User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 7/10/2011 9:23:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I am not questioning the actions of the P-51 pilot as his life is far more valuable then the plane. But in the pictures I don't see any visible damage to the P-51. I wonder what controls he lost, or did he just freak out and bail! You have to look close. There's a big dent right behind the radiator exhaust under the tail. I'd put money on it that control cables were broke or bound up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 4:51:05 AM EDT
[#2]
That sucks.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 5:07:42 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: In before the naysayer's that want them all grounded in museums.  Why would anyone even say that? It's not like they're historically significant or irreplaceable? Heck, just the other day I crashed my Martin B10 and thought to myself, fuck, there has to be thousands of these things left, why worry? I'm kidding, of course, but you know attrition will continue to make all of these planes go away until someday they were a distant memory. They flew a lot of WWI planes, until one by one the flyable ones were all gone. Was that the right thing to do? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 5:11:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
That sucks. I used to think so, but not anymore. Nowadays I get as upset as someone crashing a Ferrari or whatever, which is none. I was pondering this very think the other night. When all the private flyers and all the spares disappear the only ones left will be the cold ones in the museums. The living memory will fade and be as distant as the Spanish-American conflict. Perhaps it's fitting. Face it: the existing ones are now just play toys for rich boys. They've turned into Fat Elvis. During an air show the same very well-worn litany is tossed-out for the umpteenth time, while most never bother to divert their attention from their Ipod or cell phone, |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 5:18:37 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
EAA Airventure Oshkosh WI in a few weeks. See them while you can. My dad had planned to retire sometime this summer. He chose 7/22 as his last day since he's always wanted to go to Oshkosh. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:05:52 AM EDT
[#6]
My understanding is/was Big Beautiful Doll was pretty much a parts bird with a data plate, part Aussie CA-18 and part Philippines (ex-USAAF) P-51D. It is sad to see her go down, but Mustangs (as far as warbirds go) are not rare (~150 still fly), and it is likely Big Beautiful Doll will be rebuilt into another flyable example. The P-51 has the most extensive knowledge and engineering support base of any of the warbirds (if one doesn't include the DC-3/C-47 or T-6/SNJ), and that will hold her future of flying again in good stead. The most important thing is the the pilot was able to bail out, the Skyraider was able to recover safely, and all will live to fly another day.
Another view of the collision:  |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:09:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: My understanding is/was Big Beautiful Doll was pretty much a parts bird with a data plate, part Aussie CA-18 and part Philippines (ex-USAAF) P-51D. It is sad to see her go down, but Mustangs (as far as warbirds go) are not rare (~150 still fly), and it is likely Big Beautiful Doll will be rebuilt into another flyable example. The P-51 has the most extensive knowledge and engineering support base of any of the warbirds (if one doesn't include the DC-3/C-47 or T-6/SNJ), and that will hold her future of flying again in good stead. The most important thing is the the pilot was able to bail out, the Skyraider was able to recover safely, and all will live to fly another day. Another view of the collision:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CinL4OUKLAgSigh. Loss of SA = planecrash. Flying is still dangerous if you let your guard down, even for a second. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:13:31 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
In before the naysayer's that want them all grounded in museums. Why would anyone even say that? It's not like they're historically significant or irreplaceable? Heck, just the other day I crashed my Martin B10 and thought to myself, fuck, there has to be thousands of these things left, why worry? I'm kidding, of course, but you know attrition will continue to make all of these planes go away until someday they were a distant memory. They flew a lot of WWI planes, until one by one the flyable ones were all gone. Was that the right thing to do? If you can find me an example of an airframe where there are none on static display in museums, but some still flying, then you will have a point saying "don't fly it". But I can't think of any aircraft being flown today that there are already not examples of sitting in museums. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:20:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Ok, since the mustang and warbirds are a limited resource, how difficult would it be to get the original blue prints and make a few more?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:24:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Ok, since the mustang and warbirds are a limited resource, how difficult would it be to get the original blue prints and make a few more? I'm sure it could be done...but my guess is the cost to build up all the tooling would be cost prohibitive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:36:58 AM EDT
[#11]
What is going to ground these birds is Insurance companies. That or you'll end up flying your one of a kind bird without insurance coverage.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:41:09 AM EDT
[#12]
I can only imagine what insurance on something like this costs now.
