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Posted: 11/23/2014 5:58:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law but what would he know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What do they suppose our laws and beliefs were based on back then? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law but what would he know. He had an opinion. There were about 150 Founding Fathers. Lots of them disagreed with him. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 5:59:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your thread title is false. big time. But why let truth get in the way of an interesting headline |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:00:32 PM EDT
[#3]
I don't see the need for butthurt over this. We had Moses in our textbooks along with Hammurabi, Draco, Lycurgus, Solon, etc. They are in history texts because they are lawgivers. Moses is on the walls at the Supreme Court not for religious reasons, but for historical reasons.
Is there a link to what is said about Moses? |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:00:53 PM EDT
[#4]
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
John Adams, Letter to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, October 11, 1798 |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:01:10 PM EDT
[#5]
So OP just drops this turd in the punchbowl and logs off.
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:02:57 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your thread title is false. My thoughts exactly. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:04:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Woohoo!
Read that Yankees and Californians! It's screwed up! Don't come here! Flee! Flee! |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:04:39 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law but what would he know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do they suppose our laws and beliefs were based on back then? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law but what would he know. Seeing as how he was in France when the Constitution was written... |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:07:48 PM EDT
[#9]
I'd hardly call Moses a democratic leader. If he let the Jews have their way, many would have gone back into bondage. Walking around the Sinai and what is now Saudi Arabia isn't fun. Oh, those big dudes in the Promised Land are scary. Let's run away.
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:08:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Woohoo! Read that Yankees and Californians! It's screwed up! Don't come here! Flee! Flee! 
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:10:28 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How's the church SWAT team coming along? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: who were these atheists or progressive communists that fought in the American revolution? without the church in America we would still be a british colony, it's the modern atheist that have changed American history How's the church SWAT team coming along? |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:10:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seeing as how he was in France when the Constitution was written... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: What do they suppose our laws and beliefs were based on back then? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law but what would he know. Seeing as how he was in France when the Constitution was written... and you're several hundred years removed, whereas he knew and conversed with the men who wrote it. I'll take his word on it over yours every day and twice on Sunday. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:11:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So OP just drops this turd in the punchbowl and logs off. of course he did. Like Old painless said. he new it was misleading when he started the thread. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:12:37 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's a shame that thanks to radical liberals, churches need such things Quote HistoryQuoted:
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who were these atheists or progressive communists that fought in the American revolution? without the church in America we would still be a british colony, it's the modern atheist that have changed American history How's the church SWAT team coming along? 
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:16:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams, Letter to the Officers of the First Brigade of the Third Division of the Militia of Massachusetts, October 11, 1798 Thank you for properly referencing your quote. It's rare to see someone actually include the source of the quote, just the author. Good job. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:18:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
and you're several hundred years removed, whereas he knew and conversed with the men who wrote it. I'll take his word on it over yours every day and twice on Sunday. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do they suppose our laws and beliefs were based on back then? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law but what would he know. Seeing as how he was in France when the Constitution was written... and you're several hundred years removed, whereas he knew and conversed with the men who wrote it. I'll take his word on it over yours every day and twice on Sunday. What is your cite for this? |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:18:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you for properly referencing your quote. It's rare to see someone actually include the source of the quote, just the author. Good job. 
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:18:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do they suppose our laws and beliefs were based on back then? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile ETA : Disregard, read the entire thread and realized it was taken out of context. Sorry |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:23:07 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:23:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The country was founded on Christian values. Get over it. Atheism had nothing to do with it. ^^^^Pretty much this^^^^ And the more we slip away from those values the less of a country we will become..........as evident and proven from the history from then until now......... 
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:27:52 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
and you're several hundred years removed, whereas he knew and conversed with the men who wrote it. I'll take his word on it over yours every day and twice on Sunday. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What do they suppose our laws and beliefs were based on back then? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law but what would he know. Seeing as how he was in France when the Constitution was written... and you're several hundred years removed, whereas he knew and conversed with the men who wrote it. I'll take his word on it over yours every day and twice on Sunday. So your contention is that English Common law was in no way influenced by Judeo-Christian teachings? Would a similar argument be Sharia is only based on Islamic Law and had no relation to Arab custom? |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:30:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do they suppose our laws and beliefs were based on back then? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Silence, irrational zealot! 
