So based on the thread yesterday and the unbelievable amount of support for PP from GD, I came to a conclusion.
For those of you who are able to sit back and witness this atrocity and  defend it, are no different than those
beheading people in the middle east.  This callous and numb attitude towards a life is incredible.  Fuck...PETA, a very very
liberal organization puts up a bigger stink about the treatment of animals.  Society is without a doubt digressing and
gets dumber by the day.  Watching those videos pisses me off as much as someone going after my 2nd amendment right.
Flame away.

Magua understands very well.

Ha Ha Ha....infowars.  

500 years from now any survivors will wonder why we didn't listen to the prophets.


As for murdering pieces of shit who profit off the deaths of the most vulnerable among us.....hell is forever.

I did not.

You can do as you please i guess.

It's a figure of speech that means that I took precaution.

I accept that the state will prevent me from killing someone when they have done nothing against me.

As for the bold, what are you talking about? You stated earlier that if something resided in you, it was in the sovereign nation of BigeasySnow, and was outside the governance of the United States.
ETA: Misread

I agree.
As sad as it is and as much as I abhor abortion it is settled law.
But the rest of us through our tax dollars should not be doing this.

You know just the other day several parties here,including myself, were engaged in a thread about the GOP dropping social issues.
Shit just like this is why it will probably not happen.
And I'm fine on standing for principles.
But let's also be clear the Democrats are also constantly involved in social issues and promoting them just like they do with PP.

A horse of a different color.

I feel the same way about the state overstepping its authority.

I'm sorry, BES, but murder is ALREADY illegal.

Except, for certain people, it's legal.

How fucked up is that?

Mom gets an abortion, legal.

Someone else kills the baby, murder.

You need to come to the realization that it's not JUST the mother.

The baby is NOT a parasite, nor is it comprised ONLY of the mother's DNA-it is an independent, defenseless human.

ANY other human being in this country is protected from murder by law, even death row inmates, yet a baby is not?



Nick

You had no right to grab my hand.

If I put my finger in your mouth without your consent, you may bite it.

If we both wake up surprised that my finger is somehow in your mouth and you bite it, you're not at fault and neither am I. Ouch. Poor finger, we should have been more careful.

Did YOU use the shrink ray on the diver and teleport him to your uterus?



Nick

It's not about the seamen, it's about the science!

You want us to be more like PETA?

For you, it might be a step up in the right direction.

Nope, I disagree.



I think that if someone put out something really catastrophic (I.E. pictures released of the Kermit Gosnell offices and put in mass media circulation) I think you'd change a lot of hearts and minds.  



I'm very much 'pro-choice', but only to a certain extent.  I think that there's a common sense time limit that you should have to make up your mind to abort or not, and after you've chosen to go past it without making a choice, you have effectively chosen to have the child.  



That being said, I also recognize that in 2015, you also very much have the choice to not become pregnant in the first place.  Abortion should not be used as a last resort method of birth control, in my opinion.  



 

Can we stop trying to prevent liberals from being aborted?   No I get it on a human level and all that but c'mon its mostly future liberals.  Normally I'd be against this but its doing so much good for humanity.

Should you live long enough, you will find that there are no limits to the state's authority.
That condition will be brought to you by those with whom you have allied yourself in your pursuit of "rights" which do not exist in the Constitution.

I'll just reiterate my previous statement on this matter.

Anyone who can't see that this whole situation is seriously fucked needs their moral compass adjusted pronto.

And I think that that's ultimately what's going to happen here.



If these next videos are bad enough to get everyone's attention, I think that there will be a decent push to defund PP.  



Frankly, I don't care who is aborting what or when, but taxpayers shouldn't be paying for it.  Ever.  What you do with your body and anything inside of it is your business, but you should be on your own when it comes to acquiring / paying for it.  



 

I believe your first sentence is right.

Your second is wrong. I have not allied myself with statists, unless you count voting Republican when I'm actually a libertarian. As for rights outside the constitution, yes I do have them. The constitution doesn't give me rights, it enumerates some of my rights. Just because something isn't covered by the constitution doesn't mean it's not a right. The rights are intrinsic and come from the nature of man and man's brain and personhood.

I've ask this of many pro-choicers like yourself.





Who gets to choose for the baby?  When does he/she get to choose?
 

I'm pretty staunchly libertarian in world view. I obviously disagree with you on abortion (and for that matter with the Libertarian party).



I'm going to borrow from your timeline of rights a bit and I'll try to break down my thoughts on the issue and how I believe it should be governed.



First off, a person has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Government should be restricted in nature, most laws aren't needed, the ones that are needed are for preventing one person from physically harming another. IE, prevention and punishment for murder and theft are valid laws I support.



This brings us to the question of who or what is a person. If you have human DNA and a functioning brain you qualify as a person. Level of brain functionality is not important, just because your not smart doesn't remove your rights as a person.



You own your body, that means you can commit suicide if you want, take drugs if you want and refuse medical care if you want. That does not mean you can harm another if you want.



Pregnancy is a known side effect of sex. If you willingly have sex with another person you accept the possibility pregnancy may occur. For a man this involves accepting responsibility for the child and the fact you may be on the hook for 18 years of child support. For a woman this means if you wait until brain activity begins in the fetus you must then carry the person until a point when he/she can be extracted with a reasonable chance of the person surviving.