WOW |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:42:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
It isn't like there are a million of these things flying anymore. If you can't fly it without running into another flying museum piece then you shouldn't be flying it at all. In ten more years, we won't have ANY flying anymore because of crap like this. This is why we can't have nice things! The way things are going, in ten years there will be MORE P-51's flying than there are now. There are that many being restored and built from scratch. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:52:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Good to hear all involved made it out safely.
too bad about the planes though. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 7:59:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Real shame, I saw that P51 at a local airshow a few years ago, and it was a beautiful plane. Glad no one was hurt and hope they can salvage something from the remains.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 8:09:48 AM EDT
[#16]
From what I read on other sites where witnesses saw the accident it seemed to them that the back of the P51 was broken by the collision. In any event at that low level the pilot had little or no time to assess damage to see if he could save the plane. He took the prudent step.
They also talked about how that same plane was involved in near misses with other planes there. As these plane have really different flying characteristics they should not be doing much in the way aerobatics in the same flight space. These guys are not the Thunderbirds or Blue Angles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 8:11:14 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In before the naysayer's that want them all grounded in museums. Why would anyone even say that? It's not like they're historically significant or irreplaceable? Heck, just the other day I crashed my Martin B10 and thought to myself, fuck, there has to be thousands of these things left, why worry? I'm kidding, of course, but you know attrition will continue to make all of these planes go away until someday they were a distant memory. They flew a lot of WWI planes, until one by one the flyable ones were all gone. Was that the right thing to do? If you can find me an example of an airframe where there are none on static display in museums, but some still flying, then you will have a point saying "don't fly it". But I can't think of any aircraft being flown today that there are already not examples of sitting in museums. Your argument makes sense if you believe that it's ok to grind down historical planes with normal attrition because there's another example, somewhere, sitting in a museum. I see the loss of these planes as heartbreaking because so few are around, flyable or not. I think the same of guns. If you have a K98 high mount sniper with some historical pedigree, and sporterize it based on the fact that some still are around, I won't say what you're doing is awesome. It's your right to do it, but it makes me sad. I have seen many many historical planes fly in my days, and loved every second of it, but nothing will replace them when they're gone. I think at a certain point repros will merely take the place of the flyable piston engine WWII and beyond planes, because of the scarcity/value/cost...and I'm fine with that too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 8:13:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
 You think it might be running a little rich? Jane |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 8:17:53 AM EDT
[#19]
I have witnessed a number of mid air's. Based on the video the only thing the Mustang driver could do was bail. It is appearent that he immediatly loses control after impact. At that altitude you dont try and see if you can get the planed trimmed and level again, you leave with haste.
Glad both pilots are safe, I have seen too many people ride the airframe into the ground. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 8:37:05 AM EDT
[#20]
The way that Skyraider rolled over after the collision, I'm amazed the pilot could bring it back and land. It looked pretty low to be able to recover. I'm just glad nobody died.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 8:38:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: You think it might be running a little rich? Jane Nah, no more than any other Skyraider. Here's a photo of a VA-176 Skyraider from during the Vietnam War, ironically from the same squadron and in the same livery the Skyraider involved in the collision at Duxford was wearing.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 8:39:26 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
You think it might be running a little rich? Jane Just a radial engine being a radial engine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 9:08:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In before the naysayer's that want them all grounded in museums. Why would anyone even say that? It's not like they're historically significant or irreplaceable? Heck, just the other day I crashed my Martin B10 and thought to myself, fuck, there has to be thousands of these things left, why worry? I'm kidding, of course, but you know attrition will continue to make all of these planes go away until someday they were a distant memory. They flew a lot of WWI planes, until one by one the flyable ones were all gone. Was that the right thing to do? If you can find me an example of an airframe where there are none on static display in museums, but some still flying, then you will have a point saying "don't fly it". But I can't think of any aircraft being flown today that there are already not examples of sitting in museums. Your argument makes sense if you believe that it's ok to grind down historical planes with normal attrition because there's another example, somewhere, sitting in a museum. I see the loss of these planes as heartbreaking because so few are around, flyable or not. I think the same of guns. If you have a K98 high mount sniper with some historical pedigree, and sporterize it based on the fact that some still are around, I won't say what you're doing is awesome. It's your right to do it, but it makes me sad. I have seen many many historical planes fly in my days, and loved every second of it, but nothing will replace them when they're gone. I think at a certain point repros will merely take the place of the flyable piston engine WWII and beyond planes, because of the scarcity/value/cost...and I'm fine with that too. You are not looking at the unintended consequences of your idea. If the ability to fly them was gone, so would 99% of the motivation to restore and rebuild them from hulks. Liekwise, we have more static displays because tehse efforts saved some that were not flyable in the end. We have the huge number of surviving warbirds we do today due to the ability to fly them being a huge motivating factor in the preservation. The loss of that plane was tragic, yes. But it existed only because someone was motivated enough to bring her back to good condition and fly her, If you had your way, she would have been melted down into beer cans and cheap tools decades ago, because it wouldn't be worth the money and effort to save her as a static display. And that end would have been much more tragic than seeing her carry one where millions more could enjoy here for 30-40-50 more years and finally lost that way. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 9:21:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
The Skyraider was one tough airplane. 
