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Posted: 10/9/2014 10:55:01 AM EDT
[#1]
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I have Faith, and I believe. Not a hard concept. God is real. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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*sigh* So many mis-guided people, so many trolls. I almost pity those that think God doesn't exist. I say almost because we all have a choice to make, and the majority have chosen to condemn themselves. Yea, I know. I can't really prove He exists, but none of you can't prove He doesn't. You can't help those that don't want it. You've just explained why it would be nigh impossible to convince you that Vishnu exists, and that you've had it all wrong. It's nothing to pity. It just is what it is. I have Faith, and I believe. Not a hard concept. God is real. I know, and I don't disagree with you. But that's what people who believe in Vishnu say, too. I ain't arguing with ya, I'm just letting you know they pity you too. And I'll bet this doesn't bother you that much, for the same reason atheists aren't bothered that much. Make sense? |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 10:55:18 AM EDT
[#2]
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Sure. Why not . But to tell you the truth, I've never known a truly " good " christian. Biggest bible carrying, bible quoting , good for the community , upstanding citizen I 've ever known framed a friend of his for attempted murder. That he was responsible for. Happened in south GA in the 70's. The good christians family made a deal with the friend to do the time because the upstanding citizen was just to important to go to prison. Plus he had a college degree and all that. And they were a " good christian family " So much for good christians. Oh well. gd Quote HistoryQuoted:
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For the sake of this thread, let's all assume that God exists and The Bible is true. If an atheist leads a good and moral life, doing all the things that a good Christian does(other than accepting Christ), will they still go to Hell? Suppose someone just can't bring themselves to believe due to logic or ignorance. When they stand before God and say, "Sorry, I just didn't buy what The Bible was selling." Will God say, "Tough shit."? Sure. Why not . But to tell you the truth, I've never known a truly " good " christian. Biggest bible carrying, bible quoting , good for the community , upstanding citizen I 've ever known framed a friend of his for attempted murder. That he was responsible for. Happened in south GA in the 70's. The good christians family made a deal with the friend to do the time because the upstanding citizen was just to important to go to prison. Plus he had a college degree and all that. And they were a " good christian family " So much for good christians. Oh well. gd Ah yes, that old argument. Just because someone talks the talk, does not mean they walk the walk. In other words, people claim to be stuff all of the time, doesn't mean it's true. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 10:56:02 AM EDT
[#3]
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No one really knows. Would a dickhead who 'believed' be in better shape with Jesus, than a non-believer who was charitable, kind, good-hearted? I just don't see it. Everyone's journey is different. We don't know why they are the way they are, only God knows that. There's an old family friend who died a non-believer. (At least he was ambivalent/agnostic.) There is no way I believe he's burning in Hell. He had experiences in life that soured him on religion, but he was a good person. Under other circumstances, I think he would have been more receptive to religion. I blame the people who were so awful that they soured him on religion. I don't blame him. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 10:56:43 AM EDT
[#4]
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If God is anywhere near as wise and shrewd as most organized religions hold, then given the choice in his draft picks between these two types: 1. Guy who lives a clean, moral and upright life, but never bothered to have the appropriate incantations and ceremonies done for him and never went to church. 2. Guy who checked the boxes by showing up and going through the rituals, but Monday-Saturday was a total turd (dishonest in business, cheated on wife routinely, etc.). ... I would have to hope he goes for #1. There are plenty of both types out there, by the way. Again, you must be saved to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You cannot live a good life and expect to enter the Kingdom. A lot of you need to put arfcom down and read a Bible. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 10:57:02 AM EDT
[#5]
What I was talk was you could be a child molester or serial killer, but accept Christ at the last second on life and go to heaven. But a non Christian can live a very moral life helping people more than Mother Teresa and still go to hell. Sounds like a scam. That's why I never went back to church as an adult.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 10:57:56 AM EDT
[#6]
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If god punishes me with eternal torment simply because I didnt worship him, he is a dick and unworthy of worship. That's an awful thing to say about God, He loves you. 
