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Posted: 12/3/2013 6:49:30 AM EDT
[#1]
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News story I heard on the radio this morning said that police have indicated (not sure if it was an official or unofficial "statement") that they believe the speed was around 100 mph. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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TMZ reports he was doing 45 in a 15 and you guys just accept that? Bullshit. He hit a 45 mph sign while in the "15 mph zone". No way that car was going 45. I'm still going with the 100+ mph the damage shows instead tmz's "inside information." Well show prove of it then. All anybody here can do is go by what the news is reporting so far. Lots of know it all's here that don't have a fucking clue other than what we are reading on the news. No way there was that much damage from a 45 mph crash. The car was completely smashed. News story I heard on the radio this morning said that police have indicated (not sure if it was an official or unofficial "statement") that they believe the speed was around 100 mph. That seems much more plausible given the pictures of the aftermath. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 8:37:22 AM EDT
[#2]
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and speeding Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mechanical failure. For the arfcom assholes: http://www.lambopower.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-22919-1382555632.jpg Nope. As previously posted, 45 in a 45mph zone. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 8:43:29 AM EDT
[#3]
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Mechanical failure. For the arfcom assholes: http://www.lambopower.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-22919-1382555632.jpg Nope. As previously posted, 45 in a 45mph zone. OMFG!!! I read it on the internet!! Cold hard facts there!! 
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Posted: 12/3/2013 8:48:04 AM EDT
[#4]
TMZ.
Exclusive  The sports car Paul Walker died in was so gnarly to drive ... Porsche WARNED its dealers, in writing, about letting just anyone drive the vehicle ... because it's hyper sensitive to road conditions. TMZ obtained a copy of a memo sent from Porsche HQ to multiple dealers in the Midwest back in 2004 ... right before the $500K Carrera GT went on sale -- and it explains how ridiculously powerful the car is, but also that ... "this vehicle cannot drive over a Foster Beer can that is lying on its side." In the doc, a Porsche exec says, "You need to be aware of what type of road surface you are on (dips; pot holes, seam heights, etc.)"  It's worth noting ... the road where Paul and Roger Rodas crashed is covered with reflective dots -- y'know, the ones you've probably driven over harmlessly thousands of times. Of course, you probably weren't driving the GT ... which some pro drivers have called "brutal and savage" and difficult to control. DOC. http://tmz.vo.llnwd.net/o28/newsdesk/tmz_documents/1202_carrera_gt_2.pdf So maybe when they were hauling ass they drive over those "road titties" as we call them causing the car to lose traction in that turn which eventually led to losing control of the car? |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 8:51:16 AM EDT
[#5]
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Mechanical failure. For the arfcom assholes: http://www.lambopower.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-22919-1382555632.jpg Nope. As previously posted, 45 in a 45mph zone. Bonjour! 
L.A. Sheriff's office has said that "speed was a factor" It seems highly unlikely at this point that the car was going 45. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 9:28:12 AM EDT
[#6]
Have they pulled the final recording data from the black box yet? It will tell how fast the car was going, its braking force, angles, etc.
I think it hit the curb sideways, got a bit airborn and hit the pole in the passenger door. This car has a carbon fiber tub, no steel in the center section, not to mention a removable carbon fiber roof. The absolutely worst possible place. If it hit a bit rear of the pass. compartment I bet the results would have been different. Also the fuel tank on the car is aluminum, not the more impact resistant poly tanks we see now. That tank probably got ruptured when it hit he curb sideways and the magnesium wheels dragging on the concrete sparked igniting the fuel.   |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 10:29:18 AM EDT
[#7]
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Bonjour!
L.A. Sheriff's office has said that "speed was a factor" It seems highly unlikely at this point that the car was going 45. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mechanical failure. For the arfcom assholes: http://www.lambopower.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-22919-1382555632.jpg Nope. As previously posted, 45 in a 45mph zone. Bonjour!
L.A. Sheriff's office has said that "speed was a factor" It seems highly unlikely at this point that the car was going 45. From the first sentence in the article: "was traveling at approximately 40 to 45 mph when it came to a bend in the road where the speed limit drops to about 15 mph, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation told NBC News on Monday." Why do you hate cops so much?
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Posted: 12/3/2013 11:48:25 AM EDT
[#8]
If it struck the pole at 45mph- look at the skid marks leading to the impact. I drive a car similar in power and slightly more weight and if I locked my brakes at 45mph I would have been stopped within a VERY short distance.
