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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:48:22 AM EDT
[#1]
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BS. 
The shark tank(so said because the sales people circle inside like sharks) in the next town over wanted to make 10 grand off of me... There are still dealers out there who operate as if the internet did not exist. 
And...drumroll please, if you are female you must be stupid and know nothing about cars right? Like in 'when can you come back with your husband'?  This right here. I am assistant manager at a NAPA store. Whenever I have a female customer I treat her with the same respect and consideration as I would a male. It is true that they are often (but not always) less knowledgable about what they need than males but, we get clueless male customers as well. Regardless, I speak to the customer in front of me at their individual level of expertise. I would consider it rude and unprofessional to treat a customer in a condescending manner simply because of their gender or any other factor outside their control. In the automotive industry (as in any other) respect given is respect earned. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:48:55 AM EDT
[#2]
About 95% of "dealerships ripping people off" is just buyers being fucking stupid.
As stated before though, the "dealership" business model is outdated and dumb. Let the dealerships keep running their garages (where they make most of their money anyway), and just keep a couple of "salesmen" around to let prospective customers test drive demo vehicles and ask questions before ordering what they want. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:49:13 AM EDT
[#3]
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What tax advantage? Buyer pays sales tax in VA, not seller. Like I said, I could understand a few grand off market value to make a profit (we would have agreed to $5k without question for the convenience), but that was just stupid. And I didn't get hosed on the deal, because I laughed at those offers and sold it on the internet without the "benefit" of a middleman. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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At the end of the day, a car dealership is still a retail store and have the right to ask a retail price. What this article points out is that if you simply do your homework and enter into the dealership with that information, you're going to walk away with a good car deal and ideally a good car buying experience. Many dealerships nowadays operate on a volume sales strategy. We just want to move units. How about trade ins? Is that why multiple dealerships offered us $2k on a car we wound up selling on craigslist for $7k? $1k or $2k difference I can see, but 70% below market value? That's pretty special. Take the tax advantage of the trade value offered, or sell your car and take the cash. It's not rocket science. The dealership needs to make a profit on your trade whether it goes on the lot or to an auction. They're in business to make money. Aren't you? This thread is full of babies that got hosed on a car deal and blame the dealership instead of their own impatience and inability to shop for the best price/value. What tax advantage? Buyer pays sales tax in VA, not seller. Like I said, I could understand a few grand off market value to make a profit (we would have agreed to $5k without question for the convenience), but that was just stupid. And I didn't get hosed on the deal, because I laughed at those offers and sold it on the internet without the "benefit" of a middleman. The sales tax is figured on the new car price minus the trade in value, at least here in AZ. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:49:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Coffee is for closers, op.
Stop complaining about shit leads. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:50:38 AM EDT
[#5]
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Tell me why I should go down in the dirt to cut my price if you're a laydown customer? I get paid commission. I never NEVER charge retail. I offer a price that is both fair for the customer and keeps my commission strong. If you snatch the credit app out of my hand and get to work with no negotiation or due diligence on your part, well, I'm not gonna say "naw man, I'll knock another 2% off" out of the goodness of my heart. I don't play games. I quote, sometimes I negotiate, and i always try to build a good relationship with my customers and let them know they can count on me. If you can't pay an extra 2% or whatever for the satisfaction of knowing I have my phone on me 24/7 and have been out in a field at 6 am on a Sunday morning trying to get a machine going on my own time and dime so I can keep a customer happy, then we can't make a deal. *Stand up, hand shake* Thank you for coming in, and have a nice day, sir.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Picked up a 2015 F-350 4x4 Crew cab long box for the county fleet on Monday. Sticker price was $44780 The county paid $31,200 for it, including "destination fee" Go on and tell me stealerships only make 5% profit. I have never sold a machine for retail price. And dealership don't either, save for specialty or rare units. If someone pays retail, that's their own problem. And that's why people hate car salesmen. Tell me why I should go down in the dirt to cut my price if you're a laydown customer? I get paid commission. I never NEVER charge retail. I offer a price that is both fair for the customer and keeps my commission strong. If you snatch the credit app out of my hand and get to work with no negotiation or due diligence on your part, well, I'm not gonna say "naw man, I'll knock another 2% off" out of the goodness of my heart. I don't play games. I quote, sometimes I negotiate, and i always try to build a good relationship with my customers and let them know they can count on me. If you can't pay an extra 2% or whatever for the satisfaction of knowing I have my phone on me 24/7 and have been out in a field at 6 am on a Sunday morning trying to get a machine going on my own time and dime so I can keep a customer happy, then we can't make a deal. *Stand up, hand shake* Thank you for coming in, and have a nice day, sir. You are using what is called a "straw man argument". Suggesting I said something I never said. Here, I googled it for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man I bolded the derogatory term for "someone who is not as familiar with car purchasing as someone in the industry". |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:50:52 AM EDT
[#6]
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LOL Explain how I am belittling people for maximizing their profit. They have a choice of where to buy and what to pay, and it doesn't have to be from me. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Take the tax advantage of the trade value offered, or sell your car and take the cash. It's not rocket science. The dealership needs to make a profit on your trade whether it goes on the lot or to an auction. They're in business to make money. Aren't you? This thread is full of babies that got hosed on a car deal and blame the dealership instead of their own impatience and inability to shop for the best price/value. Tax advantage?  You mean you can lower your tax on the new car by subtracting the value of the trade advantage? I think the 6k in my pocket is a better deal.
