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Posted: 10/6/2015 8:11:04 PM EDT
[#1]
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Really? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Who are they? Cite please. Um, "they?" Do you mean the other peoples/religions of the world who also have rules about morality? Are you kidding? Dude, time to get the fuck out of the bubble. This is shit I learned in high school if not earlier... Really? Yes, really. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 8:18:47 PM EDT
[#2]
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Hooray for cherrypicking! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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... God/Christ gives us teachings that show us how to behave. When was the last time you stoned someone who worked on the Sabbath? Ever hear of the New Testament? Christians do not live by the Old Testament, Jew's and some others do. Christians do not. Which opens a whole other off topic can of worms, which if you want to discuss should be done so in another thread. Hooray for cherrypicking! Made me laugh... So true.... Wow, these rules suck and make us look bad.... We're gonna have to rewrite this shit |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 8:20:25 PM EDT
[#3]
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When the Oklahoma constitution was written it meant the support of one denomination such as Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc. it had nothing to do with Christianity vs Judaism vs Buddhist, etc. In 1907 it was more to keep the Baptists from running state government. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yay, another Christian persecution circle jerk when someone makes them obey the law. What Law? When the Oklahoma constitution was written it meant the support of one denomination such as Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc. it had nothing to do with Christianity vs Judaism vs Buddhist, etc. In 1907 it was more to keep the Baptists from running state government. Nice... So Ok has a strong history of religious discrimination |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 8:26:07 PM EDT
[#4]
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Nice... So Ok has a strong history of religious discrimination Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yay, another Christian persecution circle jerk when someone makes them obey the law. What Law? When the Oklahoma constitution was written it meant the support of one denomination such as Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc. it had nothing to do with Christianity vs Judaism vs Buddhist, etc. In 1907 it was more to keep the Baptists from running state government. Nice... So Ok has a strong history of religious discrimination WTF are you talking about? It was written so no one religious sect could run state government! You think that is religious discrimination? 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 8:28:33 PM EDT
[#5]
A very similar stonework was removed from the grounds of the Custer County Courthouse in Montana.
....about 10 years ago........ |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 8:33:27 PM EDT
[#6]
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A very similar stonework was removed from the grounds of the Custer County Courthouse in Montana. ....about 10 years ago........ We've been spiralling out of control as a nation ever since... 
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Posted: 10/6/2015 8:49:26 PM EDT
[#7]
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We've been spiralling out of control as a nation ever since... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A very similar stonework was removed from the grounds of the Custer County Courthouse in Montana. ....about 10 years ago........ We've been spiralling out of control as a nation ever since... I really don't believe that something written in stone is as important as what it is that is written on a man's heart. If Oklahoma state law is quite clear concerning the prohibition about the open display of religious articles and thus its symbolism on state property, then in my view the state should abide by its own law and show no favoritism as it pertains to any religion. I think in this regard about what they have done is right. That is, if this is how the law clearly reads and is constitutional. |
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Posted: 10/6/2015 8:59:13 PM EDT
[#8]
I really don't believe that there are very many born-again believers that would argue that this removal of the Ten Commandments will hinder anyone concerning salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ.