I still think the assertion and quotes about it being 45MPH will be proven wrong when an official statement by a non-anonymous person is made. As for the leaking steering- why would you drive a car for 20 minutes when you know it's leaking? Especially when the steering system of that car costs more than the average family car if you burn out the pump or fuck up the rack? I don't buy that scenario either. I think people are looking for a way to make it anything other than the driver's fault... same shit when planes go down too. Nobody ever wants to say it was the pilot's fault. Funny that the workers at the shop are blaming the car THEY maintain. Two decent dudes were killed and that sucks. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 11:51:20 AM EDT
[#9]
I'm going to take a drive over there. As long as the place isn't still shut down by the Police I should be able to get a good feel for where things went wrong.
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Posted: 12/3/2013 11:54:21 AM EDT
[#10]
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From the first sentence in the article: Why do you hate cops so much? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Bonjour!
L.A. Sheriff's office has said that "speed was a factor" It seems highly unlikely at this point that the car was going 45. From the first sentence in the article: "was traveling at approximately 40 to 45 mph when it came to a bend in the road where the speed limit drops to about 15 mph, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation told NBC News on Monday." Why do you hate cops so much? Dang cops!
To be serious for a second, note the word "familiar" in the quote you provided. That's NOT a law enforcement official who is actually INVOLVED with the investigation (because if it was, they would have said so), just someone who is "familiar" - meaning it can be pretty much anyone in law enforcement who heard something about it. It's probably just their in-house law enforcement expert/commentator, who was just repeating a rumor. If it was anyone directly involved who had inside information, they would have bragged about their "scoop" or "leak" That's VERY different from a statement from the Sheriff's office who is actually conducting the investigation. I think I will take their word for it, over what is essentially just an unsubstantiated rumor. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 11:57:21 AM EDT
[#11]
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Mechanical failure. For the arfcom assholes: http://www.lambopower.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-22919-1382555632.jpg Nope. As previously posted, 45 in a 45mph zone. 45 around a 15 mph rated curve? That's an easy bend for something like the Carrera GT, sounds like the power steering going out and then oiling down the outside front tire so it couldn't make the bend is a plausible excuse. 
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Posted: 12/3/2013 11:58:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:As for the leaking steering- why would you drive a car for 20 minutes when you know it's leaking? Especially when the steering system of that car costs more than the average family car if you burn out the pump or fuck up the rack? I don't buy that scenario either. If you have any experience with power steering system failure, you should know that it can be VERY unpredictable. One second it can work great, the next second not. And the next second it can even come back to working great again. I heard Paul Walker's 15 year old daughter was at the scene as was the 8 year old son of the driver. As bad as it must have been for them to see that, I hope neither of those 2 kids sees what is in this thread. HighSpeedSteel |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 12:28:28 PM EDT
[#13]
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If you have any experience with power steering system failure, you should know that it can be VERY unpredictable. One second it can work great, the next second not. And the next second it can even come back to working great again. I heard Paul Walker's 15 year old daughter was at the scene as was the 8 year old son of the driver. As bad as it must have been for them to see that, I hope neither of those 2 kids sees what is in this thread. HighSpeedSteel Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:As for the leaking steering- why would you drive a car for 20 minutes when you know it's leaking? Especially when the steering system of that car costs more than the average family car if you burn out the pump or fuck up the rack? I don't buy that scenario either. If you have any experience with power steering system failure, you should know that it can be VERY unpredictable. One second it can work great, the next second not. And the next second it can even come back to working great again. I heard Paul Walker's 15 year old daughter was at the scene as was the 8 year old son of the driver. As bad as it must have been for them to see that, I hope neither of those 2 kids sees what is in this thread. HighSpeedSteel I have had power steering issues before- but the story about this car leaking fluid started right away and it was alleged that "they" knew it was leaking before driving it. If anyone knows anything about hydraulic steering- they know that air in the system with completely fuck it up, smoke the pump and possibly the valves in the rack. They would also know that it could mean losing power assist at any time or potentially a catastrophic fluid dump at some point. I'm not buying it... I can't imagine taking the kids to the scene of a horrific crash like that- the shop was a good distance away. If I wrap my car up and take myself out, please- nobody bring my kids to the scene. Cliff's Notes Version: Don't believe the 45mph claim Don't believe the power steering leak kilt'em |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 12:52:02 PM EDT
[#14]
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Dang cops!
To be serious for a second, note the word "familiar" in the quote you provided. That's NOT a law enforcement official who is actually INVOLVED with the investigation (because if it was, they would have said so), just someone who is "familiar" - meaning it can be pretty much anyone in law enforcement who heard something about it. It's probably just their in-house law enforcement expert/commentator, who was just repeating a rumor. If it was anyone directly involved who had inside information, they would have bragged about their "scoop" or "leak" That's VERY different from a statement from the Sheriff's office who is actually conducting the investigation. I think I will take their word for it, over what is essentially just an unsubstantiated rumor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Bonjour!
