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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:05:33 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:08:53 PM EDT
[#2]
To answer the OP's question, you go to jail, your NCO makes sure you get out of jail, then you get punished by the civilian system, then you get punished by the military system (not necessarily in that order, but I always prefered to have all the evidence & testimony from the civilian trial before pushing an Article 15 or pushing for an Article 32 investigation.)
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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:09:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. She wasn't either of those if she was a Navy LT. She had no authority to order civilian law enforcement to effect an arrest. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:15:44 PM EDT
[#4]
Buddy of mine got a dwi while on leave after Marine boot camp. It's definitely on his record, I found it on the county website. He served 4 years, went to Iraq and Afghanistan, received an honorable discharge, and I can't tell how anyone would be better off had they found out about it and kicked him out.
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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:16:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. It's a bit more complex than that, and the second part of that is incorrect completely. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:24:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Before I retired this is what happened:
Tossed in the clink for anything other than murder, child molestation, rape, wife beating or DUI - As long as you didn't lose any working days or duty you were good to go. Everyone had a good laugh on your part. If you were in the clink for murder, child molestation, rape or wife beating the Military left you alone and let the civilian legal system handle it, once the civilian legal system was done with you then the Military booted you out. As far as DUI's go, you went right to Captains Mast as soon as possible no matter what the civilian courts had ruled. Up until the late 90's a DUI was a bad thing but not a career ender. In fact you had to have at least one DUI and a stint in Drydock in order to make Chief. 
These days, not so much. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:29:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually that came to mind after I submitted my post and makes more sense. Ugh. Gross.  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My 1stSgt turned over someone from my unit to the local police and told him that if he ever saw him again he would kill him. It was bad and I won't elaborate. Tease. Probably caught him fucking his wife? My guess is kid diddler. Actually that came to mind after I submitted my post and makes more sense. Ugh. Gross. It was something like that, but worse. If I ever see the fucker I'll be tempted to end him. He'll be away for a long long time. There are ex-Marines.
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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:34:01 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a bit more complex than that, and the second part of that is incorrect completely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. It's a bit more complex than that, and the second part of that is incorrect completely. You should notify Congress immediately. 809. ART. 9. IMPOSITION OF RESTRAINT
(a) Arrest is the restraint of a person by an order, not imposed as a punishment for an offense, directing him to remain within certain specified limits. Confinement is the physical restraint of a person. (b) An enlisted member may be ordered into arrest or confinement by any commissioned officer by an order, oral or written, delivered in person or through other persons subject to this chapter. A commanding officer may authorize warrant officers, petty officers, or noncommissioned officers to order enlisted members of his command or subject to his authority into arrest or confinement. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 9:56:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. There was a case a decade or two back (probably two, it may have been in the early '90's when I read about it in _Army Times_) where several senior officers were convicted of dereliction of duty for failing to intervene in a dispute between two men who were obviously military and which resulted in one of them being killed or seriously injured. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 10:09:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There was a case a decade or two back (probably two, it may have been in the early '90's when I read about it in _Army Times_) where several senior officers were convicted of dereliction of duty for failing to intervene in a dispute between two men who were obviously military and which resulted in one of them being killed or seriously injured. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. There was a case a decade or two back (probably two, it may have been in the early '90's when I read about it in _Army Times_) where several senior officers were convicted of dereliction of duty for failing to intervene in a dispute between two men who were obviously military and which resulted in one of them being killed or seriously injured. Yeah, it's a tricky situation. If you don't KNOW that they're in the military, then you can't really act. Obviously if you believe they might be, it's your duty to ask them if they are, and if they respond in the affirmative to take the necessary actions. I knew a Major that watched a soldier drink heavily at a bar, then go outside, get in his car and start it up. He walked up to the car, knocked on the window, said, "Hey there, my name is Major K., are you in the Army?" "Yes sir." "Great, well I'm placing you under arrest for driving while intoxicated, go ahead and hop out of your car and I'll drive you back to your unit." I've never been in such a situation, but it raises a lot of questions in my mind. What if the soldier doesn't want to comply? Obviously you'd be justified in using force to detain him, but what if that wasn't a viable option? Would the MPs come off post to assist? I can't imagine that civilian authorities would be under any obligation to help you make an arrest under the UCMJ. Any JAG officers around to answer these burning questions? |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 10:09:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She wasn't either of those if she was a Navy LT. She had no authority to order civilian law enforcement to effect an arrest. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. She wasn't either of those if she was a Navy LT. She had no authority to order civilian law enforcement to effect an arrest. All Commissioned Officers have the power to detain enlisted personnel. But this story is full of holes anyway. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 10:10:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's a bit more complex than that, and the second part of that is incorrect completely. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. It's a bit more complex than that, and the second part of that is incorrect completely. Detain, not arrest. If we are using the civilian analog definitions. An Officer may issue a lawful order. Arrest is not "taking into custody" as in the civilian world. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 10:36:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should notify Congress immediately. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. It's a bit more complex than that, and the second part of that is incorrect completely. You should notify Congress immediately. 809. ART. 9. IMPOSITION OF RESTRAINT
(a) Arrest is the restraint of a person by an order, not imposed as a punishment for an offense, directing him to remain within certain specified limits. Confinement is the physical restraint of a person. (b) An enlisted member may be ordered into arrest or confinement by any commissioned officer by an order, oral or written, delivered in person or through other persons subject to this chapter. A commanding officer may authorize warrant officers, petty officers, or noncommissioned officers to order enlisted members of his command or subject to his authority into arrest or confinement. Again, it's more complex than that. An officer running around showing her shiny NSF badge to a civilian police officer and ordering him to cuff a Sailor is outside of her authority. And the only person who can delegate that authority, as clearly stated in section b of article 9 which you posted, is the Commanding Officer, not any commissioned officer as you stated. |
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Posted: 8/12/2013 10:37:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All Commissioned Officers have the power to detain enlisted personnel. But this story is full of holes anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. She wasn't either of those if she was a Navy LT. She had no authority to order civilian law enforcement to effect an arrest. All Commissioned Officers have the power to detain enlisted personnel. But this story is full of holes anyway. Yep. The point I was making from the beginning is that she does not have the authority to order a civilian LEO to arrest (or detain or anything else) anyone. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 5:25:08 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. The point I was making from the beginning is that she does not have the authority to order a civilian LEO to arrest (or detain or anything else) anyone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. She wasn't either of those if she was a Navy LT. She had no authority to order civilian law enforcement to effect an arrest. All Commissioned Officers have the power to detain enlisted personnel. But this story is full of holes anyway. Yep. The point I was making from the beginning is that she does not have the authority to order a civilian LEO to arrest (or detain or anything else) anyone. Concur. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 5:45:04 AM EDT
[#16]
Former Chief of Justice here.
It really depends on the situation. DUI's were one of my pet peeves, particularly on post DUIs. It was when I became convinced Commanding Officers should not have a role in the Military Justice system. Most often though we would let it play out and see what happened. Usually people were not getting into trouble to the point where they were staying in jail so the lost time issue was not particularly salient. People should not be confused about double jeopardy though; it only applies to the same sovereign. The state court can convict you of whatever crime and then I, as the military (a federal sovereign) can come along and prosecute you for the exact same thing. Now as a practical matter we don't - it is generally against policy to do so because it lacks fundamental fairness. Of course every Commander on the block thought they should just to prove what a badass they are. See my previous comment re the MJ system. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 5:45:46 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All Commissioned Officers have the power to detain enlisted personnel. But this story is full of holes anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. She wasn't either of those if she was a Navy LT. She had no authority to order civilian law enforcement to effect an arrest. All Commissioned Officers have the power to detain enlisted personnel. But this story is full of holes anyway. Yeah - the story did not go down like that. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 6:57:33 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Former Chief of Justice here. It really depends on the situation. DUI's were one of my pet peeves, particularly on post DUIs. It was when I became convinced Commanding Officers should not have a role in the Military Justice system. Most often though we would let it play out and see what happened. Usually people were not getting into trouble to the point where they were staying in jail so the lost time issue was not particularly salient. People should not be confused about double jeopardy though; it only applies to the same sovereign. The state court can convict you of whatever crime and then I, as the military (a federal sovereign) can come along and prosecute you for the exact same thing. Now as a practical matter we don't - it is generally against policy to do so because it lacks fundamental fairness. Of course every Commander on the block thought they should just to prove what a badass they are. See my previous comment re the MJ system. Do not concur. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 7:28:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do not concur. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Former Chief of Justice here. It really depends on the situation. DUI's were one of my pet peeves, particularly on post DUIs. It was when I became convinced Commanding Officers should not have a role in the Military Justice system. Most often though we would let it play out and see what happened. Usually people were not getting into trouble to the point where they were staying in jail so the lost time issue was not particularly salient. People should not be confused about double jeopardy though; it only applies to the same sovereign. The state court can convict you of whatever crime and then I, as the military (a federal sovereign) can come along and prosecute you for the exact same thing. Now as a practical matter we don't - it is generally against policy to do so because it lacks fundamental fairness. Of course every Commander on the block thought they should just to prove what a badass they are. See my previous comment re the MJ system. Do not concur. What do you mean? The highlighted part? It's Blackletter law - The Case of MSG Timothy Hennis For the TL/DR crowd - SGT accused of raping and murdering a woman and killing her two daughters. Convicted by NC court, but conviction overturned on appeal and acquitted at retrial. Brought back into the Army served till retirement. REcalled from retirement to be tried by Courts-Martial when more evidence came to light. Now at the USDB. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 11:31:32 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do you mean? The highlighted part? It's Blackletter law - The Case of MSG Timothy Hennis For the TL/DR crowd - SGT accused of raping and murdering a woman and killing her two daughters. Convicted by NC court, but conviction overturned on appeal and acquitted at retrial. Brought back into the Army served till retirement. REcalled from retirement to be tried by Courts-Martial when more evidence came to light. Now at the USDB. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Former Chief of Justice here. It really depends on the situation. DUI's were one of my pet peeves, particularly on post DUIs. It was when I became convinced Commanding Officers should not have a role in the Military Justice system. Most often though we would let it play out and see what happened. Usually people were not getting into trouble to the point where they were staying in jail so the lost time issue was not particularly salient. People should not be confused about double jeopardy though; it only applies to the same sovereign. The state court can convict you of whatever crime and then I, as the military (a federal sovereign) can come along and prosecute you for the exact same thing. Now as a practical matter we don't - it is generally against policy to do so because it lacks fundamental fairness. Of course every Commander on the block thought they should just to prove what a badass they are. See my previous comment re the MJ system. Do not concur. What do you mean? The highlighted part? It's Blackletter law - The Case of MSG Timothy Hennis For the TL/DR crowd - SGT accused of raping and murdering a woman and killing her two daughters. Convicted by NC court, but conviction overturned on appeal and acquitted at retrial. Brought back into the Army served till retirement. REcalled from retirement to be tried by Courts-Martial when more evidence came to light. Now at the USDB. 2006, That's before the double jeapoardy rules I referred to were updated. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 11:38:48 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. The point I was making from the beginning is that she does not have the authority to order a civilian LEO to arrest (or detain or anything else) anyone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You could have told "LT something" to go fuck herself, she was completely outside her authority and jurisdiction to order you to arrest them. Yes, but as an officer of CID/NCIS (only badge carriers in the military generally) she could have detained them herself lawfully and requested assistance from the OP. CID/NCIS officers have lawful powers of detaining any military member pretty much anywhere. She wasn't either of those if she was a Navy LT. She had no authority to order civilian law enforcement to effect an arrest. All Commissioned Officers have the power to detain enlisted personnel. But this story is full of holes anyway. Yep. The point I was making from the beginning is that she does not have the authority to order a civilian LEO to arrest (or detain or anything else) anyone. I think we're all in agreement there. So what recourse does a military officer have if they detain someone in the commission of a