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Posted: 2/20/2017 5:04:06 PM EDT
[#1]
There are a metric fuckton of Americans in my area that are scratching for jobs in construction, warehouse and assembly. We don't need any more coming here to swing hammers under the table for 5 bucks an hour.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 5:07:12 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at the number of people out of work who have quit looking. I forget the acronym for it but the number is roughly 95 million. Labor force participation rate From June 2016: "A record 94,708,000 Americans were not in the labor force in May -- 664,000 more than in April -- and the labor force participation rate dropped two-tenths of a point to 62.6 percent, near its 38-year low, the Labor Department's Bureau of Labor Statistics reported on Friday. When President Obama took office in January 2009, 80,529,000 Americans were not participating in the labor force; since then, 14,179,000 Americans have left the workforce -- some of them retiring and some just quitting because they can't find work." Yup, that 4.9% folks throw around is the percentage of people who are drawing unemployment. When it runs out or they give up they are no longer counted in the unemployment numbers. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 5:15:53 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are a metric fuckton of Americans in my area that are scratching for jobs in construction, warehouse and assembly. We don't need any more coming here to swing hammers under the table for 5 bucks an hour. Why not? I own 3 older rental properties. I like to buy services to maintain those properties for as little as I can. This benefits me and my tenants. Do you try to get as good of a deal on goods/services as you can, or no? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 5:22:06 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not? I own 3 older rental properties. I like to buy services to maintain those properties for as little as I can. This benefits me and my tenants. Do you try to get as good of a deal on goods/services as you can, or no? You have a good point. I will turn this around on you. How much do you get monthly for those rental properties? Whatever it is, I demand that you rent one to me for 25% of your current rate. Same approach that you expect. Does that change your mind? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 5:26:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have a good point. I will turn this around on you. How much do you get monthly for those rental properties? Whatever it is, I demand that you rent one to me for 25% of your current rate. Same approach that you expect. Does that change your mind? For the three rentals it's about $3300/month. What the hell are you talking about "I demand"? I don't understand, at all, the point you are making? If you were to demand that I rent you a house for less than I am willing to rent it for, I would tell you to fuck off. Same as if I wanted a plumber to do a job for less than he was willing to do it. If I told a plumber "I demand you do this job for 25% of your current rate" he would say "Fuck off", and that's his right. I could either accept the plumber's quote for the work, negotiate, or I can look elsewhere. It's no different for renting a house than it is for buying construction services. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 5:39:41 PM EDT
[#6]
No !!!! I don't think we should take in anymore immigrants unless they have something to offer like Doctors , scientists stuff like that ... we have enough unskilled laborers of our own ...
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Posted: 2/20/2017 5:43:52 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not? I own 3 older rental properties. I like to buy services to maintain those properties for as little as I can. This benefits me and my tenants. Do you try to get as good of a deal on goods/services as you can, or no? Oh I get it. Bottom line is the bottom line. I just don't think we need uneducated folks from 3rd world shit holes to do it. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 5:54:24 PM EDT
[#8]
If there's no handouts who would come here?
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Posted: 2/20/2017 5:57:42 PM EDT
[#9]
OP, what do you think you're talking about, because I don't think you're talking about what you think you're talking about.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:21:35 PM EDT
[#10]
Bullshit. Must be FLUENT in English, pass a legitimate citizenship test, have a marketable job skill AND show proficiency in it.
