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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:50:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Dont pay half upfront.
Tell him you'll pay for the materials and have them delivered to your house, just have him place the order then you pay. Pay him for his labor once the install is complete. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:57:13 AM EDT
[#2]
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the guy who did my driveway about (2500 sq feet of pavers) had a flip phone and no idea of how to use the computer old school guy work ethic and ability even though fairly young when i told him my plan he smiled and said that would be shit this is the right way and then told me his plan hired him on the spot could not be more pleased was not the low bid but very fair price actually very cheap for the quality job he did I know a guy that has a guy that does exclusively high dollar kitchens. He tells all of his clients that under no circumstance are they to talk to him at all because he is... rough around the edges(?) to say the least. He told me something about a wife with daughter in a private school uniform coming home and talking to him, and him making an inappropriate comment about the kids uniforms or beliefs or whatever (pretty sure it wash sexual, I'd recall). I hear he does phenomenal work, though. I have had to tell a few customers that I could build that, but I won't and here is why. I get some of those customers, but a lot of people want what they want and that's it. Try telling a stingy Westinghouse engineer that you can't offset his Keystone block wall with 4 curves in it because that 1/4 offset translates into a several inch gap by the time you get to the top course. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:59:17 AM EDT
[#3]
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Not sure what makes him a deadbeat. Anybody who has ever owned or operated a small business knows 90% of the trouble comes from 10% of the customers, and those 10% will also nickel and dime you to boot. A 200 sq ft paver job does not seem like it would be worth dealing with an irritating customer, especially if there was other work in the area. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Spoken like a true deadbeat. 
To add to what I posted above, we just completed a 50K remodel. There were issues, beam in the wrong spot that had to be moved to fit with the plan, electrical, floors had to be done twice, etc. And on a 50K job these guys were over by 2K with the above included. We were very happy. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:03:14 AM EDT
[#4]
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Yep. remove sod, level with sand, lay down pavers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You're sweating a 10x20 paver install way too hard. You forgot the compacted 2b. I prefer linestone dust over sand. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:10:44 AM EDT
[#5]
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What job did they do for you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, I am particularly anal about policing our trash being a landscape guy. But any contractor worth their salt knows that cleaning up after yourself is just as important as doing a good job. It's an image, or branding thing. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:12:55 AM EDT
[#6]
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Any contractor who asks for 1/2 up front is not a good contractor. That is the #1 red flag for me. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:28:19 AM EDT
[#7]
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Half up front is to much. 10-15% tops is your down payment. Negotiate a draw schedule if you like but never get ahead of the labor or material costs . Myself I am booked out until September right now. Most people are willing to wait for a known quality and unless you are in dire needs of this right now I would wait. Reviews mean very little, I have been doing my trade almost 25 years now and I don't think I have 1 review out there in the wide world. I don't advertise and I turn down thousands in work weekly. All my jobs are referral based and I very seldom talk a cold call for work anymore. I just did a roof for a an arfcommer and I didn't take a cent until the job was complete, and I never do on any of my jobs. I only worked woo days last year and didn't know snow a single time, and I am still baffled with how well I did. I did have 2 PT jobs for the first half of the year that aren't factored into the workdays. I'm on pace for 140 this year. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:30:56 AM EDT
[#8]
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Actually yeah, most will have a revolving door type account at the supply house with terms usually in the 30-45 day range .I haven't taken money up front not even down payments for over 20 years. I am financially sound and don't need the next jobs down payment to finish out my current work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are you paying anything up front. If he doesn't have enough capital to work on his dime......I wouldn't be doing bussines with him. Get the job done and I will pay the agreed upon amount. AR15-SBR contractor buys material on his dime yeaaaaaaaaaaaa I do that for pretty much everything in my personal life. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:31:59 AM EDT
[#9]
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You can add pack if you want, but it truly is not that complicated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No. You are very wrong. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:44:22 AM EDT
[#10]
Any "contractor" that askes for front money can hit the road. To me that is the sign of bad business practice and chances are that contractor won't be around long.
