LOL

1.  Typical GD LE thread
2.  Glad I don't live and work in SoCal any longer.
3.  Dreamers

When you carry you should do everything in your power to avoid anything that could possibly lead to a physical confrontation. That means sometimes you have to swallow your pride, STFU, turn the other cheek, and walk away.

Apparently some people balls grow 2 sizes larger when they carry.

If you are crarrying I would avoid demanding that someone turn off their phone. It is not worth taking a chance inserting yourself in a situation that could get physical. Be the bigger man and turn the other cheek. I though this was common sense.

Well said. Those are my feelings in a nutshell.

Seems like the officer may be facing charges, or should be.  If average Joe sees a kid walk on his lawn, can he go out and grab that kid and drag them back into the house?  I am suspecting kidnapping charges would be in order.

Cop or armed citizen comes upon that scene, and sees the adult male dragging the juvenile pull a gun vs releasing the juvie when being confronted by people objecting to the act, you really think the neutral armed party is going to read the unarmed 'mob' as the real threat not the armed man dragging a juvie?

So Zimmerman who didn't engage Treyvon and was subsequently jumped from behind, pummeled with punches while he was pinned to the ground as well as having his head smashed against the ground was in the wrong?  Please think before you post.

Zimmerman DIDN'T go looking for trouble.  Zimmerman's job was neighborhood watch and a neighborhood which had been hit several times in the past by ghetto rats.  So Z-man, seeing a ghetto rat who had never been seen in that subdivision, approached (not engaged in a physical altercation)  the little fucktard to question why he was there.

Man, that's certainly looking for trouble, isn't it?

You are correct that the kids were in the wrong for trespassing.  However, actions need to be proportional to the crime. For example, you can't throw grenades at kids stealing your lawn gnome.

No, I dabble.  Today I dabble in "difference between approaching someone who may be armed and a threat and approaching a smart-mouthed kid".  Tomorrow it will be something else.

I'm well aware of the facts of the zimmerman case.  He obviously did everything right that night.  Quality decision making both before, during and afterwards.  He should give a use of force seminar to GD.

Well, as long as you're acknowledging you have no clue how the law works, carry on!

Yep pretty much how it is supposed to work here.  Seems it may be different in CA, or maybe that is just the way the statute  is worded and the DA uses more reasonable standards?

You are making an assumption about what happened before the video started.

We have no proof that the cop chased the kid down and got physical first.  The only person I see retreating is the cop walking backwards away from his property.

A couple interesting questions here are; what does CA law say about an off duty cop's duty to act when they see a crime?  And what happened to start this incident. We only have two statements from people both under lots of adrenaline and emotion caught up in the middle of a violent incident, which makes their statements less then reliable, just from a biological perspective.

Statement one from the kid was basically:  "You told her to get off your lawn and called her a cunt."  

Statement two from the cop was basically:  "You threatened to shoot me."

All we can infer from that is that the kid was not initially involved in whatever the cop was doing and he went and inserted himself into the situation.  And possibly he threatened the cop.  We don't know if he did anything else or not.  We also do not know what made the cop leave his property, and then continue to move away from it.  was he dragging the kid home to his parents?  That used to be a normal reaction from an adult when a kid was being a little shit.

All that's a bit of legal gymnastics.  If you're a cop in Anaheim, CA, you don't want to be engaging in an on duty use of force in your front yard.  Especially out of your agency jurisdiction.   I've seen a WV state trooper get away with shooting an unarmed guy in his front yard after they got into a fight over speeding on an atv.  But that's WV.

The more I read about the incident and the history this neighborhood has had with the little criminals, the more I side with the cop.

lol.  You need to catch up to the facts.

Where the video starts is half a block away from the guy's property.  He was dragging the kid back to his property.

Oh, and we do know that the homeowner chased down the kid and made physical contact first, because that's what Anaheim police said about the situation.

Unless you think the police are lying.

That might be the way things run in Miami. As a child of Southern California streets, my take is those kids probably are more thug than you think.