The Bible states that the law of God must be written upon a man's heart by at least the foreknowledge if not the predestined effect of election from before the foundation of the world, and from the eternal places in Christ. None of us can escape who we really are. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 12:12:40 AM EDT
[#9]
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That's the thing though. By constructing a Christian monument on public grounds, Christians are the ones inviting Muslims to erect their own statue. Due to equal protection, government either has to welcome all-comers (well, at least recognized religions/beliefs) to build monuments on public property. The other way to go about it is to deny everyone the ability to erect monuments of religious connotation on public property. But it IS illegal to only allow Christian monuments but bar everyone else. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Everyone would be all piss and vinegar (and rightly so) if someone wanted to put in a Muslim statue. That's the thing though. By constructing a Christian monument on public grounds, Christians are the ones inviting Muslims to erect their own statue. Due to equal protection, government either has to welcome all-comers (well, at least recognized religions/beliefs) to build monuments on public property. The other way to go about it is to deny everyone the ability to erect monuments of religious connotation on public property. But it IS illegal to only allow Christian monuments but bar everyone else. This issue has absolutely nothing to do with equal protection of the laws. Even explicit favouring of one religion over others when it comes to public imagery does not deny any group equal protection of the laws. Equal protection of the laws does not mean treating people and groups equally in every manner possible. The legal term of art is much more limited in meaning (and that limited meaning is how the framers of the 14th Amendment understood it). Nothing wrong with a Western country favouring Christian iconography in its public buildings and monuments. Where society still places some value in religion, tradition, morality, etc. it should be expected, really. Christianity forms a major part of the bedrock underlying Western civilization. Something as foundational for a civilization as the 10 Commandments is quite appropriate. It also did not violate the U.S. Constitution nor any plain reading of the OK Constitution. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 12:19:30 AM EDT
[#10]
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So a pivotal part of our culture is to have big daddy government make your religion feel special, or freak out if he is making someone else's religion feel special? If I were king, I'd leave up all statues of confederate generals and 10 commandments, with the understanding that no more would be built. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pretty much sums up the state of the union right there People are obsessed with trivialities, like the 10 commandments, or trying to remove them (which I've said for years is a waste of time and money). Meanwhile we have terrorists abroad trying to start WW3, Russia being belligerent, and admitted socialist as a democratic candidate (rather than a socialist who pretends they aren't a socialist), democrats who want to increase entitlements, import poor people from south America (to bolster their socialist voting rolls), quash free speech to stop "racism" and "triggers". The culture war is far from a triviality. Some of the battles may be small, but when it comes to the bigger picture in this regard, much is at stake, and if you lose enough smaller battles that does have an impact. If I were king, I'd leave up all statues of confederate generals and 10 commandments, with the understanding that no more would be built. No, Christianity ad what emanates from it and the mode of thinking of the Judaic civilization from whence it sprang are pivotal parts of our culture. They inform even non-believers who have been brought up within our civilization. Morality under those transcendent principles underlies Western liberty. "Free individualism uninformed by moral value rots at its core and soon brings about conditions that pave the way for surrender to tyranny." And for conservatives, Christianity is the principal basis of what constitutes 'moral value.' The state, for better or worse, has a role to play in all of this. It can do cultural harm by its actions or failures as much as any other element in a civilization. Purging anything having to do with 'moral value' at minimum sends the wrong message and helps to negatively shape society, and for the Left, it is but a stepping stone for pushing further and further well beyond something that on its face can seem so trivial. It's nowhere near as simple an issue as some people seem to understand it. One could probably write a series of books on the subject. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 12:41:51 AM EDT
[#11]
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R The basis of English common law is the Ten Commandments. English common law is the basis for modern law in this country. They also represent the belief of the majority of Okies. But that doesn't seem to matter... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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..... The best part of wisdom is in tolerating each other's delusions. Or in some peoples view, tolerating the secularist all together. What is one man's delusion, however, is another man's reality. What is truth? I believe even Pontius Pilate (John 18:38) washed his hands off that one, and I am afraid I can do no better 
