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Posted: 10/1/2014 12:30:39 PM EDT
[#1]
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Personally I wouldn't have dove in to my vehicle for my ID for this very reason. I would let the trooper know that my ID was in my vehicle and ask if it would be ok if I retrieved it. Nonetheless I believe the trooper handled the situation poorly to say the least. As has been pointed out, the guy was probably reacting instinctively rather than logically. His feet had barely hit the pavement before the officer clearly surprised him wanting ID. I would bet he didn't have a firm grasp on the situation yet. Speculation, all. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 12:56:18 PM EDT
[#2]
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As has been pointed out, the guy was probably reacting instinctively rather than logically. His feet had barely hit the pavement before the officer clearly surprised him wanting ID. I would bet he didn't have a firm grasp on the situation yet. Speculation, all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Personally I wouldn't have dove in to my vehicle for my ID for this very reason. I would let the trooper know that my ID was in my vehicle and ask if it would be ok if I retrieved it. Nonetheless I believe the trooper handled the situation poorly to say the least. As has been pointed out, the guy was probably reacting instinctively rather than logically. His feet had barely hit the pavement before the officer clearly surprised him wanting ID. I would bet he didn't have a firm grasp on the situation yet. Speculation, all. Or he was more than happy to comply with the officer's commands. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 1:01:00 PM EDT
[#3]
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As has been pointed out, the guy was probably reacting instinctively rather than logically. His feet had barely hit the pavement before the officer clearly surprised him wanting ID. I would bet he didn't have a firm grasp on the situation yet. Speculation, all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Personally I wouldn't have dove in to my vehicle for my ID for this very reason. I would let the trooper know that my ID was in my vehicle and ask if it would be ok if I retrieved it. Nonetheless I believe the trooper handled the situation poorly to say the least. As has been pointed out, the guy was probably reacting instinctively rather than logically. His feet had barely hit the pavement before the officer clearly surprised him wanting ID. I would bet he didn't have a firm grasp on the situation yet. Speculation, all. If the cop didn't know where his license was and didn't want him reaching into his vehicle the cop should have first asked him "where is your license?" Then after the guy reached into his car, if the cops reaction was going to be to shoot him for then exiting his car he shouldn't have commanded him "Get out of the car!" The cop is a fucking retard. The victim did nothing but do exactly as he was ordered to do, nothing more, nothing less. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 1:11:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Clearly the guy who was shot was in the wrong. When the trooper asked for his DL the guy instinctively went for his holstered gun on his hip. You can tell this by the way he put his hands up in the video. He is a trained shooter and was starting off the way he normally does in competitions with his hands up. As soon as he realized it wasn't there he then went into his vehicle to retrieve his gun so that he could kill the trooper and not go back to jail. The trooper was acting in self defense as he was in fear of death or GBH.
<sarcasm> |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 5:28:02 PM EDT
[#5]
I was waiting for this thread to reach page 20 before i posted in it. The gas station where this occured is on the exit of my neighborhood, and the guy shot lives in the neighborhood. Here is a pic to help illustrate the positioning of the vehicles in comparison to the size of the parkinglot. I looked for where the other 3 rounds may have ended up, but I'm guessing two went into the durango and maybe the last one may have ended up in a building across the way.
