Trunk gun: 12 gauge vs. 10/22 - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Trunk gun: 12 gauge vs. 10/22 (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 1/4/2012 7:23:49 AM EDT

[#1]

Neither.

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:09:57 AM EDT

[#2]

Shotgun. Keep it loaded with buck and have a sidesaddle loaded with slugs. If you are engaging targets past 75 yards you are either not acting out of self defense or have plenty of opportunity to get out of dodge. Gun owners seem to have this fantasy that they are going to get into some movie style gunfight with a dozen badguys or be pinned down by some crazy sniper. In the rare event that you do get into an altercation where you need to use a firearm it will likely happen in distances shorter than 25 yards (7 or less if statistics tell us anything).

Prepare for reality, not zombies

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:14:03 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
I don't like the choices either.

AR in 16" or less is just right.

AK is a no-go for me. Probably a stoopid reason, but for most people, the sight of an AK = BG.

That is actually a good point.

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:16:26 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I don't like the choices either.

AR in 16" or less is just right.

AK is a no-go for me. Probably a stoopid reason, but for most people, the sight of an AK = BG.

If it comes to the point I'm swinging that kind of hardware; to hell with what people think. Also, people will freak regardless of what you have. Use what you're proficient with.

It does matter what people think. Some of them may be making a shoot/no shoot decision.

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:20:22 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
So I post a thread asking "which of these two guns til I can save up for an AR or AK," and all the responses are "get an AR or AK!"

Also, I admit a bit of a trick question. A powerful gun I can't shoot very well or practice with much, vs. a gun I shoot very well but isn't very powerful. I would have thought more folks would pick the gun I can shoot better. I understand many of you are choosing for yourself rather than me.

Honestly, about 5 slugs is my daily limit before the splitting headache and flinching make it difficult to get hits. I can stand 10-15 rounds of buckshot, but I don't practice much because it's so unpleasant.

Do you use the low recoil / law enforcement loads? That's what I use.

The simple fact is the .22 lacks punch. Its limited wounding potential is combined with low noise, a bad combo when defending yourself. Keep in mind, much of a guns effectiveness is in its psycological impact, and the sound level is a big part of that.

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:25:05 AM EDT

[#6]

I would go with the shotgun and choose my loads to make it manageable. In real use you won't notice recoil as much but the reduced recoil loads do help you get back on target faster, particularly if you're not in a nice steady shooting stance.
Outside the listed options, an SKS would be my choice for cheap effective firepower. You get a little reach, you get rate of fire, you get durable and you get inexpensive. Heck, you also usually get a bayonet, just in case.

The folding AK's would be nice, but in my state they're a no no so I haven't paid much attention to them. Something like that, with a few mags, makes a big difference in effective firepower in a compact package. Stick it in a gym bag and tuck it somewhere a thief isn't likely to look if they're in a hurry.

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:31:24 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Shotgun. Keep it loaded with buck and have a sidesaddle loaded with slugs. If you are engaging targets past 75 yards you are either not acting out of self defense or have plenty of opportunity to get out of dodge. Gun owners seem to have this fantasy that they are going to get into some movie style gunfight with a dozen badguys or be pinned down by some crazy sniper. In the rare event that you do get into an altercation where you need to use a firearm it will likely happen in distances shorter than 25 yards (7 or less if statistics tell us anything).

Prepare for reality, not zombies

I don't think the stats relaly apply to a trunk gun, which isn't going to be used like a CCW but in the event of SHTF. That said I expect that short range would be the order of the day, but there is some remote possibility on longer range needs.

CHP acquired Mini-14s in the 80s after an officier was outranged by a guy with a rifle. The officier was able to arrest the guy, but they realized a need for longer range then pistols/shotguns provided. Now they use ARs. The initial incident was an outlier, but outliers do occur.

An AR can work well from contact distance out to 400 yards and well beyond. But if the choice is 12 gage vs .22 lr, I'd select 12 gage.

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:34:34 AM EDT

[#8]

Normal person: 12 gauge
Assassin: 22lr sub

Which best fits your profile?

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:43:39 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
I would go with the shotgun and choose my loads to make it manageable. In real use you won't notice recoil as much but the reduced recoil loads do help you get back on target faster, particularly if you're not in a nice steady shooting stance.
Outside the listed options, an SKS would be my choice for cheap effective firepower. You get a little reach, you get rate of fire, you get durable and you get inexpensive. Heck, you also usually get a bayonet, just in case.

The folding AK's would be nice, but in my state they're a no no so I haven't paid much attention to them. Something like that, with a few mags, makes a big difference in effective firepower in a compact package. Stick it in a gym bag and tuck it somewhere a thief isn't likely to look if they're in a hurry.

One problem with AKs is that they are the weapon the bad guys use. Does any US PD use them?

The SKS looks kinda like a "normal" fudd gun, at least without the bayonet and extended mags, but they have been used in lots of police shootings and might be recongnized by the local PD as bad guy guns as much or more so then AKs.

I'm not saying AK and SKSs shouldn't be used, as you point out they are very well suited to the task of trunk gun in many ways. I am saying that you need to consider the optics of how you look.

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:46:40 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

One problem with AKs is that they are the weapon the bad guys use. Does any US PD use them?

