Quoted:
I wasn't there.  I dare say, neither was anybody on this thread.  The truth is probably out there.  I, for one, have no right to pass judgement either way.  

Given the GD track record, neither do most here.

Quoted:










And this. An active duty SEAL told me that the big difference between the white and black SEALs are that there are no "new guys" in DEVGRU. He said he couldn't explain how huge of a difference it makes. The experience is a deal breaker. He said that when most "white"  SEAL Teams/platoons deploy, they are 35-50% "new guys". That is huge.

Quoted:



I remember killing and capturing all of Ahmad Shah's friends. Luttrell was full of shit from the get go...and anyone who contradicted the hero worship was shot down and insulted immediately.

Quoted:

When you compound that with the fact that none of those new guys have any kind of dismounted light infantry backgrounds, you can see how the organization suffers at all levels.

There is no field or operational discipline bred into the sailor from Day 1 as you would have in a basic Infantry Unit in the Army or Marines.

Noise discipline?

Logical patrolling techniques?

Planning?

Reconnaissance?

Control and accountability of personnel?

Combat leader experience?  The other major segment of that SEAL Platoon is guys who have done at least one or two Platoon work-ups, a deployment that usually doesn't involve contact, and have gone from cocky youngster with no experience, to even cockier 21-25yr-old with limited experience that reinforces really bad TTPs in many ways.

That's how a junior officer can get away with a colossal abortion criteria plan like Murphy's was, and nobody says, "Sir.  You want to insert within earshot of the objective, with only 4 guys?"

Instead, they say, "Hoo yah!" and start to suit up.

Quoted:


And this. An active duty SEAL told me that the big difference between the white and black SEALs are that there are no "new guys" in DEVGRU. He said he couldn't explain how huge of a difference it makes. The experience is a deal breaker. He said that when most "white"  SEAL Teams/platoons deploy, they are 35-50% "new guys". That is huge.

Quoted:


And this. An active duty SEAL told me that the big difference between the white and black SEALs are that there are no "new guys" in DEVGRU. He said he couldn't explain how huge of a difference it makes. The experience is a deal breaker. He said that when most "white"  SEAL Teams/platoons deploy, they are 35-50% "new guys". That is huge.

Quoted:

  I'm not a SEAL and I have never pretended to be one, I do know a couple of guys who are still with DEVGRU.


So with that said, I've never heard of "White" Teams, "Green" has always been the training Team for DEVGRU

Quoted:

But if you're a SEAL, it's National news and a hometown hero's welcome/celebration event where more people than the town population want to get in on the event.

"I knew that guy.  He used to mow my lawn when he was 12.  What a great kid. I always knew he was destined for greatness, and I even helped share some of life's wisdom with him...blah blah blah...."

I know a few guys on the Teams who would be perfectly happy with staying under the radar, but as an organization, other SOF units would chuckle when SEALs mention being "quiet professionals".

The sheer volume of books and movies tells a different story that simply can't be ignored.

I would be happy with all of it going dark.  The best way the military could deal with this is to:

A.  Raise standards in existing Infantry and Combat Arms units and highlight what those units do.  You can run glossy ads and HD video of those jobs that would sell the military to potential recruits as it is.

B. Create Ranger/Raider/MEUSOC sub units within each Infantry Battalion.  New soldier shows up to his unit, goes straight to one of the entry-level/training companies, and jumps into the training cycle.  After being in the unit for a year, he has the opportunity to try out for Ranger or Raider Company if he so desires.  These units would maintain higher standards across the board expected of a soldier who has been in a while.  300 APFT, Expert Weapons Qual in a multi-tabled range sessions, EIB mandatory, Ranger school attendance/graduation by E-4, additional MOS/ASI training in Commo, Engineer/Breech, Combat Medicine, Intel/Recce, vehicles, etc.

C. Shut the lights off on SOCOM and make mention of it punishable by UCMJ outside of internal recruiting.  Recruit only from the Ranger Companies and specific units needed for the pool.  No books, movies, reporter interviews, nothing.  Go completely dark, and highlight the Ranger Companies at the combat brigade unit-level in controlled media presentations.

D. Once an experienced NCO does his time in Ranger/Raider companies, including multiple deployments, he moves on to SF or other selection, or cycles back to one of the regular companies, Fort Benning, PRC, and other relevant instructor time to maintain a quality leadership climate for the incoming soldiers and officers to learn from.  This duty should be given a lot of prestige like the USMC bestows on instructors, unlike the Army.  The Army's treatment of instructor duty simply baffles me, and needs to be overhauled.

The Marines can run all the ads about how high speed it is to be in Raider Company after doing your time in the already prestigious Infantry line companies.

The Army can run the same ads for Ranger Companies in the different combat Brigades as they evolve from the 25th, 1001st, 10th Mtn, and 82nd.

There is plenty of material then to show guys roping and jumping from birds, breeching doors with demo, clearing rooms, patrolling the woods, sniping, small boat operations, and all the adventure a kid could hope for.  There is no reason to show anything from SOCOM.

