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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:39:32 PM EDT
[#1]
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. I've always believed that "hell" is not fire and brimstone as much as being denied God's presence. Eternal emptiness. Perhaps that's naïve, or even stupid, but it's been my belief since I was old enough to consider such things. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:39:43 PM EDT
[#2]
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Yes...let's pray together..." Mekka Lekka Hi-Mekka Hiney Ho" I feel better already..PRAISE JAMBI! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Foxhound308 You answered exactly how I thought you would. I guess once we both are in the ground, we shall see who is correct. Good debate though and glad you didn't get all ruffled by it!!!  I'd rather you not take a chance and just let God save you now while you still have breathe in your lungs. 6 feet under is waay too late to change your mind. Serious - it's a 10 second prayer. God will use any opportunity He can to save you. Call on Him, He responds to 'Jesus' Yes...let's pray together..." Mekka Lekka Hi-Mekka Hiney Ho" I feel better already..PRAISE JAMBI! I was talking to DD977GM2, that man is going be saved and will be spending eternity in Heaven. You, however, have already made your choice, unfortunately. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:40:14 PM EDT
[#3]
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. God does not want any human to go there, but we send ourselves their out of our own free will. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:40:26 PM EDT
[#4]
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. Those concepts are a very recent invention. Hell is the absence of God. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:41:14 PM EDT
[#5]
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I've always believed that "hell" is not fire and brimstone as much as being denied God's presence. Eternal emptiness. Perhaps that's naïve, or even stupid, but it's been my belief since I was old enough to consider such things. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. I've always believed that "hell" is not fire and brimstone as much as being denied God's presence. Eternal emptiness. Perhaps that's naïve, or even stupid, but it's been my belief since I was old enough to consider such things. Your closer than you think. Eternal separation from God is Hell. The lack of God's presence is something that no human should experience. But we have people, even some on this forum, who laugh all the way there. Terrifying and severe. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:41:50 PM EDT
[#6]
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My SO or my mom or brother. Yep. Their lives are more important to me then mine. ETA: I do tend to agree with the posters saying that everyone not "saved" is going to hell, so I guess take my answer with a grain of salt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... My SO or my mom or brother. Yep. Their lives are more important to me then mine. ETA: I do tend to agree with the posters saying that everyone not "saved" is going to hell, so I guess take my answer with a grain of salt. Here's the thing, though...We're not talking about merely giving up your life to save someone you love. We're talking about burning. Burning in the Pit, in the Lake of Fire...for eternity. Never ending agony. Let me put it in perspective for you: Jesus spent three days on the cross, in order to save everybody™. Three days nailed to some timber. You would burn forever to save one? |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:44:30 PM EDT
[#7]
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I'd rather you not take a chance and just let God save you now while you still have breathe in your lungs. 6 feet under is waay too late to change your mind. Serious - it's a 10 second prayer. God will use any opportunity He can to save you. Call on Him, He responds to 'Jesus' Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Foxhound308 You answered exactly how I thought you would. I guess once we both are in the ground, we shall see who is correct. Good debate though and glad you didn't get all ruffled by it!!! I'd rather you not take a chance and just let God save you now while you still have breathe in your lungs. 6 feet under is waay too late to change your mind. Serious - it's a 10 second prayer. God will use any opportunity He can to save you. Call on Him, He responds to 'Jesus' Since I have changed my mind on religion etc (almost 20 years) I have had many life and death experiences not only concerning me but also others at deaths door and even after then were gone. Not once have I said ,"Oh God please help me." Or anything to that effect. I honestly don't think there is anything anyone or any experience I can have that will change my mind. I am making a conscious decision based on my own research, personal morals and ethics and I alone will face the consequences if I am wrong (I don't believe I am). If that bothers you, why does it? Also just because I don't believe in god or the bible or Jesus etc, doesn't mean I can live my life in a shitty way. I still feel I must be good towards my fellow man. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:45:42 PM EDT
[#8]
By Shor's bones and the Nine Divines, I would never forfeit the pleasures of Sovngarde.
