When did the current worship of thug/ghetto culture begin? - Page 3

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - When did the current worship of thug/ghetto culture begin? (Page 3 of 5)

Posted: 4/16/2012 9:17:30 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:

And I'm not talking about just Black people doing it. White kids, Asain kids, etc act like this. Why? Is it because they see these thugs do whatever they want and it goes unpunished? I don't get it.

it started with integration/desegregation.....i was there so i can confirm.....

MTV manufactures "youth culture" and they wanted to bring about real integration/desegregation by making ghetto black culture into popular youth culture for all races.

Before the late 1980's, things were still pretty much segregated because it was voluntary.

huh???? they forcefully intergrated my high school in 1974-75....without forced integration i doubt we would be where we are today......it set up an unavoidable outcome.....

i am not racist....far from it just against social engineering by the gubnent

Posted: 4/16/2012 9:21:54 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Ehh..I remember it becoming pretty popular when I was in middle school. Approx. 97-98 or so. This was in a largely white upper-upper middle class area in suburban Atlanta. We had a handful of black kids at my school and they were automatically considered "cool" because they were black. Hip-hop, rap whatever typically has a catchy beat and that is what people want to party to. Even people who never listen to it on their own want to listen to it when they go to a party or club/bar. Girls don't dance to Metallica, guys want whatever will make girls grind their asses on their dicks. They rarely listen closely to the lyrics or judge them.

The music is really what paved the way. Without the music, the "culture" would have stayed in the ghetto.

Reminds me of a discussion I had last night where a friend unveiled his Unified Theory of Shitty Music. He basically said they he didn't believe that shitty music existed before the electronic drum machine. Caused us to check Wikipedia and see that the drum machine really hit the musical world in 1957. Before that, music was entirely created by people who had honed it as a craft.

Even if it was acappella stuff like Gregorian monk chants, there was still a craft to it. It might be a type of music you don't love, like opera or old gospel, country or blues. It might be folk music from anywhere on the planet, or just simple drumming and group singing by some primitive tribe sitting around a campfire. But before the drum machine there was artistic value to pretty much all the music that existed. There has been good music created with drum machines, of course, but it is still the force that birthed shitty music into the world. It was later joined by the synthesizer and things really started to go downhill fast.

One point that was added to the conversation was that the the drum machine hit around the same time as Elvis. As talented as Elvis was, and as much as he did for music, he also ushered in the era when it became possible for a very young person to get extremely rich and famous by creating music. Before that music was usually either created as an obsession of a starving artists or a hobby for someone with a real job. Either way it was something that people dedicated themselves to mastering because they loved it.

Even after the drum machine was around, it took a while for shitty music to really spread. Another point my friend made was that 60s bands like the Animals, Rolling Stones, etc., made such good music because they had never been exposed to shitty music growing up, so it didn't have an influence on them.

Posted: 4/16/2012 9:27:01 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:

Quoted:
And I'm not talking about just Black people doing it. White kids, Asain kids, etc act like this. Why? Is it because they see these thugs do whatever they want and it goes unpunished? I don't get it.

it started with integration/desegregation.....i was there so i can confirm.....

MTV manufactures "youth culture" and they wanted to bring about real integration/desegregation by making ghetto black culture into popular youth culture for all races.

Before the late 1980's, things were still pretty much segregated because it was voluntary.

huh???? they forcefully intergrated my high school in 1974-75....without forced integration i doubt we would be where we are today......it set up an unavoidable outcome.....

i am not racist....far from it just against social engineering by the gubnent

Busing is one thing, but there was no voluntarily integration before rap and hip-hop became popular.

Posted: 4/16/2012 9:50:56 PM EDT

[#4]

Mid to late 80s.

Posted: 4/16/2012 10:10:36 PM EDT

[#5]

Another vote for the move: "Colors."

That movie single-handely turned the LA gang problem into an American gang problem.

Posted: 4/16/2012 10:17:32 PM EDT

[#6]

I can actually give you an answer to that, at least with regards to suburban NJ.

Growing up in NJ in the early 80's, ghetto behavior wouldn't have been tolerated. White kids acting like Blacks would have been mocked unmercifully or beat up, guaranteed.

(by either side

)

Our own white Irish/Italian culture was bad enough, don't get me wrong. We were punks, hoodlums, trouble makers and criminals, but in the traditional, time honored way.

Then, Break Dancing happened.

Kids would walk around with Boom Boxes and pieces of cardboard, I shit you not.

That led to Rap, NWA and the rest of 'em.

Which led to today.