L.A. Sheriff's office has said that "speed was a factor" It seems highly unlikely at this point that the car was going 45. From the first sentence in the article: "was traveling at approximately 40 to 45 mph when it came to a bend in the road where the speed limit drops to about 15 mph, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation told NBC News on Monday." Why do you hate cops so much? Dang cops!
To be serious for a second, note the word "familiar" in the quote you provided. That's NOT a law enforcement official who is actually INVOLVED with the investigation (because if it was, they would have said so), just someone who is "familiar" - meaning it can be pretty much anyone in law enforcement who heard something about it. It's probably just their in-house law enforcement expert/commentator, who was just repeating a rumor. If it was anyone directly involved who had inside information, they would have bragged about their "scoop" or "leak" That's VERY different from a statement from the Sheriff's office who is actually conducting the investigation. I think I will take their word for it, over what is essentially just an unsubstantiated rumor. As I said previously, the police "crash experts" on the scene told TV interviewers that based on skid marks they estimated speed at approx 90mph. Wouldn't be the first time someone shot off their mouth on TV, but that sounds a hell of a lot more plausible than 45. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 1:01:51 PM EDT
[#15]
OK, it took me all of five minutes to get there. This is an area I go to regularly as my wife has doctors appointments there on a monthly basis so I know the road in question.
I also work in the racing industry and have years and years of experience with cars, their handling characteristics and as many spins and crashes as you could imagine. I say this because no doubt some other "expert", (which I am not), will come along and say I am not qualified to give an opinion. Blow me. Please excuse the blurry photos, I was taking them on my cell phone while trying to not be the next accident on that road... Lets start with the picture posted by another local, dtux, use this as a reference. 
Approaching the section in the above picture where the red line begins, before you get to the church. The road work signs are there because of the chaos ahead, speed limit, 45MPH. 
The bend is left hand, slightly uphill and flowing, there is a very short straight section before it leads into the right hander. 
Right lane closed as you enter the right hand curve, once again, it is open and flowing. 
Middle of the right hand curve. 
The scene. You can relate the yellow warning sign with other pictures in this thread. Police everywhere because the freaking place is a zoo. onlookers gathering, cars parked, people walking back to gawk. 
Crash site. Self explanatory. 
Have at it ARFCOM... |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 1:02:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Figured was going to happen.....couple somewhat graphic photos have surfaced online.
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Posted: 12/3/2013 1:17:43 PM EDT
[#17]
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If it struck the pole at 45mph- look at the skid marks leading to the impact. I drive a car similar in power and slightly more weight and if I locked my brakes at 45mph I would have been stopped within a VERY short distance. I still think the assertion and quotes about it being 45MPH will be proven wrong when an official statement by a non-anonymous person is made. As for the leaking steering- why would you drive a car for 20 minutes when you know it's leaking? Especially when the steering system of that car costs more than the average family car if you burn out the pump or fuck up the rack? I don't buy that scenario either. I think people are looking for a way to make it anything other than the driver's fault... same shit when planes go down too. Nobody ever wants to say it was the pilot's fault. Funny that the workers at the shop are blaming the car THEY maintain. Two decent dudes were killed and that sucks. You're assuming that the power steering leak was slow, not a burst line causing instant loss of power steering. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 1:19:42 PM EDT
[#18]
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Dang cops!
To be serious for a second, note the word "familiar" in the quote you provided. That's NOT a law enforcement official who is actually INVOLVED with the investigation (because if it was, they would have said so), just someone who is "familiar" - meaning it can be pretty much anyone in law enforcement who heard something about it. It's probably just their in-house law enforcement expert/commentator, who was just repeating a rumor. If it was anyone directly involved who had inside information, they would have bragged about their "scoop" or "leak" That's VERY different from a statement from the Sheriff's office who is actually conducting the investigation. I think I will take their word for it, over what is essentially just an unsubstantiated rumor. I'm familiar with this game. "familiar" in this context is almost always a lead investigator, or brass, speaking off the record. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 1:20:54 PM EDT
[#19]
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45 around a 15 mph rated curve? That's an easy bend for something like the Carrera GT, sounds like the power steering going out and then oiling down the outside front tire so it couldn't make the bend is a plausible excuse.
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Mechanical failure. For the arfcom assholes: http://www.lambopower.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-22919-1382555632.jpg Nope. As previously posted, 45 in a 45mph zone. 45 around a 15 mph rated curve? That's an easy bend for something like the Carrera GT, sounds like the power steering going out and then oiling down the outside front tire so it couldn't make the bend is a plausible excuse.
