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Link Posted: 7/23/2014 9:57:50 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
It's not totally dry, but it seems to be dry enough.
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It is not.


Had you kiln dried it, ok.  Had it spent 50 days in a solar kiln, maybe.  Stacked and stickered in your driveway for less than 2 months? Not unless you live in death valley during an unseasonably hot summer.

Learn to fix splits and cracks. Big ones.  You're going to need those skill probably about November, certainly by February.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 9:59:45 AM EDT
[#2]
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You know what's worse?  The guy at the lumber yard that doesn't know the meaning of "quarter sawn".  But there's worse than that, the miller that doesn't give a crap.

But if you're selling dimensional lumber, I reckon the worst from that perspective is the customer that wants every board to be quarter sawn, no matter the project he's building.

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Harry homeowners who want one or two boards buy surfaced wood. They're generally tire kickers and take up 30 minutes with questions and concerns. Then they want help tying it to the top of their minivan or camry.  They may also be back because you sold them a board that warped on their garage floor over the last 8 weeks and now they want a new board.

Guys who buy rough cut 4/4 or 6/4 generally show up with cash in hand and a truck big enough for the job. You point to the stack and give them the price and they're back on the road since to them time is money.


You know what's worse?  The guy at the lumber yard that doesn't know the meaning of "quarter sawn".  But there's worse than that, the miller that doesn't give a crap.

But if you're selling dimensional lumber, I reckon the worst from that perspective is the customer that wants every board to be quarter sawn, no matter the project he's building.



I found a guy who cuts it as needed.  I call him up and tell him what I want and two weeks later it's ready for pickup. I couldn't ask for better than that.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 10:02:42 AM EDT
[#3]
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Best advice in this thread.

pj
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OP, you might want to look at a Kreg pocket hole jig to do your face frame joinery.  This would do you nicely.  There are cheaper versions, but by the time you get the other stuff you need, the cost is about the same.


Best advice in this thread.

pj


I actually made my own with a piece of oak, and it's worked really well.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 10:08:12 AM EDT
[#4]
The reason I think it's dry enough is that I had previously planed and cut some wood (weeks before) and stored it in the dry house, and of course wood planed to 3/4" dries faster.  None of those boards have split or formed cracks, or even warped any amount that would cause trouble.  They weren't full-sized boards, but some were about the size of the faceplates of the drawers in the cabinet.  So I didn't go into making the cabinet completely blindly.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 10:10:41 AM EDT
[#5]
tag!
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 10:12:42 AM EDT
[#6]
Rule of thumb is one year per inch of thickness to air dry.  Two years would have been better.  
You will have lots of wood movement and splitting problems, like others said.  And buy a moisture meter if you haven't already - they are not expensive anymore.  
There is nothing wrong with air dried lumber despite what some "experts" here will tell you.  Craftsmen in the 1700s made some nice furniture, and if the families took care of it, they still exist today after 200 years.  Stuff like walnut is actually better and has richer color if its air dried.

I cut and milled a lot of the wood for my workshop floor - all ash.  It air dried for four years plus.  I only bought rough cut when I ran out.  All the trees I cut and sawed into board (I only had an Alaskan Sawmill attachment for my Stihl 66) were ones that blew over in a big wind storm.  Those boards look so much better than the ones from the lumber mills.


The first page of this thread was hard to read.  It was like I was in a room full of obama voters - why do anything yourself type crowd.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 10:20:02 AM EDT
[#7]
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The reason I think it's dry enough is that I had previously planed and cut some wood (weeks before) and stored it in the dry house, and of course wood planed to 3/4" dries faster.  None of those boards have split or formed cracks, or even warped any amount that would cause trouble.  They weren't full-sized boards, but some were about the size of the faceplates of the drawers in the cabinet.  So I didn't go into making the cabinet completely blindly.
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Put one in the fridge and see what happens.  Then put a different one in the freezer.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 10:40:26 AM EDT
[#8]
TAG





Link Posted: 7/23/2014 11:07:35 AM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:


I actually made my own with a piece of oak, and it's worked really well.
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OP, you might want to look at a Kreg pocket hole jig to do your face frame joinery.  This would do you nicely.  There are cheaper versions, but by the time you get the other stuff you need, the cost is about the same.