I've been patiently waiting for the Break Dance Fad to end...and one day it will.

I just hope I live to see it.

Posted: 4/16/2012 10:56:54 PM EDT

[#7]

Great posts but one group did it and that was NWA/easy duz it. Blame it on glam rock the world wanted outlaws and guys in spandex one day didn't cut it when there was actual drug dealers and outlaws putting out records. Kids wanted the hardest edge they could get.

Posted: 4/16/2012 10:59:32 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Compare that to the mafia, gangsters of the prohibition era etc. Scumbags with too much money, some of which they used to buy the illusion of class.

Guys who wore finely tailored suits, So do successful 'gangstas' when they want to show off their wealth.

and had a code of conduct they adhered to for the most part. They blew up buildings and threw acid in people's faces. Their code was 'whatever is good for business'

These guys at least attempted to have a little bit of class.

Having expensive stuff doesn't mean that you have class.

Dutch Schultz and Al Capone were vicious animals who could afford to dress nicely. They'd still have you tortured to death if it was convenient.

I never said they were good people just that they typically did have a code of conduct they adhered to. Capone for example supposedly paid for the medical bills of an innocent woman and child that were injured in the St. Valentine's day massacre. How many gangbangers today do you hear about doing that for the victims of their drive by shootings? He was also known to donate quite a bit of money to charities. While it does not excuse his behaviour it does show there is a stark contrast between him and what is being emulated today.

What we see glorified typically today is the "dope boy". The lowest of the low. The gang member on the corner with a gold grill, pants sagging, slinging rock or whatever else he can. He doesn't care who he hurts and he has little to no ethics. His only motivation is making money and he will tell you that himself.

Posted: 4/16/2012 11:09:22 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Compare that to the mafia, gangsters of the prohibition era etc. Scumbags with too much money, some of which they used to buy the illusion of class.

Guys who wore finely tailored suits, So do successful 'gangstas' when they want to show off their wealth.

and had a code of conduct they adhered to for the most part. They blew up buildings and threw acid in people's faces. Their code was 'whatever is good for business'

These guys at least attempted to have a little bit of class.

Having expensive stuff doesn't mean that you have class.

Dutch Schultz and Al Capone were vicious animals who could afford to dress nicely. They'd still have you tortured to death if it was convenient.

I never said they were good people just that they typically did have a code of conduct they adhered to. Capone for example supposedly paid for the medical bills of an innocent woman and child that were injured in the St. Valentine's day massacre. How many gangbangers today do you hear about doing that for the victims of their drive by shootings? He was also known to donate quite a bit of money to charities. While it does not excuse his behaviour it does show there is a stark contrast between him and what is being emulated today.

What we see glorified typically today is the "dope boy". The lowest of the low. The gang member on the corner with a gold grill, pants sagging, slinging rock or whatever else he can. He doesn't care who he hurts and he has little to no ethics. His only motivation is making money and he will tell you that himself.

You must be joking if you think black dealers don't pull the same shit to make it look like they are decent folks, just an illusion same as before.

Posted: 4/16/2012 11:11:31 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Late 80's, real early 90's

Yep.

Posted: 4/16/2012 11:13:11 PM EDT

[#11]

when Rapper's Delight came out, from then it went down hill,late 80 to mid 90s when it really got bad

Posted: 4/16/2012 11:21:04 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
When Michael Jackson got on MTV, mid eighties.
Before that, ghetto culture was primarily found in the ghettos.

I agree that MTV is probably to blame, but Michael Jackson isn't. Just because he was a black musician doesn't mean he was ghetto.

Posted: 4/16/2012 11:24:28 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Compare that to the mafia, gangsters of the prohibition era etc. Scumbags with too much money, some of which they used to buy the illusion of class.

Guys who wore finely tailored suits, So do successful 'gangstas' when they want to show off their wealth.

and had a code of conduct they adhered to for the most part. They blew up buildings and threw acid in people's faces. Their code was 'whatever is good for business'

These guys at least attempted to have a little bit of class.

Having expensive stuff doesn't mean that you have class.

Dutch Schultz and Al Capone were vicious animals who could afford to dress nicely. They'd still have you tortured to death if it was convenient.

I never said they were good people just that they typically did have a code of conduct they adhered to. Capone for example supposedly paid for the medical bills of an innocent woman and child that were injured in the St. Valentine's day massacre. How many gangbangers today do you hear about doing that for the victims of their drive by shootings? He was also known to donate quite a bit of money to charities. While it does not excuse his behaviour it does show there is a stark contrast between him and what is being emulated today.