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Posted: 10/1/2014 6:16:20 PM EDT
[#6]
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I was waiting for this thread to reach page 20 before i posted in it. The gas station where this occured is on the exit of my neighborhood, and the guy shot lives in the neighborhood. Here is a pic to help illustrate the positioning of the vehicles in comparison to the size of the parkinglot. I looked for where the other 3 rounds may have ended up, but I'm guessing two went into the durango and maybe the last one may have ended up in a building across the way. http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/Saturnsport8k/C9D1F84D-1DE4-4265-9265-677B7BBC2FFE_zps2p4nethu.jpg Do you know the victim? Take him some brownies and a "Get well soon card" 
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Posted: 10/1/2014 6:30:34 PM EDT
[#7]
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Unfortunately, not everyone, including officers, are calm, cool, and collected in these encounters. I've made mistakes and given contradictory or unclear commands at times. Thankfully, I was informed of or realized my mistake and never shot anyone over it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Personally I wouldn't have dove in to my vehicle for my ID for this very reason. I would let the trooper know that my ID was in my vehicle and ask if it would be ok if I retrieved it. Nonetheless I believe the trooper handled the situation poorly to say the least. Not everyone is cut out to be a cop. And some of them remind us everyday in GD why |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 6:57:10 PM EDT
[#8]
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Do you know the victim? Take him some brownies and a "Get well soon card" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was waiting for this thread to reach page 20 before i posted in it. The gas station where this occured is on the exit of my neighborhood, and the guy shot lives in the neighborhood. Here is a pic to help illustrate the positioning of the vehicles in comparison to the size of the parkinglot. I looked for where the other 3 rounds may have ended up, but I'm guessing two went into the durango and maybe the last one may have ended up in a building across the way. http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/Saturnsport8k/C9D1F84D-1DE4-4265-9265-677B7BBC2FFE_zps2p4nethu.jpg Do you know the victim? Take him some brownies and a "Get well soon card" Do they got weed in em? Wooo! Seriously tho, I dont know him, but i've seen him before. I pass his place on the way out of the neighborhood. I havent seen his truck recently, so maybe he is recooperating somewhere else. My wife and kids were walking to Sonic to get ice cream when it happened. I knew who it was when she described his truck to me. Again, i dont know the guy, never met him, but i've seen him around. He does live on one of the "less desirable" streets here (where 98% of all the crime in the neighborhood originates), so our first reaction was it was likely a good shoot. But we decided to hold our tongues and wait for the facts to come out. I will say this about the mindset of the trooper: if he did this because he was jumpy about the characters in this area, he has good reason to be. The guy shot probably isnt that type, but there's a lot more baddies on his block than good, and his car is easily identifiable as coming from that area. Any cop that knows that area, and can identify its habitants by their vehicles, should be on condition yellow-to-red during any interaction with them. It is so bad that many of us have discussed buying the properties up to clean out the riffraff. That all said, bad shoot. You cant just tell the guy to show you his ID, open fire before identifying a threat, and then lie to your boss about what transpired. |
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Posted: 10/1/2014 6:59:19 PM EDT
[#9]
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I was waiting for this thread to reach page 20 before i posted in it. The gas station where this occured is on the exit of my neighborhood, and the guy shot lives in the neighborhood. Here is a pic to help illustrate the positioning of the vehicles in comparison to the size of the parkinglot. I looked for where the other 3 rounds may have ended up, but I'm guessing two went into the durango and maybe the last one may have ended up in a building across the way. http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/Saturnsport8k/C9D1F84D-1DE4-4265-9265-677B7BBC2FFE_zps2p4nethu.jpg You live in the hood bro. 
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Posted: 10/1/2014 7:14:54 PM EDT
[#10]
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You live in the hood bro. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I was waiting for this thread to reach page 20 before i posted in it. The gas station where this occured is on the exit of my neighborhood, and the guy shot lives in the neighborhood. Here is a pic to help illustrate the positioning of the vehicles in comparison to the size of the parkinglot. I looked for where the other 3 rounds may have ended up, but I'm guessing two went into the durango and maybe the last one may have ended up in a building across the way. http://i1285.photobucket.com/albums/a600/Saturnsport8k/C9D1F84D-1DE4-4265-9265-677B7BBC2FFE_zps2p4nethu.jpg You live in the hood bro. What you think all these guns are for? Lol We are currently... "in an upward transition". ::cough::gentrification::cough::
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Posted: 10/4/2014 3:51:49 AM EDT
[#11]
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1) trial by jury. Based on evidence, if PTSD, guilty with leniency. 2) public lynching after kangaroo court..... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So Arfcops. 1. What should happen to one of your brothers? 2. What is likely to happen? 1) trial by jury. Based on evidence, if PTSD, guilty with leniency. 2) public lynching after kangaroo court..... You're ducking kidding right |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:22:46 AM EDT
[#12]
Did the entire 51 minute dash cam video ever get posted where the officer is on the phone with his supervisor stating the guy who got shot was charging him and would not stop so he had to shoot?
http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/10/03/4516433/longer-video-shows-more-on-shooting.html Sounds like police had him cuffed to a bed in the hospital, police officer was then pulled off guarding him at around 8:30pm, but left without uncuffing him, then the officer returned after midnight after he realized he left the hospital without his handcuffs. 
