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From what I read, the Chief said he wasn't close enough to check for a pulse. So I don't think he was close enough to try and wake him.

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From what I read, the Chief said he wasn't close enough to check for a pulse. So I don't think he was close enough to try and wake him.

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I think that was a reference to a less than complete demolition job, rather than the crash, and I think someone else pointed that out earlier.

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No one in this thread has "zero respect" for SEALs.  No one has accused them of being "treasonous" or compared them to Snowden.

Quoted:
Youve known some seals, and they have put more classified laptops and hard drives into enemy hands than Snowden did.

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I clearly pointed out that the teams are far superior to Mr Snowden, who is also a hero here ar15.com. They also gave china, pakistan, and russia, a helicopter loaded with our latest equipment.

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The life expectancy of a thread like this on a forum like Lightfighter?

Milliseconds.  

Quoted:


Did you read the thread or just my posts?





Maybe I should practice my reading comprehension.

What "team" ,Green or Blue, do you think was flying those SneakyHawks.

To blame the loss of that helicopter on the SEAL team is a perfect example of the bias some have here in GD.

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Lightfighter is its own goat rope. Bunch of one termers that think they are still in the fight because they are now a municipal cop in the burbs.

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Yo John,

Have you ever been involved in planning a military operation? 5 paragraph Op Order for a flag football game? Anything at all?

Most of the guys here with tanks have. And that's where our criticism comes from. The mission was fucked up in it's planning (specifically the decision to land a helo right on the objective), which caused the execution to get fucked up. And why was the decision made? Because Seals are great at missions like that. They have experience doing missions like that and their staff has experience planning missions like that. So they didn't see the problem with landing a helo on the mountaintop because that's how it's done in ops like the OBL raid. Put a Ranger or SF officer in that briefing room and they would have raised holy hell over it.

Here's how it works for the Army. Infantry company gets tasked to set up an OP on a mountain. The company does the planning. At the very least, the platoon leader and platoon sergeants for the platoon doing the mission are involved at looking at the map and planning it.

SF company get tasked for same mission. The entire team works out the CONOP and sends it to higher.

In both of those examples, about 87% of the planning is done at the ground level. At the very least, it's done by experienced officers and NCOs that know what they're doing.

Seals do not plan that way. They walk into a briefing room or tent and get handed a 87% complete plan and told to run with it. Why? Because that's not how they were trained. Because planning operations isn't fun or sexy and the teams have no interest in it. I've seen this first hand with seals, downrange and in training. Seals were sent to work a joint op with a SF company (I am NOT SF, and not claiming to be, I was a intel support guy assigned to a SF company downrange where I was present for a lot of planning). The SF team involved and the B team (that's the company staff, all SF guys also) brought them in to plan and the Seal team lead told them 'We don't waste our time with that shit, come find me when it's time to do mission brief', then walked out.

I saw the same thing in training. Seals were at Ft Polk for JRTC. Seal teams get briefed on their mission (get dropped off here, walk here, hit the safe house, then call for pickup). A Navy intel guy in a tent told them where they are getting dropped off and what route to take while coming in on foot. That team ended up walking through waist deep swamp and bitched nonstop during debrief. Sure the intel guy fucked that up, but why didn't the team lead catch that? 'Umm sir, that's a lot of swamp on that route. Why don't we go this way?'

Quoted:

I have a feeling that one of these days, you will learn a few things that will cause you to look back at this thread with great embarrassment.

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Listen there is no shame in the fact you do not understand tactics, operational planning and execution. There is no dishonor in that, if you have not served, but to keep beating the proverbial dead horse on something you fail to grasp, those were both entirely different. The basic point here and it is not meant as a slam or disrespect to the seal community, but while being real good at small team tactics for what their trained for, in a sense rescue, snatch and grabs their tops, but in the ground fighting arena they don't have basic infantry trading and it shows in their planning as well as execution. Their out of their element in ground battles, and the longer their on the ground fighting these battles the more the cracks appear and widen. Now have them do what their trained for their second to none, let them bust down doors, grab bad guys, interrogate them what ever, but if your going to put them on the ground and keep them there then give the infantry skills they need, this goes for their whole comnand stricter, this the reason I believe DELTA is the superior force, they have worked their way up through steps of the ladder, same for all of the Rangers and SF.

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Was he holding a pistol to the pilot's head like in Lone Survivor?

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I didn't know your username before this thread, but now I do know whose posts should be skipped over.

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Well I do get in the way of a good GD SEAL bash.

You paid for an ignore button, give me a click.

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Nah.  Never used it.