Then you insult and belittle people for trying to maximize their profit? Getting defensive and sticking up for a business will get you nowhere but embarrassed. LOL Explain how I am belittling people for maximizing their profit. They have a choice of where to buy and what to pay, and it doesn't have to be from me. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Is that hard for you to understand? Simple direct insult. I get it. I manage people that buy everything from pens to multi-million dollar construction equipment. Why do you get defensive so quickly? |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:53:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Dealers are not making much money on selling new cars, they make most of their money in the service department and factory incentives. Dealers will make more money from the manufacturer by selling cars and service at a lower price and getting better survey "CSI" scores from customers. Its a big ball of shit that rolls down hill when it comes to these surveys where they always put lots of pressure to get these higher ratings or else they will find someone new. Its VERY cut throat.
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:54:36 AM EDT
[#8]
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The sales tax is figured on the new car price minus the trade in value, at least here in AZ. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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At the end of the day, a car dealership is still a retail store and have the right to ask a retail price. What this article points out is that if you simply do your homework and enter into the dealership with that information, you're going to walk away with a good car deal and ideally a good car buying experience. Many dealerships nowadays operate on a volume sales strategy. We just want to move units. How about trade ins? Is that why multiple dealerships offered us $2k on a car we wound up selling on craigslist for $7k? $1k or $2k difference I can see, but 70% below market value? That's pretty special. Take the tax advantage of the trade value offered, or sell your car and take the cash. It's not rocket science. The dealership needs to make a profit on your trade whether it goes on the lot or to an auction. They're in business to make money. Aren't you? This thread is full of babies that got hosed on a car deal and blame the dealership instead of their own impatience and inability to shop for the best price/value. What tax advantage? Buyer pays sales tax in VA, not seller. Like I said, I could understand a few grand off market value to make a profit (we would have agreed to $5k without question for the convenience), but that was just stupid. And I didn't get hosed on the deal, because I laughed at those offers and sold it on the internet without the "benefit" of a middleman. The sales tax is figured on the new car price minus the trade in value, at least here in AZ. There's no way in blue hell that would make up a $5k differential. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:55:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask around for a referral. The good, honest ones don't advertise - they don't need to. Word of mouth keeps them busy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I find mechanics to be the bigger thieves but they somehow don't get the stigma that car sales guys get. Ask around for a referral. The good, honest ones don't advertise - they don't need to. Word of mouth keeps them busy. I am blessed to have two GREAT mechanics at my disposal, one near work and one near our house. I do the majority of my own vehicle repair. However, occasionally I use my mechanics for more difficult tasks or when I don't have time to do it myself. They both allow me to bring in my own parts and they will install them. Definitely ask around for referrals. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 10:58:39 AM EDT
[#10]
4% my a$$! Give you a little example. It's a few years old but My Ex had to have a new car. No problem, This is early 05. I tell her to take My Roadmaster and sell it. It's a 94 real nice car. Worth an easy 3 G at the time. She has a high mile 97 Taurus worth about 1200=1500. so both cars are worth about 4500 max. She goes to a dealer. Comes away with a Late 90s Dodge Caravan worth about 6000 at the time. They get her for 9000 give her something like 1500-2000 for both cars.
I tell all my kids not to buy from dealers. They don't listen to Dad and are upside down on what they own. Dealers will screw you if you don't know exactly what you want and what you are willing to pay. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:02:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4% my a$$! Give you a little example. It's a few years old but My Ex had to have a new car. No problem, This is early 05. I tell her to take My Roadmaster and sell it. It's a 94 real nice car. Worth an easy 3 G at the time. She has a high mile 97 Taurus worth about 1200=1500. so both cars are worth about 4500 max. She goes to a dealer. Comes away with a Late 90s Dodge Caravan worth about 6000 at the time. They get her for 9000 give her something like 1500-2000 for both cars. I tell all my kids not to buy from dealers. They don't listen to Dad and are upside down on what they own. Dealers will screw you if you don't know exactly what you want and what you are willing to pay. 4500 retail or wholesale? Dealers can't buy and sell at retail. Just asking because a lot of people don't understand this. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:04:56 AM EDT
[#12]
No fucks given.
