Because its not simply you reporting this incident...it's you inserting your commentary on it as if your opinion is relevant.

True, but it was the only example I could think of where someone wanting to disobey a police officer was met with deadly force when it escalated.

Someone else mentioned a guy getting tasered for disobeying an officer.

Mine was a poor example.  Sorry.

So you would propose risking people's lives to resuce an empty car?

If you want to conduct a rescue a key component is having a victim.

This is General DISCUSSION forum.

Not the Dragnet forum.  (just the facts ma'am)

Where do you draw the line on probability of there being a victim?

A car just plunged into the water.  Pretty high probability there is a victim.

Lol...look at the title.  Seems to me that's a pretty clear statement of your version of the facts.  I have no problem with "discussions"...this wasn't a discussion from the start.

In any event it's impossible to decide which option was best, without being there myself.   That's why these threads are dumb and typically equate to trolling.

Or assuming the police are responsible for rescues.

In most of the country FD = rescues PD= law enforcement.

The FD did put a boat out.

Yes, base your argument on assuming that the officer only saw that vehicle without a plate, and assumes he ignored the rest of the vehicle.

It would be nice if we could elect to decline police services and save a few hundred dollars on our yearly tax roles. They are pretty much worthless for anything I need....

Until you NEED them.  Then it's cry and complain they weren't there...

Really, cars never "roll" either intentionally or accidentally with no occupants?

No one ever jumps out of a vehicle before it hits the water?

No one ever exits a vehicle that ends up in the water, before it sinks?

Before you risk rescuers lives, you need to be pretty darn sure there is someone in need of rescue.

The higher the probabality of injury or death to any potential rescuers, the more sure you need to be that there is a victim in need of rescue.

this. this isn't your lazy sunday dip in the stream.

Departments have policies about prioritizing calls for service.
A call about an active burglary with an armed suspect will result in a high priority rating and more rapid response

Not seeing what the boat patrol enforcing navigation laws has with your desire to carry a gun anywhere you desire.

I've never heard of an officer threatening such a thing....but I don't live near a body of water that large.  If true I don't necessarily agree with the threat itself but I can understand that he was freaking out and possibly trying to keep others from drowning along with the motorist.  Regardless, bronk's idea wouldn't fly even if it were allowed.  You and I both can see the ridiculousness in that statement.  It's what I hear when I'm on scene and someone doesn't want me there.  Conversely, I never hear it when I'm helping someone.

http://www.theglobaldispatch.com/leah-manche-illinois-woman-dies-as-car-discovered-in-mississippi-river-73954/

Different source, different information.

Skid marks at scene.  Which might indicate someone was in the vehicle.

Although being dark, skid marks might not have been evident at the time.

Yeah, OK.  

Every cop bash thread is deserved.  They used to be here to protect and serve. Not anymore.  Now they are "law enforcement".  I would NEVER voluntarily call the cops for anything.  They come to the scene and harass everyone , don't like being held accountable (video recorded), and end up arresting the innocent.

And I'm not some low life who's been arrested 37 times.  I've got a clean record.  I've seen what cops are capable of, and even the ones who don't actively engage in thuggery are guilty because they know the cops that do and allow it to happen.

Let me tell you something, champ, I (and a lot of others) are more afraid of cops than criminals.  I can protect myself from a criminal.  I can't protect myself from a roided up, ignorant cop who want to make up charges when he wants to show off his power.

And I also know cops.  They all cheat on their wives, treat suspects like shit and laugh about it, and basically act like the gang they are.  

We need cop reform in this country, that's for sure.  

And before you call me some name and say I'm just mouthing off, I'm not.  I'm serious, and this is how we should start:

1.  Anyone who wants to be a cop is automatically denied.  That's the first red flag.  Every cop I know joined so they could speed and break other laws, not to help people.
2.  Random lottery that picks people when they turn 18.
3.  If they accept then there would be extensive background checks.  Bully in high school?  Good bye.  Bullied, in High school?  Good Bye.  Have "short man syndrome".  Good bye.  Et cetera.
4.  Require cops to carry their own insurance.  If the fark up the tax payers shouldn't have to pay for it.  If the cop farks up enough he insurance get's dropped and he can't be a cop.  If there are as many good cops out there as the cops would have us believe then insurance companies would jump at the idea because they'd make a fortune in premiums and almost never have to pay out.
5.  Mandatory rotation between jobs every so often so they don't have to deal with the same scum bags every day.  I know that has an effect.

There are more, but I have to do.  But I'll add that any cop who tries to use the "our job is tough" bullsht lie automatically gets fired.  You CHOOSE that job, you can leave it.  That's the stupidest excuse I've ever heard.

That river scares the shit out of me.  

See what happens when you call a hippie.

My point in posting this thread was to serve as a reminder that police are not obligated to protect individuals.
This just happends to be the first case I've seen.

My local talk radio host was crucifying the local police departments over this.

I kept screaming at my radio that the Supreme Court made it clear that the police don't have to put themselves in harms way for us.

At the same time, most people on the street are convinced that in this situation, the officer at the scene should have jumped in the water.

I don't have a problem with the officer knowing his limits and not risking himself.  
I do have a problem with a "rescue boat" not serving it's advertised purpose.
And I have a problem with the officer stopping someone else from helping.

I wasn't there, so I'm being an armchair quarterback.  Maybe the certified master diver didn't tell the cop he was trained and equipped.
Maybe he did, but the cop didn't believe him.  

But like I said, most people believe the police will rescue them.

Oh, wait.  You were serious, weren't you?  That's sad.  Sorry to hear about your childish insecurities.  