Adopt a shitpile of laws that other countries have in place to protect its workers. Don't let another fucking Student Visa or allow any immigration from South America, Africa, or the Middle East for say 10 years. Find all current illegals, arrest them, seize all of their property...sell it to defray the cost of more deportations and oh; BUILD THE FUCKING WALL. PS> Change the citizenship law so that only naturalized citizens or US citizens can create an American citizen. No more 1 US Citizen + Illegal Alien = US Citizen, or no pregnant woman running across the border and popping out her kid = American citizen. Fuck that shit. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:23:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Let's suppose that becoming a legal citizen was as easy as a $5 filing fee and a passport photo, and the entire process took 2 weeks from start to finish. We will also suppose that there is no welfare in this situation. I hear how great legal immigrants are, but would people still hold this sentiment if virtually anybody could immigrate here legally quickly and easily? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:23:45 PM EDT
[#12]
I already support legal immigration.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:26:03 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why? What about an unskilled 18 year old with a 160 IQ? What about a low IQ "hammer swinger" that is willing to work 12 hour workdays in construction for $7.00/hour? What is inherently wrong with more cheap labor? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:26:09 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh I get it. Bottom line is the bottom line. I just don't think we need uneducated folks from 3rd world shit holes to do it. Okay, then you answered my question. Your problem doesn't seem to be with illegal immigrants, but rather with immigrants, legal or otherwise, that are uneducated/from 3rd world shitholes. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:26:10 PM EDT
[#15]
 Immigration, World Poverty and Gumballs  Immigration Gumballs Part 1#  Immigration Gumballs Part 2# |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:28:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So basically: You: You're stupid. Me: How so? You: You just are. <Edited -40xb> |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:29:21 PM EDT
[#17]
Immigration should be hard, otherwise you won't appreciate what you have. Furthermore, it should be limited as the nation has need. It is our children's birthright that is being generously handed to a stranger.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:31:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
An overabundance? In a free market an "overabundance" of labor would lead to cheaper labor. I like cheap labor. Now, if I was only versed in the kind of labor of which there was an overabundance, then my standard of living might drop as a result of increased competition, but so what? I would do well to innovate or to become proficient in something more valuable. I would rather pay a plumber $7/hour than $70/hour. I am guessing that you like the prices you pay for services to be as low as possible, no? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:32:41 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right... "become proficient in something more valuable"... until there's nothing left. How does a non-skilled laborer "become proficient in something more valuable"? They're non-skilled for any number of reasons. Do you think all those folks are working low-paying jobs because they want to? There's a good reason most countries make it difficult to immigrate unless you have legitimate skills to offer. See, that's the problem with you Leftists, you have no long-term vision. You're all about the here and now with no regard for consequences. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:35:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you pretend to love free market-in a truly free market the consumer sets the price for goods and services. I "pretend" to love the free market? What does that mean? In a free market, prices are determined by supply and demand. More people able to provide labor = cheaper labor. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you are an unskilled employee, you would probably be well-served by acquiring more valuable skills. If you don't wish to do so, I don't really give a shit, but don't cry to Uncle Sugar to keep others, that are willing to do your job for less, away. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:39:48 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not? I own 3 older rental properties. I like to buy services to maintain those properties for as little as I can. This benefits me and my tenants. Do you try to get as good of a deal on goods/services as you can, or no? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:41:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I "pretend" to love the free market? What does that mean? In a free market, prices are determined by supply and demand. More people able to provide labor = cheaper labor. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you are an unskilled employee, you would probably be well-served by acquiring more valuable skills. If you don't wish to do so, I don't really give a shit, but don't cry to Uncle Sugar to keep others, that are willing to do your job for less, away. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:42:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your example is whack, while you advocate for lower prices through increased labor availability, you simultaneously posit that prices and services, somehow are immune from market forces. The same forces that lead to a plumber @70/hr, in the first place. Instead of moaning about plumbing prices, learn to do it yourself, the majority of it is fairly easy. And then when the market for plumbing services shrink, plumbers lower prices or go under. Eventually, we get to a point where people are willing to pay a plumber instead of their own time. Plumbing prices go back up. These things are cyclical for a reason. Large shocks get handled over time, but it takes time. If there were more people willing and able to provide plumbing services, and the demand for those services did not change, the price for those services would go down. I am not going to learn how to be a plumber, because my time is more valuable in my profession or spent at home, than it would be learning how to be a plumber. I would rather pay as little for plumbing, or any services, really, as I can (quality of service being the same). Most people want to pay as little as they can for their goods and services, otherwise all of our shit wouldn't be made in China or made by robots. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:44:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you propose to do with those who "don't wish to do so"? and their families? when they start to affect your life in other ways? What do you mean? If people initiate force against you, shoot them in the face. Otherwords, leave them be. Not that complicated. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:44:42 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I "pretend" to love the free market? What does that mean? In a free market, prices are determined by supply and demand. More people able to provide labor = cheaper labor. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you are an unskilled employee, you would probably be well-served by acquiring more valuable skills. If you don't wish to do so, I don't really give a shit, but don't cry to Uncle Sugar to keep others, that are willing to do your job for less, away. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:47:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
that "uncle sugar" you're referring to is the United States government, who by the constitution regulate immigration. We're a nation of laws, and it's the responsibility of "uncle sugar" to assure they're enforced. If you're an American citizen you are bound by this pact. So how many of these illegals do you profit from? Right I am "bound by this pact" to the same extent that a mugging victim is bound by the dictates of the mugger. There is no moral case to be made that I am somehow obligated to the dictates of the constitution. I am not sure how many of these illegals I profit from? I suppose none of them? What do you mean? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:48:50 PM EDT
[#27]
no, they need some sort of vetting process.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:50:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you mean? If people initiate force against you, shoot them in the face. Otherwords, leave them be. Not that complicated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What do you propose to do with those who "don't wish to do so"? and their families? when they start to affect your life in other ways? What do you mean? If people initiate force against you, shoot them in the face. Otherwords, leave them be. Not that complicated. When they begin to starve...step over them to get to your favorite restaurant? When they passively protest your privilege...dare them to "cross the line"? When they live in the empty houses in your neighborhood....tell the HOA? When they take unsafe vehicles into your traffic...sue them for your medical bills? When they do substandard work....give them a bad review on yelp? When they don't finish your contracted work...indenture their families? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:53:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
Let's suppose that becoming a legal citizen was as easy as a $5 filing fee and a passport photo, and the entire process took 2 weeks from start to finish. We will also suppose that there is no welfare in this situation. I hear how great legal immigrants are, but would people still hold this sentiment if virtually anybody could immigrate here legally quickly and easily? Dear ShrariaBlue/CTR shill: Since we're in "la la land" with your hypothetical (i.e., no welfare state), part of me wants to simply say fuck you and your mind games. But in the spirit of kindness and light, I would simply point to the naturalization requirements of other countries and say that we should be somewhere in the bell curve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization ETA: Be sure to check out that table and how long you have to behave and be productive as a permanent resident all over the world. Look how many require fluency in the language; look how many require a sworn allegiance to the constitution of the nation. Two weeks, what a fucking joke. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 6:58:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not? Why can't we have "open borders" again, assuming that other people don't have to pay to subsidize these people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The left doesn't want productive, responsible people immigrating. In any case, you can't simply tell the whole world they can come here. The rate needs to be planned for a number of reasons. Why not? Why can't we have "open borders" again, assuming that other people don't have to pay to subsidize these people. You realize most other countries require you to have some kind job lined up before allowing immigrants right? Why shouldn't we apply that rule here? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:00:48 PM EDT
[#31]
It already is easy to become legal.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:02:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I "pretend" to love the free market? What does that mean? In a free market, prices are determined by supply and demand. More people able to provide labor = cheaper labor. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you are an unskilled employee, you would probably be well-served by acquiring more valuable skills. If you don't wish to do so, I don't really give a shit, but don't cry to Uncle Sugar to keep others, that are willing to do your job for less, away. I see your viewpoint. You are like the tech firms who bring in H1B folks from India to pay wages far below market value to drive Americans out of work. You want all your labor/services on the cheap but still keep your rent high. Did you vote for Hillary? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:06:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
#notanargument Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You're either trolling or you are stupid. #notanargument Not an argument, just a general observation from people who have BTDT. Cheap labor is not a good thing. Production is fast, and everyone loves that. Until a definitive piece of work fails like a building slab or a roof due to lacking quality standards of the work performed which ends up costing people their lives. And, to answer your next reply, because I know it's coming, you rarely hear about these catastrophic failures because they are caught before damage could be done. This is why shitty contractors are always broke because they end up doing everything twice because of the cheap labor they hire to do work. Please tell us your experiences with cheap labor and how it's good. I'll wait. 