This would raise the standards for the military as a whole, and weed out a lot of garbage that has been allowed to fester in the leadership climate as well.  Go completely dark with SOCOM. Regiment can then offer RASP to guys once they have actually graduated the new Combat Parachute Assault Course as 11B1Ps, which replaces the abortion known as Army Airborne School, which has exactly zero combat focus.  Look at how the Brits run their parachute training, and you'll see what I mean.  The vast majority of people who the Army sends through Airborne school have absolutely no business going near it, and thus, the training opportunities there have been eliminated so that non-performers can make it through, and actual paratroopers get cheated out of what could be combat-relevant training, to include planning, assembly, graded patrolling, combat trauma management, IPB, recognition, and other things.

The Army wastes Option 40 contracts on guys who have no chance of getting into Battalion, and this is done at the recruiting level when they are civilians.  Regiment should be allowed to secretly recruit after the numbers have been proven through the new OSUT/AIT and Combat Parachute training pipeline.

Same thing for MARSOC.  They can go completely dark, and recruit from the Infantry Battalions, STA Platoons, Recon Battalion, and other units for support pax.

SF can secretly recruit as well from the pools of people they want.  Certain units you have never heard of have managed to do this for decades.

Quoted:


It is not really apples to apples to compare the SBS with the SEALS.

The entire SBS is smaller than a single SEAL team.

Not a SEAL fan boy but to compare the actual real world missions of the SBS to the SEALSs is a bit silly. SBS is like well under 300 dudes total. Not exactly a serious tool of Foreign Policy.

I do think the SEALs are over all a good recruitment tool for the Navy in general and know that the movie "Act of Valor" had a very significant and positive effect on SEAL recruitment.

Some of the Squeel hate is a bit over the top. Squeels have been better at the PR game than some other equivalent units but in this day and age of intense competition for Mil budgets you have to bring your A game.

As other have mentioned Red Wings is not exactly a bragging OP for most is NSW.

Quoted:
What Maritime units would the Squeels recruit from?

SEAL recruitment was below objectives until the "Act of Valor" movie. That movie had a major positive impact to recruitment.

If you knew the back story of how a "for profit" movie received multi multi millions of dollars of official Navy support you would smile or puke depending on your sense of humor and how you viewed "the ends justify the means" but rest assured the Navy brass ain't gonna allow it to happen again, regardless of the positive results.

The Bandito Brothers made some serious bank and the SEALs/ Navy scored a great recruiting tool. Win Win???

Quoted:
When you see the Russians and combat tourists mimicking our guys' equipment, clothing, and weapons almost to a T, you know there is far too much exposure.

The only people that need exposure are a few combatant commanders, second-term soldiers being solicited for recruitment who heard things by word of mouth, and not many else.

Russian Gruppa ALFA
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e15/928360_379393158903445_91895878_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=ODcwNDcyMTE5NjgzODA4MjQw.2

Quoted:






If this were true, LRRP wouldn't have had to explain it to you above.

Quoted:
This thread prompted (reminded) me to also buy your book. Amazon says it should be here tomorrow. Looking forward to a good read. Thanks for your service!

Quoted:



  What if SEAL teams had been created under the Marine Corps. This way, both branches who specialize in infantry combat arms would've been building SOF organically with volunteers who had been raised in an infantry household. Navy keeps UDT and EOD, which they're obviously quite good at, although every branch has their own EOD units. I reckon the main thing keeping the USMC from having ventured down this path in the late '50s and early '60s was the mindset of "No Marine is more special than the other."





I dunno, just pontificating on a Wednesday afternoon.

Quoted:




  There's no need to thank me for anything; I'm just a writer/researcher/historian. I've never served, regrettably. But thank YOU for supporting me in my endeavor as a novelist.

Quoted:

  I'm not a SEAL and I have never pretended to be one, I do know a couple of guys who are still with DEVGRU.

So with that said, I've never heard of "White" Teams, "Green" has always been the training Team for DEVGRU

Quoted:

Some people like to refer to the SOCOM units as white-side, and JSOC as darker.

It's not really a distinction that can be made that has any relevance for civilians looking in, and there are units all over the map.

The color names you're referring to with "Green" is something else.

Quoted:



I remember killing and capturing all of Ahmad Shah's friends. Luttrell was full of shit from the get go...and anyone who contradicted the hero worship was shot down and insulted immediately.

Quoted:



Just in case it was glossed over somehow.

Quoted:
Lee was great in Virginia where he had perfect intel on his enemy and knew the terrain.

Lee sucked once he left Virginia.

If I have perfect intel and my enemy is blind, I would be a god, too.

But what happened once he hit PA?  He started bitching about his cavalry tear assing around causing havoc instead of scouting.

Just like they always did.  But in PA he NEEDED the scouting because he was blind.  So he walked into the prepared defenses of the union and lost the war in an afternoon.

Quoted:


C'mon man, thats just mean.
Dont make me bring up Stonewall.
Sorry, having fun..no thread derail.


Lee was great.

Quoted:  You can't lose and be great.

Them the rules.

Quoted:


So Giap was great?

Quoted:

  The 11 loaded magazines he had makes you go WTF

Quoted:  You can't lose and be great.

Them the rules.

Quoted:
When you see the Russians and combat tourists mimicking our guys' equipment, clothing, and weapons almost to a T, you know there is far too much exposure.

The only people that need exposure are a few combatant commanders, second-term soldiers being solicited for recruitment who heard things by word of mouth, and not many else.

Russian Gruppa ALFA
https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/e15/928360_379393158903445_91895878_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=ODcwNDcyMTE5NjgzODA4MjQw.2

Quoted:


I blame video games.