Brain finally associated the name.from other forums.  You're that TV long range rifle guy.
Have you found internet pissing  contests to be good for business?

Edit:  Correcting auto correct...

Quoted:
Yo John,

Have you ever been involved in planning a military operation? 5 paragraph Op Order for a flag football game? Anything at all?

Most of the guys here with tanks have. And that's where our criticism comes from. The mission was fucked up in it's planning (specifically the decision to land a helo right on the objective), which caused the execution to get fucked up. And why was the decision made? Because Seals are great at missions like that. They have experience doing missions like that and their staff has experience planning missions like that. So they didn't see the problem with landing a helo on the mountaintop because that's how it's done in ops like the OBL raid. Put a Ranger or SF officer in that briefing room and they would have raised holy hell over it.

Here's how it works for the Army. Infantry company gets tasked to set up an OP on a mountain. The company does the planning. At the very least, the platoon leader and platoon sergeants for the platoon doing the mission are involved at looking at the map and planning it.

SF company get tasked for same mission. The entire team works out the CONOP and sends it to higher.

In both of those examples, about 87% of the planning is done at the ground level. At the very least, it's done by experienced officers and NCOs that know what they're doing.

Seals do not plan that way. They walk into a briefing room or tent and get handed a 87% complete plan and told to run with it. Why? Because that's not how they were trained. Because planning operations isn't fun or sexy and the teams have no interest in it. I've seen this first hand with seals, downrange and in training. Seals were sent to work a joint op with a SF company (I am NOT SF, and not claiming to be, I was a intel support guy assigned to a SF company downrange where I was present for a lot of planning). The SF team involved and the B team (that's the company staff, all SF guys also) brought them in to plan and the Seal team lead told them 'We don't waste our time with that shit, come find me when it's time to do mission brief', then walked out.

I saw the same thing in training. Seals were at Ft Polk for JRTC. Seal teams get briefed on their mission (get dropped off here, walk here, hit the safe house, then call for pickup). A Navy intel guy in a tent told them where they are getting dropped off and what route to take while coming in on foot. That team ended up walking through waist deep swamp and bitched nonstop during debrief. Sure the intel guy fucked that up, but why didn't the team lead catch that? 'Umm sir, that's a lot of swamp on that route. Why don't we go this way?'

Quoted:
I watched that scene and no more. Make one of the few people who didnt fuck up that day look like a coward and gave medals to the guys who fucked up and got him killed

So yeah.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Quoted:
Yo John,

Have you ever been involved in planning a military operation? 5 paragraph Op Order for a flag football game? Anything at all?

Most of the guys here with tanks have. And that's where our criticism comes from. The mission was fucked up in it's planning (specifically the decision to land a helo right on the objective), which caused the execution to get fucked up. And why was the decision made? Because Seals are great at missions like that. They have experience doing missions like that and their staff has experience planning missions like that. So they didn't see the problem with landing a helo on the mountaintop because that's how it's done in ops like the OBL raid. Put a Ranger or SF officer in that briefing room and they would have raised holy hell over it.

Here's how it works for the Army. Infantry company gets tasked to set up an OP on a mountain. The company does the planning. At the very least, the platoon leader and platoon sergeants for the platoon doing the mission are involved at looking at the map and planning it.

SF company get tasked for same mission. The entire team works out the CONOP and sends it to higher.

In both of those examples, about 87% of the planning is done at the ground level. At the very least, it's done by experienced officers and NCOs that know what they're doing.

Seals do not plan that way. They walk into a briefing room or tent and get handed a 87% complete plan and told to run with it. Why? Because that's not how they were trained. Because planning operations isn't fun or sexy and the teams have no interest in it. I've seen this first hand with seals, downrange and in training. Seals were sent to work a joint op with a SF company (I am NOT SF, and not claiming to be, I was a intel support guy assigned to a SF company downrange where I was present for a lot of planning). The SF team involved and the B team (that's the company staff, all SF guys also) brought them in to plan and the Seal team lead told them 'We don't waste our time with that shit, come find me when it's time to do mission brief', then walked out.

I saw the same thing in training. Seals were at Ft Polk for JRTC. Seal teams get briefed on their mission (get dropped off here, walk here, hit the safe house, then call for pickup). A Navy intel guy in a tent told them where they are getting dropped off and what route to take while coming in on foot. That team ended up walking through waist deep swamp and bitched nonstop during debrief. Sure the intel guy fucked that up, but why didn't the team lead catch that? 'Umm sir, that's a lot of swamp on that route. Why don't we go this way?'