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:13:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When they get sick...let them die? I might choose to help out, if not I will send them to your house. I am sure you wouldn't turn them away, right? When they begin to starve...step over them to get to your favorite restaurant? Same as above. I am sure you will help them so I don't have to, right? When they passively protest your privilege...dare them to "cross the line"? I live way the fuck in the middle of nowhere, no village for miles. When they live in the empty houses in your neighborhood....tell the HOA? It's not my business who lives in houses I don't own. When they take unsafe vehicles into your traffic...sue them for your medical bills? I will assess the risks associated with driving and make a decision, as I already do. When they do substandard work....give them a bad review on yelp? I will refrain from doing further business with them, and I will encourage others to do the same. I will consider seeking the services of those with established reputations. When they don't finish your contracted work...indenture their families? See above Anything else? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:15:48 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dear ShrariaBlue/CTR shill: Since we're in "la la land" with your hypothetical (i.e., no welfare state), part of me wants to simply say fuck you and your mind games. But in the spirit of kindness and light, I would simply point to the naturalization requirements of other countries and say that we should be somewhere in the bell curve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization ETA: Be sure to check out that table and how long you have to behave and be productive as a permanent resident all over the world. Look how many require fluency in the language; look how many require a sworn allegiance to the constitution of the nation. Two weeks, what a fucking joke. CTR Shill is to you as Racist is to liberals. Basically, "I don't have an argument, so I will attempt to discredit this person by calling them X" I don't really care which references you provide in respects to immigrating to other countries. The topic of discussion is immigrating to America. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:18:32 PM EDT
[#36]
LOL I just realized who the OP of this thread is.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:19:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I see your viewpoint. You are like the tech firms who bring in H1B folks from India to pay wages far below market value to drive Americans out of work. I am like the tech firms? Okay, not sure how to respond to that.... Ummmm I'm rubber and you're glue? Not sure I can come up with an equally simplistic non-argument. You want all your labor/services on the cheap but still keep your rent high. No shit, Sherlock. People generally try to get as much as they can for their labor while paying as little as they can for others. Do you pay more than you have to for your stuff? Did you vote for Hillary? "I don't have argument, so I better accuse him of being a Hillary supporter" --You. I am as small government as there is, actually I don't want a government all. You are clearly far closer on the ideological spectrum to Clinton than I am. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:20:21 PM EDT
[#38]
I do support legal immigration already
I also believe if an immigrant gets a graduate degree in engineering or a hard science while here on a student visa a green card should be stapled to the diploma. 
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:21:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL I just realized who the OP of this thread is. Wow, you can read. We are all very impressed. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:22:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted:
Let's suppose that becoming a legal citizen was as easy as a $5 filing fee and a passport photo, and the entire process took 2 weeks from start to finish. We will also suppose that there is no welfare in this situation. I hear how great legal immigrants are, but would people still hold this sentiment if virtually anybody could immigrate here legally quickly and easily? You're laboring under the assumption that the difficulty is what limits the numbers. You also think that 'immigrant' equals 'citizen' Quotas limit the numbers and many legal immigrants are not citizens. Clarify your assumptions and understand what the process is and then come back with a reasonable question. Becoming a citizen *should * be hard. It should require that you are really committed to not just moving here, but becoming an American. Legal immigration probably should be easier but not just like coming to see tourist sites for a couple of weeks. And immigration quotas are absolutely needed, for both prospective citizens and immigrants who don't want to become citizens. If you think this is harsh, look at any of the various countries you might want to migrate to and check out their policies on immigrants. You will be hard pressed to find any that are as open as the US is. I doubt you'll find any. And whether it's hard or not, illegal entry must be controlled. Sure, people are suffering in other places. But that doesn't mean we are obligated either morally or legally to just let them come here because it's better than where they are. We have our own national interest to look out for and sometimes that means we need to deny others things they think we should provide them. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:23:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