"The video evidence does not lie," Rutherford told ‘The Today Show.' "What does lie is Trooper Groubert's statement. That was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing, was listening to Trooper Groubert state that Mr. Jones was aggressive, that his stance towards Groubert was aggressive, that he approached the patrol car in an aggressive manner that was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing." |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 11:40:55 AM EDT
[#13]
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Did the entire 51 minute dash cam video ever get posted where the officer is on the phone with his supervisor stating the guy who got shot was charging him and would not stop so he had to shoot? http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/10/03/4516433/longer-video-shows-more-on-shooting.html Sounds like police had him cuffed to a bed in the hospital, police officer was then pulled off guarding him at around 8:30pm, but left without uncuffing him, then the officer returned after midnight after he realized he left the hospital without his handcuffs.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did the entire 51 minute dash cam video ever get posted where the officer is on the phone with his supervisor stating the guy who got shot was charging him and would not stop so he had to shoot? http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/10/03/4516433/longer-video-shows-more-on-shooting.html Sounds like police had him cuffed to a bed in the hospital, police officer was then pulled off guarding him at around 8:30pm, but left without uncuffing him, then the officer returned after midnight after he realized he left the hospital without his handcuffs.
"The video evidence does not lie," Rutherford told ‘The Today Show.' "What does lie is Trooper Groubert's statement. That was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing, was listening to Trooper Groubert state that Mr. Jones was aggressive, that his stance towards Groubert was aggressive, that he approached the patrol car in an aggressive manner that was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing." I missed this. Horrific and I hope he gets an extremely stiff sentence |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 11:48:50 AM EDT
[#14]
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Sounds like the department handled it correctly. But charges need to be filed. I'm no hater of police but that was beyond unacceptable. Only his lack of skill saved that mans life. And PTSD shouldn't even be admissible. Has nothing to do with this incident. I sincerely hope he goes to prison for many years. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No question it's a bad shoot. What's interesting is that he had been involved in a previous shooting that was clean (was actually taking rounds from the bad guy prior to the shoot). While I expect he'll be convicted, I'll be interested to see how possible PTSD works into this, and what charge he ends up with. THIS is why PTSD in cops is a serious (but generally ignored) issue... it can result in a very bad thing happening to an innocent man. BTW, for all the basement-dwelling, mouth-breathing cop haters out there, no favoritism was shown in the case, nor was anything covered up. Rule of law in action. Sounds like the department handled it correctly. But charges need to be filed. I'm no hater of police but that was beyond unacceptable. Only his lack of skill saved that mans life. And PTSD shouldn't even be admissible. Has nothing to do with this incident. I sincerely hope he goes to prison for many years. You know how many people have ptsd including cops? You how many have "snaped" vs non ptsd? Your assessment is flawed but thanks painting with a broad brush. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 12:12:42 PM EDT
[#15]
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Did the entire 51 minute dash cam video ever get posted where the officer is on the phone with his supervisor stating the guy who got shot was charging him and would not stop so he had to shoot? http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/10/03/4516433/longer-video-shows-more-on-shooting.html Sounds like police had him cuffed to a bed in the hospital, police officer was then pulled off guarding him at around 8:30pm, but left without uncuffing him, then the officer returned after midnight after he realized he left the hospital without his handcuffs.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did the entire 51 minute dash cam video ever get posted where the officer is on the phone with his supervisor stating the guy who got shot was charging him and would not stop so he had to shoot? http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/10/03/4516433/longer-video-shows-more-on-shooting.html Sounds like police had him cuffed to a bed in the hospital, police officer was then pulled off guarding him at around 8:30pm, but left without uncuffing him, then the officer returned after midnight after he realized he left the hospital without his handcuffs.
"The video evidence does not lie," Rutherford told ‘The Today Show.' "What does lie is Trooper Groubert's statement. That was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing, was listening to Trooper Groubert state that Mr. Jones was aggressive, that his stance towards Groubert was aggressive, that he approached the patrol car in an aggressive manner that was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing." I just read all that, wow. Not only did he shoot an unarmed man who was complying witn his orders, but went on to fabricate a bs story about the guy being aggressive 
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Posted: 10/4/2014 12:49:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I broke my arm in a motorcycle accident earlier this month, so yeah, I've had a bit of free time while I've been recovering. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? Lol most likely. You'd think with such a high paying job he'd be to busy for all his petty bashing. I guess when you reach his status you have all the time and experience you need to use google. It also seems that he watches a lot of TV. I broke my arm in a motorcycle accident earlier this month, so yeah, I've had a bit of free time while I've been recovering. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 1:04:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only hits count in an assault charge. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Well he did get arrested so one day there will be trial or a deal. I find it interesting we actually have a shoot like this and it's basically quite on the news media front. I think he might get away with the first shot but I don't think the follow up ones will fly. Be interesting to know which shot actually struck him. If he got hit the first time good possibility a jury will find not guilty. Out of curiosity, why does it matter which shot resulted in the hit? He certainly intended for all 4 rounds to hit the guy. Only hits count in an assault charge. Assault with a deadly weapon too? |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 3:13:59 PM EDT
[#18]
I didn't watch the 50 minute video.
