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Posted: 5/22/2015 6:58:05 PM EDT
Cliff notes version: The bulk of the bad press surrounding the F-35 is coming from potential competitors in Europe and Asia who want to be able to sell their own aircraft to foreign customers. In actuality, the F-35 is going to be a game changing weapon that nobody else (including Russia) can hope to match. It is simply on another level. He also suggests this is why the F-22 production was stopped at 187 aircraft, as even its technology lagged far behind that of the F-35s systems.
It is pretty interesting to hear what an actual Russian military expert thinks of the aircraft after years of being trolled by the typical "Russia strong!" retards that totally discount what a difference maker the systems going into the F-35 really are. 
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Posted: 5/22/2015 6:59:24 PM EDT
[#1]
Do you fly or work with the f35? Between the avatar and this
Edit....avatar is not an f35 |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 6:59:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Merica Bitches
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:04:59 PM EDT
[#3]
He just wants us to make more subpar 35s instead of better aircraft.....I'm not buying it russkie.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:14:52 PM EDT
[#4]
That guy has an uncanny resemblance to the orange cat in that one meme I cannot remember the name of...
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:16:16 PM EDT
[#5]
It better be the best damn plane that has ever taken to the air.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:16:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Wow, all that proves is how misinformed and clueless the Russians are. I guess it's good that they think it is better then it is?
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:18:22 PM EDT
[#7]
What does this guy know? GD knows better.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:20:09 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That guy has an uncanny resemblance to the orange cat in that one meme I cannot remember the name of... 
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:20:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does this guy know? GD knows better. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:20:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It better be the best damn plane that has ever taken to the air. It's not. Not even by a long shot. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:20:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It better be the best damn plane that has ever taken to the air. This. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:22:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Obviously can't be right......I mean everyone knows the Russians are planning to take Kiev, Warsaw, Paris, London and the entire US in that order at
any time.......... |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:22:37 PM EDT
[#13]
That's actually precisely what I would expect.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:28:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Well, I watched (read) the whole thing. I didn't really get much out of him calling it that much of a game changer. What I did get out of it is that both countries are still engaged in an expensive arms race that will probably come close to bankrupting both. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:31:13 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you fly or work with the f35? Between the avatar and this His avatar is a Raptor. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:36:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obviously can't be right......I mean everyone knows the Russians are planning to take Kiev, Warsaw, Paris, London and the entire US in that order at any time.......... Still carrying Russian water I see. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:38:03 PM EDT
[#17]
So the F35 is better than the F22 at air superiority?
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:45:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Governments grow by generating fear.
We use the Chinese, Russians, Iran, and ISIS, to scare our taxpayers, and they use us to scare theirs. The US has the most powerful military on the planet. No nation-state could, or would, challenge us. This expert seems to be trying to drum up support for more investment in the Russian military, and he's using the US to scare them. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:46:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the F35 is better than the F22 at air superiority? Eta: besides, it seems like missile systems provide air superiority more than platforms, so who knows... Eta2: talking out of my ass, drinking ahead of Memoeial Day, so ignore me. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:50:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Also, the aircraft flies a helluva lot better than most people give it credit for. Below is a translation from Norwegian to English which sums up the Norwegian test pilot's thoughts about the flying characteristics of the F-35 compared to the F-16 which he also flew.
Pierre Spey and other critics have pointed out that the F-35 is not as fast or maneuverable as modern Russian fighter. In a previous section I argued that the performance of the F-16 at air display is theoretical and not available in a war situation. Combat aircraft like the F-16 carries the load out. This reduces the practical range, speed, maneuverability and maximum altitude. (This also applies to your opponent's aircraft, which carries the load out).