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Posted: 10/9/2014 10:59:13 AM EDT
[#7]
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If god punishes me with eternal torment simply because I didnt worship him, he is a dick and unworthy of worship. 
If you don't want to worship God, why would you want to go to heaven where all you're going to do is worship God? |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 10:59:43 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know, and I don't disagree with you. But that's what people who believe in Vishnu say, too. I ain't arguing with ya, I'm just letting you know they pity you too. And I'll bet this doesn't bother you that much, for the same reason atheists aren't bothered that much. Make sense? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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*sigh* So many mis-guided people, so many trolls. I almost pity those that think God doesn't exist. I say almost because we all have a choice to make, and the majority have chosen to condemn themselves. Yea, I know. I can't really prove He exists, but none of you can't prove He doesn't. You can't help those that don't want it. You've just explained why it would be nigh impossible to convince you that Vishnu exists, and that you've had it all wrong. It's nothing to pity. It just is what it is. I have Faith, and I believe. Not a hard concept. God is real. I know, and I don't disagree with you. But that's what people who believe in Vishnu say, too. I ain't arguing with ya, I'm just letting you know they pity you too. And I'll bet this doesn't bother you that much, for the same reason atheists aren't bothered that much. Make sense? Absolutely, I just wish people would reconsider. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:00:10 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, you must be saved to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You cannot live a good life and expect to enter the Kingdom. A lot of you need to put arfcom down and read a Bible. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If God is anywhere near as wise and shrewd as most organized religions hold, then given the choice in his draft picks between these two types: 1. Guy who lives a clean, moral and upright life, but never bothered to have the appropriate incantations and ceremonies done for him and never went to church. 2. Guy who checked the boxes by showing up and going through the rituals, but Monday-Saturday was a total turd (dishonest in business, cheated on wife routinely, etc.). ... I would have to hope he goes for #1. There are plenty of both types out there, by the way. Again, you must be saved to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You cannot live a good life and expect to enter the Kingdom. A lot of you need to put arfcom down and read a Bible. 
I've read it. If a box-checker who is "saved" but lives like an asshole gets into the club, I don't want to be part of that club. Regardless of whether it actually exists. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:00:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
For the sake of this thread, let's all assume that God exists and The Bible is true. If an atheist leads a good and moral life, doing all the things that a good Christian does(other than accepting Christ), will they still go to Hell? Suppose someone just can't bring themselves to believe due to logic or ignorance. When they stand before God and say, "Sorry, I just didn't buy what The Bible was selling." Will God say, "Tough shit."? Given your parameters, you already have your answer. So for my 2nd thread response today, "Why do you even ask?" Anyone who don't believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and accept him as their savior will be consigned to Hell. It doesn't matter how good, or how moral someone is. No one is perfect, therefore no one can stand innocent before God's perfect judgement. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:03:20 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting question, and I will answer it with another question....... What do you think happened to all of the Jews who passed on in the few thousand years before the appearance of Christ? And all the other people of all the other religions and beliefs who were born and died before Christianity was even a figment of the imagination? For that matter, where is Christ himself? He was born, and died, a Jew. He certainly didn't take himself to be the Savior in the same sense that your question asks. My .02: There is no literal Heaven, or Hell. They are constructs that we have created to explain the unexplainable. The only thing we know for sure, is that we don't know what comes next. Very well said. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:03:36 AM EDT
[#12]