I will dine among heroes. Edit: I see there are many here who do not believe it is right to worship Talos. Perhaps because you think he was a man? He was a man, but he ascended to be a God. Do not let your souls be dragged into the depths of Oblivion where Mehrunes Dagon with all his Daedra will torture you in blood and fire for the rest of eternity! Come to a shrine and offer a sacrifice today, before it's too late. You too can dine among heroes. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:48:39 PM EDT
[#9]
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Since I have changed my mind on religion etc (almost 20 years) I have had many life and death experiences not only concerning me but also others at deaths door and even after then were gone. Not once have I said ,"Oh God please help me." Or anything to that effect. I honestly don't think there is anything anyone or any experience I can have that will change my mind. I am making a conscious decision based on my own research, personal morals and ethics and I alone will face the consequences if I am wrong (I don't believe I am). If that bothers you, why does it? Also just because I don't believe in god or the bible or Jesus etc, doesn't mean I can live my life in a shitty way. I still feel I must be good towards my fellow man. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Foxhound308 You answered exactly how I thought you would. I guess once we both are in the ground, we shall see who is correct. Good debate though and glad you didn't get all ruffled by it!!! I'd rather you not take a chance and just let God save you now while you still have breathe in your lungs. 6 feet under is waay too late to change your mind. Serious - it's a 10 second prayer. God will use any opportunity He can to save you. Call on Him, He responds to 'Jesus' Since I have changed my mind on religion etc (almost 20 years) I have had many life and death experiences not only concerning me but also others at deaths door and even after then were gone. Not once have I said ,"Oh God please help me." Or anything to that effect. I honestly don't think there is anything anyone or any experience I can have that will change my mind. I am making a conscious decision based on my own research, personal morals and ethics and I alone will face the consequences if I am wrong (I don't believe I am). If that bothers you, why does it? Also just because I don't believe in god or the bible or Jesus etc, doesn't mean I can live my life in a shitty way. I still feel I must be good towards my fellow man. That's well said and I don't think anyone should argue with you about it. My experiences are different in that I've drawn strength and comfort from prayer. It's not everyone's way though and I respect that. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:51:08 PM EDT
[#10]
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....snip... 2.) You will have all of eternity to learn, without your sin nature. DD977GM2, will you please ask God to save you? He will if you ask and mean it. I sincerely look forward to great debate in Heaven, but I do not believe we have any time left on this side of eternity. Seriously, what do you have to lose? It's a 10 second prayer. I will debate you all night if you want, I am a firm believer in Christ and I have alot of ammo to back it up. But debate won't get anywhere. Cmon man Quote HistoryQuoted:
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....snip..... 2. (Kinda follows #1 question) No matter how you live your life, do you think anywhere from say 49 years to 94(give or take) years of age when a person dies, have learned all of life's lessons to truly be ready for Heaven? ....snip... 2.) You will have all of eternity to learn, without your sin nature. DD977GM2, will you please ask God to save you? He will if you ask and mean it. I sincerely look forward to great debate in Heaven, but I do not believe we have any time left on this side of eternity. Seriously, what do you have to lose? It's a 10 second prayer. I will debate you all night if you want, I am a firm believer in Christ and I have alot of ammo to back it up. But debate won't get anywhere. Cmon man Where has our "sin nature" gone? |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:51:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Foxhound308
Your arguement of better to have it and not need then need it and not have it reminds me of our boarding team bulletproof vests and tac-vests we had. All that gear weighed around 45-50 extra pounds. The BP vest only stopped up to 45ACP and the people we were boarding, based on prior boardings and intel, had rifles. So for myself, I stopped wearing my BP vest because our life jackets on the RHIB boat ride over could toss us into the drink and it may or may of inflate and if it didn't I did t feel like sinking like a rock. I was willing to accept the consequences of not having the vest. Seems very simular as you as the Safety Officer telling me I should wear it regardless. |
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Posted: 4/13/2014 11:52:50 PM EDT
[#12]
I would not.
