Montana may secede: DC vs. Heller - Page 7

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Montana may secede: DC vs. Heller (Page 7 of 13)

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:09:09 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think this is how America will eventually fall. We will simply splinter into a bunch of little nations. Anyone with the least amount of vision can see it happening.

This nation is so divided, perhaps more so than any time in our history. But those divisions are much more than the split between liberals and conservatives and libertarians. The split is largely geographic in nature. For example, people in Texas don't generally share the same beliefs of people from New York and vice versa. Neither group of people seem willing to accept government rule of the opposite group. The nation is becoming fractured like this all over.

I can eventually see a time when this country breaks down into little groups of states. I can easily see New England become a little liberal, socialist utopia. I can see the states in the South all joining together. I can see lots of states in the American Midwest joining together. California, controlled by Los Angeles and San Francisco liberals and hippies becoming it's own little country. It may even fractionalize farther, with individual cities controlling themselves independently of the surrounding terrain.

This is what things are coming to folks. A nation can only be a nation when it's people possess a shared bond, something that binds them all together. For example, take South Korea. Nearly all the people who live there are Korean. Even if South Korea and North Korea someday merge into a unified country again, they will still all be Koreans. They share something in common with each other. Meanwhile, the US no longer has any such common bonds among it's people. We have blacks and we have whites. We have hispanics (millions here illegally). We have Asians. We have Arabs. And we have such a wide and extreme range of political views that the nation is almost a powderkeg.

There was a time when most people here in the US shared the same visions and were united together. But it seems that time has come and gone. Today America much more closely resembles what you might see out on a prison yard somewhere, where little clusters of people gravitate together based upon shared characteristics (usually related to religion and race as well as other personal beliefs and shared interests). And just as these prison gangs fight among each other, I look for the same to eventually happen to America in general. Either we go to war with each other with the winner to take all....or we split up into little geographic areas separated largely based on politics, religious beliefs and ethnicity and the nation dissolves.

Sadly, this is where I think we are headed. America will never fall to an outside army. It will fall from within because we are no longer the same nation we were in the formative years when everyone was working toward similar goals and were largely united in shared values, beliefs and had a common bond. Now we are a nation of people who are the exact opposite. Something will eventually have to give.

You are one of the few people who sees things the way they are. Anyone who's a student of history knows that there has never ever been a nation that didn't eventually break apart. Anyone who thinks this one will be any different is fooling themselves.

The difference being, some of us are willing to save what can be saved, and let the rest hang from its own rope.

Absolutely right. That's all that can be done.

And the founders founded us a nation which was a confederation of individual states, with a common constitutional rights framework, which allowed individual states' self-determination to a large extent, in order to help alleviate this problem and still remain bonded.
The later actions of strong centralization and control is what will eventually ruin the nation.
Strong states, individual liberties, and a light hand of the Federal Gov't is what was prescribed, and what should still be.

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:13:27 AM EDT

[#2]

I wonder which "other states" were admitted into the Union by a similar contract...

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:14:32 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
This is a state where over half the land is owned by the Federal Government.

Montana, secede from the US, and give up all those Federal bennies?

Regaining half your land sounds like a pretty strong incentive to me...

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:17:02 AM EDT

[#4]

I'm totally in.

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:18:47 AM EDT

[#5]

... IIRC we tried this once before.... too bad it didn't work....

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:19:25 AM EDT

[#6]

What's the job market like out there?
Here I am stuck behing the Cheese Curtain

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:21:58 AM EDT

[#7]

mmmmmmm.... fried cheese curds.

I miss eating at Great Dane's Pub in Madison... good times.

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:23:43 AM EDT

[#8]

not to cause the usual stir, but last time there were contract violations and a group of states protested and left - the federal government imposed reconstruction on them, rewrote their state constitutions and took away all those pesky issues. Only a few states might still have that wording and it be valid.

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:33:02 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What is the job market like in Montana. I already know the trout fishing kicks ass.

Not the best. Still the best damn place to live

Job market isn't that important if you can hunt, clean, cook and build things

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:34:37 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
What is the job market like in Montana. I already know the trout fishing kicks ass.

Not the best. Still the best damn place to live

Sovereign State of Montana Border Patrol will be hiring. A horse, three squares and a monthly whiskey ration is all I'd want.

I am with you. I will also require musket balls, caps, patches and powder cause I'm gonna kick it old school yo

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:36:59 AM EDT

[#11]

Not gonna happen. The status quo is too important for most.

Posted: 2/20/2008 5:58:05 AM EDT

[#12]

Go, Montana!

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:05:49 AM EDT

[#13]

Live free or die

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:10:46 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
mmmmmmm.... fried cheese curds.

I miss eating at Great Dane's Pub in Madison... good times.

Yes, the Pretzels there are quite wonderful...!

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:15:50 AM EDT

[#15]

Fuck, I need to get some land out there!

