The Artemis Project "NO MORE INNOCENT VICTIMS" - Page 3

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Artemis Project "NO MORE INNOCENT VICTIMS" (Page 3 of 9)

Posted: 12/15/2012 11:34:31 PM EDT

[#1]

OP:
I applaud your effort, I think the Artemis Project is an excellent idea.

I would like to see attitudes in education regarding firearms changed to view firearms in school as normal a piece of safety equipment as fire extinguishers are viewed today.

My suggestion for this project would involve training, most specifically aspects of training involving active shooter scenarios in schools. The training curriculum should involve or at least be conducted in partnership with law enforcement training.

I would suggest both the instructors involved in the Artemis Project and law enforcement instructors collaborate to devise a curriculum that involves both defending a classroom or held position and the procedure that first responders will use when clearing a school.

The idea being that both parties will have the same training to rapidly determine friend from foe.

I would expect without this component to the training there would likely be resistance from law enforcement as the current gun free zone doctrine means that when clearing a school, anyone inside a classroom pointing a gun at the door is a target.

The training should involve a knock and announce procedure with very specific language, and a very specific response.

An ideal training scenario would involve coordinated exercises where the on-location responders (school staff, faculty and campus security) would hold positions within a mock school with someone playing the part of an active shooter while law enforcement conducts enter and secure drills.

It is tempting to train on-location responders to aggressively engage an active shooter but I think they should be properly trained to rapidly assess the threat, use cover and evacuate students when possible, or barricade and defend a position from the shooter, and only engage as last resort.

I certainly wish this project luck- I look forward to supporting it in whatever ways I can.

Posted: 12/15/2012 11:38:34 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
You will get endless support from us, you will get an instant cold shoulder once you start talking to the people you are wanting to implement this toward.

Unfortunately, I think this.

Before I started contracting over here I worked at a school district in Houston doing IT support. I had 6 middle schools assigned to me. I can think of very few people on any of those campuses who would be willing to do that. Of course there are some who would and I FULLY support this effort but I feel it would be an uphill battle BUT one well worth the effort if it means the lives of kids will be saved.
Good idea OP!

I see a better side to it. If private schools have qualified teachers, admins and even janitors... wouldn't the general public want them as well? "why can't my son have the security that such and such has?" I think it's a great idea. Should have happened 60 years ago.

Posted: 12/15/2012 11:42:59 PM EDT

[#3]

So you're providing training and guns...but isn't it illegal for them to carry in school ?

Or is part of your program to work to change the law ?

Posted: 12/15/2012 11:44:26 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Here in Alaska we have had armed police in high schools for some time post 9-11 and Colombine. I don't think elementary schools do though.

All the schools in Alaska ? I find that hard to believe with all the little towns.

Do you mean just the bigger cities like Fairbanks and Anchorage ?

Posted: 12/15/2012 11:45:12 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
This is something that I support in principle, but I just can't see this ever working out. Think about this, most public school systems can barely pay their payrolls, what makes you think they'll suddenly find the necessary funding to pay for training of their teachers (civilians, not LEO), provide uniform weapons and ammunition issued across the board?

Teachers are paid too little as it is, and often end up buying class supplies out of their own pockets. I don't see school systems paying for the initial and more importantly recurring necessary training for this, and I certainly can't see too many teachers being able to afford it on their already low salaries.

Again, I'm not saying the idea is bad, I really like it, and wish it could be adopted, I just don't see it being realistically feasible to actually set up.

Paid pretty well here, and quite a few other areas I've checked as well but that isn't the point of the thread I guess.

Posted: 12/15/2012 11:47:45 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
So you're providing training and guns...but isn't it illegal for them to carry in school ?

Or is part of your program to work to change the law ?

It's legal if approved by the state. (CCW training I believe) and approved by the school board and principal (administration) I'm certainly off in my understanding of it, but that's the jist of it. I looked it up two days ago becasue I thought the same thing when this all happened.

If they get the approval it's fair game. Lots of hoops to jump through, not so hard in the right district or private school. I'm not an attorney and it appears the OP has those bases covered. It seems doable.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:01:16 AM EDT

[#7]

Please let this get a foothold!

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:11:02 AM EDT

[#8]

I know this cause is well intentioned, but it will be for naught. I didn't go through all the pages & may be the single voice of dissent in this thread, but the general public isn't going to go for the argument to arm teachers in the classroom.