First, this argument assumes I was wrong about there being no god. Most Christians believe I'll go to hell for this, therefore I will not be available to take another's place. Second, upon learning that God exists, who am I to overrule an omnipotent being? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:03:07 AM EDT
[#13]
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Hell is most certainly real, and it is a far worst place than you can possibly imagine PROVE IT Take your time too...but, right now I gotta go to bed since we have someone coming out in a few hours to look at hail damage to our roof.....maybe it'll be God looking it  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxKRoONrfY Irrefutable evidence that is scientifically proven right there. I guess it's settled. I believe there could be some sort of power or deity that is responsible for the creation of the universe, but it certainly isn't Jesus or any other traditional religious figure. I'm sorry, but I don't believe God would give humans free will and then expect everyone to believe in his presence without any concrete evidence as to his existence. Nor do I believe someone should burn in hell for eternity for not believing in his existence, with little to no evidence that he exists. Not to mention that the book that claims his existence also explains the creation of man, and our procreation, as a giant incestual, polygamous fuck-fest. Also, Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Get bent, Jesus. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:05:31 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah well . . . doesn't that mean pretty much a lot of people who never heard the word of Christ or live in another country or maybe practice another religion? That's a lot of people going to hell it seems. Or already there because they maybe grew up and died without hearing about Christ? Romans ch 1 link I just (RE)read that stuff (gibberish). And once again it didn't do anything to answer my question. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:08:08 AM EDT
[#15]
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Hell....  Next thing you'll tell me you can actually visit Santa's workshop at the North Pole...Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... Hell.... Next thing you'll tell me you can actually visit Santa's workshop at the North Pole...
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:09:54 AM EDT
[#16]
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It exists, I've been there. I live just down the road from there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... Hell.... Next thing you'll tell me you can actually visit Santa's workshop at the North Pole...It exists, I've been there. I live just down the road from there. Hell, or Santa's Workshop? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:11:07 AM EDT
[#17]
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Hell is most certainly real, and it is a far worst place than you can possibly imagine PROVE IT Take your time too...but, right now I gotta go to bed since we have someone coming out in a few hours to look at hail damage to our roof.....maybe it'll be God looking it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxKRoONrfY That guy sonds like he's eat up with the gay. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:12:02 AM EDT
[#18]
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I think you should do some research on how much the Bible has changed over the centuries. I think you would be very surprised to find that today's Bible is almost identical to the early canonical books. The Dead Sea scrolls proves this 100% Even the secular historical experts would agree that if you compare the original Hebrew and Greek to today's Bible, it is identical, language translations withstanding. You are running out of legs to stand on with these 'pseudo-facts' that bring a false sense of eternal security/comfort. Your time is near. http://www.coolshitiget.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/mind-blown-2.gif Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So because a priest says that you have to believe in his god and say a fucking prayer you will go to heaven regardless of how you lived your life? Sound like utter BS to me. What about the amazonians for centuries who didn't believe or even know the Christian god, did they not go to heaven? Nonsense Who cares what a priest said. Jesus Himself actually said this, and He was God. good luck with that. So the Bible being written and translated and rewritten and retranslated CENTURIES after a man named Jesus died, you take it as if it truly was said? Did it never occur to you that maybe the translator or person rewriting the particular version had a vested interest in making it read the way he wanted it to, to suit his needs or his kings or whoever was in powers need? Good luck with that!! I think you should do some research on how much the Bible has changed over the centuries. I think you would be very surprised to find that today's Bible is almost identical to the early canonical books. The Dead Sea scrolls proves this 100% Even the secular historical experts would agree that if you compare the original Hebrew and Greek to today's Bible, it is identical, language translations withstanding. You are running out of legs to stand on with these 'pseudo-facts' that bring a false sense of eternal security/comfort. Your time is near. http://www.coolshitiget.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/mind-blown-2.gif 
Pretentious much? 