What we see glorified typically today is the "dope boy". The lowest of the low. The gang member on the corner with a gold grill, pants sagging, slinging rock or whatever else he can. He doesn't care who he hurts and he has little to no ethics. His only motivation is making money and he will tell you that himself.

You must be joking if you think black dealers don't pull the same shit to make it look like they are decent folks, just an illusion same as before.

They really don't. Clearly you have never been around or don't understand the type of people I am talking about.

Posted: 4/16/2012 11:34:13 PM EDT

[#14]

Posted: 4/16/2012 11:52:30 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
When women found it attractive.

This. Pretty much everything stupid males do can be traced back to that.z

Posted: 4/17/2012 12:46:50 AM EDT

[#16]

When people got to the point that all they had to celebrate was their own stupidity.

Posted: 4/17/2012 12:58:22 AM EDT

[#17]

With MTV and the beginnings of Gansta Rap.

Anything that shows, you can make money, pull bitches and smoke weed while packing heat is going to appeal to people who have nothing else to make their way in the world.

Posted: 4/17/2012 3:13:55 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
I began to notice it in the late 1980s.

this.

J-

Posted: 4/17/2012 3:16:11 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
It came....Straight Outa Compton

A little before that. Right around the time break dancing became mainstream in 1982 or so it began. Then really picked up momentum with NWA.

Posted: 4/17/2012 3:38:54 AM EDT

[#20]

I remember back in 1985 when the world went crazy...

Posted: 4/17/2012 3:40:34 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Compare that to the mafia, gangsters of the prohibition era etc. Scumbags with too much money, some of which they used to buy the illusion of class.

Guys who wore finely tailored suits, So do successful 'gangstas' when they want to show off their wealth.

and had a code of conduct they adhered to for the most part. They blew up buildings and threw acid in people's faces. Their code was 'whatever is good for business'

These guys at least attempted to have a little bit of class.

Having expensive stuff doesn't mean that you have class.

Dutch Schultz and Al Capone were vicious animals who could afford to dress nicely. They'd still have you tortured to death if it was convenient.

Yeah, but they're white.

So they get a pass and romanticized

Posted: 4/17/2012 3:45:16 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When Dr Dre's album The Chronic came out.

Yep about that time- early 90's.

QFT

There was no gangsta rap until the early 90's.

That's when the thug look and gang-banging rap lyrics went mainstream and became idolized by kids.

I keep hoping it's a fad that will go away, but I'm sure parents in the 50's said that about Elvis and Bill Haley and the Comets too.

Posted: 4/17/2012 6:21:34 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Compare that to the mafia, gangsters of the prohibition era etc. Scumbags with too much money, some of which they used to buy the illusion of class.

Guys who wore finely tailored suits, So do successful 'gangstas' when they want to show off their wealth.

and had a code of conduct they adhered to for the most part. They blew up buildings and threw acid in people's faces. Their code was 'whatever is good for business'

These guys at least attempted to have a little bit of class.

Having expensive stuff doesn't mean that you have class.

Dutch Schultz and Al Capone were vicious animals who could afford to dress nicely. They'd still have you tortured to death if it was convenient.

Yeah, but they're white.

So they get a pass and romanticized

Your white guilt is showing. If you think these guys:

are the same as these guys in everything but outward appearance, you are setting yourself up for a rude awakening.

Posted: 4/17/2012 6:24:43 AM EDT

[#24]

The Old West.

Posted: 4/17/2012 6:29:30 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
It blew up in the 1990's when I lived in ATL.

It was around before that, but it was not mainstream.

I'd say it was around this time as well. Late 80's was the precursor, but the 90's was definately when it exploded.

Posted: 4/17/2012 7:11:52 AM EDT

[#26]

I could be mistaken on this, but I do believe the rise of thug culture began around the same time the real slim shady stood up, upon being asked "will the real slim shady please stand up." Right after that I knew, we're gonna have a problem here.

Posted: 4/17/2012 7:15:01 AM EDT

[#27]

Yo MTV Raps...

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Posted: 4/17/2012 7:24:01 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
I could be mistaken on this, but I do believe the rise of thug culture began around the same time the real slim shady stood up, upon being asked "will the real slim shady please stand up." Right after that I knew, we're gonna have a problem here.

Actually, it started long before that, which explains why someone had to ask for "the real" slim shady to stand up.