This argument is already being played out in on-TV debates & the proponents aren't "scoring" popularity points for it. Sorry, but the, "we need CCW in the classroom, otherwise, fuck you!"-argument will get an, "okay, here's a total ban-hammer on gun ownership, fuck you"-response. That you feel right in your own mind about an argument doesn't mean you're going to win hearts & minds. You have to find common ground with people, & where they're at isn't about CCW in the classroom. It's just an unrealistic proposition for them. "Yeah? Well, I'm right, so fuck them." Okay. Federal gun ban, here we come.

Finding common ground with people is the 1st step in pointing them in the right direction. This argument isn't going to resonate with the general public, & the public schools aren't going to allow teachers to CCW OTJ. Period. More realistic arguments will have to offered, or else the debate will be lost. Maybe permanently.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:19:01 AM EDT

[#9]

I totally agree with this OP and believe that our educators need the support to help defend children if a psychopath strikes again. Our educators are taught to protect children against fire during fire drills and inclement weather if a tornado siren should sound off. At the very least, states should allow volunteers to help guard and keep schools safe with armed parents.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:20:45 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
I know this cause is well intentioned, but it will be for naught. I didn't go through all the pages & may be the single voice of dissent in this thread, but the general public isn't going to go for the argument to arm teachers in the classroom.

This argument is already being played out in on-TV debates & the proponents aren't "scoring" popularity points for it. Sorry, but the, "we need CCW in the classroom, otherwise, fuck you!"-argument will get an, "okay, here's a total ban-hammer on gun ownership, fuck you"-response. That you feel right in your own mind about an argument doesn't mean you're going to win hearts & minds. You have to find common ground with people, & where they're at isn't about CCW in the classroom. It's just an unrealistic proposition for them. "Yeah? Well, I'm right, so fuck them." Okay. Federal gun ban, here we come.

Finding common ground with people is the 1st step in pointing them in the right direction. This argument isn't going to resonate with the general public, & the public schools aren't going to allow teachers to CCW OTJ. Period. More realistic arguments will have to offered, or else the debate will be lost. Maybe permanently.

What about private schools? Suddenly the "99%" have it better? The outcry from that alone will spark interest. Especially when the "rich people's" schools don't have this sort of violence. It may take 20 years or more. Whatever it takes to offer a solution is a good ending. We want instant recognition of our way of thinking, sadly most of the populace doesn't see it that way. I'm all for arming our teachers. Why not? It will pass the test of time and in the meanwhile my kid's little pear shaped teacher may just prevent what we saw in CT this week.

I'm all for it.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:26:39 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I know this cause is well intentioned, but it will be for naught. I didn't go through all the pages & may be the single voice of dissent in this thread, but the general public isn't going to go for the argument to arm teachers in the classroom.

This argument is already being played out in on-TV debates & the proponents aren't "scoring" popularity points for it. Sorry, but the, "we need CCW in the classroom, otherwise, fuck you!"-argument will get an, "okay, here's a total ban-hammer on gun ownership, fuck you"-response. That you feel right in your own mind about an argument doesn't mean you're going to win hearts & minds. You have to find common ground with people, & where they're at isn't about CCW in the classroom. It's just an unrealistic proposition for them. "Yeah? Well, I'm right, so fuck them." Okay. Federal gun ban, here we come.

Finding common ground with people is the 1st step in pointing them in the right direction. This argument isn't going to resonate with the general public, & the public schools aren't going to allow teachers to CCW OTJ. Period. More realistic arguments will have to offered, or else the debate will be lost. Maybe permanently.

I disagree, our current culture in America has turned favorably towards firearms and I really think people are starting to understand the need of personal gun ownership. Even Illinois is now jumping on the CCW bandwagon because constitutionally it is the right thing to do.

So, if guns won't be going away any time soon, how about we either allow our educators to be armed and trained to help defend our children or allow people to volunteer their time with valid CCW permits or weapons licenses to help protect our schools.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:31:05 AM EDT

[#12]

Hit me up if you need any instructor/teaching help in my area. Depending on where you try this I might be able to travel, got a shit ton of time to use and this is a great cause.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:34:04 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Proactive rather than reactive.

This, some other famous people have the same idea, and it is the right one

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:38:07 AM EDT

[#14]

This is exactly what I would love to see!! I have been thinking about calling a meeting with the superintendent of my child’s private school next week to discuss what if any plans they have in place for a "shooter" situation like this. I will inform him of the Artemis Project to protect our little ones from the monsters.. How can I help down here in Georgia? Please let me know, I'm self-employed and can devote some time to this..