The curious thing about truth is that every man is convinced in his heart of hearts that his beliefs represent the ultimate truth, while everyone else is an anarcho-paganist who must be taught the truth by laws, mores and constant repetition of religious precepts. So where does the human conscience and its general precepts of righteousness originate? From the evolutionary wilderness up until now? The basis of English common law is the Ten Commandments. English common law is the basis for modern law in this country. They also represent the belief of the majority of Okies. But that doesn't seem to matter... Yep, Christianity as the basis for at least some of our laws goes back a long time. It was something transplanted here from England via the common law. An example from a court ruling: "As to those laws, which those of the holy church have in ancient scripture, it behooves us to give them credence, for this is the common law, upon which all manner of laws are founded..." Or the oft-quoted Taylor's Case, where Chief Justice Matthew Hale stated that "Christianity is parcel of the laws of England." This was affirmed here by men such as Chief Justice Story, who said, "One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the common law, from which it seeks the sanction of its rights, and by which it endeavors to regulate its doctrines...There never was a period, in which the common law did not recognize Christianity as lying at its foundation." Less explicitly, you can see the influence the Christianity had on the course of Western political theory leading to the ideas that formed much of the basis for the cause of liberty. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 12:44:54 AM EDT
[#12]
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The Oklahoma constitution which prohibits the use of public property for the support of religion. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yay, another Christian persecution circle jerk when someone makes them obey the law. What Law? When you read that part of the Constitution, one has to get creative to see it as prohibiting this monument. Of course, judges are good at that, having fully embraced the mantle of being legislators and constitutional amenders. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 12:50:58 AM EDT
[#13]
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When the Oklahoma constitution was written it meant the support of one denomination such as Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc. it had nothing to do with Christianity vs Judaism vs Buddhist, etc. In 1907 it was more to keep the Baptists from running state government. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yay, another Christian persecution circle jerk when someone makes them obey the law. What Law? When the Oklahoma constitution was written it meant the support of one denomination such as Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, etc. it had nothing to do with Christianity vs Judaism vs Buddhist, etc. In 1907 it was more to keep the Baptists from running state government. Back then it was still not seen as unconstitutional for a State to have a state or official religion (speaking of a specific denomination; it had been less than two decades since the last such laws had been eliminated by States), so it makes sense to take that approach if that was what one wanted to prevent, but it is not the same as purging all evidence of religion or religious tradition from the public sphere, and the wording and the attitudes of the time would seem to support this rather than the more radical assertion organizations like the ACLU seem intent on making. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 1:02:26 AM EDT
[#14]
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So? I see no, "objective truth," in Darwinism. Gap science holds very few answers that I seek. Likewise, the Spirit of God holds no revelation and knowledge for you, or so you say. I have no problem with your views. But, can you honestly say the same about mine? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Trying to remove crosses and commandments statues is mean-spirited and short-sighted, particularly at time when America has never been more secularist. The best part of wisdom is in tolerating each other's delusions. Or in some people's view, tolerating the secularist all together. What is one man's delusion, however, is another man's reality. What is truth? Reality is reality. Truth = Objective reality. We're all subjective observers of objective reality, which can already hurt the pursuit of objective truth, there's no need to believe things without good evidence. So? I see no, "objective truth," in Darwinism. Gap science holds very few answers that I seek. Likewise, the Spirit of God holds no revelation and knowledge for you, or so you say. I have no problem with your views. But, can you honestly say the same about mine? Just because you don't see truth in "Darwinism" doesn't mean it's not true. I don't understand what you mean by "gap science". Unreliable pathways to truth should be discouraged. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 1:04:43 AM EDT
[#15]
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Something as foundational for a civilization as the 10 Commandments is quite appropriate Thou shalt have no other gods before me Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy Honour thy father and thy mother Thou shalt not kill Thou shalt not commit adultery Thou shalt not steal Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour Thou shalt not covet (various) |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 1:05:30 AM EDT
[#16]
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Bosniacs, the accepted term for a person from Bosnia, are generally muslim. Game changer. The sooner we can free ourselves from the ignorance and hatred of dark religion we can move forward to a glorious progressive future led by the warm, embracing light of science and humanism! Forward, comrades! You have nothing to lose but your false moralities! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Good.  Bosniacs, the accepted term for a person from Bosnia, are generally muslim. Game changer. The sooner we can free ourselves from the ignorance and hatred of dark religion we can move forward to a glorious progressive future led by the warm, embracing light of science and humanism! Forward, comrades! You have nothing to lose but your false moralities! Didn't Stalin do that in Russia? Yup, sure did. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 1:09:46 AM EDT
[#17]
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Thou shalt have no other gods before me Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy Honour thy father and thy mother Thou shalt not kill Thou shalt not commit adultery Thou shalt not steal Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour Thou shalt not covet (various) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Something as foundational for a civilization as the 10 Commandments is quite appropriate Thou shalt have no other gods before me Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy Honour thy father and thy mother Thou shalt not kill Thou shalt not commit adultery Thou shalt not steal Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour Thou shalt not covet (various) That doesn't dispute what I said, so what is your point? Just because we don't have a hierocracy doesn't mean that our law and institutions cannot be influenced by the scriptures, the 10 commandments, etc. The historical evidence says quite the opposite. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 5:41:37 AM EDT