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Would a dickhead who 'believed' be in better shape with Jesus, than a non-believer who was charitable, kind, good-hearted? I just don't see it. Everyone's journey is different. We don't know why they are the way they are, only God knows that. There's an old family friend who died a non-believer. (At least he was ambivalent/agnostic.) There is no way I believe he's burning in Hell. He had experiences in life that soured him on religion, but he was a good person. Under other circumstances, I think he would have been more receptive to religion. I blame the people who were so awful that they soured him on religion. I don't blame him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No one really knows. Would a dickhead who 'believed' be in better shape with Jesus, than a non-believer who was charitable, kind, good-hearted? I just don't see it. Everyone's journey is different. We don't know why they are the way they are, only God knows that. There's an old family friend who died a non-believer. (At least he was ambivalent/agnostic.) There is no way I believe he's burning in Hell. He had experiences in life that soured him on religion, but he was a good person. Under other circumstances, I think he would have been more receptive to religion. I blame the people who were so awful that they soured him on religion. I don't blame him. Yep, a priest who touches boys will get in, but a guy who is morally right, but doesn't "believe" won't. What about all of those people/tribes that never see "the good book" or were forced into a religion as a child by their parents? Yep, God is going to send them to hell.. Child Standing in front of god Child: who are you? God: I am the holy spirit Child: What is that? God: I created everything you see, the earth and the heavens Child: Never Heard of you, I lived in a small tribe God: I take it you didn't get the memo....Sucks to be you. Child: Wait a second, I see you now and I believe you exist! God: A little late to the party kid, of course I exist, but you can't choose after you die Child: But this is the first I've heard of you. God: To bad...Well, bye. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:07:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would a dickhead who 'believed' be in better shape with Jesus, than a non-believer who was charitable, kind, good-hearted? I just don't see it. Everyone's journey is different. We don't know why they are the way they are, only God knows that. There's an old family friend who died a non-believer. (At least he was ambivalent/agnostic.) There is no way I believe he's burning in Hell. He had experiences in life that soured him on religion, but he was a good person. Under other circumstances, I think he would have been more receptive to religion. I blame the people who were so awful that they soured him on religion. I don't blame him. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No one really knows. Would a dickhead who 'believed' be in better shape with Jesus, than a non-believer who was charitable, kind, good-hearted? I just don't see it. Everyone's journey is different. We don't know why they are the way they are, only God knows that. There's an old family friend who died a non-believer. (At least he was ambivalent/agnostic.) There is no way I believe he's burning in Hell. He had experiences in life that soured him on religion, but he was a good person. Under other circumstances, I think he would have been more receptive to religion. I blame the people who were so awful that they soured him on religion. I don't blame him. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:08:06 AM EDT
[#14]
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I've read it. If a box-checker who is "saved" but lives like an asshole gets into the club, I don't want to be part of that club. Regardless of whether it actually exists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If God is anywhere near as wise and shrewd as most organized religions hold, then given the choice in his draft picks between these two types: 1. Guy who lives a clean, moral and upright life, but never bothered to have the appropriate incantations and ceremonies done for him and never went to church. 2. Guy who checked the boxes by showing up and going through the rituals, but Monday-Saturday was a total turd (dishonest in business, cheated on wife routinely, etc.). ... I would have to hope he goes for #1. There are plenty of both types out there, by the way. Again, you must be saved to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You cannot live a good life and expect to enter the Kingdom. A lot of you need to put arfcom down and read a Bible.
I've read it. If a box-checker who is "saved" but lives like an asshole gets into the club, I don't want to be part of that club. Regardless of whether it actually exists. If you've read it, you know that a true faith is more than "checking a box." |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:09:05 AM EDT
[#15]
Yes.
cause no one can lead a "moral" life. only one person did that, Jesus Christ. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:09:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Ah, another freshman year-in-a-dorm level religion thread in GD. A timeless tradition.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:09:43 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Based on my understanding of the Bible, and supposing for the sake of argument that the Bible is true - yeah, we're destined for hell no matter how super duper we are. That's what the book says. I didn't write it, and am under no obligation to explain it. Not that I'm worried about it, mind you. I'll lay dollars to donuts that in the back of your mind, sometimes, you worry about it. I was raised/programmed similar to you. That programming doesn't go completely away. If you've accomplished it, how about letting a brother in on your secret? 
