Happens every day in GD.  Why is this thread any different?

growing up we had both (at the same time) great dane and dobie. dobermans are smart dogs. friend's family had one too and it was a great dog and smart also.

I dont really care for pets and dogs especially but if i ever got a dog, it would most likely be a dobie.

great danes are nice but have all the problems you find in big dogs. the dont live as long as other breeds due to their size. ours got arthritis and we would give it perocdans (old school oxycontin).

*Sigh* I'm feeling sad about the Dobermann breed so I'm going to point out how this breeder is a huge part of the problem.

She claims to breed for temperament, but has ZERO breed specific temperament tests or working titles. The Dobermann is a protection dog. That is the standard that ANY claims of breeding for temperament need to be measured against!! AKC Conformation titles, GCG, etc don't tell us a damn thing about the dogs temperament in reference to his breed specific job! A genuine test of his disposition is a test of how well he can do a job. The Dobermann is not a herder, not a bird dog and not a terrier. The Dobermann is not a multipurpose dog like the GSD. The Dobermann has ONE JOB (personal protection)!

On the dog she is highlighting, you have to go back FIVE (5) generations to find a single SchH title!!!! How in the hell can one claim to breed for temperament when there is no evidence of temperament testing besides ONE title five generations back?!?!?!

The breeder's provided credentials include obedience competition, showing dogs, giving seminars on handling show dog's in the ring and being an AKC Judge. There is nothing wrong with any of that, but NONE of it has a damn thing to do with actual Dobermann temperament (protection work).

If I were a betting man, I'd wager large sums of money that she has never titled, much less competed, with a Dobermann in ANY working(protection) venue.

I don't mean for any of this to come across as a criticism of your dog(s). It sounds like Murphy has been a source of love and enjoyment for you and your family. I'm happy that you've enjoyed 13 years of companionship.

It just saddens me to see breeders with zero evidence of temperament testing making claims about temperament. It's difficult to find a strong nerved Dobermann. If breeders actually tested/selected strong nerved, protection capable dogs the breed wouldn't be in such poor shape. It further frustrates me when these breeders are provided as "good" examples when in reality they have been steadily destroying the breed.

A good Dobermann should be able to do Agility, competitive obedience or just be a pet- provided the owner/handler understands they have a protection dog first and foremost with all the associated responsibilities. Dobermann's should never be purposely bred specifically to be pets that are suitable for any home. That is just wrong.

I respectfully disagree.  This breeder has gone to great lengths to avoid any, even the tiniest, chance of inbreeding or facilitating any genetics problems.  Several of her dogs have gone to cops who did have them trained for personal protection; I also know of at least one who competed in agility.  Why she doesn't advertise that aspect of her line(s), I don't know.  As for strong nerved, mine has subletly threatened a few people and a few dogs, none have tested him any further than the stare and low growl.  We got him because I deployed a lot back then, he's my wife's dog and devotedly so.

Yeah, you hit a little bit of a nerve.  I'd write more but I'm thumb typing on an iPad and I've pretty much exceeded my abilities at his point.  As for Dee Robison, again, I respectfully disagree with your points.  Not many of her lines' offspring are on her website, so your evaluation of her as a breeder is incomplete.  She should do better by her website, but since she doesn't advertise, I guess she never felt the need to.  She's not a personal or family friend, just the person we got our dog from.  I found out about her when two of her dogs were thinking about eating me when I went to buy a car at a guys house north of Spokane.  I had to call the guy for his driveway because I wasn't sure I'd live if I opened the door.  He lived in the boonies and wanted protection dogs.  He told me where he got them.

I'd recommend her dogs for whatever purpose you propose and I'm sure she'd have references and examples.  All her puppies are sold before they're born and she doesn't sell to just anybody.  When Murphy finally passes on (mostly likely this year or next), we'll have already reserved another male.  

Lastly, unless I missed it, you didn't mention or post a picture of your Doberman....

Now my thumbs are really hatin' life.

Some were used, for a bit, by the Marines in the Pacific.  In the book about Chesty Puller, Marine, he stated they had to kill their Dobermans because they went crazy from all the gunfire and artillery/mortar fire and attacked their handlers.  He put that in his official reports (Puller) and later he was "urged" to retract those statements/revise his wording and he refused.

I'm sure yours won't go through combat but it may be a sign of them being "on the edge" compared to other dog breeds bred for similar purposes.

I always got a kick out of the movie, Remo Williams:  The Adventure Begins, where he's "sparring" with the Dobermans in the factory and they keep figuring out ways to get to him everytime he thinks he's outflanked them.  It's a movie, I know, still cool to see them working together to overcome obstacles.

Yeah well, I try to ignore those.
Yes, they fart up a storm and they will clear a room.

Hell, my girl can take a dump on one side of a small back yard and you can easily smell it infect the other side.



A.W.D.

I had one. Very smart. Decent dog, but not my favorite breed.
Like other workong breeds, look for a breeder that has dogs who has worked the dogs and allowed them to prove themselves, their nerves, and their temperament. I got a nervy Doberman when I didn't have a good grasp on what that really meant. I would be more picky about breeders nowadays. Some can be prone to OCD as well.
Great dogs, just not enough for me to get another one.

Pretty much this. I don't know how many times my neighbour's mini pincer tore up one of my childhood dogs.

If you have any type of dog yes you need a godamn fence, its common sense to keep your dog safe.