I just had a $19k garage floor redo(and other stuff) and the Contractor never once asked for money until the job was done....to me that was the sign of a "Business" and how it was written iin the contract. AR15-SBR |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:47:33 AM EDT
[#11]
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One of the company workers on a crew I recently hired threw the garbage from his lunch in my front bushes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, I am particularly anal about policing our trash being a landscape guy. But any contractor worth their salt knows that cleaning up after yourself is just as important as doing a good job. It's an image, or branding thing. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 10:57:22 AM EDT
[#12]
We dont have a website of a face book page and have been i business 30 years or so. Some companies don't want or need to deal with that bullshit
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Posted: 6/29/2017 11:00:13 AM EDT
[#13]
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Painting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, I am particularly anal about policing our trash being a landscape guy. But any contractor worth their salt knows that cleaning up after yourself is just as important as doing a good job. It's an image, or branding thing. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 1:07:00 PM EDT
[#14]
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We might have used the same guys. Last painters I hired left chicken bones in the bushes and shit behind my well house. Nasty fuckers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, I am particularly anal about policing our trash being a landscape guy. But any contractor worth their salt knows that cleaning up after yourself is just as important as doing a good job. It's an image, or branding thing. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 1:11:02 PM EDT
[#15]
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Painting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Also, I am particularly anal about policing our trash being a landscape guy. But any contractor worth their salt knows that cleaning up after yourself is just as important as doing a good job. It's an image, or branding thing. 
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Posted: 6/29/2017 1:16:37 PM EDT
[#16]
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You're sweating a 10x20 paver install way too hard. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 1:23:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Do yourself a solid OP and wait til fall for the good ones.
All the red flags are there for you, most glaring is his immediate availability. ETA: LOL yup 20 x 10 be glad this guy is willing to take the job. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 1:30:35 PM EDT
[#18]
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so you want the contractor to finance you interest free contractor buys material on his dime yeaaaaaaaaaaaa Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are you paying anything up front. If he doesn't have enough capital to work on his dime......I wouldn't be doing bussines with him. Get the job done and I will pay the agreed upon amount. AR15-SBR contractor buys material on his dime yeaaaaaaaaaaaa A deposit is pretty standard in construction/renovation and contractors typically make very little margin on the materials afaik. It's not a red flag at all depending on the materials being used. If the deposit is significantly higher than the materials cost because it's a cheap materials and labor intensive job, that might be a red flag because that's the kind of job a contractor can afford to walk away from before his labor costs get too high. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 2:57:29 PM EDT
[#19]
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Actually yeah, most will have a revolving door type account at the supply house with terms usually in the 30-45 day range .I haven't taken money up front not even down payments for over 20 years. I am financially sound and don't need the next jobs down payment to finish out my current work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are you paying anything up front. If he doesn't have enough capital to work on his dime......I wouldn't be doing bussines with him. Get the job done and I will pay the agreed upon amount. AR15-SBR contractor buys material on his dime yeaaaaaaaaaaaa 1. you meet with customer to discuss project and quote a price 2. you save date and turn down any projects that might interfere with customers project 3. you review architectural drawings,or review customers drawing,or at least a detailed conversation about what customer expections are 4. you and customer both sign a detailed contract with timelines and what can disrupt those timelines(town inspections,utility co. mark outs) 5. you go to the town and obtain permits on your dime 6. you have your insurance co name customer additional insured on your dime(whether you have a plug in on your policy or i dont know) 7. you purchase all materials 8. you pay all labor 9. you obtain inspections and sign off 10. at this point the customer pays for job in full okay you are a great contractor if you dont have a contract which by law requires remuneration to be binding. and a progression based payment schedule with a hold-back for completion for the customer your business practices are unethical and protect no one not you or you customer. put you pride where it belongs in your work and treat your business as a business |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 5:41:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Go look at a job he is doing right NOW. Show up first thing in the morning and see if they have their shit together or show up late and hung over. Do some reading on the subject so you know what you are looking at.
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Posted: 6/29/2017 8:26:13 PM EDT
[#21]
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One of the company workers on a crew I recently hired threw the garbage from his lunch in my front bushes. I ended up one night sending my on call guy out to a customers house because he left trash --partly eaten food and wrappers all over the basement of this guys house. he was a good plumber but a f-in slob. Hed walk in a house with shitty muddy boots on and tromp right thru the kitchen and living room carpet and not give it a thought.... He walked in my wife's office one time -- all I heard was "JESUS F---ING CHRIST BOB!!!! GET THE F OUTTA HERE!! DONT COME IN HERE LIKE THAT !!!" He walks out to the garage and tells me my wife must be "PMS'ing or something" he was covered head to toe in sewage..... some people have no concept. |
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Posted: 6/29/2017 9:03:50 PM EDT
[#22]
IMO, it's one thing to float someone on a 15k job. I'd expect to pay a deposit there.