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:09:55 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, a priest who touches boys will get in, but a guy who is morally right, but doesn't "believe" won't. What about all of those people/tribes that never see "the good book" or were forced into a religion as a child by their parents? Yep, God is going to send them to hell.. Child Standing in front of god Child: who are you? God: I am the holy spirit Child: What is that? God: I created everything you see, the earth and the heavens Child: Never Heard of you, I lived in a small tribe God: I take it you didn't get the memo....Sucks to be you. Child: Wait a second, I see you now and I believe you exist! God: A little late to the party kid, of course I exist, but you can't choose after you die Child: But this is the first I've heard of you. God: To bad...Well, bye. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No one really knows. Would a dickhead who 'believed' be in better shape with Jesus, than a non-believer who was charitable, kind, good-hearted? I just don't see it. Everyone's journey is different. We don't know why they are the way they are, only God knows that. There's an old family friend who died a non-believer. (At least he was ambivalent/agnostic.) There is no way I believe he's burning in Hell. He had experiences in life that soured him on religion, but he was a good person. Under other circumstances, I think he would have been more receptive to religion. I blame the people who were so awful that they soured him on religion. I don't blame him. Yep, a priest who touches boys will get in, but a guy who is morally right, but doesn't "believe" won't. What about all of those people/tribes that never see "the good book" or were forced into a religion as a child by their parents? Yep, God is going to send them to hell.. Child Standing in front of god Child: who are you? God: I am the holy spirit Child: What is that? God: I created everything you see, the earth and the heavens Child: Never Heard of you, I lived in a small tribe God: I take it you didn't get the memo....Sucks to be you. Child: Wait a second, I see you now and I believe you exist! God: A little late to the party kid, of course I exist, but you can't choose after you die Child: But this is the first I've heard of you. God: To bad...Well, bye. The Bible covers everything you've said. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:09:57 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
For the sake of this thread, let's all assume that God exists and The Bible is true. If an atheist leads a good and moral life, doing all the things that a good Christian does(other than accepting Christ), will they still go to Hell? Suppose someone just can't bring themselves to believe due to logic pridefulness or ignorance a foolish, unrepentant love of sin. When they stand before God and say, "Sorry, I just didn't buy what The Bible was selling." Will God say, "Tough shit."? Well--how are they going to feel about admitting that they have been obnoxious shits their whole lives--and that what they thought so very wise was in fact absolute foolishness? Are they willing to do that? Are they willing to see themselves clearly and recognize their actual place in the food chain? |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:10:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've read it. If a box-checker who is "saved" but lives like an asshole gets into the club, I don't want to be part of that club. Regardless of whether it actually exists. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If God is anywhere near as wise and shrewd as most organized religions hold, then given the choice in his draft picks between these two types: 1. Guy who lives a clean, moral and upright life, but never bothered to have the appropriate incantations and ceremonies done for him and never went to church. 2. Guy who checked the boxes by showing up and going through the rituals, but Monday-Saturday was a total turd (dishonest in business, cheated on wife routinely, etc.). ... I would have to hope he goes for #1. There are plenty of both types out there, by the way. Again, you must be saved to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You cannot live a good life and expect to enter the Kingdom. A lot of you need to put arfcom down and read a Bible.