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:07:28 AM EDT
[#13]
whats funny to me is that is most areas, GD is all 'free market, it's worth what people are willing to pay, there's no such thing as price gouging, it costs what it costs.' but when it comes to car buying, GD is saying 'fuck you, you're making more than i think you should be making. even though i dont really know how much you're making...'
 when you go to Macys for a pair of jeans, do you tell the employee 'i know you're making a xx% markup on these. how much lower are you going to go?' Or, 'well this sale price is the price everyone gets. what price are you doing to give meeee?' |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:09:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're exactly the person this article was written towards. Did you even read it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You know where I think car dealers stand on the 'Ron White microphone stand' totem pole? Yeah..... No sympathy. You're exactly the person this article was written towards. Did you even read it? I'm with him. couldn't care less
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:09:21 AM EDT
[#15]
I'm not certain that I have ever been cheated at a dealership. If I was it was my own fault. I do know, for a fact, that I have been lied to & have had dealers try to cheat me over the years. Here's a few instances that I have posted before.
1. Local Chrysler dealer has a deal listed on their marquee for a great price on a convertible. GF at the time asked me to check it out for her as she needed a new car and wanted a convertible. I stopped by the dealer and inquired about the car. I was told "that car is sold but we have plenty of others", all of which were nowhere near the deal price. I told them to go screw themselves and left the dealer. That "deal" remained up on the marquee for another 4 weeks after I went to the dealer. 2. Ten years later I went back to the dealer to look at a new RAM truck. I had done my research and I told them exactly what I wanted. They said that they did not have a truck like that on the lot but had found one in Orlando that they could have on the lot the next day. We sat down and did the paperwork and the price was outstanding! Next morning I get a call from the dealer stating that they had made a mistake. The truck that they were selling me was a used vehicle with several thousand miles on it. They gave me a quote on an identical new truck but the deal was $5000 more than the earlier deal. Needless to say, my laughter told them that I would not be buying from them. 3. I decided that I would buy a 2004 Corvette since GM was providing huge incentives to clear them from the lots in preparation for the new C6 models. Dealers in NJ, MI & GA were offering $10,000 off MSRP. I contacted two local dealers and told them that I would like to buy locally and asked them to give me quotes. The best either of them would do was $3000 off MSRP. Both said that there was no way I would get $10K off from the other dealers. That weekend I flew to ATL ($99) and drove my new Corvette home @ $10K off. 4. Searched the web and found 2 trucks that had the options that I wanted. I contacted the closest dealer and let them know that I wanted the truck and that I had an "in the driveway program certificate" so it would be a straightforward/quick sale. GM's ITD certificates have a set price for the vehicle and limit the add on charges that the dealer can include in the final price. I reminded the salesman of this and asked him to fax me the final/bottom line price. When I got the fax, it included ~ $1000 in charges that are not allowed under the program. I faxed the quote back with a huge "REJECTED" note written on it. Within 5 minutes I got a new quote with the correct amount. I faxed them back saying that I would be buying the truck from another dealer (see below). I ended up contacting the dealer with the second truck. Gave him the same info that I had given the first dealer. He faxed me back the price in 15 minutes and it was exactly in line with the ITD program. I flew to Atlanta later that week and the salesman picked me up at the airport and drove me to the dealership. When I got there, all of the paperwork was ready but they mentioned that there were a couple of things that they might need to change on the deal. My first thought was "Oh shit, I bought a one way ticket!" The salesman said that GM had an additional $750 hurricane rebate since was a Florida resident and that if I financed through them I could get an additional $1000 rebate. They modified the paperwork at my request and I drove the truck home that day. THIS is how it should work ... I want this product, you want to sell it. Let's work together for both of our benefit. 5. Went into a dealer to see about trading in my (then) current car on a Pontiac Firebird Formula. After the test drive, we sat down to "do the math". Price on the Formula was OK since it was a demonstrator model. However, they only offered me $3,000 for my trade in. I took HIS blue book off of HIS desk and showed him that the BB trade in values of my car was at least $6000. He said "BB values are wrong." He said he would take the deal into the manager and see what he could do for me. While he was in with the manager, I walked the lot and came up on a used car that was identical to mine with the exception of color. The price on the window was $10,995! When he came back over to me I was sitting on the hood of the car and pointed out this vehicle to him. He stumbled and stammered for a while before saying "The Formula is such a good deal since it is a demonstrator, I should jump on it." I asked him what he meant. He said that the demonstrator is evaluated by everyone that drives it, any problems are documented and corrections are made to any problems that are found. He said that a demonstrator was a better car than a new car. I asked to see the evaluation documentation for the Formula and he got pissed and walked off. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:10:46 AM EDT
[#16]
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Is that hard for you to understand? Simple direct insult. I get it. I manage people that buy everything from pens to multi-million dollar construction equipment. Why do you get defensive so quickly? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Take the tax advantage of the trade value offered, or sell your car and take the cash. It's not rocket science. The dealership needs to make a profit on your trade whether it goes on the lot or to an auction. They're in business to make money. Aren't you? This thread is full of babies that got hosed on a car deal and blame the dealership instead of their own impatience and inability to shop for the best price/value. Tax advantage? You mean you can lower your tax on the new car by subtracting the value of the trade advantage? I think the 6k in my pocket is a better deal.