The transcript in the news story seems to match the short video. It's still a bad shoot but the guy did dive back into the vehicle. Obviously the trooper perceived it as "aggressive" or he wouldn't have fired. Unless there is more in the video, to call that a lie seems to be a stretch. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 3:24:44 PM EDT
[#19]
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I didn't watch the 50 minute video. The transcript in the news story seems to match the short video. It's still a bad shoot but the guy did dive back into the vehicle. Obviously the trooper perceived it as "aggressive" or he wouldn't have fired. Unless there is more in the video, to call that a lie seems to be a stretch. Plus the trooper is only talkng about his perception. As an investigator I am used to police witnesses not being 100% in sync with other witnesses or video due to stress. It doesn't mean they are lying...stress does funny things to a persons perception. I recently had it happen to me during a shooting. There were parts of the incident I wasn't sure of because of stress and tunnel vision. Didn't mean I was lying about what I remembered with stuff I did or didn't remember. Just like the stuff I saw and perceived that other guys missed due to their stress and tunnel vision. The mind is a funny thing when it is stressed. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 4:07:07 PM EDT
[#20]
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The mind is a funny thing when it is stressed. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Any investigator understands this. GD on the other hand, .
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Posted: 10/4/2014 4:12:55 PM EDT
[#21]
Sarge I've been involved in a shooting. I'm safe. Calling my PBA attorney next.
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Posted: 10/4/2014 4:14:34 PM EDT
[#22]
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Any investigator understands this. GD on the other hand, .
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The mind is a funny thing when it is stressed. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Any investigator understands this. GD on the other hand, .
If that is a valid excuse, then it should go both ways. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 4:26:53 PM EDT
[#23]
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If that is a valid excuse, then it should go both ways. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The mind is a funny thing when it is stressed. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Any investigator understands this. GD on the other hand, .
If that is a valid excuse, then it should go both ways. It does. I have debriefed hundreds of force on force scenarios, where the participants couldn't tell me who did what, when. I have investigated many cases where the witness statements did not match the physical evidence. It is well understood that eyewitnesses are the least dependable form of evidence. It isn't necessarily the case that people are lying, just that they have differing perceptions. Stress, especially the fear of dying, can skew peoples perception. Graham-v-Connor "The “reasonableness” of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the “20/20 vision of hindsight.” |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 4:27:07 PM EDT
[#24]
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Plus the trooper is only talkng about his perception. As an investigator I am used to police witnesses not being 100% in sync with other witnesses or video due to stress. It doesn't mean they are lying...stress does funny things to a persons perception. I recently had it happen to me during a shooting. There were parts of the incident I wasn't sure of because of stress and tunnel vision. Didn't mean I was lying about what I remembered with stuff I did or didn't remember. Just like the stuff I saw and perceived that other guys missed due to their stress and tunnel vision. The mind is a funny thing when it is stressed. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't watch the 50 minute video. The transcript in the news story seems to match the short video. It's still a bad shoot but the guy did dive back into the vehicle. Obviously the trooper perceived it as "aggressive" or he wouldn't have fired. Unless there is more in the video, to call that a lie seems to be a stretch. Plus the trooper is only talkng about his perception. As an investigator I am used to police witnesses not being 100% in sync with other witnesses or video due to stress. It doesn't mean they are lying...stress does funny things to a persons perception. I recently had it happen to me during a shooting. There were parts of the incident I wasn't sure of because of stress and tunnel vision. Didn't mean I was lying about what I remembered with stuff I did or didn't remember. Just like the stuff I saw and perceived that other guys missed due to their stress and tunnel vision. The mind is a funny thing when it is stressed. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile All bullshit crap aside. What do you automatically think when someone who you suspect of a crime gives you a statement that contradicts with when the evidence later shows to be the truth? Do you just chalk that up to perception or do include in your report that the perp lied about what happened? Do you believe that the police have a code of silence when investigating crimes of other officers or is that just something that cop haters make up? 
