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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:03:52 AM EDT
[#1]
When my parents owned a house in Ca they had solar panels installed. It cut their electric bill in half.
I would love to have some panels myself but haven't seen any that take a beating from a Texas hail storm. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:05:12 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn, Gordon Freeman got old! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My system is off grid BTW. Is your avatar also a selfie?  I wish. Damn, Gordon Freeman got old!  |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:06:24 AM EDT
[#3]
in before they try to punish you for being off the grid ...
by making up "environmental impact" claims, or trying to punish you for not paying taxes on your electricity or something like that. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:06:59 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in before they try to punish you for being off the grid ... by making up "environmental impact" claims, or trying to punish you for not paying taxes on your electricity or something like that. This is already happening. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:14:50 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When my parents owned a house in Ca they had solar panels installed. It cut their electric bill in half. I would love to have some panels myself but haven't seen any that take a beating from a Texas hail storm. Most panels will take a direct blow from a 1" piece of hail at 60 mph, when you set your panels at an angle it will take a much harder hit. I work for a utility in central TX and we just had a solar tour, we are trying to have 20% of our production solar by 2020. It is defiantly not for everyone, but as cheap as the panels are right now, and with the 30% subsidy you can produce 1,200 kwh a month for around 12K. One of the homes that was on our tour had a 12kw system and was doing right at 1,300 kwh. These systems are also interconnects so no battery bank to purchase and maintain. Yes that's a huge negative for people on this site for SHTF and all but for those looking for a small investment to eventually not have to pay a utility bill while using the utility its a plus. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:16:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is already happening. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
in before they try to punish you for being off the grid ... by making up "environmental impact" claims, or trying to punish you for not paying taxes on your electricity or something like that. This is already happening. some utilities are also charging a system impact fee 
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:26:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Take away the Govt. Subsidies = death of Solar.
Take away the large utility taxes (50%+ of your electric bill is taxes)= death of Solar. Utility companies have become big govt tax collectors! |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:29:25 AM EDT
[#8]
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If they ever get dirty and you want them cleaned, that's my job. Literally, solar panel cleaning is a thing. DO you feed birds in your spare time 
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:29:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUBSIDIZES SOLAR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6849723/solar-power-net-metering-utilities-fight-states I'm gonna expand my system in a few months. FUCK THE BIG UTILITIES. FUCK THE TAXES WE PAY ON ELECTRICITY ALSO. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUBSIDIZES SOLAR. Shhh... Op want to live in his fantasy world where unicorn farts are the future automobile fuel... |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:31:59 AM EDT
[#10]
I don't have a problem with solar.
I have a problem with government mandates to use it. I want solar for my house so I can reduce my dependence on the grid, but that's different than being forced to do it. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:32:37 AM EDT
[#11]
We installed a 6kw grid tied system this summer. I'll need a year to really see the numbers but so far so good. We went as American as we could (Suniva panels, PowerOne TL inverter) which upped the total cost by about $600. Also, going with pole mounts adds a lot of cost, as opposed to rood mounting (not a option for us). Happy with the decision.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:34:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yea but no farmers=no food.............so I've been told. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
http://www.vox.com/2014/9/29/6849723/solar-power-net-metering-utilities-fight-states I'm gonna expand my system in a few months. FUCK THE BIG UTILITIES. FUCK THE TAXES WE PAY ON ELECTRICITY ALSO. FUCK THE GOVERNMENT THAT SUBSIDIZES SOLAR. and agriculture, oil, auto, financial, etc etc etc... Yea but no farmers=no food.............so I've been told. It's not so much that no farmers = no food. We COULD import it.....but we don't want to be at the world's mercy for something so basic as food. If you want to know what it's like, just look at how we get wagged around by oil. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:36:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
some utilities are also charging a system impact fee Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