This thread should go about as well as expected. Have no fear, the need to be "right" will override all else in the minds of many. When "proof" is lacking either way, their opinion must be superior, obviously. Good will and faith? Outdated concepts. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:31:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is your cite for this? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law but what would he know. Seeing as how he was in France when the Constitution was written... and you're several hundred years removed, whereas he knew and conversed with the men who wrote it. I'll take his word on it over yours every day and twice on Sunday. What is your cite for this? 1) you were not alive in 1789 2) TJ was anything else you need? |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:36:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What do they suppose our laws and beliefs were based on back then? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Hammurabi's code. Gouging out eyes and breaking out teeth legally since 1754 BC. All hail Shamash!!!!! |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:37:28 PM EDT
[#25]
You're an idiot if you think putting religion in your politics won't result in getting politics in your religion.
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:39:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So OP just drops this turd in the punchbowl and logs off. He succeeded in achieving his goal with that title. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:39:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So your contention is that English Common law was in no way influenced by Judeo-Christian teachings? Would a similar argument be Sharia is only based on Islamic Law and had no relation to Arab custom? I never said that. English Common Law is a mixture of pagan and Judeo-Christian on both the Anglo-Saxon and Norman sides. There is also a huge difference in the statements "The US was founded as a Christian Nation" in the same way Iran is a Muslim Nation and "Christianity was a huge influence on the United States". The first statement is false. The 2nd is a statement of the obvious. The problem is when someone points out the problems with the first statement, the idiots who populate GD and this country jump straight to the second part. Sort of like how you did with my statement. Christianity has a huge influence on Western Civilization since the Battle of Milvan Bridge, I don't know anyone (even New Atheists) who doesn't acknowledge the historical significance of Christianity in the west. The question isn't about the influence, its whether the influence has been a net positive. I believe it has, but there have been some issues. Some of those issues led to the birth of our country. Our Founding Fathers were primarily Christian men who chose to make a secular government, because they had seen first hand the problems with a national religion. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:41:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This article is high in sensationalism Well, duh. Sensationalism is all Social Justice Whiners have. Well, that and delusion. Lots of delusion. And butthurt. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:42:11 PM EDT
[#29]
So Karl Marx isn't one of he founders? That causes some serious butt hurt among the Marxists/socialist crowds. Here's my sad face
We are a Christian nation founded on Christian principles. Yes they weren't all Christians but the majority were. Church had a lot to do with people even coming here. And in the revolution. (Another reason why the Socialists don't like churches to have freedom of speech) Marxists really want to erase our Christian heritage. It doesn't mean they have to be Christian. But they have such hate for religion even the mention of it in the public square sets them off. 
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:45:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
He had an opinion. There were about 150 Founding Fathers. Lots of them disagreed with him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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What do they suppose our laws and beliefs were based on back then? Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law but what would he know. He had an opinion. There were about 150 Founding Fathers. Lots of them disagreed with him. I'm going to go with NO, lots of them didnt fucking disagree with him. Seeing as how one of the FIRST legislative act afters the American Revolution was was to adopt a reception statute, that gave legal effect to the existing body of English common law. That and then there is that pesky 3rd Article of the constitution... Yeah, thats not explicitly setting up a system heavily rooted in English common law.
I'd like to see a quote from even a single founding father that refutes our legal system was based on common law. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:48:13 PM EDT
[#31]
whom Christ has set free is free indeed.
atheists and liberals hate freedom of Religion
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:50:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So Karl Marx isn't one of he founders? That causes some serious butt hurt among the Marxists/socialist crowds. Here's my sad face We are a Christian nation founded on Christian principles. Yes they weren't all Christians but the majority were. Church had a lot to do with people even coming here. And in the revolution. (Another reason why the Socialists don't like churches to have freedom of speech) Marxists really want to erase our Christian heritage. It doesn't mean they have to be Christian. But they have such hate for religion even the mention of it in the public square sets them off. and that is why people feel the need to kick fundamentalists in the teeth now and again. If you allow those lies to stand unchallenged, it allows the other side to win the debate. The U.S. is not a Christian nation in the same way that Iran is a Muslim nation. Hasn't ever been, and God willing, never will be. The U.S. was founded on enlightenment principles. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:53:56 PM EDT
[#33]
I'd have to read these textbooks to have an opinion on this. The source of that article may be biased.
I'm an agnostic so I don't exactly have a dog on this fight, but it no stretch to say that Judeo-Christian theology and teachings played a substantial role in the way our political system evolved. Anyone that denies that is just being obtuse. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:54:41 PM EDT
[#34]
As much as the atheist have stuck it to the christians I am very happy to see the christians return the favor.