Sorry at the loss of Big Beautiful Doll.
Glad no one was seriously hurt. the skyraider is the only prop powered plane to have not 1 but 2 confirmed ariel victories over jet MIGS. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 9:29:01 AM EDT
[#25]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 9:30:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: More here:   Huh. Looks like they got Black 6, the white/tan ME-109, flying again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 9:34:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: In before the naysayer's that want them all grounded in museums. Why would anyone even say that? It's not like they're historically significant or irreplaceable? Heck, just the other day I crashed my Martin B10 and thought to myself, fuck, there has to be thousands of these things left, why worry? I'm kidding, of course, but you know attrition will continue to make all of these planes go away until someday they were a distant memory. They flew a lot of WWI planes, until one by one the flyable ones were all gone. Was that the right thing to do? If you can find me an example of an airframe where there are none on static display in museums, but some still flying, then you will have a point saying "don't fly it". But I can't think of any aircraft being flown today that there are already not examples of sitting in museums. Your argument makes sense if you believe that it's ok to grind down historical planes with normal attrition because there's another example, somewhere, sitting in a museum. I see the loss of these planes as heartbreaking because so few are around, flyable or not. I think the same of guns. If you have a K98 high mount sniper with some historical pedigree, and sporterize it based on the fact that some still are around, I won't say what you're doing is awesome. It's your right to do it, but it makes me sad. I have seen many many historical planes fly in my days, and loved every second of it, but nothing will replace them when they're gone. I think at a certain point repros will merely take the place of the flyable piston engine WWII and beyond planes, because of the scarcity/value/cost...and I'm fine with that too. You are not looking at the unintended consequences of your idea. If the ability to fly them was gone, so would 99% of the motivation to restore and rebuild them from hulks. Liekwise, we have more static displays because tehse efforts saved some that were not flyable in the end. We have the huge number of surviving warbirds we do today due to the ability to fly them being a huge motivating factor in the preservation. The loss of that plane was tragic, yes. But it existed only because someone was motivated enough to bring her back to good condition and fly her, If you had your way, she would have been melted down into beer cans and cheap tools decades ago, because it wouldn't be worth the money and effort to save her as a static display. And that end would have been much more tragic than seeing her carry one where millions more could enjoy here for 30-40-50 more years and finally lost that way. What way is that? I haven't suggested planes be grounded, just that it's sad to see them flown until there are no more original planes left...and that WILL happen. And, like I said, repros fill will fill some of that void as the cost to restore or even to find some of these planes becomes too prohibitive. Till then, I hope people can still enjoy them and see them in action...but I still cringe when I hear of a vintage plane lost to something like this. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 9:54:31 AM EDT
[#28]
Here's a link describing the history of "Big Beautiful Doll."
http://www.crazyhorseap.be/Mustangs/Mustangs/G-HAECBigBeautifulDoll/G-HAEC.htm Crazy Horse Aviation Photography - "Big Beautiful Doll" - D-FBBD (ex- G-HAEC) Besides being well-known on the European/UK warbird circuit, she was also a bit of a "movie star." Its first movie appearance was in 1987, when the aircraft was repainted as "592/Missy Wong from Hong Kong” in Steven Spielberg's "Empire of the Sun”, along with two other P-51s. Later, in 1989, it made another movie appearance in the movie "Memphis Belle”, where it flew under the name "Ding Hao” (AJ-A), along with 6 other Mustangs. Filming was mainly done at Binbrook and Duxford. Later, if briefly acquired the paint scheme of RAAF A-68-192 again. G-HAEC would remain based at Duxford operated by the OFMC and the Historic Aircraft Collection, until it was sold to Rob Davies of Woodchurch Warbirds, Kent, in March of 1997. It would briefly return to the big screen in 1998 in Steven Spielberg's "Saving Private Ryan”, along with P-51D N167F. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 10:14:02 AM EDT
[#29]
Better video here. High quality, zoomed in. Shows everything including post-collision and the eject.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 10:17:52 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Quoted:
You think it might be running a little rich? Jane Just a radial engine being a radial engine. I've seen a fair number of radial engined aircraft and not many of them were showing that kind of exhaust staining. I don't know anything about Skyraiders specifically though, maybe they're just nasty by nature.  Is that rich mixture or oil blow-by?