Serious question BTW. Edited because I don't want to hurt anyone's feels. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 4:58:05 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:01:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuote HistorySo you are saying that when someone denies committing a crime, they may actually believe they are telling the truth even when the video proves otherwise? |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:06:53 PM EDT
[#27]
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It does. I have debriefed hundreds of force on force scenarios, where the participants couldn't tell me who did what, when. I have investigated many cases where the witness statements did not match the physical evidence. It is well understood that eyewitnesses are the least dependable form of evidence. It isn't necessarily the case that people are lying, just that they have differing perceptions. Stress, especially the fear of dying, can skew peoples perception. Graham-v-Connor "The “reasonableness” of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the “20/20 vision of hindsight.” Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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The mind is a funny thing when it is stressed. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Any investigator understands this. GD on the other hand, .
If that is a valid excuse, then it should go both ways. It does. I have debriefed hundreds of force on force scenarios, where the participants couldn't tell me who did what, when. I have investigated many cases where the witness statements did not match the physical evidence. It is well understood that eyewitnesses are the least dependable form of evidence. It isn't necessarily the case that people are lying, just that they have differing perceptions. Stress, especially the fear of dying, can skew peoples perception. Graham-v-Connor "The “reasonableness” of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the “20/20 vision of hindsight.” Perhaps I misunderstood the angle of your original statement. I was stressed and nervous after being pulled over and having a gun pointed at me so I turned to the car extremely quickly in order to comply with the officer. I was stressed and nervous so I shot the guy that turned to his car too quickly. In which scenario does it make the action justified? One perspective, the person did literally nothing wrong. The other perspective , which is possibly ruled justified, allowed the officer to shoot a man. This is where we rely on the fact that LEO are professionals and are able to handle themselves under stress. If they are not professionals, then they should not be police officers. I think you agree that this officer should not be a police officer, so it's a moot point and not an argument with you, I am just pointing out the logical fallacy about stress being an acceptable factor depending on perspective. The same goes for PTSD. It is NOT an acceptable excuse for actions. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:09:12 PM EDT
[#28]
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So you are saying that when someone denies committing a crime, they may actually believe they are telling the truth even when the video proves otherwise? Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you are saying that when someone denies committing a crime, they may actually believe they are telling the truth even when the video proves otherwise? I'm saying that stress effects peoples perceptions and ability to recall. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:16:31 PM EDT
[#29]
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Perhaps I misunderstood the angle of your original statement. I was stressed and nervous after being pulled over and having a gun pointed at me so I turned to the car extremely quickly in order to comply with the officer. I was stressed and nervous so I shot the guy that turned to his car too quickly. In which scenario does it make the action justified? One perspective, the person did literally nothing wrong. The other perspective , which is possibly ruled justified, allowed the officer to shoot a man. This is where we rely on the fact that LEO are professionals and are able to handle themselves under stress. If they are not professionals, then they should not be police officers. I think you agree that this officer should not be a police officer, so it's a moot point and not an argument with you, I am just pointing out the logical fallacy about stress being an acceptable factor depending on perspective. The same goes for PTSD. It is NOT an acceptable excuse for actions. My post was only related to the accusation that the officer lied in his statement. I have not watched the 50 minute video or heard or read his official statement. I didn't see anything in the news transcript that would be very different from the way that the officer claims to have perceived the events. The mention of stress was to give some perspective on his statements, not to justify the shooting. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 5:54:56 PM EDT
[#30]
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Perhaps I misunderstood the angle of your original statement. I was stressed and nervous after being pulled over and having a gun pointed at me so I turned to the car extremely quickly in order to comply with the officer. I was stressed and nervous so I shot the guy that turned to his car too quickly My post was only related to the accusation that the officer lied in his statement. I have not watched the 50 minute video or heard or read his official statement. I didn't see anything in the news transcript that would be very different from the way that the officer claims to have perceived the events. The mention of stress was to give some perspective on his statements, not to justify the shooting. This. And we take that stress into account when interviewing other folks also. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 6:03:04 PM EDT
[#31]
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No question it's a bad shoot. What's interesting is that he had been involved in a previous shooting that was clean (was actually taking rounds from the bad guy prior to the shoot). While I expect he'll be convicted, I'll be interested to see how possible PTSD works into this, and what charge he ends up with. THIS is why PTSD in cops is a serious (but generally ignored) issue... it can result in a very bad thing happening to an innocent man. BTW, for all the basement-dwelling, mouth-breathing cop haters out there, no favoritism was shown in the case, nor was anything covered up. Rule of law in action. I agree with you up to a point. However, I won't call it "rule of law in action" until the same thing that would happen to me if I shot somebody for no good reason, happens to him. Losing his job is just the first step, the one necessary to protect the public. As for PTSD as an ameliorative factor, I don't know. Let's not forget that cops are not soldiers- if they don't like the job, or have problems with it, they can leave at any time, and do something else. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 6:13:39 PM EDT
[#32]
Still not the 51 minute video but this news video plays the part of the video where the fired officer tells his supervisor that the guy jumped out of his car and kept coming at him.