From the point of sex you have at least 7 weeks until any brain activity starts to occur. At any time you can during that period you can terminate the pregnancy, a person does not exist yet, so there are no rights to be protected.



Once brain activity begins you are then responsible for your new child and your rights start to become slightly and temporarily limited. You have invited this child into your body and therefore must care for it until it is viable outside your body.



Exceptions to the rule:

Self defense - it is permissible to kill the person inside your body in self defense to prevent your own death. This is just cause.

Rape - you are not complicit in starting the pregnancy, as such you did not agree to it's entry and your personal body rights trump the babies life. It still kills the child, but you didn't agree to let the penis in.



Once the baby is outside, you are still giving up some of your personal rights. You must care for your child - at least until you can hand it over to another person who agrees to care for it. IE. It's illegal to dump your baby in the garbage, put it out in the snow or lock it into a closet without food. You can drop it off at the hospital, an orphanage or fire department.



As a man I don't even get the option of giving the baby up. If the woman keeps the baby I'm on the hook for financial support until the child is 18. A financial slave for 18 years, but I agreed to it by putting my penis in.



Once the child is 18 you no longer have to care for him/her. You can put him/her out in the snow and lock the door.



This may be a little long, but hopefully it makes sense. Maybe it won't convince you, but hopefully it will convince someone else.

But, it's just not "your" body anymore now is it.
 

Actually that is not an accurate figure. There have been cases where the unborn child survived, being maimed in the process sometimes.

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If your neighbor was rounding up people and beheading them on his front yard, would you intervene or just complain about it on the internet?

No idea what point you''re trying to make.

Is it yours? What gives you the authority to intervene on the fetus' behalf? What gives you the certainty that it's the fetus' will that its mother's hand be forced?

Even if my body were not just mine, but the fetus' too, you would still have no right to play agent for the fetus.

But the point is moot, because it's still just mine.

Most 'pro-choice' people would be nauseous if they knew what the procedure entailed.

Or a child molester

 

So, in other words, when there is not an abortion an abortion is not 100% effective.

Water is wet.

TRG

 
That's where I sit too.

Kill em all.

The natural right to self defense of a third party.  Same as stopping any other murder.

Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!

It's not murder any more than 'meat is murder'.

Not all killing is murder.

So how is it an intrinsic right for you to kill a fetus that you consented to the creation of?

It's not self defense. So what do you consider the killing of the fetus, especially one that is fully developed and could survive if birthed?

ETA: And if someone forcefully gave a woman an abortion, they would have committed murder.

Cuz mah body, mah rights!

 

Fucking derp

That right there. I don't give a fuck what women do. If they want abortion, cool. If they don't, cool. The only thing I know for sure is they should have the freedom to make the choice themselves. Not have it dictated to them by the .gov. If you have a dick the only time your opinion should matter is if the baby is yours. Point blank that is the ONLY TIME. I don't give a fuck what your religion says. I don't give a fuck if you think it's "morally wrong" that's cool then don't get one yourself. Let others do as they will. That's the cool thing about freedom, the ability to do things others may not agree with. Also as an organ donor your damn fucking right I will harvest the shit out of my relatives, spouses, children, grand children, anyone I care about when they die. Why? Because their parts may save someone else. I can't bring them back to life why the hell would I doom someone else to die because I can't be a fucking man and let them go? And don't say I wouldn't or I'm full of crap because I already tried when my grandmother kicked it but they couldn't salvage anything because of her illness. So yes, if someone has decided they are going to 100% get an abortion, and the fetus is already dead. Why waste what can be used to help people?

Guess what? Your opinion on abortion won't be respected even if the kid is yours.

And hey, if it only matters when it's personally happening to you, then why do you care if someone murders their kid? Why do you care if someone's guns are confiscated when they've done nothing wrong?

The only time your opinion matters is if it's happening to you. So we should stop caring about people getting murdered, or people's rights being infringed.

ETA: Your stance on the subject seems to be similar to this cunt's:


1:25

I cannot believe the number of people here that have no problem with murder. It's unbelievable.

If she does not have the right to choose the fate of the child/fetus, who does?  A doctor?  A judge?   Are we going to force a woman to plead her case to her peers to decide what 'they' think is best?  

What 'right' does a judge or a doctor have to tell another person what choices they are allowed to make?

Do we legalize it only for rape?  Incest?  Life of the mother? Life prospect of the child?

Again, we reach the point of a third party (doctor, judge, jury) being given the 'right' to tell a person what they can/can not choose.  We also force the mother to make public an event in her life (rape, incest) that may have even more dangerous outcomes for her and the child.

If a fetus is seen to be badly formed, with a known genetic disorder that insures 100% blindness, deafness and sensory deprivation, and a guaranteed life filled with wracking spasms, do we force the woman to deliver the child?

Abortion is based upon a choice.  Leave that choice to the one person who is directly involved.

TRG

So why does the father have no say?

anyone who can sit by as these death facilities operate like this and God knows what else are just as guilty.

While I said some things in this thread most of you don't agree with. I did not say that stuff in the quote


 

I think he snipped the quote tree incorrectly. The poster that he was quoting was "xviperx420"

Remember when they did this with ACORN? They shut down and opened with a new name.

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Kinda figured. I just left work where my flame suit is. Don't want to have to turn around

 

 

Tell us more Margaret.