Best advice in this thread.

pj


I actually made my own with a piece of oak, and it's worked really well.

Cool.  In the picture, I thought I saw screws vertically through the rail into the end of the stile between the two center doors.  My error.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 11:18:29 AM EDT
[#10]
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 11:31:47 AM EDT
[#11]
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You too?
 
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Cool.  In the picture, I thought I saw screws vertically through the rail into the end of the stile between the two center doors.  My error.

You too?
 

<shrug>
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 12:15:50 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
The reason I think it's dry enough is that I had previously planed and cut some wood (weeks before) and stored it in the dry house, and of course wood planed to 3/4" dries faster.  None of those boards have split or formed cracks, or even warped any amount that would cause trouble.  They weren't full-sized boards, but some were about the size of the faceplates of the drawers in the cabinet.  So I didn't go into making the cabinet completely blindly.
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You have multiple people in a thread that actually know what they're talking about telling you you're doing it wrong, but you persist with the "dry enough" line.

Good luck.


Edit: just realized OP's username is entirely too ironic for this thread.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 12:22:17 PM EDT
[#13]
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Edit: just realized OP's username is entirely too ironic for this thread.
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I thought about mentioning that.


I hate to be so negative, but seat me with the "This will not end well" crowd.

Link Posted: 7/23/2014 3:21:10 PM EDT
[#14]


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You have multiple people in a thread that actually know what they're talking about telling you you're doing it wrong, but you persist with the "dry enough" line.





Good luck.
Edit: just realized OP's username is entirely too ironic for this thread.
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Quoted:


The reason I think it's dry enough is that I had previously planed and cut some wood (weeks before) and stored it in the dry house, and of course wood planed to 3/4" dries faster.  None of those boards have split or formed cracks, or even warped any amount that would cause trouble.  They weren't full-sized boards, but some were about the size of the faceplates of the drawers in the cabinet.  So I didn't go into making the cabinet completely blindly.

You have multiple people in a thread that actually know what they're talking about telling you you're doing it wrong, but you persist with the "dry enough" line.





Good luck.
Edit: just realized OP's username is entirely too ironic for this thread.





 

You people are just jealous of OP







Can't stand to see anyone have anything nice





















 
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 3:47:34 PM EDT
[#15]
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  You people are just jealous of OP

Can't stand to see anyone have anything nice




 
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I am going to have to check the calibration of my sarcasm meter. It seems to be giving fluctuating readings.



Link Posted: 7/23/2014 4:20:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Sir,

You seriously need some better drawer runners.

Link Posted: 7/23/2014 4:28:44 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:

Cool.  In the picture, I thought I saw screws vertically through the rail into the end of the stile between the two center doors.  My error.
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OP, you might want to look at a Kreg pocket hole jig to do your face frame joinery.  This would do you nicely.  There are cheaper versions, but by the time you get the other stuff you need, the cost is about the same.


Best advice in this thread.

pj


I actually made my own with a piece of oak, and it's worked really well.

Cool.  In the picture, I thought I saw screws vertically through the rail into the end of the stile between the two center doors.  My error.


I did that with some of them, but with some of them it was impossible because some of the other boards were in the way, so I made the rig and made a slanted hole in the back for the screw.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 4:31:57 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:



You have multiple people in a thread that actually know what they're talking about telling you you're doing it wrong, but you persist with the "dry enough" line.
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The reason I think it's dry enough is that I had previously planed and cut some wood (weeks before) and stored it in the dry house, and of course wood planed to 3/4" dries faster.  None of those boards have split or formed cracks, or even warped any amount that would cause trouble.  They weren't full-sized boards, but some were about the size of the faceplates of the drawers in the cabinet.  So I didn't go into making the cabinet completely blindly.