crime and that individual doesn't go along with the detention? Just advise them that they're violating more articles every minute they're not complying? |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 11:39:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, it's more complex than that. An officer running around showing her shiny NSF badge to a civilian police officer and ordering him to cuff a Sailor is outside of her authority. And the only person who can delegate that authority, as clearly stated in section b of article 9 which you posted, is the Commanding Officer, not any commissioned officer as you stated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Any commissioned officer in the United States military has the lawful authority to arrest any enlisted member pretty much anywhere. He\she may also delegate that authority to an NCO or WO. Ref. Article 9 of the UCMJ. It's a bit more complex than that, and the second part of that is incorrect completely. You should notify Congress immediately. 809. ART. 9. IMPOSITION OF RESTRAINT
(a) Arrest is the restraint of a person by an order, not imposed as a punishment for an offense, directing him to remain within certain specified limits. Confinement is the physical restraint of a person. (b) An enlisted member may be ordered into arrest or confinement by any commissioned officer by an order, oral or written, delivered in person or through other persons subject to this chapter. A commanding officer may authorize warrant officers, petty officers, or noncommissioned officers to order enlisted members of his command or subject to his authority into arrest or confinement. Again, it's more complex than that. An officer running around showing her shiny NSF badge to a civilian police officer and ordering him to cuff a Sailor is outside of her authority. And the only person who can delegate that authority, as clearly stated in section b of article 9 which you posted, is the Commanding Officer, not any commissioned officer as you stated. Yeah, I wrote that pretty ambiguously now that I look at it. 
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Posted: 8/13/2013 11:44:05 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2006, That's before the double jeapoardy rules I referred to were updated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Former Chief of Justice here. It really depends on the situation. DUI's were one of my pet peeves, particularly on post DUIs. It was when I became convinced Commanding Officers should not have a role in the Military Justice system. Most often though we would let it play out and see what happened. Usually people were not getting into trouble to the point where they were staying in jail so the lost time issue was not particularly salient. People should not be confused about double jeopardy though; it only applies to the same sovereign. The state court can convict you of whatever crime and then I, as the military (a federal sovereign) can come along and prosecute you for the exact same thing. Now as a practical matter we don't - it is generally against policy to do so because it lacks fundamental fairness. Of course every Commander on the block thought they should just to prove what a badass they are. See my previous comment re the MJ system. Do not concur. What do you mean? The highlighted part? It's Blackletter law - The Case of MSG Timothy Hennis For the TL/DR crowd - SGT accused of raping and murdering a woman and killing her two daughters. Convicted by NC court, but conviction overturned on appeal and acquitted at retrial. Brought back into the Army served till retirement. REcalled from retirement to be tried by Courts-Martial when more evidence came to light. Now at the USDB. 2006, That's before the double jeapoardy rules I referred to were updated. I'm sorry - I was only a chief of justice and a practicing attorney. Seriously though WTF are you talking about - there has been no change on this issue. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 12:17:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what recourse does a military officer have if they detain someone in the commission of a crime and that individual doesn't go along with the detention? Just advise them that they're violating more articles every minute they're not complying? An Officer may physically detain someone subject to their orders if they attempt to flee. But in practice, yes you add specifications of disobeying a lawful order. Depending on the offense, it may not be worth risking a phyical confrontation. Especially if you have the individual's name and/or ID card. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 12:20:02 PM EDT
[#25]
if its multiple felonies, they let the civilians hold on to your ass, they charge you as AWOL/Deserter, and when you get "released" from civilian prison you go straight to .mil custody and get tried by them. This is the case for at least one sailor i know of.
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Posted: 8/13/2013 12:24:03 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm sorry - I was only a chief of justice and a practicing attorney. Seriously though WTF are you talking about - there has been no change on this issue. Well I stayed in a Holiday Inn. I'm speaking of the change in practice from a few years ago not to prosecute under the UCMJ any case prosecuted under civilian authority due to fears of double jeopardy appeals/objections. Maybe the Navy is different, I can't speak to the practice of the Army. Perhaps, I'm not reading the term "can" vs. "in practice" correctly. I have several active cases right now that fit this situation, and we have deferred any action until the civilian system has completed theirs. ETA: Thanks by the way, I need to double check my understanding with my JAG. EETA: Thanks again. I consulted with my JAG and I misunderstood our practice as a change in law. So I give myself  of .