Oh, OP lied in the subject line, makes ya think eh? |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 6:56:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was his entire intent. He knew it was false when he posted it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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OP, you planning to change that thread title now that it's been repeatedly demonstrated to be utter bullshit  That was his entire intent. He knew it was false when he posted it. Absolutely. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:03:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is the deal... The Texas textbooks do **NOT** list Moses as a "Founding Father.' He is listed as "influencing" the founding fathers, among other influential advocates of democracy... Moses, and the 10 commandments, are a valid "influence" of the US Constitution and the Founding Fathers... The problem, from and academic standpoint, is that the Founding Fathers referenced many other thinkers and books of the time, but not necessarily Moses. The Bible, yes. Moses specifically, among other books and influencers with heavy references from the Founding Fathers... No. And that is the problem for academics. They want to see the *academic* reference to Moses specifically. I think the Texas textbook committee should have listed the Bible, and along with it, Moses... And that would have kept the academics happy. The problem... Liberal douche nozzles want to paint all conservatives with a broad, broad brush... But they do the exact same thing, just the opposite when they are on textbook committees. They would remove all reference to the Bible and the Founding Fathers from any textbooks... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Much like liberalism, irrational Christian zealotry is a mental illness.  Here is the deal... The Texas textbooks do **NOT** list Moses as a "Founding Father.' He is listed as "influencing" the founding fathers, among other influential advocates of democracy... Moses, and the 10 commandments, are a valid "influence" of the US Constitution and the Founding Fathers... The problem, from and academic standpoint, is that the Founding Fathers referenced many other thinkers and books of the time, but not necessarily Moses. The Bible, yes. Moses specifically, among other books and influencers with heavy references from the Founding Fathers... No. And that is the problem for academics. They want to see the *academic* reference to Moses specifically. I think the Texas textbook committee should have listed the Bible, and along with it, Moses... And that would have kept the academics happy. The problem... Liberal douche nozzles want to paint all conservatives with a broad, broad brush... But they do the exact same thing, just the opposite when they are on textbook committees. They would remove all reference to the Bible and the Founding Fathers from any textbooks... So, Squach is wrong again? |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:07:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The U.S. is not a Christian nation in the same way that Iran is a Muslim nation. Hasn't ever been, and God willing, never will be. The U.S. was founded on enlightenment principles. Yep, and if the founding fathers want\ed to make Christianity the state religion, they would have done just that. Do people really believe that Nancy Pelosi and the ACLU would have stopped them, or what? |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:16:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd have to read these textbooks to have an opinion on this. The source of that article may be biased. I'm an agnostic so I don't exactly have a dog on this fight, but it no stretch to say that Judeo-Christian theology and teachings played a substantial role in the way our political system evolved. Anyone that denies that is just being obtuse. Stop being rational!! Yeah, the US Constitution is a long, long way from being set up as a theocracy, but anyone who denies that the founders of our country came from a culture with heavy Judeo-Christian influences has an agenda or is just flat out ignorant. Judeo-Christian tradition, English Common Law, Enlightenment philosophy, Greek and Roman classical Republican thought. We can debate all day what the proportions were but they were all there. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:20:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your argument has devolved into semantics. They passed a law they thought was as strict as it could be and still pass judicial review. Guess what, it didn't. Don't be an anti-semantite 
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:21:23 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Patheos is a secular humanist website with an agenda. That is not what Texas did. Texas reinforced the common knowledge that western laws come from 2 historical documents; The code of Hammurabi and the 10 commandments. Moses brought the 10 down from the mountain. Stop reading bullshit websites. I'm good with this. 
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:31:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stop being rational!! Yeah, the US Constitution is a long, long way from being set up as a theocracy, but anyone who denies that the founders of our country came from a culture with heavy Judeo-Christian influences has an agenda or is just flat out ignorant. Judeo-Christian tradition, English Common Law, Enlightenment philosophy, Greek and Roman classical Republican thought. We can debate all day what the proportions were but they were all there. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I'd have to read these textbooks to have an opinion on this. The source of that article may be biased. I'm an agnostic so I don't exactly have a dog on this fight, but it no stretch to say that Judeo-Christian theology and teachings played a substantial role in the way our political system evolved. Anyone that denies that is just being obtuse. Stop being rational!! Yeah, the US Constitution is a long, long way from being set up as a theocracy, but anyone who denies that the founders of our country came from a culture with heavy Judeo-Christian influences has an agenda or is just flat out ignorant. Judeo-Christian tradition, English Common Law, Enlightenment philosophy, Greek and Roman classical Republican thought. We can debate all day what the proportions were but they were all there. Influences, yes. Foundation as such, no. The US was never founded as a "Christian nation" at all. Its founding documents do draw on the Enlightenment philosophers and English common law, which themselves are based on a Christianized European take on the ancient Romans and Greeks. So yes, there are religious influences, but they're not so explicit as some would have one think. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 7:59:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Don't forget the influence of the disasterous English 17th century and the collective memory of the English Civil War and Oliver Cromwell. The founders had good
reasons to be wary of an official state religion. I suspect this had more influence on the founders thinking than Moses. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 8:05:54 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1) you were not alive in 1789 2) TJ was anything else you need? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: According to Thomas Jefferson, it was English Common Law
but what would he know. Seeing as how he was in France when the Constitution was written... and you're several hundred years removed, whereas he knew and conversed with the men who wrote it. I'll take his word on it over yours every day and twice on Sunday. What is your cite for this? 1) you were not alive in 1789 2) TJ was anything else you need? 