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:14:30 AM EDT
[#19]
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... There is no hell. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:15:57 AM EDT
[#20]
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There is no hell. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... There is no hell. True, but it does not answer his question. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:18:50 AM EDT
[#21]
Jesus already set up a pretty good deal for them that I really can't beat.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:20:20 AM EDT
[#22]
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Hell, or Santa's Workshop? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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...in place of somebody you love and care about? For clarification: This person is going to Hell because they are not 'saved' ie; they never said "the prayer" to accept Jesus into their lives before they passed... Hell.... Next thing you'll tell me you can actually visit Santa's workshop at the North Pole...It exists, I've been there. I live just down the road from there. Hell, or Santa's Workshop? I dunno about no SANTA'S WORKSHOP; but there sure was a SANTA's VILLAGE up in the San Bernandino Mountains quite a few years ago. http://www.santasvillage.net/santas.village.history.html 
"Food is available at the Good Witch's Bakery and the Pixie Pantry!!!" |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:21:35 AM EDT
[#23]
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God does not want any human to go there, but we send ourselves their out of our own free will. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. God does not want any human to go there, but we send ourselves their out of our own free will. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. God knows the threads of your life. He knows the threads of everyone's lives. From the second He made you, He knew whether you were bound for Hell or not. If there truly is a Hell, then God made people so that they could burn for eternity. He made them--sinners who will burn for eternity--on purpose. The path of your life is known by God. There is no "choice". There is no "free will". There is only your personal blindness to your own future, a future that is already known to Him. You have zero choice in the matter. If you doubt His existence, then He made you that way. He created you to doubt His existence, and to therefore burn for eternity. Free will is lack of prescience. All men would make good choices, had they the abillity to see the future. It is our myopia that provides the illusion of "choice", where none exists...for how can their be a "choice" when travelling, if the destination is a foregone conclusion? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:24:09 AM EDT
[#24]
The tard has come out more in this thread than the missing malaysian plane thread. The love between God and you and the love between you and your loved one is different. I would not go to hell for my loved one, and I wouldn't be able to trade anyway. Hell is defined as the absence of God, so my loved one will not be able to go in my stead. And people who have not heard or had the opportunity to hear God's word will be judged on their sins. Abortions and stillborn babies have not committed any sins. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:26:29 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote History"I became a SPORTS PARACHUTIST and that really got me. I mean I became OBSESSED with sky diving." Seems to me the only thing this guy REALLY found out was GRAVITY and the TERMINAL effects of free fall. (9.8 meters / second squared) minus Wind Drag is a HELLUVA thing! 