F-35 will have a performance with weapons that far exceeds what we have with the F-16 today. With the F-35, we get more of all this, compared to what we are used to today. To discover how much more was a positive surprise for me. In full war equipment operates F-35 effortlessly 10,000 to 15,000 feet higher than our F-16 can, without using afterburner. The speed in 'cruises' is without further 50 to 80 knots higher. In the F-16, I must use afterburner and take running speed before a missile shot. F-35 "cruiser" both faster and higher. Therefore, I am ready to shoot far anytime. F-35 also has more fuel than we are accustomed to, it carries the load inside and is not as dependent on afterburner. Therefore we are left with more range than the F-16 and similar aircraft can achieve. "Combat radius" for the F-35 is between 30% and 70% longer than we get with the F-16! The extra range comes in handy in our elongated country. Range may alternatively be replaced in endurance over a given area. This is useful for our little organization, which disposes tanker and relies on versatility in all aspects. http://blogg.regjeringen.no/kampfly/2015/04/20/moderne-luftkamp-the-right-stuff-top-gun-eller-noe-helt-annet/#more-1050 By all accounts of people who have flown it, the F-35 is going to perform much like an F-16 in terms of acceleration and turn like the F-16 at higher speeds. Meanwhile, the F-35 is going to handle as well at low speeds and high angles of attack as the F-18 family of aircraft. That is about the best of both worlds. Test pilots have already taken the A model to +9G and -3G without any issues and pulled 110 degrees AoA. That is tremendous agility any way you wanna slice it. So a dog it is not. The F-35 will be able to perform with a useful internal combat load much like a clean F-16 or F-18 can perform. So for those who say the F-35 and its "mere" top speed of Mach 1.6 won't cut it, consider for a moment that the F-35 is rated to perform at this speed and at 9Gs while actually carrying weapons. An F-16 with external pylons and a complement of Slammers, Sidewinders and/or bombs isn't going to be able to do that. Nor will other 4th generation fighters that carry their stores externally. A Flanker may have an advertised top speed in excess of Mach 2. But that is in clean configuration. These aircraft don't fly into combat clean. So you have an aircraft that handles much like a clean F-16/F-18 while carrying internal stores, that also incorporates low observables technology and has the sort of sensors and data fusion that are far more advanced than what went into the F-22. Yeah, I'm struggling to see what is so terrible about the F-35. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:51:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That guy has an uncanny resemblance to the orange cat in that one meme I cannot remember the name of... http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/003/629/1282839532626.jpg?1282841656 Close. I have been trying to find it.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:55:04 PM EDT
[#22]
For comparison, here is what LtCol David "Chip" Berke USMC has to say about the F-35.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxK6O5--9Z0 |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 7:59:17 PM EDT
[#23]
I'm in the minority in opining that despite the horrifying development and procurement process and costs, that it's going to be a good plane not a giant smoking turd.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:00:26 PM EDT
[#24]
A Russian could tell me it was Tuesday on a Tuesday, and I still would not believe him.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:03:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Fucking GD experts. Everyone knows more about everything than people with the actual clearance and need to know.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:08:22 PM EDT
[#26]
Never let the enemy know what you have until he is in your gun sights. Basic military strategy gentlemen. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:08:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Definitely respect CH's opinion. Here to learn more
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:09:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, the aircraft flies a helluva lot better than most people give it credit for. Below is a translation from Norwegian to English which sums up the Norwegian test pilot's thoughts about the flying characteristics of the F-35 compared to the F-16 which he also flew. By all accounts of people who have flown it, the F-35 is going to perform much like an F-16 in terms of acceleration and turn like the F-16 at higher speeds. Meanwhile, the F-35 is going to handle as well at low speeds and high angles of attack as the F-18 family of aircraft. That is about the best of both worlds. Test pilots have already taken the A model to +9G and -3G without any issues and pulled 110 degrees AoA. That is tremendous agility any way you wanna slice it. So a dog it is not. The F-35 will be able to perform with a useful internal combat load much like a clean F-16 or F-18 can perform. So for those who say the F-35 and its "mere" top speed of Mach 1.6 won't cut it, consider for a moment that the F-35 is rated to perform at this speed and at 9Gs while actually carrying weapons. An F-16 with external pylons and a complement of Slammers, Sidewinders and/or bombs isn't going to be able to do that. Nor will other 4th generation fighters that carry their stores externally. A Flanker may have an advertised top speed in excess of Mach 2. But that is in clean configuration. These aircraft don't fly into combat clean. So you have an aircraft that handles much like a clean F-16/F-18 while carrying internal stores, that also incorporates low observables technology and has the sort of sensors and data fusion that are far more advanced than what went into the F-22. Yeah, I'm struggling to see what is so terrible about the F-35. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also, the aircraft flies a helluva lot better than most people give it credit for. Below is a translation from Norwegian to English which sums up the Norwegian test pilot's thoughts about the flying characteristics of the F-35 compared to the F-16 which he also flew. Pierre Spey and other critics have pointed out that the F-35 is not as fast or maneuverable as modern Russian fighter. In a previous section I argued that the performance of the F-16 at air display is theoretical and not available in a war situation. Combat aircraft like the F-16 carries the load out. This reduces the practical range, speed, maneuverability and maximum altitude. (This also applies to your opponent's aircraft, which carries the load out).