You have multiple people in a thread that actually know what they're talking about telling you you're doing it wrong, but you persist with the "dry enough" line.
[/img]


Why wouldn't I insist on the "dry enough" line?  It is either dry enough or it's not, but I can't change that now, so I might as well be optimistic, and my explanation is why I think I have a decent reason to be optimistic.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 5:34:36 PM EDT
[#19]
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I did that with some of them, but with some of them it was impossible because some of the other boards were in the way, so I made the rig and made a slanted hole in the back for the screw.
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OP, you might want to look at a Kreg pocket hole jig to do your face frame joinery.  This would do you nicely.  There are cheaper versions, but by the time you get the other stuff you need, the cost is about the same.


Best advice in this thread.

pj


I actually made my own with a piece of oak, and it's worked really well.

Cool.  In the picture, I thought I saw screws vertically through the rail into the end of the stile between the two center doors.  My error.


I did that with some of them, but with some of them it was impossible because some of the other boards were in the way, so I made the rig and made a slanted hole in the back for the screw.

Most of us learned by doing just like you are, we just started before you did.

One point on the joint I mentioned above.  Screw threads have greater holding power in face or edge grain (for your purposes, there's no difference) than end grain.  Your joint would have been stronger if you'd made pockets in the vertical member (stile) so that the screw went through it into the horizontal member (rail).
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 5:48:28 PM EDT
[#20]
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Most of us learned by doing just like you are, we just started before you did.

One point on the joint I mentioned above.  Screw threads have greater holding power in face or edge grain (for your purposes, there's no difference) than end grain.  Your joint would have been stronger if you'd made pockets in the vertical member (stile) so that the screw went through it into the horizontal member (rail).
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With my limited tools that might be difficult, but maybe I could do that with a router.  Good point and tip, I hadn't even thought about end grain weakness.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 6:45:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Good luck with your build, OP.

And if the boards shift from further drying, you at least have plenty left in the stack to start over again.
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 6:48:19 PM EDT
[#22]
derp..
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 6:52:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Seal both ends of every board. If you don't, you'll get lots of deformation during seasoning. Ask me how I know...

Link Posted: 7/23/2014 7:00:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 7/23/2014 7:16:57 PM EDT
[#25]
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That's not a log...THIS is a log...

<a href="http://s46.photobucket.com/user/WeeTodd/media/DSC_2848_zpsf7f645cb.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f115/WeeTodd/DSC_2848_zpsf7f645cb.jpg</a>

<a href="http://s46.photobucket.com/user/WeeTodd/media/DSC_2850_zps9fa67523.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f115/WeeTodd/DSC_2850_zps9fa67523.jpg</a>
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Wow. You just made me think impure thoughts. That is beautiful!

Link Posted: 7/23/2014 9:51:01 PM EDT
[#26]
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Seal both ends of every board. If you don't, you'll get lots of deformation during seasoning. Ask me how I know...

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I sealed each log with paraffin and a propane torch before they were cut into boards, so they should be fine.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 12:27:37 AM EDT
[#27]
Op, your lumber is not cured enough. If you've had the same summer weather as Ohio... I just had to join in...
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 12:41:04 AM EDT
[#28]
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I sealed each log with paraffin and a propane torch before they were cut into boards, so they should be fine.
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Seal both ends of every board. If you don't, you'll get lots of deformation during seasoning. Ask me how I know...



I sealed each log with paraffin and a propane torch before they were cut into boards, so they should be fine.



Alrighty then.





Link Posted: 7/24/2014 12:54:31 AM EDT
[#29]

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There is a woman maybe thirty minutes from where I live who has a Wood-Mizer.  She sawed and milled all the flooring for her house, does small lots for whoever needs it, and does (or did) custom sawing for local deadrise boat builders.  Wiry old thing, neat person.
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I think I envy you your neighborhood.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 4:19:17 AM EDT
[#30]
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  I think I envy you your neighborhood.
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There is a woman maybe thirty minutes from where I live who has a Wood-Mizer.  She sawed and milled all the flooring for her house, does small lots for whoever needs it, and does (or did) custom sawing for local deadrise boat builders.  Wiry old thing, neat person.