Although the video shows the individual never got more than a foot from his door until the officer began shooting. Here is a link to the full 51 minute video |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 8:33:33 PM EDT
[#33]
"He made a move.....I had to get it on."
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Posted: 10/4/2014 9:23:59 PM EDT
[#34]
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He fucked up. Would not surprise me to see him indicted. Fucked up.....and then lied. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 9:39:57 PM EDT
[#35]
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Sure, but I am assuming the injury wasn't that bad. I suppose I could be wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He just won the lottery. He probably won't even have to lawyer up, before he is offered a multi-million dollar settlement. I doubt it will be millions.Still he should get a decent amount of money. I would guess six figures. If he does end up needing a colostomy bag for life, a multi million dollar settlement is highly likely. Sure, but I am assuming the injury wasn't that bad. I suppose I could be wrong. He wasn't shot with a .380, or a 9mm, or even the .40 "short and wimpy." He was shot with a .45. .45 to hip? He will be a 35 year old man who will walk like a 70 year old man for the rest of his life. What's fair? A million dollars for being racially profiled and pain/suffering, an apology because he wasn't a hood rat, and whatever a state trooper would get in disability pension for a similar injury for the rest of his life. Also, he should be required, as part of the settlement, to come to every academy class for state troopers and give a 30 minute talk to the cadets about his case. Oh, and 50% of whatever the disgraced trooper earns in prison. And, oh, yes, FBHO. P.S. The troopers should also give him another half million if he promises to take the settlement right away and promise not answer any calls from Reverends Sharpton or Jackson, the Attorney General, etc. |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 10:04:42 PM EDT
[#36]
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I missed this. Horrific and I hope he gets an extremely stiff sentence Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did the entire 51 minute dash cam video ever get posted where the officer is on the phone with his supervisor stating the guy who got shot was charging him and would not stop so he had to shoot? http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/10/03/4516433/longer-video-shows-more-on-shooting.html Sounds like police had him cuffed to a bed in the hospital, police officer was then pulled off guarding him at around 8:30pm, but left without uncuffing him, then the officer returned after midnight after he realized he left the hospital without his handcuffs.
"The video evidence does not lie," Rutherford told ‘The Today Show.' "What does lie is Trooper Groubert's statement. That was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing, was listening to Trooper Groubert state that Mr. Jones was aggressive, that his stance towards Groubert was aggressive, that he approached the patrol car in an aggressive manner that was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing." I missed this. Horrific and I hope he gets an extremely stiff sentence +1 |
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Posted: 10/4/2014 11:40:47 PM EDT
[#37]
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Surely with all your experience you can type with one hand? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did I say anyone said it was normal ? I was answering the question of what would other LE do in the same situation. Don't you have some wealthy computers to consult? Lol most likely. You'd think with such a high paying job he'd be to busy for all his petty bashing. I guess when you reach his status you have all the time and experience you need to use google. It also seems that he watches a lot of TV. I broke my arm in a motorcycle accident earlier this month, so yeah, I've had a bit of free time while I've been recovering. Yup, just slowly. "I'm a righty"
Your thoughts on Trooper Pants-on-fire? IMO, we're talking about Detroit SWAT-like levels public corruption with a side of blame-the-victim. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 12:31:31 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He wasn't shot with a .380, or a 9mm, or even the .40 "short and wimpy." He was shot with a .45. .45 to hip? He will be a 35 year old man who will walk like a 70 year old man for the rest of his life. What's fair? A million dollars for being racially profiled and pain/suffering, an apology because he wasn't a hood rat, and whatever a state trooper would get in disability pension for a similar injury for the rest of his life. Also, he should be required, as part of the settlement, to come to every academy class for state troopers and give a 30 minute talk to the cadets about his case. Oh, and 50% of whatever the disgraced trooper earns in prison. And, oh, yes, FBHO. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He just won the lottery. He probably won't even have to lawyer up, before he is offered a multi-million dollar settlement. I doubt it will be millions.Still he should get a decent amount of money. I would guess six figures. If he does end up needing a colostomy bag for life, a multi million dollar settlement is highly likely. Sure, but I am assuming the injury wasn't that bad. I suppose I could be wrong. He wasn't shot with a .380, or a 9mm, or even the .40 "short and wimpy." He was shot with a .45. .45 to hip? He will be a 35 year old man who will walk like a 70 year old man for the rest of his life. What's fair? A million dollars for being racially profiled and pain/suffering, an apology because he wasn't a hood rat, and whatever a state trooper would get in disability pension for a similar injury for the rest of his life. Also, he should be required, as part of the settlement, to come to every academy class for state troopers and give a 30 minute talk to the cadets about his case. Oh, and 50% of whatever the disgraced trooper earns in prison. And, oh, yes, FBHO. |
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Posted: 10/5/2014 10:21:13 AM EDT
[#39]
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I didn't watch the 50 minute video. The transcript in the news story seems to match the short video. It's still a bad shoot but the guy did dive back into the vehicle. Obviously the trooper perceived it as "aggressive" or he wouldn't have fired. Unless there is more in the video, to call that a lie seems to be a stretch. 