I've read it. If a box-checker who is "saved" but lives like an asshole gets into the club, I don't want to be part of that club. Regardless of whether it actually exists. I'm not sure that's actually how it works, since Jesus taught Love, that really meant a lot to Him. So being an "asshole" probably wouldn't get a "saved" person into Heaven. But again, we all have free will and can do and think as we wish, just remember that the wages of Sin is Death. God loves every last one of us. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:11:33 AM EDT
[#21]
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Right, which is why Pascal's Wager never made any sense to me. You can't just will yourself into believing something you earnestly think is bunk. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Of course if it's a "just in case" thing, they still screwed. Right, which is why Pascal's Wager never made any sense to me. You can't just will yourself into believing something you earnestly think is bunk. I think this also relates to what another member mentioned about people going to church, reading/knowing the bible, and even spreading the word. They do it but they don't truly believe it/ in him. They don't will themselves into believing, just going through the motions thinking it will work. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:12:21 AM EDT
[#22]
I absolutely believe God exists, I know He is all love. I don't know how everything will shake out after death, but I know He is very merciful. Not a pushover, not a sucker, but very merciful.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:12:34 AM EDT
[#23]
I you assume the bible is true, the only correct answer is yes.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:12:53 AM EDT
[#24]
There is no "morally right" in comparison to the Father. We are all born in sin, and there's nothing any of us can do about it. The only way to Him is through the Son of Man, His only begotten son.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:13:00 AM EDT
[#25]
Ephesians 2:8-10
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:13:40 AM EDT
[#26]
I was raised Catholic, but I don't care what any Book says. If someone leads a good, just life and is good to other people, there is absolutely no reason why they won't end up in heaven as well. If heaven is gated for only those who accept some form of Christianity, maybe I don't want to be there after all.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:14:34 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll lay dollars to donuts that in the back of your mind, sometimes, you worry about it. I was raised/programmed similar to you. That programming doesn't go completely away. If you've accomplished it, how about letting a brother in on your secret? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Based on my understanding of the Bible, and supposing for the sake of argument that the Bible is true - yeah, we're destined for hell no matter how super duper we are. That's what the book says. I didn't write it, and am under no obligation to explain it. Not that I'm worried about it, mind you. I'll lay dollars to donuts that in the back of your mind, sometimes, you worry about it. I was raised/programmed similar to you. That programming doesn't go completely away. If you've accomplished it, how about letting a brother in on your secret?  |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:15:26 AM EDT
[#28]
Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:15:27 AM EDT
[#29]
It is always curious to watch people who are about to die flash the devil's horns.
They thought they were having SUCH an awesome time. PARTY! PARTY! PARTY! Durr-hurr! 
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:17:27 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Bible covers everything you've said. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No one really knows. Would a dickhead who 'believed' be in better shape with Jesus, than a non-believer who was charitable, kind, good-hearted? I just don't see it. Everyone's journey is different. We don't know why they are the way they are, only God knows that. There's an old family friend who died a non-believer. (At least he was ambivalent/agnostic.) There is no way I believe he's burning in Hell. He had experiences in life that soured him on religion, but he was a good person. Under other circumstances, I think he would have been more receptive to religion. I blame the people who were so awful that they soured him on religion. I don't blame him. Yep, a priest who touches boys will get in, but a guy who is morally right, but doesn't "believe" won't. What about all of those people/tribes that never see "the good book" or were forced into a religion as a child by their parents? Yep, God is going to send them to hell.. Child Standing in front of god Child: who are you? God: I am the holy spirit Child: What is that? God: I created everything you see, the earth and the heavens Child: Never Heard of you, I lived in a small tribe God: I take it you didn't get the memo....Sucks to be you. Child: Wait a second, I see you now and I believe you exist! God: A little late to the party kid, of course I exist, but you can't choose after you die Child: But this is the first I've heard of you. God: To bad...Well, bye. The Bible covers everything you've said. Philippians 2 …9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Living or dead, everyone will meet the maker and have their chance, whether they knew Him in life or not.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:18:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you think a christian believer (now), if born in the middle of Indonesia, is going to find Christ or be of Muslim faith? And do you think they would also think the other religion is wrong? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What if Allah is right and Christians are missing out on 17 virgins? Do you think a christian believer (now), if born in the middle of Indonesia, is going to find Christ or be of Muslim faith? And do you think they would also think the other religion is wrong? If born around it, stats show that they would most likely be Muslim. They would also probably think the other religion is wrong, especially being Muslim. That's kinda what the Koran says, ya know. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:20:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you've read it, you know that a true faith is more than "checking a box." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If God is anywhere near as wise and shrewd as most organized religions hold, then given the choice in his draft picks between these two types: 1. Guy who lives a clean, moral and upright life, but never bothered to have the appropriate incantations and ceremonies done for him and never went to church. 2. Guy who checked the boxes by showing up and going through the rituals, but Monday-Saturday was a total turd (dishonest in business, cheated on wife routinely, etc.). ... I would have to hope he goes for #1. There are plenty of both types out there, by the way. Again, you must be saved to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You cannot live a good life and expect to enter the Kingdom. A lot of you need to put arfcom down and read a Bible.