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:19:08 AM EDT

[#16]

Maybe I should be looking at moving to Montana.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:25:52 AM EDT

[#17]

I'm in full support of secession from the union. I've been wanting Texas to leave for quite a while. The USA isn't the USA anymore. It's a conglomerate of socialist authoritarian regimes.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:26:18 AM EDT

[#18]

I hope they secede. I'm down with the Allied States of America.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:32:09 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a state where over half the land is owned by the Federal Government.

Montana, secede from the US, and give up all those Federal bennies?

Regaining half your land sounds like a pretty strong incentive to me...

You can only REgain that which you had at one point. Montana entered statehood via territory status. When the US acquired what became the Montana Territory ALL the land belonged to the Federal Government.

Montana will NOT secede. Anyone who thinks they really will, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that's for sale...

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:33:05 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a state where over half the land is owned by the Federal Government.

Montana, secede from the US, and give up all those Federal bennies?

Regaining half your land sounds like a pretty strong incentive to me...

You can only REgain that which you had at one point. Montana entered statehood via territory status. When the US acquired what became the Montana Territory ALL the land belonged to the Federal Government.

Montana will NOT secede. Anyone who thinks they really will, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that's for sale...

so be it. then we see civil war. it's that simple.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:33:45 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a state where over half the land is owned by the Federal Government.

Montana, secede from the US, and give up all those Federal bennies?

Regaining half your land sounds like a pretty strong incentive to me...

You can only REgain that which you had at one point. Montana entered statehood via territory status. When the US acquired what became the Montana Territory ALL the land belonged to the Federal Government.

Montana will NOT secede. Anyone who thinks they really will, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that's for sale...

so be it. then we see civil war. it's that simple.

What color is the sky in your world?

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:35:56 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a state where over half the land is owned by the Federal Government.

Montana, secede from the US, and give up all those Federal bennies?

Regaining half your land sounds like a pretty strong incentive to me...

You can only REgain that which you had at one point. Montana entered statehood via territory status. When the US acquired what became the Montana Territory ALL the land belonged to the Federal Government.

Montana will NOT secede. Anyone who thinks they really will, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that's for sale...

so be it. then we see civil war. it's that simple.

What color is the sky in your world?

blue but getting darker every day. I think you're living in a dream world if you think this society is not coming to a point to where it's ready to clash. Just take a look at the elections this year if you want an idea.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:36:16 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
So, if all of you ARFCOMers move to Montana after they secede, would the US respond militarily and the handful of armchair comandos have to face the US Army?

That would suck balls.

Patrick Henry does not approve this message.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:42:48 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted: Sovereign State of Montana Border Patrol will be hiring. A horse, three squares and a monthly whiskey ration is all I'd want.

I like the way you think.

Oringinally Posted By Patriot73: I am with you. I will also require musket balls, caps, patches and powder cause I'm gonna kick it old school yo

CMMG is making a blackpowder upper now....

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:44:12 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is a state that is gradually filling up with insufferable leftist Californian refugees who are slowly imposing their granola views on the rest of the state.

Sounds like the rest of us have to move in and out-vote them. I'll join the convoy from the mid-Atlantic region.

You may want to look up Bloody Kansas on Google.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:46:13 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
I'm SURE that Sarah Brady, Diane Feinstein, and a fwe other anti-gunners would find this to be rather frighening.

I believe Heller will go in our favor. But if not...I'm moving to Montana!

CJ

doubt that, such people want a fight.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:47:13 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
not to cause the usual stir, but last time there were contract violations and a group of states protested and left - the federal government imposed reconstruction on them, rewrote their state constitutions and took away all those pesky issues. Only a few states might still have that wording and it be valid.

If Texas or Montana secedes from the union, the feds are welcome to sue.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:47:37 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Kalispell is a nice town near Glacier National Park.

Kalispell, MT

Gettin' too damn expensive there.

Probably because of all the californians and rich elitist fat cats who moved there, bought up all the cheap land and drove the prices up, while trying to bring california with them.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:51:02 AM EDT

[#29]

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:51:52 AM EDT

[#30]

calm down, we're not going anywhere.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:53:42 AM EDT

[#31]

With all this talk about ARFCOMers moving to Montana, I'm going to start building full service basements there, complete with high speed internet and moms.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:53:49 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Kalispell is a nice town near Glacier National Park.

Kalispell, MT

Gettin' too damn expensive there.

Probably because of all the californians and rich elitist fat cats who moved there, bought up all the cheap land and drove the prices up, while trying to bring california with them.

bingo.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:55:07 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Kalispell is a nice town near Glacier National Park.

Kalispell, MT

holy crap!!! it is only 16 degrees there today!!! i guess i will be free and cold

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:55:26 AM EDT

[#34]

I thought we were all gonna move to Wyoming and start "disappearing" politicians...

Oh, well. Been to Montana, gladly go back.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:56:09 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Kalispell is a nice town near Glacier National Park.

Kalispell, MT

Gettin' too damn expensive there.

Probably because of all the californians and rich elitist fat cats who moved there, bought up all the cheap land and drove the prices up, while trying to bring california with them.

bingo.