Then you insult and belittle people for trying to maximize their profit? Getting defensive and sticking up for a business will get you nowhere but embarrassed. LOL Explain how I am belittling people for maximizing their profit. They have a choice of where to buy and what to pay, and it doesn't have to be from me. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Is that hard for you to understand? Simple direct insult. I get it. I manage people that buy everything from pens to multi-million dollar construction equipment. Why do you get defensive so quickly? I'm not defensive.  I made a statement that clearly stung you somewhat. It's a statement of fact. When folks sign on the dotted line, and realized later that they got hosed, they need to be thinking about how to be a better buyer next time.
I can't adjust interest rates, I don't hide anything on the back end, and I'm straight up front with customers about what's going on, every step of the way. I have left thousands and thousands of commission dollars on the table by offering stupid low prices right up front on customers who did NOT do their due diligence. I'm not mad at them, I'm mad at myself. Shit happens on both sides of the desk. I deal with it and move on. So should you. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:11:45 AM EDT
[#17]
The Carfax price is a complete joke. The most recent car I bought was used. The dealer pulled Carfax and it said the sticker price was $120 below the fair market price. Kelly Blue Book put the sticker price $2500 too high. Call them on it and he insisted that Carfax was more reliable. Luckily his head wasn't that far up his ass bc he did come to KBB price finally.
I've had another dealership tell me they had to put money in a car to make it pass emissions (obviously not new car) so it was worth more than KBB. I laughed and left. Not my problem if you suck at buying trade-ins. I know, CSB |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:12:49 AM EDT
[#18]
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There's no way in blue hell that would make up a $5k differential. Not even close, not sure why he mentioned it. It made a difference to us when we last purchased, better deal by about $125. 
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:20:50 AM EDT
[#19]
Dealerships do tend to have a higher used car markup. But I always try to get as much as I can onto the "we owe list". That way you have in writing that the car will be repaired and to your liking. You can also take it back to be corrected if it's not right.
No other used car lot or private seller will do this. Plus you get a little peice of mind knowing that's has been went over by legit mechanics and not rigged up just to get sold. Now small used car lots, I've found most of them to be sleazier than ever. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:21:34 AM EDT
[#20]
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Not even close, not sure why he mentioned it. It made a difference to us when we last purchased, better deal by about $125. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There's no way in blue hell that would make up a $5k differential. Not even close, not sure why he mentioned it. It made a difference to us when we last purchased, better deal by about $125. I mentioned it because it's a choice that you, as the buyer, get to make. I'm not saying that taking the tax break and cash towards purchase price is the better deal. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:24:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Okay, now read the real behind the scenes scheming that goes on at car dealerships. Edmunds.com sent an undercover reporter behind the scenes to sell cars at different dealerships and write and article about his experiences. This is that article:
http://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/confessions-of-a-car-salesman.html ETA: a small excerpt from a long article. Well worth the read if you have the time. The next step in my training involved the use of the "4-square work sheet." Michael told me the 4-square was my friend, it was the salesman's tool for getting "maximum gross profit." As the name implies, the sheet is divided into four sections. When you have a prospect "in the box" (in the sales cubicle) you pull out a 4-square and go to work. The information about the customer is written along the top together with the make, model and serial number of the car they want to buy. Then the salesman writes the sticker price of the car in large numbers in the upper right square on the worksheet. Michael stressed that the price of the car should be written in large clear numbers to give it a feeling of authority. He added that we should always write "+ fees" next to the price of the car (This includes license fees and sales tax.). "Good penmanship is essential," he said. "This makes it harder for them to negotiate. "You're saying, 'Mr. Customer, if you want our beautiful new car, this is the price you're going to have to pay.'" The other boxes on the 4-square are for the price of the trade-in, the amount of the customer's down payment, and the amount of the customer's monthly payment. "When you negotiate, this sheet should be covered with numbers," Michael said. "It should be like a battleground. And I don't want to see the price dropping five hundred dollars at a pop. Come down slowly, slowly. Here I'll show you how." The process begins by asking the customer how much they want for a monthly payment. Usually, they say, about $300. "Then, you just say, '$300... up to?' And they'll say, 'Well, $350.' Now they've just bumped themselves $50 a month. That's huge." You then fill in $350 under the monthly payment box. Michael said you could use the "up to" trick with the down payment too. "If Mr. Customer says he wants to put down $2000, you say, "Up to?" And he'll probably bump himself up to $2500." Michael then wrote $2,500 in the down payment box of the 4-square worksheet. I later found out this little phrase "Up to?" was a joke around the dealership. When salesmen or women passed each other in the hallways, they would say, "Up to?" and break out laughing. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:25:27 AM EDT
[#22]
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I'm not defensive. I made a statement that clearly stung you somewhat. It's a statement of fact. When folks sign on the dotted line, and realized later that they got hosed, they need to be thinking about how to be a better buyer next time.