in before they try to punish you for being off the grid ... by making up "environmental impact" claims, or trying to punish you for not paying taxes on your electricity or something like that. This is already happening. some utilities are also charging a system impact fee So, what would they do if you "stayed on the grid" but had a master switch installed to swap between grid and solar....and just used 0 power? You are still "connected" but you don't use shit. Since they sell power around here by how much you use, my bill would be 0 as long as I kept my house off of grid power. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:37:32 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We installed a 6kw grid tied system this summer. I'll need a year to really see the numbers but so far so good. We went as American as we could (Suniva panels, PowerOne TL inverter) which upped the total cost by about $600. Also, going with pole mounts adds a lot of cost, as opposed to rood mounting (not a option for us). Happy with the decision. http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac180/AssSupt/solar/120cbb810f46eb9d58fbb19f6e6db004_zps349157ca.jpg http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac180/AssSupt/solar/e8470ff30dbdf6f74e85b535715dcf48_zpsaa015fc5.jpg Nice setup and thank your stars you don't have pine beetles |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:37:46 AM EDT
[#15]
Ran my ham station for three days on solar alone
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:38:35 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh btw, having the government force the utilities to buy solar power at the full retail rate is complete bullshit. The government has no business fixing prices *anywhere*. That is what the utilities are pissed about. And no wonder, they only get to sell that power at the same retail rate, but transmission losses and infrastructure costs are pure losses for them. When you operate as a monopoly trade offs like this are part of the equation. Let the free markets at the utilities by removing their protections from competition and see how well it works. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:43:33 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice setup and thank your stars you don't have pine beetles Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We installed a 6kw grid tied system this summer. I'll need a year to really see the numbers but so far so good. We went as American as we could (Suniva panels, PowerOne TL inverter) which upped the total cost by about $600. Also, going with pole mounts adds a lot of cost, as opposed to rood mounting (not a option for us). Happy with the decision. http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac180/AssSupt/solar/120cbb810f46eb9d58fbb19f6e6db004_zps349157ca.jpg http://i897.photobucket.com/albums/ac180/AssSupt/solar/e8470ff30dbdf6f74e85b535715dcf48_zpsaa015fc5.jpg Nice setup and thank your stars you don't have pine beetles Thanks. We do have beetles. We're at 90% mortality in the pines across most of the Forest. We are a few chapters behind CO. The brunt of the epidemic hit around 2008. I've thinned and broadcast burned our land. What you see is the result of that. 
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:43:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None should get assistance nor be hindered by the Federal .gov. Free market (at the federal level) 100%. Sink or swim on there own. In any event solar and wind get way more support than hydrocarbon fuels. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. So you agree that wind and solar should receive the same amount of assistance as coal and oil? Sink or swim on there own. In any event solar and wind get way more support than hydrocarbon fuels. No, they don't. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:47:44 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: some utilities are also charging a system impact fee Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: in before they try to punish you for being off the grid ... by making up "environmental impact" claims, or trying to punish you for not paying taxes on your electricity or something like that. This is already happening. some utilities are also charging a system impact fee Some states require them to "buy back" excess power at retail prices, which I think is wrong. I don't think they should be forced to buy back ANY power. But, at least let them do at wholesale prices. So in a way I agree with the "system impact fee" if a house is tied to the grid, or is able to "sell back" their excess power. Quit frankly while I support the technology, and am very encouraged by the progress that's been made over the last couple of decades, But I'm in agreement with most opponents of government's involvement in it. I know of a large pecan operation around Albany, Georgia that built a large solar array to supply all their power needs for irrigation. So this already wealthy farmer (inherited wealth), after grants, tax credits, and subsidies, has a 3 year breakeven cost. Georgia Power has to buy his excess electricity at a few hundred thousand dollar per year, pure profit He did this about 3 years ago, so except for some routine maintenance, and insurance, he's making a killing on an array that takes up less then acre of land. But it's because of government's involvement. He's making so much extra cash, that he's building an even larger array in North Georgia to do the same thing. (link) We're close, and I look forward to the day with the right energy storage technology, and efficiencies, that we can free ourselves of fossil fuels. But I don't want government involved. I'd like to see nuclear power, hydroelectric, solar, wind, geothermal supply all of our power needs. I believe that will happen. But I don't want government involved. This isn't based on my desire to "save the environment", it's based my desire to get off fossil fuels. Energy cost are a huge problem. Unlimited cheap energy equals prosperity, and freedom. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:51:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Between the cost of batteries, Inverters, pannels, controllers, and cables...are you really going to save any money in the end? What about winter time, when you get less sun. Have fun replacing your batteries when they die. With that said, I think that solar energy is pretty cool and I would likely do it if I though it was cost effective to run my entire home, which it isn't. Free energy really isn't free. This man knows what he is talking about. Anyone telling you any different does not have a system in their home that they can have a normal way of life with. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:53:58 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, they don't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. So you agree that wind and solar should receive the same amount of assistance as coal and oil? Sink or swim on there own. In any event solar and wind get way more support than hydrocarbon fuels. No, they don't. Yes they do and you know it. And they are unreliable and fuck up condition and market reliability driving up cost to everyone. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 11:59:51 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, they don't. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. So you agree that wind and solar should receive the same amount of assistance as coal and oil? Sink or swim on there own. In any event solar and wind get way more support than hydrocarbon fuels. No, they don't. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:00:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some states require them to "buy back" excess power at retail prices, which I think is wrong. I don't think they should be forced to buy back ANY power. But, at least let them do at wholesale prices. So in a way I agree with the "system impact fee" if a house is tied to the grid, or is able to "sell back" their excess power. Quit frankly while I support the technology, and am very encouraged by the progress that's been made over the last couple of decades, But I'm in agreement with most opponents of government's involvement in it. I know of a large pecan operation around Albany, Georgia that built a large solar array to supply all their power needs for irrigation. So this already wealthy farmer (inherited wealth), after grants, tax credits, and subsidies, has a 3 year breakeven cost. Georgia Power has to buy his excess electricity at a few hundred thousand dollar per year, pure profit He did this about 3 years ago, so except for some routine maintenance, and insurance, he's making a killing on an array that takes up less then acre of land. But it's because of government's involvement. He's making so much extra cash, that he's building an even larger array in North Georgia to do the same thing. (link) We're close, and I look forward to the day with the right energy storage technology, and efficiencies, that we can free ourselves of fossil fuels. But I don't want government involved. I'd like to see nuclear power, hydroelectric, solar, wind, geothermal supply all of our power needs. I believe that will happen. But I don't want government involved. This isn't based on my desire to "save the environment", it's based my desire to get off fossil fuels. Energy cost are a huge problem. Unlimited cheap energy equals prosperity, and freedom. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
in before they try to punish you for being off the grid ... by making up "environmental impact" claims, or trying to punish you for not paying taxes on your electricity or something like that. This is already happening. some utilities are also charging a system impact fee Some states require them to "buy back" excess power at retail prices, which I think is wrong. I don't think they should be forced to buy back ANY power. But, at least let them do at wholesale prices. So in a way I agree with the "system impact fee" if a house is tied to the grid, or is able to "sell back" their excess power. Quit frankly while I support the technology, and am very encouraged by the progress that's been made over the last couple of decades, But I'm in agreement with most opponents of government's involvement in it. I know of a large pecan operation around Albany, Georgia that built a large solar array to supply all their power needs for irrigation. So this already wealthy farmer (inherited wealth), after grants, tax credits, and subsidies, has a 3 year breakeven cost. Georgia Power has to buy his excess electricity at a few hundred thousand dollar per year, pure profit He did this about 3 years ago, so except for some routine maintenance, and insurance, he's making a killing on an array that takes up less then acre of land. But it's because of government's involvement. He's making so much extra cash, that he's building an even larger array in North Georgia to do the same thing. (link) We're close, and I look forward to the day with the right energy storage technology, and efficiencies, that we can free ourselves of fossil fuels. But I don't want government involved. I'd like to see nuclear power, hydroelectric, solar, wind, geothermal supply all of our power needs. I believe that will happen. But I don't want government involved. This isn't based on my desire to "save the environment", it's based my desire to get off fossil fuels. Energy cost are a huge problem. Unlimited cheap energy equals prosperity, and freedom. This same thing is going to start happening everywhere in the US if the government does not get our of it. The prices of solar has drastically decreased in the past few years. this same thing happened in Germany, they produce over 75% of their electricity from wind and solar, but now are charging astronomical bs fees |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:05:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This same thing is going to start happening everywhere in the US if the government does not get our of it. The prices of solar has drastically decreased in the past few years. this same thing happened in Germany, they produce over 75% of