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:27:12 AM EDT
[#26]
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The tard has come out more in this thread than the missing malaysian plane thread. The love between God and you and the love between you and your loved one is different. I would not go to hell for my loved one, and I wouldn't be able to trade anyway. Hell is defined as the absence of God, so my loved one will not be able to go in my stead. And people who have not heard or had the opportunity to hear God's word will be judged on their sins. Abortions and stillborn babies have not committed any sins. Committed? No. Inherited? Yes. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:27:58 AM EDT
[#27]
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Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. God knows the threads of your life. He knows the threads of everyone's lives. From the second He made you, He knew whether you were bound for Hell or not. If there truly is a Hell, then God made people so that they could burn for eternity. He made them--sinners who will burn for eternity--on purpose. The path of your life is known by God. There is no "choice". There is no "free will". There is only your personal blindness to your own future, a future that is already known to Him. You have zero choice in the matter. If you doubt His existence, then He made you that way. He created you to doubt His existence, and to therefore burn for eternity. Free will is lack of prescience. All men would make good choices, had they the abillity to see the future. It is our myopia that provides the illusion of "choice", where none exists...for how can their be a "choice" when travelling, if the destination is a foregone conclusion? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. God does not want any human to go there, but we send ourselves their out of our own free will. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. God knows the threads of your life. He knows the threads of everyone's lives. From the second He made you, He knew whether you were bound for Hell or not. If there truly is a Hell, then God made people so that they could burn for eternity. He made them--sinners who will burn for eternity--on purpose. The path of your life is known by God. There is no "choice". There is no "free will". There is only your personal blindness to your own future, a future that is already known to Him. You have zero choice in the matter. If you doubt His existence, then He made you that way. He created you to doubt His existence, and to therefore burn for eternity. Free will is lack of prescience. All men would make good choices, had they the abillity to see the future. It is our myopia that provides the illusion of "choice", where none exists...for how can their be a "choice" when travelling, if the destination is a foregone conclusion? Someone gets it. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:28:42 AM EDT
[#28]
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Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. God knows the threads of your life. He knows the threads of everyone's lives. From the second He made you, He knew whether you were bound for Hell or not. If there truly is a Hell, then God made people so that they could burn for eternity. He made them--sinners who will burn for eternity--on purpose. The path of your life is known by God. There is no "choice". There is no "free will". There is only your personal blindness to your own future, a future that is already known to Him. You have zero choice in the matter. If you doubt His existence, then He made you that way. He created you to doubt His existence, and to therefore burn for eternity. Free will is lack of prescience. All men would make good choices, had they the abillity to see the future. It is our myopia that provides the illusion of "choice", where none exists...for how can their be a "choice" when travelling, if the destination is a foregone conclusion? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. God does not want any human to go there, but we send ourselves their out of our own free will. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. God knows the threads of your life. He knows the threads of everyone's lives. From the second He made you, He knew whether you were bound for Hell or not. If there truly is a Hell, then God made people so that they could burn for eternity. He made them--sinners who will burn for eternity--on purpose. The path of your life is known by God. There is no "choice". There is no "free will". There is only your personal blindness to your own future, a future that is already known to Him. You have zero choice in the matter. If you doubt His existence, then He made you that way. He created you to doubt His existence, and to therefore burn for eternity. Free will is lack of prescience. All men would make good choices, had they the abillity to see the future. It is our myopia that provides the illusion of "choice", where none exists...for how can their be a "choice" when travelling, if the destination is a foregone conclusion? I disagree with this. Freewill, as granted to us by God, is a the ability to make the choices that lead to living a good life, hopefully in the light of God's grace, or not. There are paths to be chosen and we are granted the ability to choose. It's the most simple concept, yet seems to lead to much confusion and debate. Don't take anything I say here seriously. I'm no scholar or expert on any of it. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:30:31 AM EDT
[#29]
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Someone gets it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. God does not want any human to go there, but we send ourselves their out of our own free will. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. God knows the threads of your life. He knows the threads of everyone's lives. From the second He made you, He knew whether you were bound for Hell or not. If there truly is a Hell, then God made people so that they could burn for eternity. He made them--sinners who will burn for eternity--on purpose. The path of your life is known by God. There is no "choice". There is no "free will". There is only your personal blindness to your own future, a future that is already known to Him. You have zero choice in the matter. If you doubt His existence, then He made you that way. He created you to doubt His existence, and to therefore burn for eternity. Free will is lack of prescience. All men would make good choices, had they the abillity to see the future. It is our myopia that provides the illusion of "choice", where none exists...for how can their be a "choice" when travelling, if the destination is a foregone conclusion? Someone gets it. (Golf clap) Pretty good. Yeah. This guy had something just as similar but more theatrical. 