I can't adjust interest rates, I don't hide anything on the back end, and I'm straight up front with customers about what's going on, every step of the way. I have left thousands and thousands of commission dollars on the table by offering stupid low prices right up front on customers who did NOT do their due diligence. I'm not mad at them, I'm mad at myself. Shit happens on both sides of the desk. I deal with it and move on. So should you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Take the tax advantage of the trade value offered, or sell your car and take the cash. It's not rocket science. The dealership needs to make a profit on your trade whether it goes on the lot or to an auction. They're in business to make money. Aren't you? This thread is full of babies that got hosed on a car deal and blame the dealership instead of their own impatience and inability to shop for the best price/value. Tax advantage? You mean you can lower your tax on the new car by subtracting the value of the trade advantage? I think the 6k in my pocket is a better deal.
Then you insult and belittle people for trying to maximize their profit? Getting defensive and sticking up for a business will get you nowhere but embarrassed. LOL Explain how I am belittling people for maximizing their profit. They have a choice of where to buy and what to pay, and it doesn't have to be from me. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Is that hard for you to understand? Simple direct insult. I get it. I manage people that buy everything from pens to multi-million dollar construction equipment. Why do you get defensive so quickly? I'm not defensive. I made a statement that clearly stung you somewhat. It's a statement of fact. When folks sign on the dotted line, and realized later that they got hosed, they need to be thinking about how to be a better buyer next time.
I can't adjust interest rates, I don't hide anything on the back end, and I'm straight up front with customers about what's going on, every step of the way. I have left thousands and thousands of commission dollars on the table by offering stupid low prices right up front on customers who did NOT do their due diligence. I'm not mad at them, I'm mad at myself. Shit happens on both sides of the desk. I deal with it and move on. So should you. Somehow you have managed to change this from a "how car salesmen are scummy low-lifes" to how virtuous you are, lol. You also side stepped around the insults you made by addressing everything but that.
It is very telling. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:26:20 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Losing a sale over $50-100 is being insanely competitive. If it comes down to that, don't be a dick. If the guy that just invested several hours of his life working with you provided you with a good buying experience while you were there, go back and purchase the vehicle from him. My mother wanted/needed a new vehicle and decided that she would get an Impala. Went to her home town dealership and found the car she was looking for. I walked up to the salesman who came out to the lot while we were looking and told him that I would be buying the car from him if his price was the best . I asked him for his best "out the door "price for the vehicle. He wrote up a quote and showed it to me. I asked him if that was his best price and he assured me that it was. I asked him for a copy of the quote and he would not give it to me. I thanked him for his time (all 20 minutes of it.) and left. Went 15 miles down the road and ran the same scenario at a 2nd dealer. The price came back considerable cheaper so we bought the vehicle there. 1st salesman calls me back later in the day and asks when he could expect me to come do the paperwork. I told him that I bought the car from a competitor for $xxx less. He got all pissed and told me that he would have matched that price if I had come back. SMH |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:32:08 AM EDT
[#24]
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Repeal the ridiculous laws which allow dealerships to exist in the first place and let the manufacturers sell directly to people. That's not going too well for Tesla, right now. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:33:36 AM EDT
[#25]
If you've got an extra $50-100 in it, why not give it to me now. Make me the idiot that wasted his gas and time driving around all day not finding a better deal — you'll look like the good guy then.
If he can beat your price by $50 and then you can turn around and beat his price by $50, then just give me the $100 off the bat. How hard is that? Best option guys/gals: Find the vehicle you want, write a check for what you're willing to pay, write the VIN in the memo section and take it to the dealership. Neither party has to agree to terms they are uncomfortable with and either can say "No". |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:36:24 AM EDT
[#26]
I have a thread in the auto section about a 92 4x4 Toyota pickup I bought with 70k original miles. It was $4950 + tax, tag, title, doc. Fees. It sounds high but I assure you that's a great price for the condition and my market area.