F-35 will have a performance with weapons that far exceeds what we have with the F-16 today. With the F-35, we get more of all this, compared to what we are used to today. To discover how much more was a positive surprise for me. In full war equipment operates F-35 effortlessly 10,000 to 15,000 feet higher than our F-16 can, without using afterburner. The speed in 'cruises' is without further 50 to 80 knots higher. In the F-16, I must use afterburner and take running speed before a missile shot. F-35 "cruiser" both faster and higher. Therefore, I am ready to shoot far anytime. F-35 also has more fuel than we are accustomed to, it carries the load inside and is not as dependent on afterburner. Therefore we are left with more range than the F-16 and similar aircraft can achieve. "Combat radius" for the F-35 is between 30% and 70% longer than we get with the F-16! The extra range comes in handy in our elongated country. Range may alternatively be replaced in endurance over a given area. This is useful for our little organization, which disposes tanker and relies on versatility in all aspects. http://blogg.regjeringen.no/kampfly/2015/04/20/moderne-luftkamp-the-right-stuff-top-gun-eller-noe-helt-annet/#more-1050 By all accounts of people who have flown it, the F-35 is going to perform much like an F-16 in terms of acceleration and turn like the F-16 at higher speeds. Meanwhile, the F-35 is going to handle as well at low speeds and high angles of attack as the F-18 family of aircraft. That is about the best of both worlds. Test pilots have already taken the A model to +9G and -3G without any issues and pulled 110 degrees AoA. That is tremendous agility any way you wanna slice it. So a dog it is not. The F-35 will be able to perform with a useful internal combat load much like a clean F-16 or F-18 can perform. So for those who say the F-35 and its "mere" top speed of Mach 1.6 won't cut it, consider for a moment that the F-35 is rated to perform at this speed and at 9Gs while actually carrying weapons. An F-16 with external pylons and a complement of Slammers, Sidewinders and/or bombs isn't going to be able to do that. Nor will other 4th generation fighters that carry their stores externally. A Flanker may have an advertised top speed in excess of Mach 2. But that is in clean configuration. These aircraft don't fly into combat clean. So you have an aircraft that handles much like a clean F-16/F-18 while carrying internal stores, that also incorporates low observables technology and has the sort of sensors and data fusion that are far more advanced than what went into the F-22. Yeah, I'm struggling to see what is so terrible about the F-35. I'll just toss in "Link-16" and "Aegis Combat System" and "drones". The F-35 is going to do a lot of bitchen stuff that no other FIGHTER / ATTACK aircraft has done. When the F-22's avionics suite is updated to F-35 specs it's going to be an awesome fighter. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:14:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For comparison, here is what LtCol David "Chip" Berke USMC has to say about the F-35. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxK6O5--9Z0 Oh, look, an actual expert. But lets dismiss his opinion for those that dont fly anything, or just hate all things new. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:22:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Interesting.
Just an observation (not what I think of the F-35) is that US planners thought the MiG-25 was a game changer instead of the raped ape fast POS it was. The F-35 will not be a POS. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:28:50 PM EDT
[#31]
The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact.
The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:39:55 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact. The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. I've got another fact for you; neither the F-15 or the F-16 have ever approached those speeds in combat, and likely never will. Unlike the F-15's Mach 2.5 and the F-16's Mach 2.0, the F-35's Mach 1.6 is operationally relevant. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:41:03 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the F35 is better than the F22 at air superiority? The F-35 is a war plane. Fitted with the right missiles and integrated into all of our forces, it kills in the air, at sea, and on land. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:42:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fucking GD experts. Everyone knows more about everything than people with the actual clearance and need to know. +1 CFII, you are one of the few posters that I stop and read your posts. You aren't an emotional keyboard pounder. The amount of training that our guys go through alone, is far and beyond what anybody outside the military appreciates. Our "normal & everyday" equipment is just as impressive. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:44:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact. The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. Speaking of science, check out what drag does to your numbers. Look at some pictures of what configurations F-15s etc go into combat with. Now look at the JSF. If an F-15 ever did Mach 2.5 (I have my doubts but Ill push the I-believe button) then it was on a Pro or test flight n a slick configuration and I highly doubt in level flight. A/A intercepts are most certainly not run at those speeds. The JSF could be faster but it is likely fast enough. Fast mostly counts when discussing "running away from shit" speeds. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:44:42 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact. The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. That's what's so awesome about the F22. IF / WHEN stealth is compromised it's still a peerless adversary. "You're never going to get very far in air warfare in an aircraft a lot slower than the enemy." Roland Beamont. As much as LM PR would like you to think otherwise the basics still apply. Speed is STILL life. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:44:42 PM EDT
[#37]
The F-35 will turn with anything in the air.