[#18]
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When you read that part of the Constitution, one has to get creative to see it as prohibiting this monument. Of course, judges are good at that, having fully embraced the mantle of being legislators and constitutional amenders. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Oklahoma constitution which prohibits the use of public property for the support of religion. When you read that part of the Constitution, one has to get creative to see it as prohibiting this monument. Of course, judges are good at that, having fully embraced the mantle of being legislators and constitutional amenders. Really? "No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion" |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 6:02:29 PM EDT
[#19]
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That doesn't dispute what I said, so what is your point? Just because we don't have a hierocracy doesn't mean that our law and institutions cannot be influenced by the scriptures, the 10 commandments, etc. The historical evidence says quite the opposite. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Something as foundational for a civilization as the 10 Commandments is quite appropriate Thou shalt have no other gods before me Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy Honour thy father and thy mother Thou shalt not kill Thou shalt not commit adultery <---can probably color this blue as well, seeing as how we don't have laws against adultery, even if it's a shitty thing to do.[Flywire edit] Thou shalt not steal Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour Thou shalt not covet (various) That doesn't dispute what I said, so what is your point? Just because we don't have a hierocracy doesn't mean that our law and institutions cannot be influenced by the scriptures, the 10 commandments, etc. The historical evidence says quite the opposite. The 10 commandments hardly influenced anything in modern society as evidenced by FlatDarkEarf's post. Even the ones we do have as laws against "killing, stealing, etc." have been codified long before the 10 commandments. People can say whatever influenced them, but when looking at X and seeing that it has slim to nothing to do with our laws (and actually goes against our constitution - see "Thou shalt have no other gods before me"), as well as just rehashes of already codified laws, it's not that remarkable. It's certainly not "foundational for a civilization". The 10 commandments is a remake of already existing codified laws/morals mixed with egotistical nonsense. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 6:08:33 PM EDT
[#20]
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I believe the Constitution itself is law and our judiciary branch are charged with enforcing it. Which is what happened here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yay, another Christian prosecution circle jerk when someone makes them obey the law. And what law was that? The relevant portion of the Oklahoma Constitution was posted and it is a real stretch to say that this violated that part of the law. It sure as heck does not violate the U.S. Constitution. Of course, if you believe that judges have the power to legislate and amend constitutions... I believe the Constitution itself is law and our judiciary branch are charged with enforcing it. Which is what happened here. I AM THE LAW! |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 6:10:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, Christianity ad what emanates from it and the mode of thinking of the Judaic civilization from whence it sprang are pivotal parts of our culture. They inform even non-believers who have been brought up within our civilization. Morality under those transcendent principles underlies Western liberty. "Free individualism uninformed by moral value rots at its core and soon brings about conditions that pave the way for surrender to tyranny." And for conservatives, Christianity is the principal basis of what constitutes 'moral value.' The state, for better or worse, has a role to play in all of this. It can do cultural harm by its actions or failures as much as any other element in a civilization. Purging anything having to do with 'moral value' at minimum sends the wrong message and helps to negatively shape society, and for the Left, it is but a stepping stone for pushing further and further well beyond something that on its face can seem so trivial. It's nowhere near as simple an issue as some people seem to understand it. One could probably write a series of books on the subject. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The culture war is far from a triviality. Some of the battles may be small, but when it comes to the bigger picture in this regard, much is at stake, and if you lose enough smaller battles that does have an impact. If I were king, I'd leave up all statues of confederate generals and 10 commandments, with the understanding that no more would be built. No, Christianity ad what emanates from it and the mode of thinking of the Judaic civilization from whence it sprang are pivotal parts of our culture. They inform even non-believers who have been brought up within our civilization. Morality under those transcendent principles underlies Western liberty. "Free individualism uninformed by moral value rots at its core and soon brings about conditions that pave the way for surrender to tyranny." And for conservatives, Christianity is the principal basis of what constitutes 'moral value.' The state, for better or worse, has a role to play in all of this. It can do cultural harm by its actions or failures as much as any other element in a civilization. Purging anything having to do with 'moral value' at minimum sends the wrong message and helps to negatively shape society, and for the Left, it is but a stepping stone for pushing further and further well beyond something that on its face can seem so trivial. It's nowhere near as simple an issue as some people seem to understand it. One could probably write a series of books on the subject. It is true that concepts of justice, and rights, may have eventually developed in these societies, but I don't think anything expressed in the 10 commandments relates to this at all beyond what is common in most successful cultures with written laws. "Don't kill people that you aren't permitted to kill", "don't steal things", "don't commit adultery", "respect your elders", "don't lie" are not unique to Judaism. Hell, i'm sure ISIS has laws concerning all of these things. Not to mention the fact that "only worship the approved religion" is completely opposed to liberty as we know it today. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 6:15:49 PM EDT