But a downpayment on a what, 1.5-2.5k job? If you're a contractor that's available immediately, and you want a down payment that amounts to several hundred dollars, there's a reason, and it ain't good. |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 12:14:55 AM EDT
[#23]
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Holy shit, I kind of feel bad for laughing at your expense. He's right about the insurance, but a professional will usually preface with an apology. Shut happens. I had a Bobcat mini skid steer go down on my on a job once. It was my former bosses job, and the idiot driving the machine kept burrying himself because he would make really sharp turns in soft mud. Boss started freaking out because the machine wouldn't throttle up and we were boned without it While the debated his options, the homeowner asks me what's going on. I asked him if he had a socket set and if I could use it, which he affirmed. I got into the engine bay and after a cursory glance I noticed that the ground terminal had sheared while retard was digging himself a home to the Indian ocean. I had to improvise, but 15 minutes and a zip tie later I had the machine fully functioning for the duration of the job. I got a $1000 bonus that week. The funny thing is that the other laborers were busting my balls thinking I wasn't going to accomplish anything. That's also when my boss started showing me the ins and outs of business. Anyway, at least my boss was considering renting a replacement and eating the loss as opposed to asking the customer to help. He was just lucky to have me on hand, although he wasn't thrilled when I took the liberty to ask for tools. However, everyone involved was happier than a lark once the machine was back to normal operation. Idk how you feel about a quick loan of tools in that situation. I never bill more. I buy off more than I could chew a few times early on where I made nothing and finished a week late. I was honest with the customer about my mistakes and blamed no one but myself. I got a lot of follow up work and referrals from them when I did complete the job. I have also had customers slide things into the job that isn't in the contract, and I was green enough to not stop and alter the contract. I would have fired Xanax guy as the boss, or would have told the contractor that Xanax guy wasn't welcome on my property had I been you. Also, I am particularly anal about policing our trash being a landscape guy. But any contractor worth their salt knows that cleaning up after yourself is just as important as doing a good job. It's an image, or branding thing. They actually made snide comments about me coming to the door in my underwear. The only reason I did that is that I work nights and was woken up due to PICTURES FALLING OFF THE FRIGGIN WALLS due to that moron trying to break the front steps with the 9k lb babcat. I just wanted that fucker out of there. Last I heard from a contractor redoing the landing they went under with over 100k in debt. Fancy trailer with lighting and stereo, blinged out trucks, $200 shades........no common sense. |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 12:17:40 AM EDT
[#24]
Who is going to do your stamped engineered drawings?
Hydrology report? Soil samples? |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 12:26:00 AM EDT
[#25]
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Painting. Dont get me started on painters. If I ever suffer a serious life altering head injury I think Ill become one. |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 12:49:40 AM EDT
[#26]
I will try anything myself once. Have you considered doing it yourself?
Sometimes, if you want it done right you have to do it yourself. That being said. From now on landscaping and plumbing will be done by a trusted contractor. I got the jobs done, but it is a pain in the ass if you don't do it often. I just did a new shower/tub enclosure and thought I was going to to pull my hair out. Did some landscaping around the house with pavers last year and while it wasn't rocket science it was a ton of work. The last thing I want to do after 55 hours of manual labor during the week at work, but if you have the time give it a shot. |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 12:49:46 AM EDT
[#27]
I don't mind paying for materials or progress payments, in fact I prefer to. I would rather not have the contractor build the cost and risks of financing my project into his price.
Edit: Pay for materials on delivery with proof of payment by the contractor to the supplier, and realize that the contractor is going to mark up the materials if he buys them. Likewise, progress payments should be agreed in advance, and sufficient funds held back until completion. |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 12:51:04 AM EDT
[#28]
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so let me understand this clearly 1. you meet with customer to discuss project and quote a price 2. you save date and turn down any projects that might interfere with customers project 3. you review architectural drawings,or review customers drawing,or at least a detailed conversation about what customer expections are 4. you and customer both sign a detailed contract with timelines and what can disrupt those timelines(town inspections,utility co. mark outs) 5. you go to the town and obtain permits on your dime 6. you have your insurance co name customer additional insured on your dime(whether you have a plug in on your policy or i dont know) 7. you purchase all materials 8. you pay all labor 9. you obtain inspections and sign off 10. at this point the customer pays for job in full okay you are a great contractor if you dont have a contract which by law requires remuneration to be binding. and a progression based payment schedule with a hold-back for completion for the customer your business practices are unethical and protect no one not you or you customer. put you pride where it belongs in your work and treat your business as a business Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are you paying anything up front. If he doesn't have enough capital to work on his dime......I wouldn't be doing bussines with him. Get the job done and I will pay the agreed upon amount. AR15-SBR contractor buys material on his dime yeaaaaaaaaaaaa 1. you meet with customer to discuss project and quote a price 2. you save date and turn down any projects that might interfere with customers project 3. you review architectural drawings,or review customers drawing,or at least a detailed conversation about what customer expections are 4. you and customer both sign a detailed contract with timelines and what can disrupt those timelines(town inspections,utility co. mark outs) 5. you go to the town and obtain permits on your dime 6. you have your insurance co name customer additional insured on your dime(whether you have a plug in on your policy or i dont know) 7. you purchase all materials 8. you pay all labor 9. you obtain inspections and sign off 10. at this point the customer pays for job in full okay you are a great contractor if you dont have a contract which by law requires remuneration to be binding. and a progression based payment schedule with a hold-back for completion for the customer your business practices are unethical and protect no one not you or you customer. put you pride where it belongs in your work and treat your business as a business Everything I do is according to law here. It may be different where you are. To come out and say I'm unethical is asinine and makes you look like an idiot. All I know is that I have 25 years under my belt with 20 of them owning my own business and in that time I have never had 1 single compliant. There is multiple contractors in here saying they also don't take any money up front, so I guess they are unethical also? Get fucking real dude |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 12:54:18 AM EDT
[#29]
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The only way to tell is how bro is his brodozer. If it's not at least a 350/3500 series steer clear.