They're coming to Texas more and more. Just bad news when you see Commiefornia license plates.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:57:02 AM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Kalispell is a nice town near Glacier National Park.

Kalispell, MT

holy crap!!! it is only 16 degrees there today!!! i guess i will be free and cold

it's definitely not 16 degrees. i don't think it's below 20-25 or so. but yes, you will be free and cold.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:57:38 AM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wonder what the governor of Montana thinks about this.

I would think the Gov really has nothing to do with the state's relationship with the US.
His job is to govern and concern himself with internal affairs.

My reading of the Statehood contract, if it was anulled, is that it would simply revert Montana to a US Territory, eliminating all Federal tax revenues from the state. That would be perfectly legal, if the contract is held as valid. As such, Federal revenue or "tax" collecting agencies such as the IRS, BATFE, and Social Security administration would not be welcome any longer. Of course that also means MT would not get Federal monies for Highways, schools, law enforcement etc anymore. It would not become a separate country, but would have much greater leeway in governing itself. It would become the "US Territory of Montana". JMHO.

I'm not a history expert (all I remember from school is "In 1493, Columbus sailed the ocean sea") or an Internet- or Meatworld-accredited attorney, but this post lays out some intriguing what-ifs.

Good for Montana.

Posted: 2/20/2008 6:58:02 AM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Kalispell is a nice town near Glacier National Park.

Kalispell, MT

Gettin' too damn expensive there.

Probably because of all the californians and rich elitist fat cats who moved there, bought up all the cheap land and drove the prices up, while trying to bring california with them.

bingo.

They're coming to Texas more and more. Just bad news when you see Commiefornia license plates.

i believe it. nothing like having the kind of income that will allow you to buy a lot of open space.

Posted: 2/20/2008 7:00:33 AM EDT

[#39]

.

Posted: 2/20/2008 7:15:14 AM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
12 pages and nothing from Dave_A yet?

Anyways, if it would be a constitutional government, a real-world Galt's Gulch, I'd go.

If we all moved there and it didn't work out, think of all the electoral votes Montana would have though!

He is taking notes of screen names and IPs, I'm sure.

-Ben

Posted: 2/20/2008 7:23:43 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I wonder what the governor of Montana thinks about this.

I would think the Gov really has nothing to do with the state's relationship with the US.
His job is to govern and concern himself with internal affairs.

My reading of the Statehood contract, if it was anulled, is that it would simply revert Montana to a US Territory, eliminating all Federal tax revenues from the state. That would be perfectly legal, if the contract is held as valid. As such, Federal revenue or "tax" collecting agencies such as the IRS, BATFE, and Social Security administration would not be welcome any longer. Of course that also means MT would not get Federal monies for Highways, schools, law enforcement etc anymore. It would not become a separate country, but would have much greater leeway in governing itself. It would become the "US Territory of Montana". JMHO.

I'm not a history expert (all I remember from school is "In 1493, Columbus sailed the ocean sea") or an Internet- or Meatworld-accredited attorney, but this post lays out some intriguing what-ifs.

Good for Montana.

It's "In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue".

Also, as far as I know, a state can never revert to territory status.

Posted: 2/20/2008 7:28:19 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Quoted:
12 pages and nothing from Dave_A yet?

Anyways, if it would be a constitutional government, a real-world Galt's Gulch, I'd go.

If we all moved there and it didn't work out, think of all the electoral votes Montana would have though!

He is taking notes of screen names and IPs, I'm sure.

-Ben

+1. probably waiting to go rat everyone out.

Posted: 2/20/2008 7:34:25 AM EDT

[#43]

I've visited my family in Kalispell, MT, been all around Flathead Lake, and been through Glacier National Park.

I would LOVE an excuse to move to MT, as long as I can find a decent job and a place to fortify

Posted: 2/20/2008 7:34:35 AM EDT

[#44]

I say....Good for Montana! Enough of this BS from Washington. I think that the state of Montana has the right attitude in that states rights should supercede federal rights in these kind of issues.

After all, we are the United States of America, not the States united under the federal government of America!

Posted: 2/20/2008 7:59:03 AM EDT

[#45]

sounds like this place might get crowded. ive got 320 acres to start up a freedom fighter camp

Posted: 2/20/2008 8:04:20 AM EDT

[#46]

So whats a good college in MT to transfer to?

Posted: 2/20/2008 8:04:56 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Now that's a kick ass state.

Agreed, now if it weren't so cold in the winder.....

Posted: 2/20/2008 8:05:41 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Kalispell is a nice town near Glacier National Park.

Kalispell, MT

holy crap!!! it is only 16 degrees there today!!! i guess i will be free and cold

move for the freedom, stay for the warm weather.

Posted: 2/20/2008 8:12:29 AM EDT

[#49]

By myself I wouldn't have no boss,
But I'd be raisin' my lonely dental floss

Posted: 2/20/2008 8:15:52 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Now that's a kick ass state.

Hrmmm, I may have to move a few hundred miles North :)

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Montana may secede: DC vs. Heller (Page 7 of 13)

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