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:32:35 AM EDT
[#30]
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I disagree with this. Freewill, as granted to us by God, is a the ability to make the choices that lead to living a good life, hopefully in the light of God's grace, or not. There are paths to be chosen and we are granted the ability to choose. It's the most simple concept, yet seems to lead to much confusion and debate. Don't take anything I say here seriously. I'm no scholar or expert on any of it. Is god not all powerful and all knowing? Does he not have a plan? I've heard that he does on many, many occasions. If he has a plan, knows everything, and is all powerful, wouldn't he also be responsible for all the world's plight, anguish, suffering, etc.? Wouldn't he already know that those created generations down the line aren't going to be able to be convinced no matter what? He's all knowing, so the point in free will is pointless if he knows the outcome. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:39:16 AM EDT
[#31]
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I disagree with this. Freewill, as granted to us by God, is a the ability to make the choices that lead to living a good life, hopefully in the light of God's grace, or not. There are paths to be chosen and we are granted the ability to choose. It's the most simple concept, yet seems to lead to much confusion and debate. Don't take anything I say here seriously. I'm no scholar or expert on any of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ultimate pain and suffering, for eternity. Lake of fire, et al... The whole concept of Hell--as a punishment for anything--denies that any Creator that would devise such is an inhuman monster, and at the very least, undeserving of my adulation. God does not want any human to go there, but we send ourselves their out of our own free will. We have nobody to blame but ourselves. Free will. I love the whole idea of "Free Will". It really sounds good...until you think about it a liitle more, and realize that what you call "free will" is essentially myopia. I disagree with this. Freewill, as granted to us by God, is a the ability to make the choices that lead to living a good life, hopefully in the light of God's grace, or not. There are paths to be chosen and we are granted the ability to choose. It's the most simple concept, yet seems to lead to much confusion and debate. Don't take anything I say here seriously. I'm no scholar or expert on any of it. Nor am I...and I am open to being educated. Having said that: You didn't "make" any choices in your life. You just think you made choices, because you do not have God's vision, His knowledge of all that was, and all that will be. Right now, you were just reaching for another cigarette. Just to prove a point, you did not, choosing instead to not smoke right now. You think that was your choice. "See? Free will!" It was never your choice. God already knew you were going to do that. He knows everything you're going to do, that everyone is going to do. They don't know, because they are not God. They are blind to their own future. God is not. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:43:11 AM EDT
[#32]
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Is god not all powerful and all knowing? Does he not have a plan? I've heard that he does on many, many occasions. If he has a plan, knows everything, and is all powerful, wouldn't he also be responsible for all the world's plight, anguish, suffering, etc.? Wouldn't he already know that those created generations down the line aren't going to be able to be convinced no matter what? He's all knowing, so the point in free will is pointless if he knows the outcome. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I disagree with this. Freewill, as granted to us by God, is a the ability to make the choices that lead to living a good life, hopefully in the light of God's grace, or not. There are paths to be chosen and we are granted the ability to choose. It's the most simple concept, yet seems to lead to much confusion and debate. Don't take anything I say here seriously. I'm no scholar or expert on any of it. Is god not all powerful and all knowing? Does he not have a plan? I've heard that he does on many, many occasions. If he has a plan, knows everything, and is all powerful, wouldn't he also be responsible for all the world's plight, anguish, suffering, etc.? Wouldn't he already know that those created generations down the line aren't going to be able to be convinced no matter what? He's all knowing, so the point in free will is pointless if he knows the outcome. "Free will". We all have the ability to choose. I don't believe we're pre-destined to live or act or take a certain path. We all can choose to live righteously or not. We can choose to believe or not. I'm no rabid evangelical. Make your own decisions. I've made mine. And I don't have any less respect for anyone who doesn't believe as I do. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:44:10 AM EDT
[#33]
Never mind. Not trying to start anything.