I don't mean to offend you or your dog. I don't even bear ill will towards the breeder, it's just a case where the information available indicates a prime example of a breeder that is NOT breeding for temperament.

Like many things in life, we don't know what it is that we don't know. A breeder who doesn't train, title and/or compete in the dogs job CANNOT know what is needed from dogs in order to do the work.

Using guns as an example, would you recommend a "gunsmith" that does not test his creations? If someone advertised that they produce 1,000 yard accurate rifles, would you believe them if they had zero long range experience? If all the 'smith's customers never shoot further than 100 yards and the gunsmith has no long range experience himself, what credibility does the 'smith have for building 1000 yard rifles?

Pointing out that some Cops bought dogs from someone to train as their personal dogs as evidence that the dogs are good, is no different from saying that since some cops buy reconditioned washing machines from Joe's Appliance store they must be good washers. Unless a cop has vast experience training dogs for a hobby outside work, just being a cop makes him as much of a dog expert as a washing machine expert. Cops can get duped and deceived when buying dogs just like anyone else.

Back to the gun analogy, if a gunsmith has no long range experience himself, you might still consider a rifle from him IF you could see he was using known quality components (ie, barrels from a proven manufacturer, etc). This is roughly the equivalent of having dogs with temperament titles in a pedigree. Nobody with any experience in long range shooting is going to buy from a gunsmith with NO long range knowledge AND who also uses components of unproven quality. A breeder who does not participate in activities involving a breeds job AND who also does not have any proven dogs in their breeding program is no different from a "gunsmith" who doesn't shoot and doesn't use components of a known quality. The guns might be safe, they might be pretty and some might even shoot well, BUT there is zero reason to believe they are 1000 yard accurate rifles. Nobody who understands specialty guns would consider such a "gunsmith" to be legitimate. Nobody who's life, livelihood, family or hobby depended on a long range rifle would buy from that "gunsmith"- UNLESS they didn't know what they don't know....
 
There is a HUGE difference between a gunsmith who has documentation of their knowledge/experience and real world results proving they can apply it, vs a "gunsmith" who doesn't even shoot but has a few customers (including cops) who are happy with their guns.  

The Dobermann breed is dying off as a working dog. Breeders who are not well versed (or don't care) about temperament are killing it. One can make a valid argument that breeders are simply responding to the pet market. GOOD breeders produce what's correct for the breed regardless of the market.  I doubt one person can make a huge difference, but I can try to educate as the opportunity arises.

If you are happy with your dog then I'm happy for you. I don't have any desire to tell someone else what kind of dog they should own. That is a personal decision. What I am frustrated with is the state of the breed. I'm frustrated with breeders who have contributed to the downfall. I'm frustrated with the lack of knowledge regarding correct, breed specific, temperament in all breeds, but especially with the Dobermann because the breed has a special place in my heart.    

Here are a few pics of my Dobermann. He's been dead about three years now. I don't bring him up often in these sorts of discussions because I still miss him every day, plus, the point I try to make isn't a my dog vs someone elses dog issue; the point is that the Dobermann is supposed to have working traits that "breeders" are allowing to die off.

I've have searched on and off for another Dobermann but have not yet found a US breeder that inspires enough confidence. I don't have trustworthy overseas contacts and the fed .gov has made importation of puppies more difficult than it used to be. It's this lack of working Dobermann's in the USA that has me so sad/frustrated.

I very much understand your points, concur on some points regarding breeders (seen lots of destroyed examples of what used to be good working dogs).  I disagree that your assessment can be made from as uninformative a website as I provided.  I don't think we're that far apart actually.

But I still love my dog and trust him to do what he was trained for and for the traits he innately possesses.  Pretty sure he'd kill someone to protect my wife.  Me, he might have to think about it...

(won't be able to see your pictures until I get home tonight (work blocks most pics)

I have had 3.  Bark like crazy when somebody comes in the yard but takes their cue off of you.  Our daughter had 13 girlfriends over all 16-18 years old.  In a few minutes our dog settled down and never barked again at the kids.  Most affectionate dog we have ever had.

Dobes are great dogs. My neighbor had two of them. They were big babies and got along with all the dogs in the area.

As a matter of fact this little bad ass below


Chased Zane through the yard into the back of the mini van.

She scared the crap of of him. Zane took her treat. I'd own one in a heart beat. But man they do leave behind some big land mines lol

I think they look cool after you cut up their ears and lop off their tails.

They look kind of dumb stock.

I won't own one because that's a lot of alteration just for appearances.

Rottweilers just get the tail done and look better IMO. 

GSDs look badass with zero changes.

ETA Looks aside, Dobies are great animals. 

I got a male dobie when I was 10-11 years old. He came from a good breeder, I raised him as my best friend. Named him Baby because that's all he was- a great big baby.
He was super protective of me and anyone in our family, he knew what territory was his, knew when to show his teeth, and when to tackle me and lick me to death. He lived 8 years and died of heart failure.
We got another one (a female) later, she was a good dog but nothing like the first one I had.
I have a gsd now, he's a great dog too. But I will own another Dobie before I die.

Beautiful dags in this thread. I have been without a pet for two years now and viewing this thread has me jonesin for a new pup.

Haha sounds like a funny thread. I wonder what he told his wife? "Honey it's a German greyhound, also known as a racing rottweiler. See the coloration but thinner build?"