Here's a list of things that were agreed to be done to it before I bought it. Fix a/c. There was still a rattle when the compressor kicked on, so now they are replacing the entire compressor. Replace tailgate handle No engine light on, fix all the o2 sensors etc. The speedometer started bouncing (common Toyota pickup) odo. Still worked. Now replacing the entire cluster with a Toyota one with mileage set back by dealer. I also got a list of what was done before sale. Full inspection Change all fluids, oil, trans, etc New oil pan gasket/ sealant Fuel system cleaned Battery corrosion removed, and protectant put on Full clean and detail, even painted inside the wheel well area. Even if they gave chump change for the truck, I bet they are turning very little profit by now. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:38:48 AM EDT
[#27]
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They may only make 4% on the car, but they still try to sell you "protective coatings" at 500% markup, give you crap for your trade in, screw you on the financing, and push hard that extended warranty. If you've ever added the numbers up on the contract, you have probably found that extra $500 to $1000 math "mistake". |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:39:59 AM EDT
[#28]
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If you've got an extra $50-100 in it, why not give it to me now. Make me the idiot that wasted his gas and time driving around all day not finding a better deal — you'll look like the good guy then. If he can beat your price by $50 and then you can turn around and beat his price by $50, then just give me the $100 off the bat. How hard is that? Best option guys/gals: Find the vehicle you want, write a check for what you're willing to pay, write the VIN in the memo section and take it to the dealership. Neither party has to agree to terms they are uncomfortable with and either can say "No". If $50 is that important to you, why aren't you on your way to the other dealership? |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:54:38 AM EDT
[#29]
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Somehow you have managed to change this from a "how car salesmen are scummy low-lifes" to how virtuous you are, lol. You also side stepped around the insults you made by addressing everything but that.
It is very telling. Well, I am a pretty virtuous guy. 
Regarding the original quote in red that you highlighted, here is me addressing it: Customer goes to a dealership and sits down with a salesman. At any time he/she is free to get up and walk out. Sits through negotiation. Sits through closed door sales manager talks. Sits through trade valuation. Sits through the F&I guy and OK's every aftermarket warranty/wax job/VIN tagging he throws at them. Signs on the dotted line, keys trade hands, buyer leaves dealership. CAN GET UP AND WALK OUT AT ANY TIME. CHOOSES NOT TO. Two weeks later, just for fun, requests an internet quote from a dealer 50 miles away. Right off the bat, could have saved $3,000 by DOING THEIR DUE DILIGENCE AND SHOPPING FOR THE BEST PRICE OR VALUE. I stand by my statement. When people EITHER get completely reamed by a dealership, OR miss out on savings of any amount at all, it's because the buyer didn't have the ability to say no, ask for a written best price quote, or get up and walk out. Back in the day, a salesman would try just about anything to keep someone there and make them sign. Some still do. It's a shitty practice, but it happens. However, I doubt very seriously that any salesman has held a gun to someone's head and made them sign a contract. What margin a dealership makes on a car/tractor/CNC/software is irrelevant here. What matters is this: Dealership offers a product that the buyer wants, at a price the buyer wants to pay. I've never bought a car I didn't want to pay for. I've been raw dogged on a car purchase. I accepted the price they offered without any research into other options available, or shopping around for better pricing. BUT AT THE TIME I PURCHASED THE VEHICLE, it was at a price and interest that I was willing to pay. Now, at this point, I'm trying to figure out why you're still so confused about the statement I made. If it offended you, sorry. But I stand by it. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 11:58:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you've ever added the numbers up on the contract, you have probably found that extra $500 to $1000 math "mistake". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They may only make 4% on the car, but they still try to sell you "protective coatings" at 500% markup, give you crap for your trade in, screw you on the financing, and push hard that extended warranty. If you've ever added the numbers up on the contract, you have probably found that extra $500 to $1000 math "mistake". People sign contracts they've never read all the time. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:03:46 PM EDT
[#31]
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Take the tax advantage of the trade value offered, or sell your car and take the cash. It's not rocket science. The dealership needs to make a profit on your trade whether it goes on the lot or to an auction. They're in business to make money. Aren't you? This thread is full of babies that got hosed on a car deal and blame the dealership instead of their own impatience and inability to shop for the best price/value. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
At the end of the day, a car dealership is still a retail store and have the right to ask a retail price. What this article points out is that if you simply do your homework and enter into the dealership with that information, you're going to walk away with a good car deal and ideally a good car buying experience. Many dealerships nowadays operate on a volume sales strategy. We just want to move units. How about trade ins? Is that why multiple dealerships offered us $2k on a car we wound up selling on craigslist for $7k? $1k or $2k difference I can see, but 70% below market value? That's pretty special. Take the tax advantage of the trade value offered, or sell your car and take the cash. It's not rocket science. The dealership needs to make a profit on your trade whether it goes on the lot or to an auction. They're in business to make money. Aren't you? This thread is full of babies that got hosed on a car deal and blame the dealership instead of their own impatience and inability to shop for the best price/value. This. /I don't sell cars, never have. But there is no gun to your head to buy. People buy because they want the car more than they want to think.. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:09:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you've ever added the numbers up on the contract, you have probably found that extra $500 to $1000 math "mistake". Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They may only make 4% on the car, but they still try to sell you "protective coatings" at 500% markup, give you crap for your trade in, screw you on the financing, and push hard that extended warranty. If you've ever added the numbers up on the contract, you have probably found that extra $500 to $1000 math "mistake". I have seen that one. Also don't leave your keys to get the trade in valued. They won't want to give them back. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:14:23 PM EDT
[#33]
I treat them the same way I treat gun dealers. If I walk in and see something I like and the price tag is fair or I am willing to pay the $ on the price tag, then I buy it. If not, then no thank you, I will keep looking. Pretty fucking simple.