The US Department of Defense's decision to relax the sustained turn performance of all three variants of the F-35 was revealed earlier this month in the Pentagon's Director of Operational Test and Evaluation 2012 report. Turn performance for the US Air Force's F-35A was reduced from 5.3 sustained g's to 4.6 sustained g's. The F-35B had its sustained g's cut from five to 4.5 g's, while the US Navy variant had its turn performance truncated from 5.1 to five sustained g's. Acceleration times from Mach 0.8 to Mach 1.2 were extended by eight seconds, 16 seconds and 43 seconds for the A, B and C-models respectively. The baseline standard used for the comparison was a clean Lockheed F-16 Block 50 with two wingtip Raytheon AIM-120 AMRAAMs. "What an embarrassment, and there will be obvious tactical implications. Having a maximum sustained turn performance of less than 5g is the equivalent of an [McDonnell Douglas] F-4 or an [Northrop] F-5," another highly experienced fighter pilot says. "[It's] certainly not anywhere near the performance of most fourth and fifth-generation aircraft." http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/reduced-f-35-performance-specifications-may-have-significant-operational-381683/ ........................45 years ago. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:45:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He just wants us to make more subpar 35s instead of better aircraft.....I'm not buying it russkie. They would never engage in false intel operations. Never. Nope. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:45:47 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got another fact for you; neither the F-15 or the F-16 have ever approached those speeds in combat, and likely never will. Unlike the F-15's Mach 2.5 and the F-16's Mach 2.0, the F-35's Mach 1.6 is operationally relevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact. The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. I've got another fact for you; neither the F-15 or the F-16 have ever approached those speeds in combat, and likely never will. Unlike the F-15's Mach 2.5 and the F-16's Mach 2.0, the F-35's Mach 1.6 is operationally relevant. Well, I believe Wikipedia backs me up on this. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:54:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got another fact for you; neither the F-15 or the F-16 have ever approached those speeds in combat, and likely never will. Unlike the F-15's Mach 2.5 and the F-16's Mach 2.0, the F-35's Mach 1.6 is operationally relevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact. The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. I've got another fact for you; neither the F-15 or the F-16 have ever approached those speeds in combat, and likely never will. Unlike the F-15's Mach 2.5 and the F-16's Mach 2.0, the F-35's Mach 1.6 is operationally relevant. You could pretend he's an aeronautical engineer. A really, really, sarcastic one.
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Posted: 5/22/2015 8:54:58 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could pretend he's an aeronautical engineer. A really, really, sarcastic one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact. The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. I've got another fact for you; neither the F-15 or the F-16 have ever approached those speeds in combat, and likely never will. Unlike the F-15's Mach 2.5 and the F-16's Mach 2.0, the F-35's Mach 1.6 is operationally relevant. You could pretend he's an aeronautical engineer. A really, really, sarcastic one. And a lockheed employee/fanboy. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 9:10:23 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His point is that the F-22 is just an expensive fighter. The F-35 is a war plane. Fitted with the right missiles and integrated into all of our forces, it kills in the air, at sea, and on land. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So the F35 is better than the F22 at air superiority? The F-35 is a war plane. Fitted with the right missiles and integrated into all of our forces, it kills in the air, at sea, and on land. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 9:19:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You could pretend he's an aeronautical engineer. A really, really, sarcastic one. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact. The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. I've got another fact for you; neither the F-15 or the F-16 have ever approached those speeds in combat, and likely never will. Unlike the F-15's Mach 2.5 and the F-16's Mach 2.0, the F-35's Mach 1.6 is operationally relevant. You could pretend he's an aeronautical engineer. A really, really, sarcastic one.  I'm just not used to an F-35 thread where the majority of the posts are positive and informative. Guess it threw me into a state of disequilibrium.