[#22]
Here's a photo of the removal that ran in the Associated Press. The photo editor somehow missed the "Surprise Buttsecks" shadow in the background.
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Posted: 10/7/2015 6:16:13 PM EDT
[#23]
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I'll try to be more direct: The gist of the First Amendment is that you can have any gods you want, but you're not allowed to impose them on others. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Government: "God, get out of our lives. Except when we need you." I see you failed to address the point. I'll try to be more direct: The gist of the First Amendment is that you can have any gods you want, but you're not allowed to impose them on others. Not even close. the 1stAm says that the federal government may not be involved in any way in the creation and support of official churches and that it may not interfere with the free exercise of religion. Everything else you believe about the religion clauses of the 1stAm is fabricated from whole cloth. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 6:16:25 PM EDT
[#24]
How about they work on the fucktarded liquor laws instead.
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Posted: 10/7/2015 11:04:09 PM EDT
[#25]
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I was discussing the state of Oklahoma's Constitution, since it's the one being discussed in this article. You go ahead and call it a "stretch" if you want. The guy in the blaxck robe says you're wrong and his is the only opinion that matters here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yay, another Christian prosecution circle jerk when someone makes them obey the law. And what law was that? The relevant portion of the Oklahoma Constitution was posted and it is a real stretch to say that this violated that part of the law. It sure as heck does not violate the U.S. Constitution. Of course, if you believe that judges have the power to legislate and amend constitutions... I believe the Constitution itself is law and our judiciary branch are charged with enforcing it. Which is what happened here. The Constitution (I assume you're speaking about the U.S. Constitution here) does not prohibit this display. That is the law. The law supersedes the will of any judge. To say otherwise is to say that the judges are in fact supreme, which is to say that they have the power to amend the laws including our highest laws. That's a dangerous position to take. I'd be interested in knowing which part of the U.S. Constitution you believe this display violated. I was discussing the state of Oklahoma's Constitution, since it's the one being discussed in this article. You go ahead and call it a "stretch" if you want. The guy in the blaxck robe says you're wrong and his is the only opinion that matters here. Keep that opinion in mind when you think about Obamacare and gay marriage being shoved down this country's throat. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 11:11:53 PM EDT
[#26]
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Suck that cock citizen! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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God's law is out, and the queer law is in. Yay.  Suck that cock citizen! Lol you nasty fuck. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 11:14:03 PM EDT
[#27]
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Muslims didn't found this country, nor make it great. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Everyone would be all piss and vinegar (and rightly so) if someone wanted to put in a Muslim statue. Muslims didn't found this country, nor make it great. Nor contribute when they arrived in any significant way. |
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Posted: 10/7/2015 11:55:32 PM EDT
[#28]
I'm so tired of the loud minority running roughshod over the majority to change our traditions and values. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:02:40 AM EDT
[#29]
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Muslims didn't found this country, nor make it great. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Everyone would be all piss and vinegar (and rightly so) if someone wanted to put in a Muslim statue. Muslims didn't found this country, nor make it great. Nor are they or Satanists in line with the US Constitution. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:15:01 AM EDT
[#30]
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Good. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 1:20:27 AM EDT
[#31]
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So you're ok with a big satanic statue right? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Yay, another Christian prosecution circle jerk when someone makes them obey the law. And what law was that? The relevant portion of the Oklahoma Constitution was posted and it is a real stretch to say that this violated that part of the law. It sure as heck does not violate the U.S. Constitution. Of course, if you believe that judges have the power to legislate and amend constitutions... I believe the Constitution itself is law and our judiciary branch are charged with enforcing it. Which is what happened here. Umm, no. A statue doesn't establish a state religion. No one was forced to worship anything. And secondly, the executive is tasked with enforcing law, nor the judiciary. So you're ok with a big satanic statue right? Worshipping evil and demons is not in line with our laws. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:04:23 AM EDT
[#32]
I never thought I would look back at the 1990's with fond remembrance.