If anything, I'm envious of my pious brothers for having faith. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:47:35 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You seem to know for certain that Hell does not exist? That is a pretty bold assumption. Please tell us more about the afterlife. I know a man who has walked on both sides. Hell is most certainly real, and it is a far worst place than you can possibly imagine Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You seem to know for certain that Hell does not exist? That is a pretty bold assumption. Please tell us more about the afterlife. I know a man who has walked on both sides. Hell is most certainly real, and it is a far worst place than you can possibly imagine If heaven and hell is real that leaves me a couple of thoughts about religion. God is a supreme dickface of the highest order if he would condemn a good person to hell simply for not having faith. We are talking bigger douchebag than Hitler here. I don't really believe in a man god or whatever but if it exists he can go fuck himself with a rusty piece of metal if thats how he would treat good people. Ill go down in hell and raise an army to tear down his castle with lucifer. If we are in fact created in god's image and god is good then the bible is bullshit because no good man would sent good people to burn in hell no matter what their beliefs. So what do you really believe? Do you believe hell is real and god is good or do you believe that hell is real and you will go there is you have no faith? You can't believe both. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:54:57 AM EDT
[#35]
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Never mind. Not trying to start anything. If anything, I'm envious of my pious brothers for having faith. His faith's not the issue. It's the arrogant, pretentious, and ages old tedious method of delivery of a "sermon looking for a pulpit" attitude. I've heard the same drivel at 3 AM Denny's. When I want to be preached at, I intentionally go to Church and not GD (or 3AM @ Denny's). |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 12:58:07 AM EDT
[#36]
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"Free will". We all have the ability to choose. I don't believe we're pre-destined to live or act or take a certain path. We all can choose to live righteously or not. We can choose to believe or not. I'm no rabid evangelical. Make your own decisions. I've made mine. And I don't have any less respect for anyone who doesn't believe as I do. Let me put it another way. Take the Book of Revelation, which foretells certain future events will unfold according to God's plan. Those events will go down exactly as planned, and that's despite our advance knowledge of them. For instance, if I were the antichrist or the whore of babylon or whatever, I might want to take action so as to thwart God's plans, to cause a temporary delay or use the advance knowledge to one's advantage. However, no such course of action is possible. The events and their outcomes are known and fixed. There is nothing a man or angel or demon can do to affect the outcome. Human "free" will or action, or input of any kind do not count for anything at all, cannot alter anything. The outcome is already decided. I know this, you know this, the devil knows this. All we have left is to go through the motions, like actors in a play that God has written, cast and directed till the curtain drops and we then we all back in the boxes that God chooses for us. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:10:52 AM EDT
[#37]
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Everyday I wake up and go to work for my wife and kids. Place is close enough. I'm starting to believe that hell is a licensed franchise and they have locations all over the world. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:25:54 AM EDT
[#38]
As a jew you can fuck off with your jesus shit. God damn I'm so tired of everyone going jesus that jesus this. It piss's me off when someone tells me I'm going to hell if I don't believe in jesus. Well as a jew I don't and you telling me I'm going to this place I don't believe in because jews are gods chosen people makes it even funnier.