  I think I envy you your neighborhood.

I like it.  It's about a twenty-five mile roundtrip to the grocery store, but my nearest neighbor is a horse.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 4:53:09 AM EDT
[#31]
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Why wouldn't I insist on the "dry enough" line?  It is either dry enough or it's not, but I can't change that now, so I might as well be optimistic, and my explanation is why I think I have a decent reason to be optimistic.
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While I disagree that you have reason to be optimistic, I do agree that you can't change it now and might as well hope for the best.

If nothing else, this will be a good learning experience. You will see all kinds of things that you will want to do differently on your next project.

Woodworking is like many other skills. It looks like it ought to be fairly straightforward. In reality, there are hundreds of little bits of info that you eventually accumulate. Like which way to face grain to reduce the effects of cupping. Like predicting how wood is going to move with humidity changes and allowing for it. Like knowing how to approach certain grain patterns with a hand plane or router.

Woodworking, welding, engine building, machining - they are all that way.


I ended up scrapping the first really nice wood table I built before finished it. The second table was  much better.

When I first started welding, I kept thinking "I know how to do this, why won't it just work".

If you really like woodworking, don't give up. Get some good books and also try to find a geezer who has been at for at least a couple of decades.
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 5:59:59 AM EDT
[#32]
A few years back some city boy somewhere, sitting at his desk, decided "No trees within 50 feet of any company building".  No matter the trees were there 50yrs before he was even an egg and sperm cocktail.  Dumb ass.





My company spent $$$ having crews come in and make chips out of perfectly healthy trees of many varieties.  When the crews came to my exchange I cut a deal with them.  Simply get them on the ground and grind the stump.  I will handle ALL THE REST.  Logs,limbs, branches & brush.  I'd deal with it and I did.





Logs were hauled to a sawyer.  Limbs and slabs cut into firewood, branches & brush made into habitat for critters.





There was a local retired fellow who had his own Wood Mizer.  I made a deal with him too.  I'd help out, he'd get a portion of the sawn boards.





I stacked & racked up over 35,000 bd ft of Ash, Oak, Spruce, Cherry, White Pine, Red & White Cedar and even some Black Willow in an old tin shed. Most of it dried for 5yrs. My sons made all sorts of things through middle & high school including our bathroom cabinets.  





I'm down to about 12,000 feet of Spruce.  In two weeks when I retire, I'll be running that stuff through the Dewalt surface planer, dulling some router bits and making base board trim for our second house.





Total cost, minus labor, maybe $50 in fuel.

 
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 6:44:37 AM EDT
[#33]
+1 on the Kreg Jig

Dirt simple, strong and fast.  One of my first purchases (along with a Festool rail saw - also the bomb in my opinion, like it more than my table saw)!
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 6:53:58 AM EDT
[#34]
Wood moisture meter for 25$ shipped

And here is what my 6'3" 14 year old does on warm summer nights when his 75 year old grandfather needs a little help.

Link Posted: 7/24/2014 7:19:29 AM EDT
[#35]
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Alrighty then.





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Seal both ends of every board. If you don't, you'll get lots of deformation during seasoning. Ask me how I know...



I sealed each log with paraffin and a propane torch before they were cut into boards, so they should be fine.



Alrighty then.







What's wrong?  Each board is sealed, and you ?
Link Posted: 7/24/2014 7:21:54 AM EDT
[#36]
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A few years back some city boy somewhere, sitting at his desk, decided "No trees within 50 feet of any company building".  No matter the trees were there 50yrs before he was even an egg and sperm cocktail.  Dumb ass.

My company spent $$$ having crews come in and make chips out of perfectly healthy trees of many varieties.  When the crews came to my exchange I cut a deal with them.  Simply get them on the ground and grind the stump.  I will handle ALL THE REST.  Logs,limbs, branches & brush.  I'd deal with it and I did.

Logs were hauled to a sawyer.  Limbs and slabs cut into firewood, branches & brush made into habitat for critters.

There was a local retired fellow who had his own Wood Mizer.  I made a deal with him too.  I'd help out, he'd get a portion of the sawn boards.