I'm behind this 100% PLEASE let me know what I can do from here.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:43:45 AM EDT

[#15]

There are millions of veterans and retired cops who are trained and proficent; a huge untapped resource.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:48:53 AM EDT

[#16]

Awesome! I really hope this works out and all the right doors open.

<----High School Teacher at a private school.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:52:37 AM EDT

[#17]

There will be hurdles to overcome with this for sure. I can see private schools adopting this easier then public schools. I think it will make the private school all the more attractive to parents as well. Selling it to the female teachers will be touchy, getting them over the fear of a firearm. One way to sell them is for them to feel empowered to protect themselves when they are away from school.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:54:29 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Funny, I had a very similar thought today.

Two items to consider -

1: Contact a good, quality maker of pistol safes, someone like V line with a mechanism that is robust and not easily picked or pried open.

I think that a number of small safes, in multiple, dispersed locations known to the trained faculty, with a common quick access code, provides for better coverage than expecting teachers to actively CCW every day.

Think of them as fire extinguishers of a sort - with a weapon and 2-3 spare mags. Magazine in, chamber empty.

2: This event is shifting thinking, it's beyond the typical Brady rants, there is something else happening.

I caught a facebook post today from an extremely left wing, historically anti-gun neighbor of mine today who also happens to be a teacher.

She made the comment that "perhaps it is time".

That she has always been opposed to guns but was seriously considering getting a weapon, getting trained, getting a CCW and being able to actively defend her students if it came to that.

I was completely floored. But I believe that there are people on the left, people who have been gun control advocates that are beginning realize that the people that are physically there when something happens are really the ones that can stop these things.

That is the discussion that needs to be happening now. That is the conversation we need to have with these people saying "It's time to have a serious discussion about guns in this country"

I agree with this, also maybe one safe in a secure area with an AR and a shotgun.

Better than arming several teachers in a school is several armed volunteers, if we can get both great but do not try to make teachers shoulder all the burden of protecting our kids. It isn't really in their job description that they should be able to go tactical with 5 seconds warning. The Isreali methods seem to work.

Posted: 12/16/2012 12:56:57 AM EDT

[#19]

I just finished sending my local Representative an email stating my stance on helping to either arm/train our educators in defending our children or allowing volunteers to help in protecting them as well.

Posted: 12/16/2012 1:02:41 AM EDT

[#20]

I personally like it. I commend you for coming up with a solution and hope it all works out.

I think it's awesome because your target group of individuals you wish to train is usually very liberal/ anti-gun and this will open some eyes, get people on our side and protect children as a direct result. That's a wining combination

I believe it will also be a hard road with school district politics and liability issues, parents, especially in your area. This could shut it down.

That being said, I hope in a very short time, The Artimis project is a household name!

*ETA There's another place, Fox Valley Firearms that is trying to do the same thing.

Posted: 12/16/2012 1:05:41 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Here in Alaska we have had armed police in high schools for some time post 9-11 and Colombine. I don't think elementary schools do though.

All the schools in Alaska ? I find that hard to believe with all the little towns.

Do you mean just the bigger cities like Fairbanks and Anchorage ?

Anchorage is what I am familiar with. We had a shooting at a school in Western Alaska about a dozen years ago also, which could have been much worse.

As I stated this is only in high schools. I think that they view the Student body as the source of the threat so they are ignoring K-6-8 schools as those children are too young to become mass killers. The reality is you need to be able to deal with a Lanza or Breivik who attacks out of thin air.

Posted: 12/16/2012 1:08:07 AM EDT

[#22]

Great idea, but never going to happen. The liability alone will crush this before anything else.

Posted: 12/16/2012 1:36:58 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Great idea, but never going to happen. The liability alone will crush this before anything else.

Maybe not, due to the public seeking a real answer to this problem rather than political correctness taking hold. I really believe people are sick of this type of violence on both sides and since gun ownership is at an all time high why not empower our educators with the means to help defend their classrooms.

Posted: 12/16/2012 2:18:28 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I know this cause is well intentioned, but it will be for naught. I didn't go through all the pages & may be the single voice of dissent in this thread, but the general public isn't going to go for the argument to arm teachers in the classroom.

This argument is already being played out in on-TV debates & the proponents aren't "scoring" popularity points for it. Sorry, but the, "we need CCW in the classroom, otherwise, fuck you!"-argument will get an, "okay, here's a total ban-hammer on gun ownership, fuck you"-response. That you feel right in your own mind about an argument doesn't mean you're going to win hearts & minds. You have to find common ground with people, & where they're at isn't about CCW in the classroom. It's just an unrealistic proposition for them. "Yeah? Well, I'm right, so fuck them." Okay. Federal gun ban, here we come.