And entirely irrelevant since the crash didn't happen in the curve. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 1:33:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Mechanical failure. For the arfcom assholes: http://www.lambopower.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-22919-1382555632.jpg Nope. As previously posted, 45 in a 45mph zone. So you think it was just a couple of dudes driving around that particular area, in a Porsche, obeying the speed limit, and the car suffered a mechanical failure, crashed and burned? Do you actually think they were not speeding? Do you actually think speed was not a factor in their deaths? |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 2:37:53 PM EDT
[#21]
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oh please So you think it was just a couple of dudes driving around that particular area, in a Porsche, obeying the speed limit, and the car suffered a mechanical failure, crashed and burned? Do you actually think they were not speeding? Do you actually think speed was not a factor in their deaths? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Mechanical failure. For the arfcom assholes: http://www.lambopower.com/forum/uploads/monthly_10_2013/post-22919-1382555632.jpg Nope. As previously posted, 45 in a 45mph zone. So you think it was just a couple of dudes driving around that particular area, in a Porsche, obeying the speed limit, and the car suffered a mechanical failure, crashed and burned? Do you actually think they were not speeding? Do you actually think speed was not a factor in their deaths? 
People have accidents all the time! Sorry, couldn't help myself
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Posted: 12/3/2013 2:44:18 PM EDT
[#22]
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OK, it took me all of five minutes to get there. This is an area I go to regularly as my wife has doctors appointments there on a monthly basis so I know the road in question. I also work in the racing industry and have years and years of experience with cars, their handling characteristics and as many spins and crashes as you could imagine. I say this because no doubt some other "expert", (which I am not), will come along and say I am not qualified to give an opinion. Blow me. Please excuse the blurry photos, I was taking them on my cell phone while trying to not be the next accident on that road... Lets start with the picture posted by another local, dtux, use this as a reference. http://i44.tinypic.com/28aibki.jpg[/url] Approaching the section in the above picture where the red line begins, before you get to the church. The road work signs are there because of the chaos ahead, speed limit, 45MPH. http://imageshack.us/a/img833/3671/nl2e.jpg The bend is left hand, slightly uphill and flowing, there is a very short straight section before it leads into the right hander. http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2203/wmrh.jpg Right lane closed as you enter the right hand curve, once again, it is open and flowing. http://imageshack.us/a/img716/4885/40by.jpg Middle of the right hand curve. http://imageshack.us/a/img841/8164/5gnh.jpg The scene. You can relate the yellow warning sign with other pictures in this thread. Police everywhere because the freaking place is a zoo. onlookers gathering, cars parked, people walking back to gawk. http://imageshack.us/a/img833/6471/5lyi.jpg Crash site. Self explanatory. http://imageshack.us/a/img22/1619/60i1.jpg Have at it ARFCOM... First off, awesome recon man. Okay, my guess is that they're taking the right hander at a good clip, the rear end steps out (to the left), driver tries to correct, over corrects and whipsaws back to the right and flings them into the pole/tree. Not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. ETA: Or it could have been like a plane and pilot induced oscillation, instead the driver loses the back end, catches it, but corrects, loses it again, corrects, loses it again, with the steering input getting greater and greater until the car spins off into the tree/pole. I'm also curious on how many miles the car had on it, if the tires hand ever been replaced, or if they were the originals. If it had seriously low miles (which a lot of CGTs do), it might have had the old hard tires on it. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 2:46:22 PM EDT
[#23]
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Figured was going to happen.....couple somewhat graphic photos have surfaced online. Link? |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 2:57:48 PM EDT
[#24]
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Link? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Figured was going to happen.....couple somewhat graphic photos have surfaced online. Link? Liveleak |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 3:20:59 PM EDT
[#25]
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Liveleak Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Figured was going to happen.....couple somewhat graphic photos have surfaced online. Link? Liveleak No |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 3:21:56 PM EDT
[#26]
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Figured was going to happen.....couple somewhat graphic photos have surfaced online. Link? Liveleak No Nasty... |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 3:22:51 PM EDT
[#27]
crispy critter
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Posted: 12/3/2013 3:29:01 PM EDT
[#28]
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Figured was going to happen.....couple somewhat graphic photos have surfaced online. Link? Liveleak No Not really that bad, but it does show the seats were basically ripped out from underneath them in the wreck. That car is a fucking mess. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 3:39:12 PM EDT
[#29]
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crispy critter I've seen worse, LAFD probably got on scene damned fast. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 3:49:43 PM EDT
[#30]
wow, those liveleak pics
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Posted: 12/3/2013 4:42:42 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 12/3/2013 4:49:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Dude, put a damn spoiler box on those. I don't care but you're gonna get loved tenderly for just posting that shit. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 4:52:17 PM EDT
[#33]
Spoiler tag dude. Damn.