Jane |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 10:26:34 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Better video here. High quality, zoomed in. Shows everything including post-collision and the eject. That's a much better video than the others. You can see that the pilot likely had time to attempt to pull the nose up and when he couldn't he bailed. Good call on his part, he had maybe 2-3 seconds more before he rode it in! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 10:31:01 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Better video here. High quality, zoomed in. Shows everything including post-collision and the eject. That's a much better video than the others. You can see that the pilot likely had time to attempt to pull the nose up and when he couldn't he bailed. Good call on his part, he had maybe 2-3 seconds more before he rode it in! This is what I see, now tell me if I am wrong... The planes collide and the P51 is shoved into somewhat of a dive rolling left, it then pulls up and levels itself out so there has to be some control. As soon as the P51 level the pilot pops the top of the canopy off @ 35 seconds. So my questions is, would you pop the canopy off before or after you make the final decision to bail? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 10:34:41 AM EDT
[#33]
I use to work for AirMotive Specialties, while it is true Mustangs are rare, in the warbirds circle, they are in fact the most common bird.
BBD I am confident will fly again. I know that there are quite a few airframes without data plates around. I watched two such airframes built from damn near unrecognizable hulks into flying works of art. Another mustang I am aware of has been completly restored into flyable condition, but has no data plate so is "waiting: a data plate. Aircraft are odd in that the plate is the plane, not the plane itself. Dave Teeters at AirMotive , and dad at CalPacific Airmotive are simply wizzards at restoration and fabrication. At some point they have done something to most of the flying mustangs in the world. They can make a wing from scratch and fabricate ANY of the aluminum parts. Other parts are rare but not impossible to find. The guys from Vintage v-12's can take a rusty block of a merlin and have it humming in no time. It is truely amazing to behold. What it boils down too is VERY rich folks wanting some very expensive toys. Some are flying through foundations. but many are simply owned and operated by individuals. everyone surviving is main thing, the planes can be rebuilt. Id bet their were offers on the wreck before the fire was out. There are several mustangs flying now that were involved in fatal crashes. EDIT TO ADD: Many of these planes ARE NOT flown by the owners (this is the reason the the TF conversion is getting common< a second seat and controls) One plane in particuliar was converted just so the owner could go for rides). So with that said, there may not be the motivation to try every last thing before bailing, I am not saying this is what happend here, but it is a factor. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 10:39:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Better video here. High quality, zoomed in. Shows everything including post-collision and the eject. That's a much better video than the others. You can see that the pilot likely had time to attempt to pull the nose up and when he couldn't he bailed. Good call on his part, he had maybe 2-3 seconds more before he rode it in! This is what I see, now tell me if I am wrong... The planes collide and the P51 is shoved into somewhat of a dive rolling left, it then pulls up and levels itself out so there has to be some control. As soon as the P51 level the pilot pops the top of the canopy off @ 35 seconds. So my questions is, would you pop the canopy off before or after you make the final decision to bail? based on zero experience is it possile for the p51 to correct itself like that? once back level it makes zero changes in flight path until it nosedives and the pilot bails shortly after what caused that? he got it away from the air field and killed the engine? looked like the other pilot hung with his aircraft when I would be looking for a exit lol same thing? tried getting it away from the airfield and then discovered it was still capable of flight? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 11:12:40 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Skyraider was one tough airplane.
Sorry at the loss of Big Beautiful Doll.
Glad no one was seriously hurt. the skyraider is the only prop powered plane to have not 1 but 2 confirmed ariel victories over jet MIGS. On 8 August 1952, FAA pilot Lieutenant Peter "Hoagy" Carmichael RN downed a MiG-15 jet fighter in air-to-air combat, making the Sea Fury one of the few prop-driven fighter aircraft to shoot down a jet-powered fighter. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 11:15:50 AM EDT
[#36]
When I was a kid I saw a burning Skyraider overhead. The pilot rode it in to keep it out of the houses. The only damage on the ground was a TV antenna knocked off a rooftop by the plane as it crash landed hard nearby. By the time I got to the crash site the only things left were the engine, tail, and wingtips. The ambulance carrying the fried pilot was leaving as I got there.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 11:21:47 AM EDT
[#37]
If they find the data plate from that P-51, the rest of the plane can be rebuilt.
Really. For the right price, everything in a P-51 can be replicated or found on the warbird parts market. Time, money, and inclination is the formula to apply. I have not yet seen photos of the plane after it hit the ground. Anyone got those or a link? CJ |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 12:14:55 PM EDT
[#38]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 12:30:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Better video here. High quality, zoomed in. Shows everything including post-collision and the eject. Fail. Eject? P-51 Mustang?  