Quoted:

Now you pissed me off.  pilot was my classmate and a great man and officer.  Better than me certainly


Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Quoted:
No one in this thread has "zero respect" for SEALs.  No one has accused them of being "treasonous" or compared them to Snowden.

Quoted:
Youve known some seals, and they have put more classified laptops and hard drives into enemy hands than Snowden did.

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I clearly pointed out that the teams are far superior to Mr Snowden, who is also a hero here ar15.com. They also gave china, pakistan, and russia, a helicopter loaded with our latest equipment.

Quoted:

TL/DR: SF shouldn't be sniping pirates from a moving ship. SEALS shouldn't be on mountains in landlocked countries. And JohnBurns thinks that frequent balls on his nose make him a SEAL expert.

Quoted:


Would 8 weeks at Benning or the Marines equivalent be beneficial?  My friend was Force Recon.   And I know he did Arborne and Ranger School at Army facilities.

From what I've read here sounds like the SEALs handle much of their training in house.

Quoted:
Yo John,

Have you ever been involved in planning a military operation? 5 paragraph Op Order for a flag football game? Anything at all?

Most of the guys here with tanks have. And that's where our criticism comes from. The mission was fucked up in it's planning (specifically the decision to land a helo right on the objective), which caused the execution to get fucked up. And why was the decision made? Because Seals are great at missions like that. They have experience doing missions like that and their staff has experience planning missions like that. So they didn't see the problem with landing a helo on the mountaintop because that's how it's done in ops like the OBL raid. Put a Ranger or SF officer in that briefing room and they would have raised holy hell over it.

Here's how it works for the Army. Infantry company gets tasked to set up an OP on a mountain. The company does the planning. At the very least, the platoon leader and platoon sergeants for the platoon doing the mission are involved at looking at the map and planning it.

SF company get tasked for same mission. The entire team works out the CONOP and sends it to higher.

In both of those examples, about 87% of the planning is done at the ground level. At the very least, it's done by experienced officers and NCOs that know what they're doing.

Seals do not plan that way. They walk into a briefing room or tent and get handed a 87% complete plan and told to run with it. Why? Because that's not how they were trained. Because planning operations isn't fun or sexy and the teams have no interest in it. I've seen this first hand with seals, downrange and in training. Seals were sent to work a joint op with a SF company (I am NOT SF, and not claiming to be, I was a intel support guy assigned to a SF company downrange where I was present for a lot of planning). The SF team involved and the B team (that's the company staff, all SF guys also) brought them in to plan and the Seal team lead told them 'We don't waste our time with that shit, come find me when it's time to do mission brief', then walked out.

I saw the same thing in training. Seals were at Ft Polk for JRTC. Seal teams get briefed on their mission (get dropped off here, walk here, hit the safe house, then call for pickup). A Navy intel guy in a tent told them where they are getting dropped off and what route to take while coming in on foot. That team ended up walking through waist deep swamp and bitched nonstop during debrief. Sure the intel guy fucked that up, but why didn't the team lead catch that? 'Umm sir, that's a lot of swamp on that route. Why don't we go this way?'

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Right in the op. Crawled atop him.

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The fact that the Squids hit a home run goes against the GD narrative that SEALs are frat boys at best and worse than Snowden  at worst.

That is my point.

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Because I was in Afghanistan working for another SEAL team at the time.  Why didn't they call you again?

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A tale as old as time, so far as I can tell.

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Would 8 weeks at Benning or the Marines equivalent be beneficial?  My friend was Force Recon.   And I know he did Arborne and Ranger School at Army facilities.

From what I've read here sounds like the SEALs handle much of their training in house.

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Wait, wut?  Home run?

They crashed a top secret bird, flubbed the demo on it, and it was in China hours later.

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Ain't that the truth.

Both statements

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"The new account of Sergeant Chapman’s last act reopens old wounds for SEAL Team 6, the elite Navy unit that would later kill Osama bin Laden. The findings could rekindle tensions between Team 6 and other Special Operations organizations that lost men in the March 4, 2002, mission, which they felt the SEALs had planned and executed poorly, according to current and former military officials."

That's their fucking MO. They roll into missions with the mindset of, "We're SEALS, fuck METT-TSL"

ETA: No fucking shit. "the SEALs had “violated a basic tenet of reconnaissance” by landing directly on their observation post instead of hiking up to it."

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Navy SEAL's halo in, halo out...

You know, give me a couple dozen Lance Corporal and a 100 million a year for ops and gear and I could assemble the most daring daring unit to walk the earth.


Said LCpl's will not at any time have a good conduct medel.

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