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Posted: 12/3/2013 4:53:17 PM EDT
[#34]
<personal attacks removed>
Have some fucking common sense. Notice, how nobody else posted the link or photos? |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 4:54:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey dipshit....lose the fucking pics!!! What are you an idiot? Have some fucking common sense. Notice, how nobody else posted the link or photos? |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 4:56:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ... And I agree, lose the pics. We all know how to google |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 4:57:26 PM EDT
[#37]
What are the rules here governing how graphic the pics you post can be?
I know nudity/feces are banned but I've seen links to videos of Syrians getting headshot and stuff. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 4:58:24 PM EDT
[#38]
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What are the rules here governing how graphic the pics you post can be? I know nudity/feces are banned but I've seen links to videos of Syrians getting headshot and stuff. That's all fine. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:02:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are the rules here governing how graphic the pics you post can be? I know nudity/feces are banned but I've seen links to videos of Syrians getting headshot and stuff. I'm not sure but I assumed that the unwritten rule was to give people the option of whether they want to see it or not, using the spoiler feature or a link rather than embedding |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:03:10 PM EDT
[#40]
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What are the rules here governing how graphic the pics you post can be? I know nudity/feces are banned but I've seen links to videos of Syrians getting headshot and stuff. Put a warning in the thread title (which I did) so that people do not see them accidentally |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:06:10 PM EDT
[#41]
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That's all fine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What are the rules here governing how graphic the pics you post can be? I know nudity/feces are banned but I've seen links to videos of Syrians getting headshot and stuff. That's all fine. What about posting a pic of a dead chick in a bikini ? |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:09:18 PM EDT
[#42]
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What about posting a pic of a dead chick in a bikini ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What are the rules here governing how graphic the pics you post can be? I know nudity/feces are banned but I've seen links to videos of Syrians getting headshot and stuff. That's all fine. What about posting a pic of a dead chick in a bikini ? Only if she is burner or smeared enough to not show cleavage. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:09:29 PM EDT
[#43]
I've put a car into a pole at 45 mph and smashed another into a concrete barrier, and they looked nothing like that. That article is fucking retarded. People believe that shit?
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:11:11 PM EDT
[#44]
If the pictures were of the person with the split down the middle face,that wasn't him.
The family had to submit dental records because the bodies were burned so badly. Fake pictures going around facebook. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:12:25 PM EDT
[#45]
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Put a warning in the thread title (which I did) so that people do not see them accidentally Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What are the rules here governing how graphic the pics you post can be? I know nudity/feces are banned but I've seen links to videos of Syrians getting headshot and stuff. Put a warning in the thread title (which I did) so that people do not see them accidentally Ok now it makes sense, I thought his pictures were staff removed but now I see he removed them. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:15:53 PM EDT
[#46]
where did the graphic pics go?
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:16:06 PM EDT
[#47]
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Put a warning in the thread title (which I did) so that people do not see them accidentally Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What are the rules here governing how graphic the pics you post can be? I know nudity/feces are banned but I've seen links to videos of Syrians getting headshot and stuff. Put a warning in the thread title (which I did) so that people do not see them accidentally In for the graphic pics and they are gone. 
As a self anointed expert in matters of speed, they were hauling balls. It isn't the speed that kills though kids, it is the sudden stops. Ban assault stops, for the children. |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:16:21 PM EDT
[#48]
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where did the graphic pics go? They are on LiveLeak and reddit |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:19:52 PM EDT
[#49]
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They are on LiveLeak and reddit Quote HistoryQuoted:
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where did the graphic pics go? They are on LiveLeak and reddit I know but the thread title says they are on page 26. using arfcom logic this means that none of this ever happened and Mr. Walker is still alive. Am I a Walker troopher? |
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Posted: 12/3/2013 5:20:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In for the graphic pics and they are gone. As a self anointed expert in matters of speed, they were hauling balls. It isn't the speed that kills though kids, it is the sudden stops. Ban assault stops, for the children. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What are the rules here governing how graphic the pics you post can be? I know nudity/feces are banned but I've seen links to videos of Syrians getting headshot and stuff. Put a warning in the thread title (which I did) so that people do not see them accidentally In for the graphic pics and they are gone. As a self anointed expert in matters of speed, they were hauling balls. It isn't the speed that kills though kids, it is the sudden stops. Ban assault stops, for the children. In my post above. |
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