It's like FlyNavy pointed out, with a 5000 lb weapons load, the F-35 is essentially the fastest aircraft in our inventory. All of those other Wikipedia Mach numbers, or mph, or whatever inconsistent and bizarre metric they toss around - well those numbers are always for a clean aircraft at 36,000 feet, maybe, maybe with 2 A2A missiles. And the F-35 KPP is 1.6M, 700KCAS (w/ design internal load) - that intersection is around 28,500ft, so it's fairly obvious that we are dealing with a truncated envelope. 800KCAS is your classic "Mach 2 Fighter" limit, and that's pretty much in a Hollywood configuration, maybe 2 A2A missiles. Whereas the 700KCAS limit of the F-35 is with a 5000 pound ordnance load. This table helps to make some sense of these M / KCAS combinations ... 
ETA: Scribbled some lines on the chart to make the handwaving a little easier to follow. When JPO set the KPP of 1.6M/700KCAS with 5000# ordnance, that moves the bar to the right of typical 4th gen aero performance. 
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Posted: 5/22/2015 9:23:05 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like you're saying that the F35 is a better muti role fighter but is not superior to the F22 in a dedicated air superiority role. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So the F35 is better than the F22 at air superiority? The F-35 is a war plane. Fitted with the right missiles and integrated into all of our forces, it kills in the air, at sea, and on land. Exactly. That was the whole construct of the ATF and JSF programs. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 9:27:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For comparison, here is what LtCol David "Chip" Berke USMC has to say about the F-35. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxK6O5--9Z0 The USMC is the only service that gets an upgrade. And everyone else is paying for it. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 9:35:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds like you're saying that the F35 is a better muti role fighter but is not superior to the F22 in a dedicated air superiority role. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So the F35 is better than the F22 at air superiority? The F-35 is a war plane. Fitted with the right missiles and integrated into all of our forces, it kills in the air, at sea, and on land. And that was his point too. So you have to ask yourself. You have F-15's which are very good and F-22's which are even better but very expensive. You only have so much money. Air superiority is great and Air supremacy is wonderful, but will you ever really have time to achieve either? Better to send in the striker's and fuck the living shit out of everything on the ground because that's where the war and the majority of the people fighting it are. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 9:35:54 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It better be the best damn plane that has ever taken to the air. No shit. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 9:42:27 PM EDT
[#48]
The turd with wings may actually be good?
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Posted: 5/22/2015 9:42:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's what's so awesome about the F22. IF / WHEN stealth is compromised it's still a peerless adversary. "You're never going to get very far in air warfare in an aircraft a lot slower than the enemy." Roland Beamont. As much as LM PR would like you to think otherwise the basics still apply. Speed is STILL life. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact. The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. That's what's so awesome about the F22. IF / WHEN stealth is compromised it's still a peerless adversary. "You're never going to get very far in air warfare in an aircraft a lot slower than the enemy." Roland Beamont. As much as LM PR would like you to think otherwise the basics still apply. Speed is STILL life. Payload is death to the enemy. Payload delivered quickly, at long range, accurately, where your people need it is what fighting war is about. |
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Posted: 5/22/2015 9:46:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got another fact for you; neither the F-15 or the F-16 have ever approached those speeds in combat, and likely never will. Unlike the F-15's Mach 2.5 and the F-16's Mach 2.0, the F-35's Mach 1.6 is operationally relevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The F-15 is a 2.5M+ aircraft. Fact. The F-16 is a 2.0M aircraft. Fact. And, the F-35 is only a 1.6M aircraft. Fact. The F-15, 16, 18, and every other fighter 1 reach these max Machs at 36,000 feet. Meanwhile, the sucky F-35 has its max Mach KPP specified at 28,500 feet. Bigger numbers are always better. Always. That's science. And you can't argue against science. Tides come in, tides go out - you can't explain that. I've got another fact for you; neither the F-15 or the F-16 have ever approached those speeds in combat, and likely never will. Unlike the F-15's Mach 2.5 and the F-16's Mach 2.0, the F-35's Mach 1.6 is operationally relevant. LOL that the F-15 2.5 Mach was ever used in real world. I love the Eagle but it is foolish to think the F-35 is a dog or that max speed without a combat load is the end all be all of fighter performance metrics. Raptors kill Eagles like Canuks club baby seals, whacka, whacka, whacka, and not because of any slicked up max speed advantage. F-35s gonna do the same. Whacka, Whacka, Whacka and will be carrying a real bomb load while Whackin. |
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