Finding common ground with people is the 1st step in pointing them in the right direction. This argument isn't going to resonate with the general public, & the public schools aren't going to allow teachers to CCW OTJ. Period. More realistic arguments will have to offered, or else the debate will be lost. Maybe permanently.

I disagree, our current culture in America has turned favorably towards firearms and I really think people are starting to understand the need of personal gun ownership. Even Illinois is now jumping on the CCW bandwagon because constitutionally it is the right thing to do.

So, if guns won't be going away any time soon, how about we either allow our educators to be armed and trained to help defend our children or allow people to volunteer their time with valid CCW permits or weapons licenses to help protect our schools.

I do not believe that the American majority that voted for a sitting president who has spent more than all previous presidents combined, facing $16T in the hole (even 1000x the debt we had under Bush II), & "free" healthcare will vote in favor of putting a HG in the classroom. Not even. They want promises & soothe-saying.

Carolyn McCarthy has been waiting for a watershed moment like this. An outright federal ban is probably on the minds of a lot of Americans at this point. Whether or not it will hold, I can't say, but in any case, the notion of putting guns in schools isn't going to fly. A mass shooting of 1st-graders in Dec., little more than a week before Christmas - on the heels of a shooting in OR just days before - is sauce for the goose.

Also, the arguments for Israel-style security is, culturally-speaking, apples to oranges. This isn't Israel. I do not believe people will be convinced to embrace such an approach. The majority do NOT believe in the individual's right to possess guns. They DO believe in being protected by someone else (ie. gov't employees).

Posted: 12/16/2012 3:58:08 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I am a high school assistant principal and would love any help you could throw to the state of TX

I know of one district that allows carry by employees, Harrold school district in northwest Texas

http://www.star-telegram.com/2012/12/14/4486104/texas-school-where-teachers-carry.html

supported by § 46.035 of the Texas Penal code.

apparently the superintendent just needs to provide written authorization, but i suppose that would be hard to obtain in various parts of the state

This might be a good place to start some discussions.
Like I said , once we get a few door open and the program operating it can take off quickly.

jrzy,

This is a fantastic idea!

I'm a TX CHL instructor. Let me know what I can do to help in my state.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:05:44 AM EDT

[#26]

Great idea, but probably a lot more expensive than you expect.

There are 248,000 public schools in the US.

At just $1000 a school to arm and train a couple of teachers you are talking about $248 million.

Then again with just a handful of snow you can start rolling a massive snowball

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:10:32 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Fantastic idea. Keep us updated. I'd kick in money or any other way I could help.

Same here.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:12:12 AM EDT

[#28]

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:13:22 AM EDT

[#29]

What needs to be done will vary by state as Nolo pointed out.

Federal law as far as I can tell only requires a state CCW permit to be legal to carry on school grounds.

In MA the only thing required beyond a CCW permit is a letter from the administrator giving an individual permission to carry on school grounds. This coud be done tomorrow with such a letter from eZch twn school administrator and a volunteer force of CCW pemitted volunteer parents.

A quick gouge search revealed their is already a laundry list of Artemis Projects varying from animal safety to clean water.

I suggest a variation on the name. Maybe the School Artemis Project or Artemis for Children Project or something like that. It needs to be unique so people can find it and the name is the domain name on the Internet.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:29:22 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Staff/Mods
I want to make this clear I am only looking for help as for suggestions in getting this done.
I am putting up the money and guns to get this started first here in Pa and Jersey and then with hope to make this a nation wide grass roots effort.

I have been in contact and bringing on board 3 lawyers, one from Jersey , one from further up north and one from Pa to help with state laws and other hurdles.

As a Firearms MFGer I feel obligated by to help & do what I can, my expertise is bringing people with the best skills for the job together.

We will begin training any school personnel/Teachers who want it and will move toward training them in combat tactical in CQC.
We will be outlining the programs and logistics in short order.
We want firearm uniformity in the same school systems for training and God forbid an emergency does come they have like guns and mags, for the same reason Police do.

Like I said we aren't looking for anything other than some good input to help get off the ground ion the right way and as soon as possible.

I have been in touch with other firearm MFGers and dealers and the money is not going to be an issue at all.

The goal here is to protect our Children and the people who care for them 7 hours a day.

If you don't have anything good to say please don't say anything at all.

I will be contacting staff so that anyone who can help with training or other wise will be able to.