their electricity from wind and solar, but now are charging astronomical bs fees Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: in before they try to punish you for being off the grid ... by making up "environmental impact" claims, or trying to punish you for not paying taxes on your electricity or something like that. This is already happening. some utilities are also charging a system impact fee Some states require them to "buy back" excess power at retail prices, which I think is wrong. I don't think they should be forced to buy back ANY power. But, at least let them do at wholesale prices. So in a way I agree with the "system impact fee" if a house is tied to the grid, or is able to "sell back" their excess power. Quit frankly while I support the technology, and am very encouraged by the progress that's been made over the last couple of decades, But I'm in agreement with most opponents of government's involvement in it. I know of a large pecan operation around Albany, Georgia that built a large solar array to supply all their power needs for irrigation. So this already wealthy farmer (inherited wealth), after grants, tax credits, and subsidies, has a 3 year breakeven cost. Georgia Power has to buy his excess electricity at a few hundred thousand dollar per year, pure profit He did this about 3 years ago, so except for some routine maintenance, and insurance, he's making a killing on an array that takes up less then acre of land. But it's because of government's involvement. He's making so much extra cash, that he's building an even larger array in North Georgia to do the same thing. (link) We're close, and I look forward to the day with the right energy storage technology, and efficiencies, that we can free ourselves of fossil fuels. But I don't want government involved. I'd like to see nuclear power, hydroelectric, solar, wind, geothermal supply all of our power needs. I believe that will happen. But I don't want government involved. This isn't based on my desire to "save the environment", it's based my desire to get off fossil fuels. Energy cost are a huge problem. Unlimited cheap energy equals prosperity, and freedom. This same thing is going to start happening everywhere in the US if the government does not get our of it. The prices of solar has drastically decreased in the past few years. this same thing happened in Germany, they produce over 75% of their electricity from wind and solar, but now are charging astronomical bs fees |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:07:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Solar Panel efficiency declines about 1.5% a year.
If you are going to go Solar, it is best to buy quality solar panels with the highest efficiency rating that you can afford. Panels are getting cheaper shortening the Pay Off Time (Cost of Solar System vs Annual Cost of Electrical Consumption from a Utility) Payoff times or Break even points still take years...but the greatest thing about a Solar System is peace of mind when it comes to Electrical Bills and if you have a good Battery System, you don't have to worry about power outages. If you live in a area that gets very hot like Arizona, Solar Panels are definately the way to go. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:08:59 PM EDT
[#26]
What is used to generate the power to manufacture solar panels and the supporting equipment?
What about the environmental impact if the manufacturing process and disposal of this gear? Batteries use chemicals and heavy metals. Lol I'm in the coal efficiency business. Talking to an engineer at the Duke plant in Asheville. They generate about 250 MW, with coal and NG. His math sez they would have to cove the whole state of North Carolina to generate this one tiny plants output. I'm all in for green. But fuck picking winners. Kill coal and then call me with the economic disaster numbers. Who wants a wind turbine in their back yard raise your hand? They are a hideously poor source of energy and ruin many a landscape. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:09:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This man knows what he is talking about. Anyone telling you any different does not have a system in their home that they can have a normal way of life with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Between the cost of batteries, Inverters, pannels, controllers, and cables...are you really going to save any money in the end? What about winter time, when you get less sun. Have fun replacing your batteries when they die. With that said, I think that solar energy is pretty cool and I would likely do it if I though it was cost effective to run my entire home, which it isn't. Free energy really isn't free. This man knows what he is talking about. Anyone telling you any different does not have a system in their home that they can have a normal way of life with. That's an interesting question. At a fixed cost of 11 cents per kilowatt hour over the next 25 years, my energy cost would be around $82,500. I priced a system (roof top won't do it... but I have land) to accomplish this, and the cost came in about $70-80k without including any tax credits. That included having to replace the batteries and inverters 3 times, and assumed a fixed battery and inverter cost. The solar panels themselves were rated at 30 years with loss of efficiency of 25% at that point. So it was fairly expensive upfront, but doable. The gamble is whether or not electricity price increase in the future (next 25 years), and do batteries and inverters drop in price. This system would allow me to be an energy glutton, so no mud hut deprivation needed. We're close. But no rooftop system will accomplish this. Some folks in this thread seem to be cheering for this endeavor to fail. I don't get it.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:10:54 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yay, subsidies! 