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Posted: 8/13/2013 12:30:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I was in, you got fucked twice. First by the civvies, then by Uncle Sam.  This. Some commands with shitbag senior enlisted seem to delight in hanging their guys out to dry even if civvie court finds them righteous. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 12:41:14 PM EDT
[#28]
If it's something major, that your 1st Sgt can't come and get you, you can be pretty fucked. If you can't make bail, or can't leave the PD's jurisdiction because of a trial, you can end up being AWOL.
I had a little incident one time when I was on leave but I was able to get attached TDY to an Army unit nearby, totally outside my MOS, so I could attend the trial of someone that shot me. And also answer for charges of assaulting the guy who shot me (long story, don't ask )
Short story: There were charges against me, so I couldn't return to my unit, without ending up with a warrant for my arrest. If I had not been able to get attached TDY to the unit nearby, I would have been AWOL when my leave was up and I didn't return to my unit. Kind of a catch 22 but it worked out ok for me in the end. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 1:09:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it's something major, that your 1st Sgt can't come and get you, you can be pretty fucked. If you can't make bail, or can't leave the PD's jurisdiction because of a trial, you can end up being AWOL. I had a little incident one time when I was on leave but I was able to get attached TDY to an Army unit nearby, totally outside my MOS, so I could attend the trial of someone that shot me. And also answer for charges of assaulting the guy who shot me (long story, don't ask )Short story: There were charges against me, so I couldn't return to my unit, without ending up with a warrant for my arrest. If I had not been able to get attached TDY to the unit nearby, I would have been AWOL when my leave was up and I didn't return to my unit. Kind of a catch 22 but it worked out ok for me in the end. One of my friends did Cadet Troop Leader Training while he was in ROTC, where, after Advanced Camp, he went to an active duty unit for experience with a real unit before commissioning (although he was already an SMP cadet, so had experience with Guard units). He reported in, company commander said "Great, platoon leader Schmoe is going on leave, you're acting platoon leader!". Got a call one night to pack a bag and head over to the MP station, one of the Joes in the unit had gotten in trouble while on leave, seems he was upset that an ATM would not let him withdraw money, so he deposited a grenade or arty simulator in the deposit chute, so friend got to take two MP's and go sign for the guy... |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 1:12:30 PM EDT
[#30]
As others have already said, it depends upon the circumstances.
We had a boiler tech punch out a bar girl in Olongapo. The local police arrested him, and he was going to miss ships movement. The USN wasn't going to spend a dime on him so, we took up a collection from the ships crew. As the collateral duty ships legal officer, I took the money and had to pay off the local cops and the bar girl. In the end, they dropped charges. It cost about $250-300 but, the BT went back to the ship. A year later, we went into the shipyard in Long Beach. One of my boatswains mates got dunk and into a fight. The Long Beach PD threw him in the pen, and called us. I went downtown to pick the BM3 up. He was still hung over but, the police released him to me. I asked if he had to make a court appearance, and was told just to get him out of there. We covered for him back on the ship since, he was normally a competent sailor. Never heard about it again. |
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Posted: 8/13/2013 2:25:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As others have already said, it depends upon the circumstances. We had a boiler tech punch out a bar girl in Olongapo. The local police arrested him, and he was going to miss ships movement. The USN wasn't going to spend a dime on him so, we took up a collection from the ships crew. As the collateral duty ships legal officer, I took the money and had to pay off the local cops and the bar girl. In the end, they dropped charges. It cost about $250-300 but, the BT went back to the ship. A year later, we went into the shipyard in Long Beach. One of my boatswains mates got dunk and into a fight. The Long Beach PD threw him in the pen, and called us. I went downtown to pick the BM3 up. He was still hung over but, the police released him to me. I asked if he had to make a court appearance, and was told just to get him out of there. We covered for him back on the ship since, he was normally a competent sailor. Never heard about it again. I learned one of the little known facts on my last deployment. When the carrier pulls into a port, the JAG has a satchel full of cash and he stays in town and in touch with the shore patrol. Whenever there is an incident, fight in a bar, etc., his job is to arrive on the scene and pay off the owner and other parties so they won't file charges. |
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