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:15:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
then be competitive stop trying to justify your anti-competitive strategies by blaming the customer when your policies and prices are the cause of the lost sale. and yes, I'm going to shop every single dealership that stocks the car I want because it's stupid NOT to. I wouldn't only go to one shop looking for an appliance, I shop around on those as well. When I find what I want for the best price I buy....but I'm not buying until I have a firm grasp on the market. Sure, it's good for the store if I'm uninformed, but it's not good for me. I don't care about your profits, I care about my financial position. Period. Stop trying to justify that shit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The sales model needs to change and move away from the traditional good cop (sales guy), bad cop (sales manager), high pressure, wear down the consumer and don't let the leave the lot without a sale way it still is today. As soon as that changes, perceptions will change. The biggest reason for wanting to do business that day is because the dealership doesn't want to lose your business when you go down the street and shop them and that dealership undercuts them by $50 and they lose the sale over a stupidly insignificant amount of money. It happens daily and is honestly a shitty thing for the consumer to do. The salesman that just spent the past several hours with you showing you different vehicles and options, etc. doesn't get paid an hourly wage. He gets paid if you buy the car or not. then be competitive stop trying to justify your anti-competitive strategies by blaming the customer when your policies and prices are the cause of the lost sale. and yes, I'm going to shop every single dealership that stocks the car I want because it's stupid NOT to. I wouldn't only go to one shop looking for an appliance, I shop around on those as well. When I find what I want for the best price I buy....but I'm not buying until I have a firm grasp on the market. Sure, it's good for the store if I'm uninformed, but it's not good for me. I don't care about your profits, I care about my financial position. Period. Stop trying to justify that shit. Do you buy all your stuff at Walmart? Quoted:
I tried to buy a vehicle two years ago, both a Ford and VW. Both dealerships lied in email to get me in the door and the price was jacked by 30% or they tried to give me MSRP. I let a ford X Plan pricing number go to waste because of how much disrespect I reprieved from those lying assholes. I'm in the market again and the first dealership I email, MSRP. Fuck the dealership, even if they only make 4%. Yeah, I'm sure you only emailed one dealership each brand. More like you emailed several dealerships and you blew off the ones that gave you honest accurate numbers for ones that gave you "too good to be true" numbers and allowed yourself to be baited in. Email shoppers are the worst because they will NOT come in unless they get lied to. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:16:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I treat them the same way I treat gun dealers. If I walk in and see something I like and the price tag is fair or I am willing to pay the $ on the price tag, then I buy it. If not, then no thank you, I will keep looking. Pretty fucking simple. Waaaaay too hard for most people it seems. But if you do buy it and find it cheaper elsewhere afterwords though, that's totally the original seller's fault. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:17:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: True and I suppose CarMax adds value in other ways. No haggle does make it a much easier experience for those not willing or able to deal with a salesman. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I've had both good and bad experiences at dealerships. There are some good people in sales; but that is far from the norm in my experience. I know what I want when I go in and what I feel is a fair price to pay. What I hate are advertisements for dealers with no-haggle pricing. They say it's hassle free and the best price available is on the window. That's bullshit, especially for used car. I'm not saying I want to get a smokin' deal; but if you are 100% not budging on price I'll go to the next place that is. What do you think about Carmax? Their business model is "no haggle" and they seem to be doing fairly well. Same with Scion. For new cars, CarMax only has four dealerships, as far as I can tell. For used cars, the "no haggle" seems less important than the "no crappy cars" that seem to be the case. The problem with "no haggle" new cars is that due to the oppressive, monopolistic laws, in a lot of places, there isn't any competition. So "no haggle" just means "we've decided our profit margin--take it or don't buy this brand of car". True and I suppose CarMax adds value in other ways. No haggle does make it a much easier experience for those not willing or able to deal with a salesman. It's been probably 10 years since I have bought a car from a dealer; my last several have been privately owned. I have looked at dealers for my past few; but I'm usually looking for something specific or not typical. I guess most of my views on it are from past experiences with dealer salespeople giving me the standard lines like: "We're getting killed on this car at this price", "We have had a lot of people looking at this car so I can't go any lower", etc.., I always leave a contact# and a price and tell them to call me if they change their mind. Most of the time that car would be on the lot several months later; I guess sitting on product is more profitable than going a bit lower on price. I guess it might be different nowadays with being able to purchase a car for the best price over the internet so dealers have to put the best price out and stick to it. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:21:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have seen that one. Also don't leave your keys to get the trade in valued. They won't want to give them back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They may only make 4% on the car, but they still try to sell you "protective coatings" at 500% markup, give you crap for your trade in, screw you on the financing, and push hard that extended warranty. If you've ever added the numbers up on the contract, you have probably found that extra $500 to $1000 math "mistake". I have seen that one. Also don't leave your keys to get the trade in valued. They won't want to give them back. That is the dirtiest trick in the book. Fuckers. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:30:41 PM EDT