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Posted: 4/17/2012 7:34:17 AM EDT

[#29]

60's

Posted: 4/17/2012 7:37:43 AM EDT

[#30]

I remember it well. I was over at a buddy's apartment and he was telling me about this mythical process to transform cocaine into a thing called "crack". He swore it would be the biggest thing ever to hit the drug trade. We kind of knew a fellow who had buddies in Central America who could get kilos of cocaine cheap, kind of a long story, and he was considering turning it into a side business. The credit terms were pretty attractive. We discussed it over some beers and decided it was probably too much trouble to even consider seeing as how we all hated drug addicts. That would have been 1986.

Turns out the black guys had already figured it all out and were in the process of addicting one another in a race to the bottom for all the cash they could get. Since the black guys didn't have access to smuggling routes they had to rely on gangs to be the distribution network and of course that meant kicking up some of the proceeds. Once it became a really big business it became trendy. Of course this also meant we had a generation of kids idolizing illiterate murderous thugs and their lifestyle. It's all so institutionalized now that many in the black community don't see it as abnormal at all. I suspect when a real leader in that community speaks out against it he'll get shot with the same gun that killed Malcom X.

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:10:29 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When Dr Dre's album The Chronic came out.

Yep about that time- early 90's.

QFT

There was no gangsta rap until the early 90's.

That's when the thug look and gang-banging rap lyrics went mainstream and became idolized by kids.

I keep hoping it's a fad that will go away, but I'm sure parents in the 50's said that about Elvis and Bill Haley and the Comets too.

I'm telling you NWA, Ice-T and Colors(movie) are what exported the gang culture out of the inner cities and into the mainstream. That was all in the late 1980s. They even made a 21 jump street episode about gang culture, and that was well before "The Cronic" ever came out.

Looking back this is pretty corny, but it was something us white kids had never heard before and it sounded hard-core as shit to a young teen. LOL

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:11:49 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Compare that to the mafia, gangsters of the prohibition era etc. Scumbags with too much money, some of which they used to buy the illusion of class.

Guys who wore finely tailored suits, So do successful 'gangstas' when they want to show off their wealth.

and had a code of conduct they adhered to for the most part. They blew up buildings and threw acid in people's faces. Their code was 'whatever is good for business'

These guys at least attempted to have a little bit of class.

Having expensive stuff doesn't mean that you have class.

Dutch Schultz and Al Capone were vicious animals who could afford to dress nicely. They'd still have you tortured to death if it was convenient.

Yeah, but they're white.

So they get a pass and romanticized

Your white guilt is showing. If you think these guys:

http://af11.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/modica-300x300.jpg

are the same as these guys in everything but outward appearance, you are setting yourself up for a rude awakening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5MGJ87hPGw

Nowhere near the same but I'm not going to make excuses for them because they knew how to dress.

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:15:26 AM EDT

[#33]

And what the fuck is white guilt?

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:22:13 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
And what the fuck is white guilt?

Some fucked up disease I don't have.

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:34:11 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
A long time ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rog8ou-ZepE

carp i was going to post that

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:35:46 AM EDT

[#36]

when a person thats white or asian talks in EBONICS it sounds retarded, almost like mimicking black ghetto talk

remember the movie GRAN TORINO? the Hmongs were trying to talk like blacks and trying to sound tough

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:39:51 AM EDT

[#37]

I going to blame Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. Specifically their song, the Message.

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:44:42 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
I going to blame Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. Specifically their song, the Message.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ifs3JR31dro/TX81gBtc1YI/AAAAAAAABkg/MDUb7JVBUlM/s1600/grandmaster_flash_furious_five_fashion_stylist_regret.jpg

It looks like they let a kid with downs in the group.

At least they got that going for them

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:49:40 AM EDT

[#39]

In '87, as I was walking into a Tower Records store, Some kid (maybe 15) stopped me and asked me to buy "Luke Skywalker" cassette for him and he gave me some money and waited outside the store. He said the counter salesman wouldn't sell it to him. I had no clue who that was or anything about Rap. I took his money and bought him the cassette. Never heard of 2 Live Crew until then.

Then the shit hit the fan and the country hasn't been the same since.

So I'd say it would be in the late 80's that the mainstream American culture took a very steep nosedive into the ghetto gutters.

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:57:48 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
When Dr Dre's album The Chronic came out.

Yep about that time- early 90's.

QFT

There was no gangsta rap until the early 90's.

That's when the thug look and gang-banging rap lyrics went mainstream and became idolized by kids.

I keep hoping it's a fad that will go away, but I'm sure parents in the 50's said that about Elvis and Bill Haley and the Comets too.

I'm telling you NWA, Ice-T and Colors(movie) are what exported the gang culture out of the inner cities and into the mainstream. That was all in the late 1980s. They even made a 21 jump street episode about gang culture, and that was well before "The Cronic" ever came out.