Not everyone can be driven into your religion through fear mongering so please do me a favor take the jesus nonsense out and try not to frame the conversation in a one sided direction. Maybe then I'd be willing to debate and talk on merits instead of insulting you. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:33:27 AM EDT
[#39]
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As a jew you can fuck off with your jesus shit. God damn I'm so tired of everyone going jesus that jesus this. It piss's me off when someone tells me I'm going to hell if I don't believe in jesus. Well as a jew I don't and you telling me I'm going to this place I don't believe in because jews are gods chosen people makes it even funnier. Not everyone can be driven into your religion through fear mongering so please do me a favor take the jesus nonsense out and try not to frame the conversation in a one sided direction. Maybe then I'd be willing to debate and talk on merits instead of insulting you. Yeah, that kind of response is totally COC-approved. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:33:39 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is their last opportunity, unfortunately - they just don't realize this yet. If they only knew of what they spoke of, they would fall to their knees and cry out to God - but they refuse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Should have known the militant atheists would turn this thread into shit. This is their last opportunity, unfortunately - they just don't realize this yet. If they only knew of what they spoke of, they would fall to their knees and cry out to God - but they refuse. I usually stay far far away from these threads, but are you saying the "Rapture" is coming soon? care to enlighten us with your obvious behind the scenes knowledge? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:37:11 AM EDT
[#41]
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Since I have changed my mind on religion etc (almost 20 years) I have had many life and death experiences not only concerning me but also others at deaths door and even after then were gone. Not once have I said ,"Oh God please help me." Or anything to that effect. I honestly don't think there is anything anyone or any experience I can have that will change my mind. I am making a conscious decision based on my own research, personal morals and ethics and I alone will face the consequences if I am wrong (I don't believe I am). If that bothers you, why does it? Also just because I don't believe in god or the bible or Jesus etc, doesn't mean I can live my life in a shitty way. I still feel I must be good towards my fellow man. you are obviously a man with convictions, and this post sums up in words about as well as one can my thoughts on the matter. at least without causing too much butthurt on any side |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:38:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As a jew you can fuck off with your jesus shit. God damn I'm so tired of everyone going jesus that jesus this. It piss's me off when someone tells me I'm going to hell if I don't believe in jesus. Well as a jew I don't and you telling me I'm going to this place I don't believe in because jews are gods chosen people makes it even funnier. Not everyone can be driven into your religion through fear mongering so please do me a favor take the jesus nonsense out and try not to frame the conversation in a one sided direction. Maybe then I'd be willing to debate and talk on merits instead of insulting you. A Jew in Pakistan? 
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:38:33 AM EDT
[#43]
If it existed?
No. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:39:44 AM EDT
[#44]
I think watching my son struggle with his faith has been the single most painful thing I have ever suffered in my life and I have been through some serious suffering. Him having Touretts is a close second.
Would I give my life in heaven he would get to know God who loves perfectly and he would be completely healed in His Holy presence? Yes. I would trade my place in heaven to know he could have that. I don't think God allows that because he want's us all to chose him freely. I also count on His infinite Mercy and that ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE THROUGH HIM. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 3:54:35 AM EDT
[#45]
Jesus did it for everyone but only had to do it for 3 days. Im nowhere near as good as Jesus so NO.
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:06:31 AM EDT
[#46]
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Or died before Jesus was around. Where are Adam and Eve? Man this is hard! Hebrews 11 is a very thorough treatment of exactly this. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:07:53 AM EDT
[#47]
NO !!!!!!
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:11:35 AM EDT
[#48]
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Here's the thing, though...We're not talking about merely giving up your life to save someone you love. We're talking about burning. Burning in the Pit, in the Lake of Fire...for eternity. Never ending agony. Let me put it in perspective for you: Jesus spent three days on the cross, in order to save everybody™. Three days nailed to some timber. You would burn forever to save one? About five or six hours, not three days. He was nailed to the cross Friday morning at around 9:00-10:00, then died that afternoon at about 3:00. The Romans killed the other two so that they could all be taken down before the sabbath started so as not to offend the local population, but Jesus had already died. ETA: Times given are derived from counting hours from dawn, not midnight. |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:15:28 AM EDT
[#49]
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I'd rather you not take a chance and just let God save you now while you still have breathe in your lungs. 6 feet under is waay too late to change your mind. Serious - it's a 10 second prayer. God will use any opportunity He can to save you. Call on Him, He responds to 'Jesus' Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Foxhound308 You answered exactly how I thought you would. I guess once we both are in the ground, we shall see who is correct. Good debate though and glad you didn't get all ruffled by it!!! I'd rather you not take a chance and just let God save you now while you still have breathe in your lungs. 6 feet under is waay too late to change your mind. Serious - it's a 10 second prayer. God will use any opportunity He can to save you. Call on Him, He responds to 'Jesus' I'm curious, what is the prayer? |
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Posted: 4/14/2014 4:18:11 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Would you go to hell...in place of somebody you love and care about? Nope. I don't do windows either. ETA: No Hank Cochran fans? |
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