I've read it. If a box-checker who is "saved" but lives like an asshole gets into the club, I don't want to be part of that club. Regardless of whether it actually exists. If you've read it, you know that a true faith is more than "checking a box." Yeah. Lots of people that say, "Lord, Lord!" ain't getting in. I just hope I'm not one of them. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:20:39 AM EDT
[#33]
I wonder how many Christians we have here getting free Redbull.
Matthew 7:12 and all that. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:21:33 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you don't want to worship God, why would you want to go to heaven where all you're going to do is worship God? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If god punishes me with eternal torment simply because I didnt worship him, he is a dick and unworthy of worship.
If you don't want to worship God, why would you want to go to heaven where all you're going to do is worship God? That just sounds like a bunch of bullshit. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:22:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's an awful thing to say about God, He loves you.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
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If god punishes me with eternal torment simply because I didnt worship him, he is a dick and unworthy of worship. That's an awful thing to say about God, He loves you.
Apparently not if he is willing to condemn me to eternal torment. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:23:04 AM EDT
[#36]
OK G*d is real and the Christiam Bibleis real, therefore the T*r*h is true and predates it all, under the covenant with G*d, it is the Jewish 'Hell' a lake of fire that you are punished and cleansed in. Then you go to Heaven. Also we have the Laws of Noah, which are for the non Jew. Those are the fourth to tenth Commandments, so you the Atheist can go to Heaven if he follows the laws of Noah and leads a good life.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:23:38 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you don't want to worship God, why would you want to go to heaven where all you're going to do is worship God? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If god punishes me with eternal torment simply because I didnt worship him, he is a dick and unworthy of worship.
If you don't want to worship God, why would you want to go to heaven where all you're going to do is worship God? Who said I wanted to? I don't believe it exists, but if it does, and he casts out anyone who didn't pass his little faith test and damns them to eternal torment, again, speaks volumes about him. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:23:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Living or dead, everyone will meet the maker and have their chance, whether they knew Him in life or not. There you go. I believe my friend (the one who died an unbeliever, but who was a good person) has met Jesus and now knows. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:23:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Since Hell is a fictional place, no.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:24:08 AM EDT
[#40]
The cult scare tactic only works if there are consequences to not falling in line.
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:24:17 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I recall, he stated in a past thread that he was somewhat envious of people who have strong religious convictions but couldn't get on board due to common sense winning out. Don't quote me, though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Based on my understanding of the Bible, and supposing for the sake of argument that the Bible is true - yeah, we're destined for hell no matter how super duper we are. That's what the book says. I didn't write it, and am under no obligation to explain it. Not that I'm worried about it, mind you. I'll lay dollars to donuts that in the back of your mind, sometimes, you worry about it. I was raised/programmed similar to you. That programming doesn't go completely away. If you've accomplished it, how about letting a brother in on your secret? I feel the same way. Faith can be a very comforting, stabilizing, driving thing....IF you happen to be able to believe. I've said before. I can no more force myself to believe that than I can force myself to believe 2+2=5. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:24:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is always curious to watch people who are about to die flash the devil's horns. They thought they were having SUCH an awesome time. PARTY! PARTY! PARTY! Durr-hurr!  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd1F2VSvMNkYeah, they brought it on themselves with all that devil music n' what not. The fire was a caused by idiot pyrotechnics in an enclosed area. Not the use of "devil horns". 
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:26:28 AM EDT
[#43]
The real question is, assuming the Jedi Religion is correct, will deceased Christians be able to manifest themselves to Luke at the Ewok victory celebration?