Back then the ridiculous shit like this that has happened would have been laughed at as implausible... |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 2:11:47 AM EDT
[#33]
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And there is your mistake. Christianity is not A religion, but rather any number of religions based on a common core. This country was FOUNDED on that same common core. There is NOTHING wrong with displaying the common touchstone for much of our society. As far as minority religions, the law ensures they are not prohibited from practicing their beliefs (within the bounds of what is commonly accepted as lawful). Government isn't creating a state-sponsored religion, but rather recognizing the basis for our societal "moral compass". Go ahead and lie until you are blue in the face, but most of western civilization is based on Judeo-Christian ethics. It is not an "establishment of religion" to recognize that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Pretty much sums up the state of the union right there People are obsessed with trivialities, like the 10 commandments, or trying to remove them (which I've said for years is a waste of time and money). Meanwhile we have terrorists abroad trying to start WW3, Russia being belligerent, and admitted socialist as a democratic candidate (rather than a socialist who pretends they aren't a socialist), democrats who want to increase entitlements, import poor people from south America (to bolster their socialist voting rolls), quash free speech to stop "racism" and "triggers". The culture war is far from a triviality. Some of the battles may be small, but when it comes to the bigger picture in this regard, much is at stake, and if you lose enough smaller battles that does have an impact. If I were king, I'd leave up all statues of confederate generals and 10 commandments, with the understanding that no more would be built. And there is your mistake. Christianity is not A religion, but rather any number of religions based on a common core. This country was FOUNDED on that same common core. There is NOTHING wrong with displaying the common touchstone for much of our society. As far as minority religions, the law ensures they are not prohibited from practicing their beliefs (within the bounds of what is commonly accepted as lawful). Government isn't creating a state-sponsored religion, but rather recognizing the basis for our societal "moral compass". Go ahead and lie until you are blue in the face, but most of western civilization is based on Judeo-Christian ethics. It is not an "establishment of religion" to recognize that. Well said! |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:02:59 AM EDT
[#34]
Moral relativism in this thread. The favorite ploy of liberals.
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:08:16 AM EDT
[#35]
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Trying to remove crosses and commandments statues is mean-spirited and short-sighted, particularly at time when America has never been more secularist. The best part of wisdom is in tolerating each other's delusions. This. Toleration is only demanded of those in the majority. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:10:08 AM EDT
[#36]
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Really? "No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The Oklahoma constitution which prohibits the use of public property for the support of religion. When you read that part of the Constitution, one has to get creative to see it as prohibiting this monument. Of course, judges are good at that, having fully embraced the mantle of being legislators and constitutional amenders. Really? "No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion" There were earlier cases involving chapels on state property in Oklahoma. Basically the courts ruled it was OK if the buildings were non-denominational and served the needs of the people of the state and not one denomination. This last court decision is a reversal of those earlier decisions. I'm wondering if they are going to dare stripping out the various chapels on state colleges and other state properties. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:11:39 AM EDT
[#37]
One thing is clear from this thread, and that is that many here who consider themselves conservatives based on guns are nothing more than progressive liberals who like guns.