The SKS looks kinda like a "normal" fudd gun, at least without the bayonet and extended mags, but they have been used in lots of police shootings and might be recongnized by the local PD as bad guy guns as much or more so then AKs.

I'm not saying AK and SKSs shouldn't be used, as you point out they are very well suited to the task of trunk gun in many ways. I am saying that you need to consider the optics of how you look.

I think you are giving folks WAY too much credit, thinking that they will be able to tell the difference between and AR and an AK in your hands at distance with bullets flying... let alone assign any sort of good/bad "value" to one over the other.

JMHO.

(FTR, I go with ARs over AKs only because I shoot them better –– I have plenty of both.)

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:48:57 AM EDT

[#11]

I cast my vote for "neither".
Personally I think if you can unass the area you should. If your too far out for a pistol shot id say "drive away" is the best option.
If for whatever reason you need to engage something at least get a centerfire rifle. A shotgun isnt going to really give you much more "range" than a pistol unless your shooting slugs and what exactly are you going to do with a .22?

My ideal choice would be something like an sks, M44/38, or other cheap carbine/rifle.

Posted: 1/4/2012 8:55:54 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Does your splitting headache come from not wearing hearing protection?

You also have the option of a 16 or 20 gauge is a 12 is too much for you. I would take a 20ga over a 10/22 for a trunk gun also. Not every shotgun has to be a 12.

20ga with slugs and buck is plenty lethal.

I always wear double hearing protection, plugs and muffs. And I don't have a 20 gauge - by the time I save up to buy one, (or a combat shotgun class) I'm not too far from a PCC, AR, or AK to keep in the trunk.

Not trying to come off as s dick or anything, but if the 12ga is too much gun I would seriously start trying to get rif of it. Either trade for a 20ga or put it up for sale to fund the AK/AR. No reason to keep a gun around that you can't use.

Have you ever shot your 10/22 at 100 yards? I have, and the accuracy blows

. I can chew a 1" hole @ 50 yards, but move out to 100 and I'm lucky to hit a 12"x12" square 50% of the shots due to wind drift, ammo inconsistencies, ect.. I'd rather have shotgun slugs at that range since the accuracy is similar , or even better with the shotgun.

Posted: 1/4/2012 9:00:22 AM EDT

[#13]

For your scenario I'd chose the 12 gauge, no contest.

Posted: 1/4/2012 9:02:42 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I think you are giving folks WAY too much credit, thinking that they will be able to tell the difference between and AR and an AK in your hands at distance with bullets flying... let alone assign any sort of good/bad "value" to one over the other.

I'm thinking mostly in terms of the response by police. I think if you "look right" you will give them vibes that will make them hesitate to shoot, "look wrong" you give the wrong vibes.

To put it another way, I think a guy in a suit who is clean cut might better get away with sing an AK vice the guy who dresses like a cholo and has full sleaves. Everyone profiles.

Posted: 1/4/2012 9:09:05 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I think you are giving folks WAY too much credit, thinking that they will be able to tell the difference between and AR and an AK in your hands at distance with bullets flying... let alone assign any sort of good/bad "value" to one over the other.

I'm thinking mostly in terms of the response by police. I think if you "look right" you will give them vibes that will make them hesitate to shoot, "look wrong" you give the wrong vibes.

To put it another way, I think a guy in a suit who is clean cut might better get away with sing an AK vice the guy who dresses like a cholo and has full sleaves. Everyone profiles.

And I wear suits/business attire 6-7 days a week, so my opinion on this might be jaded.

But if the police show up and you're still wielding a rifle at all, I still contend that the type of rifle (esp. AK vs. AR) is going to make very little difference in their response to you (at least in this neck of the woods).

Posted: 1/4/2012 9:21:16 AM EDT

[#16]

.22s are for practice, not for practical.

Posted: 1/4/2012 9:55:14 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:
12ga. or a battle rifle. I think I will add this one to the trunk as well as the FAL.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m608/archtaan/photobucket-3963-1325623335256.jpg

Now where did you get that...

I bought it at a gunstore.

Posted: 1/4/2012 10:16:58 AM EDT

[#18]

I see trunk guns as all purpose weapons for predators of the four and two legged variety. I don't see a 22 rifle being a good choice against either, and even in a survival situation a shotgun will give you a lot more options. If the recoil is a problem, remember that if you ever have to use it that will be the last thing on your mind, but regardless there are reduced recoil loads that are just as effective at everything but extended range.

Shotgun and 10-15 rounds each of buck, bird and slugs will be able to handle anything that walks or crawls on this hemisphere.

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Posted: 1/4/2012 10:42:07 AM EDT

[#19]

Remington 870 in 20 gauge

7 shots and less recoil than 12 gauge ~$400

Posted: 1/4/2012 12:33:54 PM EDT

[#20]

12 ga with Low Recoil ammo and a little bit of training / practice. If the recoil is too much for you, you might try using a push / pull method of holding it. With your dominant hand on the stock, pull the gun towards your body.. At the same time, with your non-dominant hand on the foreend, pull it away from your body. The competing forces will do a very good job of keeping the gun from moving much at all under recoil. In fact, I can use that method and shoot my 14" 870's with them 2-3" in front of my shoulder, without the gun coming back and hitting my shoulder or coming up and hitting my face.

The first few times you try it, your arms may be a bit sore from exertion, but you'll get used to it quickly.