We will be getting a web site up as soon as we can.

The end goal is trained personal allowed to carry covertly in schools to stop an active shooter on a rampage.

The name we have is "The Artemis Project"
Artemis is a protector of Children and the Vulnerable from Greek Mythology

In case it's not already clear
Artemis project will be providing the training, weapons, ammo, and other good & services to schools and school employees at no cost to them, as a matter of fact if the schools need other supplies I think we can help with that too.

Excellent, I am on board.

A Facebook, Twitter page will help spread the news, fast.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:32:12 AM EDT

[#31]

If there were such a program to train and arm educators to carry during the work day, I would support it every way possible. I'd donate time, money, ammo, whatever it took to make the program a sucess.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:35:46 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Arizona may be a viable area to begin your project.
1) "Gun Culture" The majority of people here don't seem to quiver at the mention or sight of a firearm.
2) Active AZCDL (Arizona Citizens Defense League) legislative/advocacy organization.
3) Governor Jan Brewer, somewhat pro-freedom/firearms.
4) Constitutional Carry Law (as well as licensed CCW, legal Open Carry)
6) Numerous firearms manufacturers in state.

This. Even a lot of the cali-whackos that moved in, canadians, wisconsinites.... surprisingly many of them are okay with guns maybe because they're used to Arizona culture. That's only a small subset that you shouldn't even have to worry about. It's strong in Arizona.

I wish I hadn't moved.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:35:52 AM EDT

[#33]

It will be difficult to overcome the "Any gun in any hands in a school is bad" notion. But I hope you do.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:36:14 AM EDT

[#34]

Great Idea.

But I can't see school districts assuming the liability.

God I hope I'm wrong.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:39:07 AM EDT

[#35]

I have seen a couple of comments about permission from a school administrator. I do want to point out that it is likely the superintendent that is the only administrator that would likely make that decision. I am an assistant principal at a high school in the suburbs of Houston. There is no way that I could decide to allow anyone including myself to bring a weapon to school. Possibly in rural small schools the principal could make this call but in suburbs and large cities I think you will need the top administrator.

That being said I wish my superintendent would give permission, but I see that as highly unlikely.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:39:51 AM EDT

[#36]

Good luck and best wishes.
I may be able to help down the road.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:43:03 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
I have seen a couple of comments about permission from a school administrator. I do want to point out that it is likely the superintendent that is the only administrator that would likely make that decision. I am an assistant principal at a high school in the suburbs of Houston. There is no way that I could decide to allow anyone including myself to bring a weapon to school. Possibly in rural small schools the principal could make this call but in suburbs and large cities I think you will need the top administrator.

That being said I wish my superintendent would give permission, but I see that as highly unlikely.

That is a good point. It depends on what the state law says. In my town there si only one administrator for the town and it s the superintendent.

Posted: 12/16/2012 4:50:38 AM EDT

[#38]

Jrzy,
Excellent idea. I havent read the whole thread yet, and need to get my own children up and fed breakfast, but I've VERY INTERESTED in how this goes.
My 3 year old twins attend preschool in the town I work in....I'd love for something like this to happen....everywhere.

Posted: 12/16/2012 5:02:13 AM EDT

[#39]

I fully support this Artemis idea, and see potential for expansion into other arenas. As a hospital worker, we train for active shooter scenarios but in the whole institution there are only about 5 armed guards for a 4 building campus. I think hospitals are 'soft targets' as well and would like to see Artemis come to healthcare as well.

Posted: 12/16/2012 5:13:38 AM EDT

[#40]

Great Idea.

In TX, the control of school decisions happens at the local level. That means local parents will need to contact their school boards and demand a program. Therefore, may I suggest you add a political outreach component to your plan. You should be able to "Arm" the parents in a local district with the tools to convince their school board. Obviously, a viable program of training will make this easier since the parents can point to your program and show how it would work.

I like the idea of partnering with the local PD's.

In my AO, we already have LEO's on campus. I think they would be receptive to the idea and, given their perspective, may have some good insight to offer.

Please let us know how best to support you.

112

Posted: 12/16/2012 5:50:39 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
First, I think the armed pilot analogy is effective. Second, recognize that schools are "gun free" because that's what the people have demanded. The schools and teachers just do what they're told. It's not the teachers you have to convince - it's the parents. And, anyway, you're never going to win teachers over by blaming them for the current state of things. Finally, be aware that you are talking about adding a massive responsibility to a teacher's daily duties here. You're putting the burden of deadly force decisions on their shoulders. You're going to add training/licensing requirements. And if this goes through you'd have teachers bringing guns into their cars and homes - which might be new and uncomfortable for them - unless you're going to have them report to the school armory every morning. All of those things would cost money.