[#38]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n2wLlrfU89E
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:38:16 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=n2wLlrfU89E 
Came here to post this clip. Whoever wrote that movie (Suckers) obviously worked in a dealership at some point. ETA I love these threads! |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:42:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will never buy another new car or a used one from a dealership, so I don't care. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:43:18 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thats why Costco's means or avoiding everyone and just going to the Fleet ordering is so much more awesome. Heck, we even have whole dealerships hear who offer No Dicker stickers... Basically the price listed is the price. You don't like it, well there's the door. No trying to wear you down. just selling you a product. And not the hard sell. I sold cars for a few years. For what it's worth: Just FYI, the "No dicker sticker" is usually quite a bit more than you could get the car for if you did some homework and negotiated a bit. I was the Costco rep for a Honda dealership for a while. The price they use varies by region and dealership, but it's usually pretty close to the Internet price you could get just by contacting them. It's a pretty good price, but you should still do your research. Many dealerships don't even have a fleet guy. When someone calls and asks for one, they either take turns or say that the are the fleet manager. Not always, but often. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:44:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Repeal the ridiculous laws which allow dealerships to exist in the first place and let the manufacturers sell directly to people. Drive it back to the manufacturer for warranty and service.
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:45:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Car dealers make more $$$ off the used car lot, and the service dept, than selling new cars. but but but it's a stealership |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 12:52:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Eh, sorry OP, I don't think there would be as many stories posted about shitty dealers if they were as great as you want them to be. I've had a couple of shitty dealer stories, and fuck, I'm one person.
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Posted: 10/22/2014 1:22:38 PM EDT
[#45]
My friend sells cars and says they'll dump them below invoice just to sell enough in the month to get perks from the manufacturer. Sell 50 cars a month, lose a couple hundred bucks each, make it back via perks, and rape people on financing.
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Posted: 10/22/2014 3:23:15 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 You're joking right?
Losing a sale over $50-100 is being insanely competitive. If it comes down to that, don't be a dick. If the guy that just invested several hours of his life working with you provided you with a good buying experience while you were there, go back and purchase the vehicle from him. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The sales model needs to change and move away from the traditional good cop (sales guy), bad cop (sales manager), high pressure, wear down the consumer and don't let the leave the lot without a sale way it still is today. As soon as that changes, perceptions will change. The biggest reason for wanting to do business that day is because the dealership doesn't want to lose your business when you go down the street and shop them and that dealership undercuts them by $50 and they lose the sale over a stupidly insignificant amount of money. It happens daily and is honestly a shitty thing for the consumer to do. The salesman that just spent the past several hours with you showing you different vehicles and options, etc. doesn't get paid an hourly wage. He gets paid if you buy the car or not. then be competitive stop trying to justify your anti-competitive strategies by blaming the customer when your policies and prices are the cause of the lost sale. You're joking right?
Losing a sale over $50-100 is being insanely competitive. If it comes down to that, don't be a dick. If the guy that just invested several hours of his life working with you provided you with a good buying experience while you were there, go back and purchase the vehicle from him. Please explain how getting fucked is part of a "good buying experience." |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 5:18:58 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please explain how getting fucked is part of a "good buying experience." All else being equal. Same car, same interest, same options, same fees, but you bought it for $50 higher than you think you should have... $1.00 a month on a 60 month note... you're gonna lose sleep over that? Guys, be realistic. I have bought cars, and would have paid a lot more than $50 or $100 to have a smooth transaction with a salesman that really cared about my experience and had the means to support my parts and service needs for the foreseeable future. And wasn't so damned far away. And frankly, if you find $50 on a $35,000 vehicle to be despicable, the other dealership can have you, because you're only going to cause problems. So I have a question for you: When someone walks into my office and says "Give me your best price", where do I need to be? Where would YOU be if you depended on things like commission to feed your family and put a roof over your head? |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 5:21:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where would YOU be if you depended on things like commission to feed your family and put a roof over your head? The want ads. |
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Posted: 10/22/2014 5:24:02 PM EDT
[#49]
I like my car dealer. He goes to my church. I grew up with his sons. I dont mind him making a little money off me for his business. Its how the world works.
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Posted: 10/22/2014 5:24:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know where I think car dealers stand on the 'Ron White microphone stand' totem pole? Yeah..... No sympathy. Fuck stealerships. They deserve to lose money and get fucked!!! |
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