Video removed by owner. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 1:01:47 PM EDT
[#40]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 3:34:08 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Better video here. High quality, zoomed in. Shows everything including post-collision and the eject. Video is gone now. Anybody got a new link? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 3:38:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted:
The B-17 Liberty Belle a few weeks ago, because the f-ing fire department didn't want to take a chance of getting their fire truck all muddy and possibly get it stuck in a field, and now this.... It's a bad month for warbirds.
So you're still taking the association's word on what happened instead of what actually occurred I see. Facts be damned! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 3:40:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
I use to work for AirMotive Specialties, while it is true Mustangs are rare, in the warbirds circle, they are in fact the most common bird. BBD I am confident will fly again. I know that there are quite a few airframes without data plates around. I watched two such airframes built from damn near unrecognizable hulks into flying works of art. Another mustang I am aware of has been completly restored into flyable condition, but has no data plate so is "waiting: a data plate. Aircraft are odd in that the plate is the plane, not the plane itself. The company I worked at had complete North American blueprints for the P-51A-D models, I managed to do some of the work on the Tuskegee P-51 after Don Hinz was killed in it. AS has been said very little of the aircraft is original, control surface hinges landing gear boxes and the Merlin itself are about all that is original P-51 parts. The two data plates I remember are.... one on the dash panel, and one on the air frame, IIRC usually on the tail behind the elevator. That aircraft may very well be rebuilt......... Data plate only. The amount of work involved in a rebuild/fab is immense. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 3:44:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Damn, damn, damn!
And another thing. These cameramen seriously suck ass. Ok, two warbirds just collided. You can A) Get some amazing footage(whether good or bad) B) Put your superman suit on and go save both the pilots and planes....oh wait, no you can't. You can't do anything to make the situation better so just keep the fucking camera on the goddamn action! |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 3:54:29 PM EDT
[#45]
WOW! that spad pilot came close to being part of a smoking hole in the ground himself!
Decent video here of the complete sequence. Horse power fulled that Skyraider out of its death dive. ETA: that P-51 pilot almost did ride it in! Raw BBC footage here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 3:58:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
That sucks. I used to think so, but not anymore. Nowadays I get as upset as someone crashing a Ferrari or whatever, which is none. I was pondering this very think the other night. When all the private flyers and all the spares disappear the only ones left will be the cold ones in the museums. The living memory will fade and be as distant as the Spanish-American conflict. Perhaps it's fitting. Face it: the existing ones are now just play toys for rich boys. They've turned into Fat Elvis. During an air show the same very well-worn litany is tossed-out for the umpteenth time, while most never bother to divert their attention from their Ipod or cell phone, You do know that scratch-built replicas of FE-190A, ME-262, and P-51A have flown in the last 5 years, right? |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 4:03:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Ok, since the mustang and warbirds are a limited resource, how difficult would it be to get the original blue prints and make a few more? Already been done with P-51A, ME-262, FW-190A - plus you can get a carbon fiber 100% scale P-51D/H hybrid. Once you get to a twin or 4-motor, it gets a lot more complicated real fast - but one could argue that "Glacier Girl" is substantially a replica. |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 4:08:37 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted:
You think it might be running a little rich? Jane This is normal oil staining for a big round engine. If it ain't leaking and staining, you are out of oil. At least one flight engineer on B-36s said they never changed the oil on the recips - it leaked and burned out so fast that what was in it never needed it before the engine had to be removed - just keep topping it up Look at the oil streaks on the horizontal stabilizer....  .
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 4:12:34 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Skyraider was one tough airplane.
Sorry at the loss of Big Beautiful Doll.
Glad no one was seriously hurt. the skyraider is the only prop powered plane to have not 1 but 2 confirmed ariel victories over jet MIGS. On 8 August 1952, FAA pilot Lieutenant Peter "Hoagy" Carmichael RN downed a MiG-15 jet fighter in air-to-air combat, making the Sea Fury one of the few prop-driven fighter aircraft to shoot down a jet-powered fighter. More than one ME-262 got shredded on final approach by a P-51...... |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/11/2011 4:19:10 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Skyraider was one tough airplane.
Sorry at the loss of Big Beautiful Doll.
Glad no one was seriously hurt. the skyraider is the only prop powered plane to have not 1 but 2 confirmed ariel victories over jet MIGS. On 8 August 1952, FAA pilot Lieutenant Peter "Hoagy" Carmichael RN downed a MiG-15 jet fighter in air-to-air combat, making the Sea Fury one of the few prop-driven fighter aircraft to shoot down a jet-powered fighter. More than one ME-262 got shredded on final approach by a P-51...... Yep. The '51 drivers used to set up patrol orbits near the 262 bases and just wait for them. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