I stacked & racked up over 35,000 bd ft of Ash, Oak, Spruce, Cherry, White Pine, Red & White Cedar and even some Black Willow in an old tin shed. Most of it dried for 5yrs. My sons made all sorts of things through middle & high school including our bathroom cabinets.  

I'm down to about 12,000 feet of Spruce.  In two weeks when I retire, I'll be running that stuff through the Dewalt surface planer, dulling some router bits and making base board trim for our second house.

Total cost, minus labor, maybe $50 in fuel.  
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Wow.  Some people just have no idea what they have.  35,000 board feet just in one little part of the company's property?  Holy crap, the company could've made a fortune hiring a logger!
Link Posted: 7/28/2014 5:39:48 PM EDT
[#37]
OK, I'll eat a little crow here.  Not that I doubted everyone's concerns that I used the wood too early - I wasn't thinking and just went into it excitedly, and, well after the fact kind of had to make excuses to defend my unwise decisions.  But anyway, the faceplates of the drawers are warping and don't meet flushly with the frame anymore.  They're bowed towards the concave side of the grain.  I'll either have to make new faceplates or plane them down to 5/8th of an inch and rerouter them.

Fortunately, other than that the wood looks fine.  The frame is fine and the drawer parts are fine, and they have actually been drying longer after being planed (and 3/4th of an inch wood dries a lot faster than 1 1/8" lumber).  The faceplates are by far the widest pieces, and so would probably show warping a lot more.  In fact I can't even see any warpage in the drawer parts.
Link Posted: 7/28/2014 8:44:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Sorry OP - but it's not done moving yet.
Link Posted: 7/28/2014 9:32:35 PM EDT
[#39]
I've had this stack of mixed maple and oak air-drying in the garage since 2002, just now getting ready to start planing/jointing the planks for a desk project.





The delay was mostly due to saving up for a good jointer. Finally located a Ridgid JP0610 at Home Depot. I went ahead and sprung for a Byrd head since I have a lot of hardwood to cut, and I hate aligning knives.




Link Posted: 7/28/2014 9:53:43 PM EDT
[#40]

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How thick were they cut?  I did some experiments with log-sized boards that I cut with a tablesaw a half a year ago or so, and any board thinner than about 3/4" bowed a bit, but the 1" boards all seemed to stay straight.
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So what's the deal with drying/seasoning?  I knew a guy that bought one of those sawmills, chopped a bunch of trees on his property and built a barn, house, and some outbuildings with the lumber, but it seems like every board he made curled on him.




How thick were they cut?  I did some experiments with log-sized boards that I cut with a tablesaw a half a year ago or so, and any board thinner than about 3/4" bowed a bit, but the 1" boards all seemed to stay straight.
You need to get a moisture meter to check the moisture content in the wood and to learn about drying.  Also, plain sawn wood reacts differently than quartersawn wood.  Jointer's are used to get one side flat after the wood has properly dried, planers are used to get the other side parallel to the first side.  You use a bandsaw to resaw the board to close to final thickness and save the wood rather than planing it all to chips.



 
Link Posted: 7/29/2014 1:27:55 AM EDT
[#41]
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OK, I'll eat a little crow here.  Not that I doubted everyone's concerns that I used the wood too early - I wasn't thinking and just went into it excitedly, and, well after the fact kind of had to make excuses to defend my unwise decisions.  But anyway, the faceplates of the drawers are warping and don't meet flushly with the frame anymore.  They're bowed towards the concave side of the grain.  I'll either have to make new faceplates or plane them down to 5/8th of an inch and rerouter them.

Fortunately, other than that the wood looks fine.  The frame is fine and the drawer parts are fine, and they have actually been drying longer after being planed (and 3/4th of an inch wood dries a lot faster than 1 1/8" lumber).  The faceplates are by far the widest pieces, and so would probably show warping a lot more.  In fact I can't even see any warpage in the drawer parts.
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You're beginning to see what the was for.