Like the oil companies and corn growers don't get theirs.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:14:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ran my ham station for three days on solar alone
http://api.zenfolio.com/cdn/pub/eieldhibnqvl/0/null/m/j8ifejeeqedplb9h9eu5/s5/v120/p227333194-4.jpg?sn=2YH&tk=Z_LUs_KqODq4ts6TWK0El5ohMkzANQ_Rd3E8PoBvh9U= |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:15:19 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Solar Panel efficiency declines about 1.5% a year. If you are going to go Solar, it is best to buy quality solar panels with the highest efficiency rating that you can afford. Panels are getting cheaper shortening the Pay Off Time (Cost of Solar System vs Annual Cost of Electrical Consumption from a Utility) Payoff times or Break even points still take years...but the greatest thing about a Solar System is peace of mind when it comes to Electrical Bills and if you have a good Battery System, you don't have to worry about power outages. If you live in a area that gets very hot like Arizona, Solar Panels are definately the way to go. Actually they create less power the hotter it is. A cold day and clear skies solar will run more efficient, the hotter it get, the less efficient it gets. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:16:55 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ran my ham station for three days on solar alone
http://api.zenfolio.com/cdn/pub/eieldhibnqvl/0/null/m/j8ifejeeqedplb9h9eu5/s5/v120/p227333194-4.jpg?sn=2YH&tk=Z_LUs_KqODq4ts6TWK0El5ohMkzANQ_Rd3E8PoBvh9U= Just for the hell of it, I ran my VHF/UHF station from solar for years. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:25:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's an interesting question. At a fixed cost of 11 cents per kilowatt hour over the next 25 years, my energy cost would be around $82,500. I priced a system (roof top won't do it... but I have land) to accomplish this, and the cost came in about $70-80k without including any tax credits. That included having to replace the batteries and inverters 3 times, and assumed a fixed battery and inverter cost. The solar panels themselves were rated at 30 years with loss of efficiency of 25% at that point. So it was fairly expensive upfront, but doable. The gamble is whether or not electricity price increase in the future (next 25 years), and do batteries and inverters drop in price. This system would allow me to be an energy glutton, so no mud hut deprivation needed. We're close. But no rooftop system will accomplish this. Some folks in this thread seem to be cheering for this endeavor to fail. I don't get it.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Between the cost of batteries, Inverters, pannels, controllers, and cables...are you really going to save any money in the end? What about winter time, when you get less sun. Have fun replacing your batteries when they die. With that said, I think that solar energy is pretty cool and I would likely do it if I though it was cost effective to run my entire home, which it isn't. Free energy really isn't free. This man knows what he is talking about. Anyone telling you any different does not have a system in their home that they can have a normal way of life with. That's an interesting question. At a fixed cost of 11 cents per kilowatt hour over the next 25 years, my energy cost would be around $82,500. I priced a system (roof top won't do it... but I have land) to accomplish this, and the cost came in about $70-80k without including any tax credits. That included having to replace the batteries and inverters 3 times, and assumed a fixed battery and inverter cost. The solar panels themselves were rated at 30 years with loss of efficiency of 25% at that point. So it was fairly expensive upfront, but doable. The gamble is whether or not electricity price increase in the future (next 25 years), and do batteries and inverters drop in price. This system would allow me to be an energy glutton, so no mud hut deprivation needed. We're close. But no rooftop system will accomplish this. Some folks in this thread seem to be cheering for this endeavor to fail. I don't get it.
from what i have seen, going with batteries destroys your ROI, if you want to eventually break even then put up a 10-15kw array and run the inverter directly to the grid. If you want backup power go get a 20kw multi fuel whole home generator. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:31:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Look at it this way... With batteries you have solar paying for itself whenever the power is on.
With a generator it costs a lot until it generates power, then it costs even more. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:36:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at it this way... With batteries you have solar paying for itself whenever the power is on. With a generator it costs a lot until it generates power, then it costs even more. it also depends on where you live. I live somewhere neither benefit much for the cost, (batteries and generator) i live less than a mile from the substation, and all utilities are underground to where i live. We have been here 3 years now and not had a single outage. I am also not planning to set my home up for SHTF, i will be getting the hell outta here when that happens
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:39:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reminds me of the water shortage in California years ago. LA water company went on a conserve water campaign. Problem is it worked so good that their revenues went down and had to raise water rates to raise more money. And they are still running out of water. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:41:29 PM EDT
[#36]
a SPECIFIC population of this site are haters and haters going to hate regardless
power yourself the way that best suits yourself ... I could give a fuck about subsidies / efficiency / mother gia as it effects the nation / world I just want my freezer /refrig and some lights to run I go with a multi headed triad : some small solar just to play with and charge the ups sircuts aka batteries a small wind turbine to offset line power costs a 100kw DD , 8kw propane , 5kw multi fuel oops its not a triad my bad |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:41:31 PM EDT
[#37]
We love solar here.