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Posted: 6/30/2017 6:36:24 AM EDT
[#30]
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Yes I do pretty much all of those line items. California is one of if not the strictest when it comes to building codes and protecting homeowners. Our contracts have to have a multitude of items to meet state law such as certain color text at certain points as well as font size. Everything I do is according to law here. It may be different where you are. To come out and say I'm unethical is asinine and makes you look like an idiot. All I know is that I have 25 years under my belt with 20 of them owning my own business and in that time I have never had 1 single compliant. There is multiple contractors in here saying they also don't take any money up front, so I guess they are unethical also? Get fucking real dude Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are you paying anything up front. If he doesn't have enough capital to work on his dime......I wouldn't be doing bussines with him. Get the job done and I will pay the agreed upon amount. AR15-SBR contractor buys material on his dime yeaaaaaaaaaaaa 1. you meet with customer to discuss project and quote a price 2. you save date and turn down any projects that might interfere with customers project 3. you review architectural drawings,or review customers drawing,or at least a detailed conversation about what customer expections are 4. you and customer both sign a detailed contract with timelines and what can disrupt those timelines(town inspections,utility co. mark outs) 5. you go to the town and obtain permits on your dime 6. you have your insurance co name customer additional insured on your dime(whether you have a plug in on your policy or i dont know) 7. you purchase all materials 8. you pay all labor 9. you obtain inspections and sign off 10. at this point the customer pays for job in full okay you are a great contractor if you dont have a contract which by law requires remuneration to be binding. and a progression based payment schedule with a hold-back for completion for the customer your business practices are unethical and protect no one not you or you customer. put you pride where it belongs in your work and treat your business as a business Everything I do is according to law here. It may be different where you are. To come out and say I'm unethical is asinine and makes you look like an idiot. All I know is that I have 25 years under my belt with 20 of them owning my own business and in that time I have never had 1 single compliant. There is multiple contractors in here saying they also don't take any money up front, so I guess they are unethical also? Get fucking real dude asinine is the definition of what you are doing California lays out laws regarding payment schedules and timeline progression payments and yes what i do is very different than you |
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Posted: 6/30/2017 6:55:10 AM EDT
[#31]
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i said your business practices are unethical asinine is the definition of what you are doing California lays out laws regarding payment schedules and timeline progression payments and yes what i do is very different than you Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Why are you paying anything up front. If he doesn't have enough capital to work on his dime......I wouldn't be doing bussines with him. Get the job done and I will pay the agreed upon amount. AR15-SBR contractor buys material on his dime yeaaaaaaaaaaaa 1. you meet with customer to discuss project and quote a price 2. you save date and turn down any projects that might interfere with customers project 3. you review architectural drawings,or review customers drawing,or at least a detailed conversation about what customer expections are 4. you and customer both sign a detailed contract with timelines and what can disrupt those timelines(town inspections,utility co. mark outs) 5. you go to the town and obtain permits on your dime 6. you have your insurance co name customer additional insured on your dime(whether you have a plug in on your policy or i dont know) 7. you purchase all materials 8. you pay all labor 9. you obtain inspections and sign off 10. at this point the customer pays for job in full okay you are a great contractor if you dont have a contract which by law requires remuneration to be binding. and a progression based payment schedule with a hold-back for completion for the customer your business practices are unethical and protect no one not you or you customer. put you pride where it belongs in your work and treat your business as a business Everything I do is according to law here. It may be different where you are. To come out and say I'm unethical is asinine and makes you look like an idiot. All I know is that I have 25 years under my belt with 20 of them owning my own business and in that time I have never had 1 single compliant. There is multiple contractors in here saying they also don't take any money up front, so I guess they are unethical also? Get fucking real dude asinine is the definition of what you are doing California lays out laws regarding payment schedules and timeline progression payments and yes what i do is very different than you
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