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:27:09 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...snip... So, IOW, if you live well and never hear about Christianity, you're probably ok; but if you live well and do hear about it, then a definite percentage of people who would otherwise be ok are now going to be tortured, infinitely. Seems like it would be the moral imperative of all people who oppose the infinite torture of people who live well, and consider Christianity true, to exterminate the possibility of ever hearing about it. And with infinity on the scales? Holy shit, that makes even world genocide a logical, moral option. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:28:04 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Philippians 2 …9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Living or dead, everyone will meet the maker and have their chance, whether they knew Him in life or not. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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No one really knows. Would a dickhead who 'believed' be in better shape with Jesus, than a non-believer who was charitable, kind, good-hearted? I just don't see it. Everyone's journey is different. We don't know why they are the way they are, only God knows that. There's an old family friend who died a non-believer. (At least he was ambivalent/agnostic.) There is no way I believe he's burning in Hell. He had experiences in life that soured him on religion, but he was a good person. Under other circumstances, I think he would have been more receptive to religion. I blame the people who were so awful that they soured him on religion. I don't blame him. Yep, a priest who touches boys will get in, but a guy who is morally right, but doesn't "believe" won't. What about all of those people/tribes that never see "the good book" or were forced into a religion as a child by their parents? Yep, God is going to send them to hell.. Child Standing in front of god Child: who are you? God: I am the holy spirit Child: What is that? God: I created everything you see, the earth and the heavens Child: Never Heard of you, I lived in a small tribe God: I take it you didn't get the memo....Sucks to be you. Child: Wait a second, I see you now and I believe you exist! God: A little late to the party kid, of course I exist, but you can't choose after you die Child: But this is the first I've heard of you. God: To bad...Well, bye. The Bible covers everything you've said. …9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Living or dead, everyone will meet the maker and have their chance, whether they knew Him in life or not. Well, that just answers the question to the thread. Sorry, I haven't picked up my copy of christian mythology in a while. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:30:08 AM EDT
[#46]
iirc the Bible says the only way to God is through Jesus.
There are many analogies I can make to that. So the road leading to Jesus is the Catholic Church, but are their any side streets? So the Bridge to God is Jesus - does that limit who God allows to use it or what type of vehicle they use it with? We don't know is the safest answer. We feel we know the best ways, but only arrogance would let us believe we know all the plans of God. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:30:13 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll lay dollars to donuts that in the back of your mind, sometimes, you worry about it. I was raised/programmed similar to you. That programming doesn't go completely away. If you've accomplished it, how about letting a brother in on your secret? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Based on my understanding of the Bible, and supposing for the sake of argument that the Bible is true - yeah, we're destined for hell no matter how super duper we are. That's what the book says. I didn't write it, and am under no obligation to explain it. Not that I'm worried about it, mind you. I'll lay dollars to donuts that in the back of your mind, sometimes, you worry about it. I was raised/programmed similar to you. That programming doesn't go completely away. If you've accomplished it, how about letting a brother in on your secret? I think all children should be told that there is no reason for them to accept any religious claims as real, that adults believe many things that are not real, and they should wait until they are older to start investigating it. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:30:53 AM EDT
[#48]
The bible is pretty clear about that...
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:32:13 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who said I wanted to? I don't believe it exists, but if it does, and he casts out anyone who didn't pass his little faith test and damns them to eternal torment, again, speaks volumes about him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If god punishes me with eternal torment simply because I didnt worship him, he is a dick and unworthy of worship.
If you don't want to worship God, why would you want to go to heaven where all you're going to do is worship God? Who said I wanted to? I don't believe it exists, but if it does, and he casts out anyone who didn't pass his little faith test and damns them to eternal torment, again, speaks volumes about him. lol So, people don't want to worship God or have anything to do with him, God gives them what they want, and that makes him a dick. Great logic you've got there. |
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Posted: 10/9/2014 11:32:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no "morally right" in comparison to the Father. We are all born in sin, and there's nothing any of us can do about it. The only way to Him is through the Son of Man, His only begotten son. |
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