I rememberer when the power company investigated us for suspected theft of electricity. They came out and replaced our meter three times because they though there was a problem. If they had asked me up front " why are you using so little energy this year as compared to last year I would have told them. Solar Panels ...... battery banks .... inverters. Not to mention the solar clothes dryer that allowed us to disconnect the electric dryer. 99% of our lighting circuits are solar powered ..... battery at night, charge by solar during the day. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:44:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: from what i have seen, going with batteries destroys your ROI, if you want to eventually break even then put up a 10-15kw array and run the inverter directly to the grid. If you want backup power go get a 20kw multi fuel whole home generator. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Between the cost of batteries, Inverters, pannels, controllers, and cables...are you really going to save any money in the end? What about winter time, when you get less sun. Have fun replacing your batteries when they die. With that said, I think that solar energy is pretty cool and I would likely do it if I though it was cost effective to run my entire home, which it isn't. Free energy really isn't free. This man knows what he is talking about. Anyone telling you any different does not have a system in their home that they can have a normal way of life with. That's an interesting question. At a fixed cost of 11 cents per kilowatt hour over the next 25 years, my energy cost would be around $82,500. I priced a system (roof top won't do it... but I have land) to accomplish this, and the cost came in about $70-80k without including any tax credits. That included having to replace the batteries and inverters 3 times, and assumed a fixed battery and inverter cost. The solar panels themselves were rated at 30 years with loss of efficiency of 25% at that point. So it was fairly expensive upfront, but doable. The gamble is whether or not electricity price increase in the future (next 25 years), and do batteries and inverters drop in price. This system would allow me to be an energy glutton, so no mud hut deprivation needed. We're close. But no rooftop system will accomplish this. Some folks in this thread seem to be cheering for this endeavor to fail. I don't get it. from what i have seen, going with batteries destroys your ROI, if you want to eventually break even then put up a 10-15kw array and run the inverter directly to the grid. If you want backup power go get a 20kw multi fuel whole home generator. I've read a lot to. Which is why I did my own calculations. I suggest doing the calculations for yourself. Those were my cost based on my regional conditions. I ran it a few different ways, using different components which is why I have the price range. But those were my cost. The batteries were expensive, especially since I calculated for a large battery bank and assumed a 7 year life.
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:48:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My system is off grid BTW. nice. a freind of mine is too. the place I'm in now with the AC running i'm pulling 1.3-1.5 Kwh. if I had 10 panels and an inverter my electric bill would be nearly zero, |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:55:45 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. The real world has taught me that solar and turbines would not exist if the government didn't subsidize them. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:03:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The real world has taught me that solar and turbines would not exist if the government didn't subsidize them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Arfcom has taught me that renewable energy is evil and we should all be using coal and oil. It's a fact. The real world has taught me that solar and turbines would not exist if the government didn't subsidize them. no you live in fucking texas where KeithJ is basically the Atlas of Intelligence holding up the entire states IQ. Most of the people who live off grid do so because they want to and pay for it out of their own pocket. there are NO GOVERNMENT SUBSIDIES for going off grid. These days you can get a tax break for installing solar or buying certain types of vehicles but you don't get a check from the .gov for doing so. and before you run your hole about solar companies, all the major players were in it and producing panels long before O-tard took office. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:23:38 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish I knew more about solar power equipment and requirements to do it. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:24:43 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Like the oil companies and corn growers don't get theirs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yay, subsidies!
Like the oil companies and corn growers don't get theirs. Actually, the Oil companies receive NO subsidies whatsoever. That is a great leftard myth that they do. Oil pays a shit ton on net taxes to the treasury. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:31:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, the Oil companies receive NO subsidies whatsoever. That is a great leftard myth that they do. Oil pays a shit ton on net taxes to the treasury. I guess the $60,000,000-$170,000,000 a year that the oil industry spends on lobbying is wasted, then. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:34:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess the $60,000,000-$170,000,000 a year that the oil industry spends on lobbying is wasted, then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actually, the Oil companies receive NO subsidies whatsoever. That is a great leftard myth that they do. Oil pays a shit ton on net taxes to the treasury. I guess the $60,000,000-$170,000,000 a year that the oil industry spends on lobbying is wasted, then. But then again, I didn't know oil companies were in the power generation business... |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:35:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess the $60,000,000-$170,000,000 a year that the oil industry spends on lobbying is wasted, then. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Actually, the Oil companies receive NO subsidies whatsoever. That is a great leftard myth that they do. Oil pays a shit ton on net taxes to the treasury. I guess the $60,000,000-$170,000,000 a year that the oil industry spends on lobbying is wasted, then. Heaven forbid one of the most heavily regulated industries on the planet should have representation as new regulations are drafted........... |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:38:57 PM EDT
[#47]
What the libtards mostly refer to as subsidies are depreciation allowances and R and D tax credits that are provided to any and every business.