I've swam in it.  I've walked part way across it when it was froze over.  Classmates have driven across it in the winter in their car.  (one guy lost his car)

But yes, it scares me too.  But it is very low and slow right now.

Scooping a floater up is completely different than swift water rescue with entrapment.  A lot of people don't recognize that.

I know what their capable of as well, a friend took a round and just about bled out SATURDAY.  He was in pursuit of a suspect that had just committed a triple homicide, so as far as I'm concerned you're opinions are like assholes, and you are...errr and everybody has one.  You are wrong on many (if not all) of your points.

When you were a guest of the state were you minimum, medium, or maximum security?

Yeah, not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. :(




Yeah, gee why else would a car not have a license plate?



Yeah. I'm not saying it was 100% a bad call on LEOs part. Just that it's disturbing ~ that mentality.



Well, not "the police" so much as _A_ police officer. Granted might have checked w/ another via radio, but looks like one dude.



Well, seeing that THIS incident was determined to be a "self-rescue" situation. YEAH, looks like we are all mostly on our own. IF I am on my own, I'd rather have a firearm handy IN CASE it is needed. YMMV.



Well... LAST _I_ knew all LEOs are equipped with this amazing 'new' device called a FLASHLIGHT. He was not bright enough to USE that tool and SEE skid marks to re-evaluate his initial ASSumption???


ETA: not bashing Police Officers in general, just this one and any like him who take the 'safe lazy way' out. It SEEMS to be becoming more prevalent, but maybe just being called to our attn more... dunno.

Understood.  You should make your feelings clear in the first post.

Sounds to me like you have it all figured out. That's a hell of a broad brush you're painting with.

It took the car what, 4-5  minutes to sink?
How long did it take the "rescue boat" to get on station?

Is the "rescue boat" intended for surface rescue or for diving?



No, its not "deserved", and you have so many inaccuracies in the rest of the post its ridiculous.
I don't know a single officer who joined so they could "speed"

That would suck HARD

He's finger painting with his own poop.

I used to kayak a lot, was a kayak instructor.  Can not recall if I ever got swift water rescue certified or not - but had more than a few hours of classroom and river time on it.  For a while, there was an ongoing move to get a whole bunch of us trained to be used by the police/fire department.  They just did not have the swift-water experience that we did - hell we would play in the stuff 500 hrs a year.  Most of our best white water was playing in the same flash floods that were causing most of the deaths.



Instead they wrote laws to prevent us from padding when the water moved.



Anyway, not uncommon for us to be on the same water that accidents tended to happen.  One case that stands in my mind actually involved a person in a "kayak".  Not a paddler by a long shot, but an idiot in an inflatable kayak, in rather large water for us (not any more dangerous, but defiantly very rare flow rates.  He was trapped in a wave (very alien concept for us - we fight to stay in the wave, but then again we are playing in it, carving it, throwing tricks in it - doing tons of stuff that get us caught by the current and spit out prematurely).  A swift water rescue instructor (a avid canoe/kayer) was one of the first responders.  He was kind of laughing at the situation - do you want me to go out there and get him?  The water was such he could have paddle risk free within about 4ft of the victim and tossed him a rescue line.  Probably could have pulled him of the wave, but moreover, if he would have just fallen out of his boat he would have been at sure in 5 seconds.



Anyway, NO was the answer.  Police/fire department totaled 2 jet ski's trying the rescue.  Then used a helicopter to pull the man out.  Unfortunately something failed with the teather the helicopter used and the man fell - killing him.

---

I don't know about diving in current.  But will say that people experienced with it (diving in that river) have a much better perspective of what is safe for them than me or probably the loe.

Um, sorry, more bullsht.  You voluntarily sign up for the job.  If you lose someone, it was their choice and the knew that losing their life was a possible outcome.  Posts like this are just as disgusting as cops saying "we have a hard job" while trying to cover up their shortcomings and mistakes.

If you're not willing to save someone, find another job.  Period.

No, it's not.  They aren't gods.  They would like you to think that.  And they might make something up like disturbing the peace which really means contempt of cop, and it'll probably get dropped later, but they'll do it.  

It's why I always (as everyone should), record every encounter with the police.   I also have it set up so the video uploads every couple of seconds so they can't delete it like they always try to do.  You should see how fast cops go from dick head, power abusing, short penis pricks to your best friend once they find out they can't delete the video you took of them breaking the law or making up false charges.

Regardless of what you personally think, we do not take this job to take needless risk.
There are risks involved with doing this job, but being reckless and placing ourselves in harms way needlessly is not part of this job, no matter what you personally think.

You really do have it all figured out.  You're welcome to come and do this job....oh wait, you sound like someone who was rejected.  It all makes sense now.  Carry on.

You spew your trash from the safety of a keyboard.  At the same time I seriously doubt that you'd of had the ballls to jump in the river anyway.

lol, yeah, ok, it's not like there are tons of websites that report cop crime, and court records that prove it if you don't believe them.  People like you can try and character assassinate people like me all you want, but as more and more honest people get screwed by cops they wake up.  I used to trust the police.  I know better now.

Public trust in the police is dwindling rapidly, whether you like it or not.  Name calling won't change that.

Anecdotal evidence.  Look it up.    Your story doesn't change anything I said, and for every story you tell me like yours I can tell you ten where cops ruined someones life by falsifying charges, killing unarmed, handcuffed suspects, drug trafficking, et cetera.  

So, in essence, appeal to emotion denied.

Bullshit.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1654/honesty-ethics-professions.aspx

Give me the equipment and the training.