Looking back this is pretty corny, but it was something us white kids had never heard before and it sounded hard-core as shit to a young teen. LOL

http://youtu.be/LI8Zx_QvNVU

You are correct-this was the turning point. Once Gangsta Rap showed up, it went from there. By the time I finished high school in 1992, upper class white kids were trying to act ghetto cruising around in mom and dad's Caddy with rap blaring. I figure it was a passing fad, so I ignored it.

I was wrong.

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:58:21 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Fucking Ledbelly

Do you mean Leadbelly? Being that if you ask most people that aren't musicians or heavily into blues they wouldn't have a clue who you were talking about, I doubt it.

Posted: 4/17/2012 8:59:12 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Compare that to the mafia, gangsters of the prohibition era etc. Scumbags with too much money, some of which they used to buy the illusion of class.

Guys who wore finely tailored suits, So do successful 'gangstas' when they want to show off their wealth.

and had a code of conduct they adhered to for the most part. They blew up buildings and threw acid in people's faces. Their code was 'whatever is good for business'

These guys at least attempted to have a little bit of class.

Having expensive stuff doesn't mean that you have class.

Dutch Schultz and Al Capone were vicious animals who could afford to dress nicely. They'd still have you tortured to death if it was convenient.

Yeah, but they're white.

So they get a pass and romanticized

Your white guilt is showing. If you think these guys:

http://af11.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/modica-300x300.jpg

are the same as these guys in everything but outward appearance, you are setting yourself up for a rude awakening.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5MGJ87hPGw

Nowhere near the same but I'm not going to make excuses for them because they knew how to dress.

One key difference is that the guys in the first video are top-level while the bottom are bottom-level. Not really a valid comparison, now is it?

Edit: The image of the classy Mafia family came from the Godfather movies. Before that movie, they were no class thugs. After, they thought it looked cool and tried to emulate it.

Posted: 4/17/2012 9:02:11 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Fucking Ledbelly

Do you mean Leadbelly? Being that if you ask most people that aren't musicians or heavily into blues they wouldn't have a clue who you were talking about, I doubt it.

Therein lies the joke

Posted: 4/17/2012 9:02:43 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
When dads quit whipping ass for such behavior.

yep, and when they were not around to do it either

Posted: 4/17/2012 9:05:08 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:

I going to blame Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five. Specifically their song, the Message.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ifs3JR31dro/TX81gBtc1YI/AAAAAAAABkg/MDUb7JVBUlM/s1600/grandmaster_flash_furious_five_fashion_stylist_regret.jpg

Just the way they're dressed shows they should locked up and keys thrown away.

Posted: 4/17/2012 9:05:11 AM EDT

[#46]

I noticed it in the late 80s early 90s.

That's when white kids my my small rural town in NC
began dressing like thug black kids.

I assume you mean the celebration of the "hip hop lifestyle"
because celebration of criminal behavior and lifestyle goes
back, i'd suspect to the beginning of time when Grog figgured
out it was easier to beat up Ook and take his stuff, than to
go kill a sabretoothed tiger himself.

Posted: 4/17/2012 9:06:25 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
When Dr Dre's album The Chronic came out.

Love that album. I didn't feel the need to live it though.

Posted: 4/17/2012 9:07:50 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
The beginning of the war on drugs. Just like gangsters were idolized during prohibition.

This. It has to do with the high incarceration rates of black men. The percentage of black men going to prison went up dramatically. Eventually, it reached a point where ex-cons were the major role models in the black community. Combine that with the fact that lots of blacks aren't particularly happy with white society, and it is easy to see how young black kids picked it up as their rebellious identity. Everybody needs to feel proud of something, even if it is the wrong shit to be proud of. It spread from there.

Posted: 4/17/2012 9:09:21 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

When Michael Jackson got on MTV, mid eighties.

Before that, ghetto culture was primarily found in the ghettos.

I agree that MTV is probably to blame, but Michael Jackson isn't. Just because he was a black musician doesn't mean he was ghetto.

This. Michael Jackson was not in the same company as Easy-E, NWA, 2 Live Crew, Tupac, etc.

Posted: 4/17/2012 9:10:45 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
better question, how do we stop it?...

Gainfully employed black men would be the first place to start. Kids look up to the adults around them. If they are raised in an ex-con environment, they will accept that as normal. If they are raised with a gainfully employed adult male, they accept that as normal.

I don't expect it will be easy.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - When did the current worship of thug/ghetto culture begin? (Page 3 of 5)

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