What if my lawn gnomes are really really sweet?
Attached File

And to think that a remote controlled water sprinkler would've been much more effective and not caused this shitstorm.

When it is all said and done......even if you are 100% in the right, you have to ask yourself "was it really worth it?"

Sometimes, you have to choose your battles.  

I don't think that would have helped.

In doing that, he would have "disrespected" them which would have led to another escalation.

Your mistake is assuming they are like us, they are not.

ETA:

Like what I said earlier, you have no good options in dealing with this. Either sit in your house like a Coward and hope they get bored and leave, or go outside and risk the possibility of being this guy (or Zimmerman).

Of course, if your not a Cop, and would have been in this exact situation, GD would be clamoring to support you and there would probably be a GoFundMe, besides the MYOB Brigade.

Nobody said it yet....what's the cops screen name?  

The kids in Miami would not have walked on the lawn because there would have been a fence and a dog. I don't understand why the houses there don't have fences

So you have seen someone actually fire into one of the barrels on purpose, not because they didn't know what they were doing?  (pulled the slide back and didn't remove the magazine?)  Is it negligent to fire a weapon into a device designed for it if you ment to do it?

Yeah...that's my point.  I guess you think those tactics are sound.....

That is a technique....

Take the part where he was a cop completely out of it.  What would the thread be like then?  My bet is it would be about getting the cops to let the guy out of jail.

cant edit worth a crap!

A guy I worked with went outside his house to tell some "teens" to get off his car, they beat the shit out of him and used his head as a soccer ball.  He ended up with a disabling TBI from the incident.

In California a police officers jurisdiction is state wide. As soon as he identifies himself as a peace officer he is back on duty. Though that bites them in the ass sometimes. I know a cop who was off duty at the bar. Broke up a fight, identified himself as a peace officer. Otjer cops showed up and he got in trouble for being under the influence of alcohol on duty.

Every single car I ever had was garaged, I remember paying more in garages than car payments. I would see 20 fucking people using one car as a chair, I seen so many fights over that in my life. A car ain't worth getting arrested or pummeled

I haven't read all 10 pages, but I will echo what some have already said:

Deescalate, deescalate, deescalate.  I've had this drilled into my head in training classes and concealed carry class.  Anyone that carries has a bigger responsibility to avoid confrontations like this.  Going hands on over such a civil matter is just plain stupid.  Even more stupid while carrying.  Which begs the question... would this man gone hands on in this crowd if he were not carrying?  Probably not. 


Dude, I don't care if you have a badge or not, a much smarter move would have been to use your brain and call 911.  Or maybe, recognize that a few kids walking on your sacred grass isn't really such a big deal after all.

How could you be a cop and not have a fence around your property and a dog for that matter? How can you be anyone else besides a cop and not have a fence around your property. Once they open the gate and come inside it's a game changer

California state police? Yes.  City PD?  No.  He has the authority (as does any other citizen) to detain a suspect until the police in that jurisdiction arrive to make an arrest, but except in certain circumstances (pursuit of fleeing suspect across the line, being requested by another jurisdiction), there is no "blanket statewide jurisdiction" for local LEOs.  

If you paid attention to the charges (suspicion of battery), you would realize that the off-duty out-of-jurisdiction cop was treated as if he was Joe Sixpack with regards to the kids' actions against him.  If he had jurisdiction and acting as an LEO, the charges would have been resisting arrest and assaulting an officer.  Granted, those charges would have also been shitcanned as soon as the video made it patently obvious that no crime was committed (and thus no probable cause to make an arrest), but there's still a difference between fighting with some random guy and resisting an officer making an arrest.  

All that being said, the downside to physically detaining someone until the cops show up is if no crime was committed, you're now dallying with assault and kidnapping.  Aggravated assault (or the equivalent) if you use a gun.  Reckless discharge if you fuck up and pop a round off.  Guaranteed you're getting charged?  Of course not, but the possibility exists, and the likelihood increases if your actions were "politically embarrassing", to put it mildly.  Further, acting as a "concerned citizen" rather than a LEO, he probably has no liability immunity (as he would in his own jurisdiction).  Maybe his union has liability insurance to cover actions made off duty and out of jurisdiction, but if not, his only protection is whatever personal liability insurance he has.  It's possible one can claim ignorance of the law, but that's an uphill battle.