CTR Shill is to you as Racist is to liberals. Basically, "I don't have an argument, so I will attempt to discredit this person by calling them X" I don't really care which references you provide in respects to immigrating to other countries. The topic of discussion is immigrating to America. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Dear ShrariaBlue/CTR shill: Since we're in "la la land" with your hypothetical (i.e., no welfare state), part of me wants to simply say fuck you and your mind games. But in the spirit of kindness and light, I would simply point to the naturalization requirements of other countries and say that we should be somewhere in the bell curve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization ETA: Be sure to check out that table and how long you have to behave and be productive as a permanent resident all over the world. Look how many require fluency in the language; look how many require a sworn allegiance to the constitution of the nation. Two weeks, what a fucking joke. CTR Shill is to you as Racist is to liberals. Basically, "I don't have an argument, so I will attempt to discredit this person by calling them X" I don't really care which references you provide in respects to immigrating to other countries. The topic of discussion is immigrating to America. Says the provocateur as he fails completely to address the substantive point I made. LOL Find me one country anywhere on the PLANET that does what you propose in your opening post. Its total bullshit tripe. You're not looking for a discussion you're here to sew dissension. Tell you what, champ. We haven't had open borders since the Quota Act and National Origin Act. But you knew that. Unrestricted immigration DOES NOT EXIST anywhere in the world. Read the naturalization article I posted. There are plenty of countries I'd be comfortable to have us emulate. Your example in the opening post is so nonsensical (including the "pretend there's no welfare) that you simply expose your trollish objectives. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:28:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Says the provocateur as he fails completely to address the substantive point I made. LOL Find me one country anywhere on the PLANET that does what you propose in your opening post. Its total bullshit tripe. You're not looking for a discussion you're here to sew dissension. Tell you what, champ. We haven't had open borders since the Quota Act and National Origin Act. But you knew that. Unrestricted immigration DOES NOT EXIST anywhere in the world. Read the naturalization article I posted. There are plenty of countries I'd be comfortable to have us emulate. Your example in the opening post is so nonsensical (including the "pretend there's no welfare) that you simply expose your trollish objectives. What point did you make? That it's difficult to immigrate to other countries? So what? That's irrelevant. I gave the hypothetical as to whether or not people would support legal immigration if it was easy sans welfare. If you can't operate within the terms of the hypothetical then your input is not wanted and would be better valued elsewhere. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:31:36 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What point did you make? That it's difficult to immigrate to other countries? So what? That's irrelevant. I gave the hypothetical as to whether or not people would support legal immigration if it was easy sans welfare. If you can't operate within the terms of the hypothetical then your input is not wanted and would be better valued elsewhere. Totally not irrelevant. You're making the extraordinary claim: that we should do something no other nation on the planet does. No one has any obligation to refute your extraordinary claim. You're making the claim, support it. Of course that's not why you're here. You're here to stir shit. Tell David Brock he's STILL a total window-licker and even his Democratic funding partners think he's weird as fuck. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:33:12 PM EDT
[#44]
I'm all for legal and vetted immigration. Though I'm in agreement with Putin.......Immigrates need America , America doesn't need immigration.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:44:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Right I am "bound by this pact" to the same extent that a mugging victim is bound by the dictates of the mugger. There is no moral case to be made that I am somehow obligated to the dictates of the constitution. I am not sure how many of these illegals I profit from? I suppose none of them? What do you mean? |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:45:34 PM EDT
[#46]
No.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:51:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Ultimately, immigration has to be controlled to prevent a collapse of the infrastructure people wish to immigrate to and not just recreate the same problems they were trying from. That said, can not blame the immigrants from turning the hoast country to shit-blame their politians.
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Posted: 2/20/2017 7:57:00 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The mugging victim has a legal right to fight back; the mugger has no right to mug. The mugger has the same right to mug that the IRS has to tax. That is, no right at all. Either you profit from illegal aliens (not enough to buy a membership) I profit from illegal aliens to the same extent that you profit from depraved Asian kids (they make a lot of our shit). I don't see a value in a membership, so I don't buy one. or you are a globalist who believes in a world without borders overseen by an international government. No, not even close. False dichotomy. I don't want an international government, actually any government, have you not grasped that by now? Why else would someone advocate for the invasion of their country? It's not "my country" in the sense that I, or anybody else owns it. I simply exist on this particular chunk of land. People that are not initiating force against me are not really a concern of mine. If you wish to concern yourself with their affairs, that is on you.This applies to people born here, or people born elsewhere. And yeah, you are obligated to the "dictates" of the constitution. Oh, because you said so? Or because Thomas Jefferson said so? Either way, no. Again, I am "obligated" to obey laws in the sense that if I don't I might get shot in the face, but any dictate that I follow those laws is completely arbitrary. Somebody in Ethiopia could draft a document that says everybody in the U.S. has to do X, and it has the same amount of authority as the constitution and the laws subject thereto, it just isn't enforced at gunpoint. |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 8:04:25 PM EDT
[#49]
I will always be against people breaking our laws to come here illegally.
Now get out. Troll |
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Posted: 2/20/2017 8:04:52 PM EDT
[#50]
There needs to be a a moratorium on immigration for about 10-20 years. We have way to many immigrants. As it is.
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