ETA-I think the best way to simplify things (weapon choice, training, what to do in an emergency, solving the problem of LEOs recognizing that armed teachers are not targets, etc.) would be a partnership between schools and their local PD. But I betcha' the local PD is going to be a source of resistance.

Maybe in your town. But not in ours.
Our Chief is married to a Special School District teacher. My twin 3 year olds attend a preschool in the town I work in.
The preschool director is the wife of one our Fire Fighters.
Every police officer, in every Dept in St Louis County has recently, (as in last year) attended MACTAC Training (I forget the exact words of the acronym, but its basically multiple active shooter/terrorist attackers in a school or public place.
Cops are ALOT more pragmatic than you think. We dont care who can get the job done, as long as its getting done.
In this case, the "job" is protecting our children and keeping them safe while they are at school.

I didnt say it in my previous post, but I should have...

Thank you JRZY for doing this, and getting it started. No matter what comes of it, you've put your money and your time where your beliefs are and you have demonstrated you have the courage of your convictions. Not enough on this site, or in real life, do....

Posted: 12/16/2012 6:00:17 AM EDT

[#42]

Good luck.

Posted: 12/16/2012 6:27:56 AM EDT

[#43]

Programe seems like a good idea, I hope it takes hold...........................

I think a little more than state required ccw permit training would be needed though.

Posted: 12/16/2012 6:36:00 AM EDT

[#44]

People need to look at this in the same manner we looked at arming airline pilots following 9/11. We can't put air marshals on every flight, nor can we put police officers in every school. In many small towns and communities, the manpower simply isn't available.

I remember all the arguments against arming pilots. "They don't have enough training...they would just be a source of weapons for terrorists...firearms on aircraft would pose a safety hazard...blah blah blah". Yet since the program began, I haven't heard of a single issue arising from pilots being armed. And more importantly, I also haven't heard of any individual or group successfully storming the cockpit of a commercial airliner and seizing control of the plane. I have no idea how many pilots actually possess handguns on flights today. I would imagine the overall numbers are still fairly limited. But just the thought that a particular flight may have armed pilots has served as a deterrent to further 9/11 style plans. That should tell us something.

Oh, and who pioneered the efforts of armed pilots and air marshals that proved so successful? Israel. Who also has armed and trained volunteers in place protecting their schools? Israel. The model is already in place and it has proven highly successful.

Posted: 12/16/2012 6:37:08 AM EDT

[#45]

TAG. Let us know when you have a website up. People in my neighborhood are already wanting something like this. A few are teachers. Google the Artemis Project and you get dozens of hits for some water project..

Posted: 12/16/2012 6:46:27 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:

Great idea, but never going to happen. The liability alone will crush this before anything else.

The liability of doing nothing is more dead kids.

Posted: 12/16/2012 7:55:10 AM EDT

[#47]

This sounds like a great idea, but it's not going to solve the immediate problem, which is a rapid, knee-jerk passage of onerous gun control legislation if we don't get off of our duffs and DO something immediate in the next 24-48 hours (ie, on Monday and Tuesday of this coming week).

I've already sent emails and I will call my FL Congressman & Senators on Monday AM. I also recommend (and will be contacting) the following:

Sen Min Ldr: Mitch McConnell
Min Whip: Jon Kyl
R Conf Chair: John Thune
R Policy Comm Chair: John Barrasso

Speaker: John Boehner
House Maj Ldr: Eric Cantor
Maj Whip: Kevin McCarthy
R Conf Chair: Jeb Hensarling
R Policy Comm Chair: Tom Price

Posted: 12/16/2012 8:01:53 AM EDT

[#48]

Armed Teachers stop Terrorist Attack in Israel (Jan 2008)

Posted: 12/16/2012 8:30:04 AM EDT

[#49]

Great idea OP, and I commend you for stepping up.

I am a third grade teacher in North Carolina and would definitely be interested. My guess is, based on my knowledge of the training we have done locally in our schools, is that some legislation would be needed at the state level, and then local LEO's would have to be brought on board on a district by district basis. If the local LEO's were on board, then I think the school board would feel safe approving it.

Posted: 12/16/2012 8:36:05 AM EDT

[#50]

Great idea, I sure hope you can get it off the ground.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Artemis Project "NO MORE INNOCENT VICTIMS" (Page 3 of 9)

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