Link Posted: 7/29/2014 1:57:38 AM EDT
[#42]
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That thing is amazing.


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youtube has a video

I love gadgets!  it has some neat attachments, too.


That thing is amazing.



Link Posted: 7/29/2014 2:31:08 AM EDT
[#43]
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OK, I'll eat a little crow here.  Not that I doubted everyone's concerns that I used the wood too early - I wasn't thinking and just went into it excitedly, and, well after the fact kind of had to make excuses to defend my unwise decisions.  But anyway, the faceplates of the drawers are warping and don't meet flushly with the frame anymore.  They're bowed towards the concave side of the grain.  I'll either have to make new faceplates or plane them down to 5/8th of an inch and rerouter them.

Fortunately, other than that the wood looks fine.  The frame is fine and the drawer parts are fine, and they have actually been drying longer after being planed (and 3/4th of an inch wood dries a lot faster than 1 1/8" lumber).  The faceplates are by far the widest pieces, and so would probably show warping a lot more.  In fact I can't even see any warpage in the drawer parts.
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Eating crow ain't bad once in a while. Some of us spend our whole life learning the hard way...

You have a pile of lumber to play with. Enjoy yourself...
Link Posted: 7/29/2014 12:44:58 PM EDT
[#44]
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Eating crow ain't bad once in a while. Some of us spend our whole life learning the hard way...

You have a pile of lumber to play with. Enjoy yourself next year...
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OK, I'll eat a little crow here.  Not that I doubted everyone's concerns that I used the wood too early - I wasn't thinking and just went into it excitedly, and, well after the fact kind of had to make excuses to defend my unwise decisions.  But anyway, the faceplates of the drawers are warping and don't meet flushly with the frame anymore.  They're bowed towards the concave side of the grain.  I'll either have to make new faceplates or plane them down to 5/8th of an inch and rerouter them.

Fortunately, other than that the wood looks fine.  The frame is fine and the drawer parts are fine, and they have actually been drying longer after being planed (and 3/4th of an inch wood dries a lot faster than 1 1/8" lumber).  The faceplates are by far the widest pieces, and so would probably show warping a lot more.  In fact I can't even see any warpage in the drawer parts.



Eating crow ain't bad once in a while. Some of us spend our whole life learning the hard way...

You have a pile of lumber to play with. Enjoy yourself next year...


Fixed.
Link Posted: 7/29/2014 2:17:54 PM EDT
[#45]
The reason you cut to 1-1/8" on a mill, and then air dry for at least a year or two, minimum, is that the wood will move and twist as it dries, as you are now finding out.  That way you will have some room down the length to joint a side flat and then thickness plane to 3/4" and keep the boards long.  Running through a thickness planer alone is not good practice.  If you don't have a jointer, or have one as wide as the boards you are using, an old Stanley no5 with a sharp blade (with a slight radius or arc of the cutting edge) and winding sticks (1/2" angle aluminum stock, cut to about 18-24" long, one painted black, the other left plain meta) will do the job as well for getting one edge jointed reasonably flat, before you thickness plane.  Using only a thickness plane will give you a board that is mostly 3/4" thick, but it will retain most of the curve or twist it had after drying.  The longer the board, the worse it will be.
Plain sawn and quarter sawn boards will also move different amounts.  And where you have reaction wood, like near knots or crotch wood, it will go wherever it wants including thickness, as it dries.

http://blog.lostartpress.com/2013/12/21/water-vs-wood/

Anyone who is cutting their own lumber and doesn't spend the $50 for a moisture meter (unless you have the patience to let it sit for five or ten years) is just asking for problems.  
http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=71986&cat=1,43513
Link Posted: 8/22/2014 7:48:43 AM EDT
[#46]
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youtube has a video

I love gadgets!  it has some neat attachments, too.


That thing is amazing.





Better be for $42,000.
Link Posted: 8/23/2014 7:43:29 AM EDT
[#47]
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Why did you stack it in front of your garage door?
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Link Posted: 8/30/2014 1:04:53 PM EDT
[#48]
Move the wood into the A/C , it will dry much quicker.
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