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Posted: 10/6/2014 12:14:34 AM EDT
[#40]
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I didn't watch the 50 minute video. The transcript in the news story seems to match the short video. It's still a bad shoot but the guy did dive back into the vehicle. Obviously the trooper perceived it as "aggressive" or he wouldn't have fired. Unless there is more in the video, to call that a lie seems to be a stretch. Sigh... Whole thing is quite typical, and the people wonder why the cops.....sigh.. Pop po will get off with nothing, |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 2:03:18 AM EDT
[#41]
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You know how many people have ptsd including cops? You how many have "snaped" vs non ptsd? Your assessment is flawed but thanks painting with a broad brush. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No question it's a bad shoot. What's interesting is that he had been involved in a previous shooting that was clean (was actually taking rounds from the bad guy prior to the shoot). While I expect he'll be convicted, I'll be interested to see how possible PTSD works into this, and what charge he ends up with. THIS is why PTSD in cops is a serious (but generally ignored) issue... it can result in a very bad thing happening to an innocent man. BTW, for all the basement-dwelling, mouth-breathing cop haters out there, no favoritism was shown in the case, nor was anything covered up. Rule of law in action. Sounds like the department handled it correctly. But charges need to be filed. I'm no hater of police but that was beyond unacceptable. Only his lack of skill saved that mans life. And PTSD shouldn't even be admissible. Has nothing to do with this incident. I sincerely hope he goes to prison for many years. You know how many people have ptsd including cops? You how many have "snaped" vs non ptsd? Your assessment is flawed but thanks painting with a broad brush. You clearly can't be arguing innocence on the basis of mental incompetence. The officer knew what he did was wrong, to the point that he lied about it mere minutes after it occurred. |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 2:04:45 AM EDT
[#42]
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I didn't watch the 50 minute video. The transcript in the news story seems to match the short video. It's still a bad shoot but the guy did dive back into the vehicle. Obviously the trooper perceived it as "aggressive" or he wouldn't have fired. Unless there is more in the video, to call that a lie seems to be a stretch. Listen to the whole video. The officer says the victim "charged" him in an aggressive manner. Did you see a charge in there? |
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Posted: 10/6/2014 2:08:42 AM EDT
[#43]
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I missed this. Horrific and I hope he gets an extremely stiff sentence Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Did the entire 51 minute dash cam video ever get posted where the officer is on the phone with his supervisor stating the guy who got shot was charging him and would not stop so he had to shoot? http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/2014/10/03/4516433/longer-video-shows-more-on-shooting.html Sounds like police had him cuffed to a bed in the hospital, police officer was then pulled off guarding him at around 8:30pm, but left without uncuffing him, then the officer returned after midnight after he realized he left the hospital without his handcuffs.