Hey, I get your point.  I get that these little turdburglers deserved something for walking across a yard not their own and disrespecting the owner.  Nobody is acting like they were model citizens on their way to the local shelter to read stories to homeless children.  That said, there's often a difference between what we want to do, and what we legally can do.  As a result, I expect that instead of the *something* they deserve, the turdnuggets in question (especially the 13 year old) will get a settlement check.  The only probable upside here is that if the LAPD wheedles their way out of liability (and I fully expect them to wash their hands of this in the attempt), the check will be limited to the liability cap on his insurance policy and what the lawyers think a cop can pay on his own.

Lol 100% wrong

Anyone who lives on a corner and gets pissed about people cutting across there lawn without having a fence around it is one dumb mofo.

Lots of fail in that post. Probably best to stop.

There are certain segments of our society with whom any interaction brings the possibility of deadly violence. When dealing with them, one first needs to ask, Am I willing to be kill or be killed over this?, because that's often where it leads.

As soon as the leftist SJWs start wailing and screeching on FB, you know the little ghetto shitbirds were most likely in the wrong.

Edit: Derp

To be or not to be, that is the question

Those poor whales..............

Granted, I'm going off California Penal Code, which specifies an officer has arrest authority a) within their political subdivision b) if the CLEO in the other subdivision gives consent or c) there is immediate danger to person or property.

a) he was not in his subdivision
b) I doubt he called up the Orange County sheriff and got the go-ahead
c) he did not approach the situation as if there was an immediate danger

Of course, this is just my opinion.  There could have been some other reason Anaheim charged the kid with "suspicion of battery" rather than "resisting arrest", other than the LAPD officer not having jurisdiction and probable cause to make an arrest.  I'll grant you that.  I'll change my statement to it strongly appears, under California state law, that he had no jurisdiction.

You have to admit Trump is going to make a lot of whales lose weight

Maybe that's his plan?

Get em off the couch and marching to lose weight and cut healthcare costs....

Someone should make a video of that google commercial with the dad asking google what sound does a whale make, then cut in the fat lib from Trumps inauguration screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Stop what?  Using California state law to form an opinion as to the jurisdictional authority of a City LEO the next county over, or for using it to form an opinion as to whether probable cause existed to make an arrest, or for using it to form an opinion as to what would happen to you if you ran down the street, grabbed a mouthy teenager, and dragged him kicking and screaming back onto your property because you got disrespected, or for acknowledging the history of who gets paid when a cop goes all clownshoes on somebody?

You're right.  This being GD, I should just shit all over the keyboard.

Some HOAs don't allow front yard fences, not saying this is the case where he lives though.

If you're off-duty and see a hoodrat shoplift a pack of cigs from a stop-n-rob would you attempt to arrest him out front of the store with 5 or 6 of his hoodrat associates looking on?
No... because that would be a stupid position to place yourself in for a misdemeanor.
If for some dumb reason you did confront said shoplifting hoodrat and one of his homies threatened to shoot your ass, would you then escalate to making a solo off-duty arrest for that threat?
If so... you don't have the judgement or the temperament to carry a gun much less a gun and a badge.
Same with the supposed trespassing (which unless the kids violated a previously established trespass order aint gonna stick) or the attempted arrest for a felony threat (which is going to be tough to justify when "Ofc. Off-Duty" was the first to utter fighting words "cunt!").

As to an officer being required to act on felonies while off-duty...
"Duty to act" doesn't always mean jump into the middle of shit solo like Superman.
If it's a back-up required/recommended situation on-duty, it's damn sure not a smart idea to do it solo off-duty.

That off-duty cop started with a piss poor plan and doubled down on it in a cascade of dumb decisions.

Mumble something? The kid threatened to murder him.....