sound deadener stuff, and then, while the stereo was being fixed, the wires for the stereo. Then came the seat belts. Nylabones, even at 4 months old, were a joke, they lasted a few minutes before they were broken into pieces and swallowed. You never knew what he had eaten until it came back out the next day. Sometimes it was a total mystery! We started giving him rawhide strips and were able to get him to concentrate on those only. We had them all over the house. The big Kongs were ripped up really quickly, as were the rawhide "bones" friends gave him for his birthday/Xmas (2 days apart). You can't see in the pic how huge that head was and how powerful that mouth was. I could put my whole hand in there, and with his front teeth on my wrist, the tips of my fingers weren't quite touching the back of hie throat. He had "finger amputatin' teeth" as a couple of vets put it. One of them said, "If you don't respect that mouth, you're gonna have a bad day someday!"

Even at 14+, you could hear him sawing up those rawhide pieces, night and day. The noise he made when he would crank on the thick ones is a sound I can't duplicate, but can never forget. His jaw muscles would make a "HMMMM: sound when he really cranked on something, and you could also hear a "Urk urk urk!" as he worked them through his mouth. When he died, his teeth were still white and he had no signs of any gum or tooth issues, except for the one tooth that had a point broken off after a friend gave him a cow hoof. When he shattered it on the first real bite, he broke one of his molars too. This is his "You've got to stay home!" glare. He did not like staying home when we went out.