His contention that ourcountry was founded on ECL and not the Bible. |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 8:19:16 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is 100% false. And it is straight from the liberal slant. He is listed as an "influencer" of the Founding Fathers in Texas approved curriculum. Not as a "Founding Father." Liberal slant is obvious. I think that Texas should include the "Bible" and Moses, not necessarily Moses on his own. I think that would be easier to reference correctly for academics who are questioning it. It is not difficult at all to find references to the Bible as and influencer of the Founding Fathers... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Your thread title is false. It is 100% false. And it is straight from the liberal slant. He is listed as an "influencer" of the Founding Fathers in Texas approved curriculum. Not as a "Founding Father." Liberal slant is obvious. I think that Texas should include the "Bible" and Moses, not necessarily Moses on his own. I think that would be easier to reference correctly for academics who are questioning it. It is not difficult at all to find references to the Bible as and influencer of the Founding Fathers... The mistake I see is, the Law of Moses, while delivered to the children of Israel by Moses, was authored by God. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 8:21:00 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His contention that ourcountry was founded on ECL and not the Bible. I know I was fucking with you man. Sorry. Try this letter: and this one enjoy! |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 8:28:27 PM EDT
[#46]
John Moses?
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Posted: 11/23/2014 8:46:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know I was fucking with you man. Sorry.
Try this letter: http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/presidents/thomas-jefferson/letters-of-thomas-jefferson/jefl227.php and this one http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/presidents/thomas-jefferson/letters-of-thomas-jefferson/jefl278.php enjoy! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
His contention that ourcountry was founded on ECL and not the Bible. I know I was fucking with you man. Sorry.
Try this letter: http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/presidents/thomas-jefferson/letters-of-thomas-jefferson/jefl227.php and this one http://www.let.rug.nl/usa/presidents/thomas-jefferson/letters-of-thomas-jefferson/jefl278.php enjoy! Holy crap but there is a lot of Latin in that first letter! I see a lot of discussion on English Common Law not being founded on Biblical principles. It looks like a classic example of someone taking something out of context and lots of other people quoting that as their reason for stating the "fact". I was surprised ot see Blackstone included in that list. Could you help me out where he goes on to say that our country was based on English Common Law? I didn't really see that spelled out in there. I did see a lot of discussion in letter #2 talking about natural rights, rights fromnthe creator ond rights written on our hearts. Thanks again, There is a good bit in there to digest! |
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Posted: 11/23/2014 8:49:25 PM EDT
[#48]
If I post my opinion on this issue I'll get teh banhammer.
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Posted: 11/23/2014 8:57:54 PM EDT
[#49]
An "I hate Christians" thread on Sunday?!?!?
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Posted: 11/23/2014 9:13:32 PM EDT
[#50]
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/23/us/texas-approves-disputed-history-texts-for-schools.html?_r=0
The history, social studies and government textbooks were submitted for approval this summer, and academics and activists on the right and left criticized many of them. Some worried that the textbooks were too sympathetic to Islam or played down the achievements of President Ronald Reagan. Others said they overstated the importance of Moses to America’s founding fathers or trumpeted the free-market system too much. The final vote was supposed to be without rancor, but an effort earlier in the week to give preliminary approval collapsed. Board members raised concerns about a series of issues, including Moses, Muslims and the Common Core, a national set of curriculum standards in math and English that is forbidden by Texas law. That delay prompted a decision on Friday by one of the nation’s largest educational publishers, Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, to withdraw a proposed high school book, "United States Government: Principles in Practice,” which included a total of five textbook and software products. "What we saw today shows very clearly that the process the State Board of Education uses to adopt textbooks is a sham,” said Kathy Miller, president of the Texas Freedom Network, a left-leaning group. "This board adopted textbooks with numerous late changes that the public had little opportunity to review and comment on and that even board members themselves admitted they had not read.” |
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