Solar and wind get direct subsidies in the form of direct payments from the treasury in addition to receiving the same deprecation and R and D credits the Oil Industy gets. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:42:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess the $60,000,000-$170,000,000 a year that the oil industry spends on lobbying is wasted, then. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Actually, the Oil companies receive NO subsidies whatsoever. That is a great leftard myth that they do. Oil pays a shit ton on net taxes to the treasury. I guess the $60,000,000-$170,000,000 a year that the oil industry spends on lobbying is wasted, then. Graft and corruption is okay, if you call it lobbying or politics. Theft is okay, if you call it taxes. Initiating violence, and violent coercion is okay if you call it law. Kidnapping is okay if you call it arrest. Socialism is okay if you call it entitlements, benefits, or safety nets. Counterfeiting is okay if you call it monetary policy. Collectivism and tyranny is terrific if you call it democracy. Language is a powerful tool. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:43:07 PM EDT
[#49]
I installed a 6.75 kW roof system last year. I did it to save money. I used a grid-tie system, which doesn't satisfy the SHTFers out there. I don't care. Our power cables are underground and we've only had two, 5 minute outages in the 3 1/2 years I've lived here. I didn't do a battery bank, because it would've added another $10-15K to the initial bill.
We plan to be in this house for a long time, so the payoff time is worth it to me. I have 27 panels at 250 Watts each. They have the standard warranty, which is that they are guaranteed to be providing 80% of the rated power when they are 25 years old. My capacity isn't quite enough to offset all of my historical power usage, because my roof wasn't quite big enough. The system cost $24K to install, and includes net metering with our local utility. After tax credits (which I got on my 2013 return), the cost was $14K. Prior to solar, my annual power bill has been $2050/year. This is the average over the last 3 years. Our rates have increased about 2%/year, although the utility always asks for more, sometimes as high as 7-8% increases. This year, my total bill is $350. I've saved $1700 this year. $14K/$1700 = 8.24 years to break even. However, when you consider annual rate increases, even only 2%, the payback time shortens. Someone more clever than me can probably calculate this based on the rate increases. For those of you who don't like solar for political, philosophical, practical or for any other reasons, or just irrationally hate everything, that's fine. Don't do it. It's my money, and I'm choosing to spend it this way. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 1:47:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I installed a 6.75 kW roof system last year. I did it to save money. I used a grid-tie system, which doesn't satisfy the SHTFers out there. I don't care. Our power cables are underground and we've only had two, 5 minute outages in the 3 1/2 years I've lived here. I didn't do a battery bank, because it would've added another $10-15K to the initial bill. We plan to be in this house for a long time, so the payoff time is worth it to me. I have 27 panels at 250 Watts each. They have the standard warranty, which is that they are guaranteed to be providing 80% of the rated power when they are 25 years old. My capacity isn't quite enough to offset all of my historical power usage, because my roof wasn't quite big enough. The system cost $24K to install, and includes net metering with our local utility. After tax credits (which I got on my 2013 return), the cost was $14K. Prior to solar, my annual power bill has been $2050/year. This is the average over the last 3 years. Our rates have increased about 2%/year, although the utility always asks for more, sometimes as high as 7-8% increases. This year, my total bill is $350. I've saved $1700 this year. $14K/$1700 = 8.24 years to break even. However, when you consider annual rate increases, even only 2%, the payback time shortens. Someone more clever than me can probably calculate this based on the rate increases. For those of you who don't like solar for political, philosophical, practical or for any other reasons, or just irrationally hate everything, that's fine. Don't do it. It's my money, and I'm choosing to spend it this way. If I lived in a place like Utah where I got plenty of sunshine, I would consider it as a viable alternative. |
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