"The video evidence does not lie," Rutherford told ‘The Today Show.' "What does lie is Trooper Groubert's statement. That was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing, was listening to Trooper Groubert state that Mr. Jones was aggressive, that his stance towards Groubert was aggressive, that he approached the patrol car in an aggressive manner that was the most disturbing part of the bond hearing." I missed this. Horrific and I hope he gets an extremely stiff sentence Imagine how it would have likely played out without video. Guy would be doing time most likely. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 11:06:35 AM EDT
[#44]
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Listen to the whole video. The officer says the victim "charged" him in an aggressive manner. Did you see a charge in there? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't watch the 50 minute video. The transcript in the news story seems to match the short video. It's still a bad shoot but the guy did dive back into the vehicle. Obviously the trooper perceived it as "aggressive" or he wouldn't have fired. Unless there is more in the video, to call that a lie seems to be a stretch. Listen to the whole video. The officer says the victim "charged" him in an aggressive manner. Did you see a charge in there? Yes, right after he dove into the vehicle, but before he dropped his pipe. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 11:15:53 AM EDT
[#45]
Interesting.
I showed the video to my dad (retired FBI) and he was adamant the guy would never be convicted because the guy dove into the car too fast. I didn't want to take much of a stand because I don't really think he'll be convicted either. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 11:35:52 AM EDT
[#46]
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All bullshit crap aside. What do you automatically think when someone who you suspect of a crime gives you a statement that contradicts with when the evidence later shows to be the truth? Do you just chalk that up to perception or do include in your report that the perp lied about what happened? Do you believe that the police have a code of silence when investigating crimes of other officers or is that just something that cop haters make up?
Serious question BTW. Edited because I don't want to hurt anyone's feels. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I didn't watch the 50 minute video. The transcript in the news story seems to match the short video. It's still a bad shoot but the guy did dive back into the vehicle. Obviously the trooper perceived it as "aggressive" or he wouldn't have fired. Unless there is more in the video, to call that a lie seems to be a stretch. Plus the trooper is only talkng about his perception. As an investigator I am used to police witnesses not being 100% in sync with other witnesses or video due to stress. It doesn't mean they are lying...stress does funny things to a persons perception. I recently had it happen to me during a shooting. There were parts of the incident I wasn't sure of because of stress and tunnel vision. Didn't mean I was lying about what I remembered with stuff I did or didn't remember. Just like the stuff I saw and perceived that other guys missed due to their stress and tunnel vision. The mind is a funny thing when it is stressed. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile All bullshit crap aside. What do you automatically think when someone who you suspect of a crime gives you a statement that contradicts with when the evidence later shows to be the truth? Do you just chalk that up to perception or do include in your report that the perp lied about what happened? Do you believe that the police have a code of silence when investigating crimes of other officers or is that just something that cop haters make up?
Serious question BTW. Edited because I don't want to hurt anyone's feels. no. other cops are more then happy to get rid of someone who is a fuck up. |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 12:35:41 PM EDT
[#47]
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no. other cops are more then happy to get rid of someone who is a fuck up. lol Really? Are you sure? No cops would cover for other cops who break the law? That isn't institutional in places? There aren't other places where arresting an officer from another jurisdiction puts the arresting officer in fear for his job? |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 12:45:08 PM EDT
[#48]
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lol Really? Are you sure? No cops would cover for other cops who break the law? That isn't institutional in places? There aren't other places where arresting an officer from another jurisdiction puts the arresting officer in fear for his job? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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no. other cops are more then happy to get rid of someone who is a fuck up. lol Really? Are you sure? No cops would cover for other cops who break the law? That isn't institutional in places? There aren't other places where arresting an officer from another jurisdiction puts the arresting officer in fear for his job? 
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/01/10/kanabec-county-chief-deputy-sentenced-for-dui/ |
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Posted: 10/7/2014 12:46:47 PM EDT
[#49]
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no. other cops are more then happy to get rid of someone who is a fuck up. lol Really? Are you sure? No cops would cover for other cops who break the law? That isn't institutional in places? There aren't other places where arresting an officer from another jurisdiction puts the arresting officer in fear for his job?
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/01/10/kanabec-county-chief-deputy-sentenced-for-dui/ LOL huh? We will do the second part first since you mentioned DUI 
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Posted: 10/7/2014 1:06:18 PM EDT
[#50]
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lol Really? Are you sure? No cops would cover for other cops who break the law? That isn't institutional in places? There aren't other places where arresting an officer from another jurisdiction puts the arresting officer in fear for his job? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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no. other cops are more then happy to get rid of someone who is a fuck up. lol Really? Are you sure? No cops would cover for other cops who break the law? That isn't institutional in places? There aren't other places where arresting an officer from another jurisdiction puts the arresting officer in fear for his job? Everyone thought the same thing when they read that, too. "Yeah right". But it's just not worth arguing on here. |
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