We've seen these types inundate this site since at least 2008. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:24:05 AM EDT
[#38]
Have any of you who embrace this idea of destroying or moving memorials thought for a second how much more freedom we all had when this was not an issue?
You guys have no clue what you are advocating. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:36:05 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No they don't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would people be this worked up if it had been an Islamic statue? How about Scientologist? That would be for the people of the state, through their elected representatives to decide. dearborne blasts out the call to prayer everyday. zero fucks given. I don't live in that shit hole. No they don't. Yes, they do. 5 times a day. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 3:40:10 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Religion has no place in government. Period. If you disagree, you don't support freedom of religion which was one of the founding principles of this country. All of our Presidents have been Christians and have evoked their religion.| Funny, that we have managed to be a world hyper power and have defeated all others. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 6:00:29 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Moral relativism in this thread. The favorite ploy of liberals. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 6:03:21 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All of our Presidents have been Christians and have evoked their religion.| Funny, that we have managed to be a world hyper power and have defeated all others. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Religion has no place in government. Period. If you disagree, you don't support freedom of religion which was one of the founding principles of this country. All of our Presidents have been Christians and have evoked their religion.| Funny, that we have managed to be a world hyper power and have defeated all others. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 6:47:51 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of our Presidents have been Christians and have evoked their religion.| Funny, that we have managed to be a world hyper power and have defeated all others. Well, except for Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Somalia, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq, and, pretty soon, Syria. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 7:18:06 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nor are they or Satanists in line with the US Constitution. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Muslims didn't found this country, nor make it great. Nor are they or Satanists in line with the US Constitution. Um, neither are Christians. Let's start with the First Commandment and the First Amendment: they are flat-out incompatible. The Founders very deliberately gave us a secular nation. |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 7:40:01 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never thought I would look back at the 1990's with fond remembrance. Back then the ridiculous shit like this that has happened would have been laughed at as implausible... Pray on it... I'm sure it will get better for you |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 7:44:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One thing is clear from this thread, and that is that many here who consider themselves conservatives based on guns are nothing more than progressive liberals who like guns. We've seen these types inundate this site since at least 2008. Whats worse is they don't even realize how Liberal thinking they are |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 7:55:26 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, they do. 5 times a day. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Would people be this worked up if it had been an Islamic statue? How about Scientologist? That would be for the people of the state, through their elected representatives to decide. dearborne blasts out the call to prayer everyday. zero fucks given. I don't live in that shit hole. No they don't. Yes, they do. 5 times a day. What city service is in charge of it and where do they broadcast from? |
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Posted: 10/8/2015 9:06:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um, neither are Christians. Let's start with the First Commandment and the First Amendment: they are flat-out incompatible. The Founders very deliberately gave us a secular nation. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Muslims didn't found this country, nor make it great. Nor are they or Satanists in line with the US Constitution. Um, neither are Christians. Let's start with the First Commandment and the First Amendment: they are flat-out incompatible. The Founders very deliberately gave us a secular nation. What does "establishment of religion" mean? What does it mean to "make no law respecting an establishment of religion?" Did any of the states ratifying the BoR have established churches at the time of ratification? Did any of the states ratifying the BoR have established churches after the time of ratification? What is the incompatibility between "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof?" |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 2:33:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep, just look how good Christian Obama is doing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Religion has no place in government. Period. If you disagree, you don't support freedom of religion which was one of the founding principles of this country. All of our Presidents have been Christians and have evoked their religion.| Funny, that we have managed to be a world hyper power and have defeated all others. Black theologians are hardly Christian. |
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Posted: 10/9/2015 2:35:31 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, except for Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Somalia, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq, and, pretty soon, Syria. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
All of our Presidents have been Christians and have evoked their religion.| Funny, that we have managed to be a world hyper power and have defeated all others. Well, except for Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Somalia, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq, and, pretty soon, Syria. You're obviously ignorant of our history. |
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