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Posted: 1/28/2012 11:03:40 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
If you read my link on the first page, you'll see that the USGS says that 6" of ash will do just that. [ And thats why the land around Mt St Helens is sterile, right? But...its not. |
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Posted: 1/28/2012 11:47:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Liked the video of Harry Truman, he may be buried, but seemed like one tough old S.O.B.
Loved the way he talked, pulled no punches! Died, the way he Lived. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 12:01:32 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you read my link on the first page, you'll see that the USGS says that 6" of ash will do just that. [ And thats why the land around Mt St Helens is sterile, right? But...its not. This is Spirit Lake five years after the eruption. The area at this point was able to support grass. 
Mount Rainier, Washington, as seen from Mount St. Helens. Spirit Lake is in the foreground. The view is from the south. USGS Photograph taken on March 11, 2005, by Steve Schilling. Granted this is from March, but I'd expect to see some conifers in there somewhere. 
Take something as precise as soil chemistry and then dump a foot of ash on top of it. That's not something you can quickly reverse. Then take into consideration that the nation's food supply depends on the area in question and you have a pretty significant problem. Mt St Helens was a small eruption. The Yosemite caldera is pushing 50 km x 40 km and will likely drop a foot of ash into Utah, Colorado, and the western edge of Nebraska. If you want to say it won't happen in the next ten lifetimes, that's a fair retort to the usual GD doom-and-gloomery. But let's be realistic about what will happen when it does go. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 12:06:10 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
What would happen? Is it a survivable catastrophy or instantanious death for most americans? In my mind this would create the ultimate SHTF scenario for anyone not instantly killed. Not only here in America but worldwide. Ever see or read The Road. It has been hypothesised by many that this was the event and results that Mcarthy envisions. Also has been hypothosised as the event the wiped out the Dino's, so safe to say I think that the phase "We are fucked" comes to mind as a pretty good answer. J- Mr. Owl says hoo hoo raptor hoo 
ETA: I wonder how much of america would be irradiated from blown up reactors. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 12:06:51 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Basically, we'd all be fucked. If not from the eruption or its aftereffects, then from having California become the new US capitol. Fuck that bullshit. If only the south survives we might just sell it to mexico for the fuck of it. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 12:16:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you read my link on the first page, you'll see that the USGS says that 6" of ash will do just that. [ And thats why the land around Mt St Helens is sterile, right? But...its not. This is Spirit Lake five years after the eruption. The area at this point was able to support grass. http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000iXTBuXgxCds/s/750/750/85HEL-01-24-Mt-St-Helens-Spirit-Lake-Norway-Pass.jpg Mount Rainier, Washington, as seen from Mount St. Helens. Spirit Lake is in the foreground. The view is from the south. USGS Photograph taken on March 11, 2005, by Steve Schilling. Granted this is from March, but I'd expect to see some conifers in there somewhere. http://www.washingtonstatesearch.com/Washington_Pictures/Mt_Saint_Helens/photographs/Mount_St_Helens_Crater_and_Spirit_Lake_03-11-05.jpg Take something as precise as soil chemistry and then dump a foot of ash on top of it. That's not something you can quickly reverse. Then take into consideration that the nation's food supply depends on the area in question and you have a pretty significant problem. Mt St Helens was a small eruption. The Yosemite caldera is pushing 50 km x 40 km and will likely drop a foot of ash into Utah, Colorado, and the western edge of Nebraska. If you want to say it won't happen in the next ten lifetimes, that's a fair retort to the usual GD doom-and-gloomery. But let's be realistic about what will happen when it does go. From what I've read about the Mt St Helens area, its recovering. Does it happen overnight in human terms? No. That hardly means its sterile. I'm sure that Yellowstone would be a big event, but I don't believe the whole "it'll wipe out the US for all posterity" hysteria. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/05/mount-st-helens/blast-zone-animation |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 12:21:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: I can see how a mountainside wont recover from the ash. I think farmers would likely go out and till up their dirt though and plant some shit that grows in low light if need be.Quoted: Quoted: If you read my link on the first page, you'll see that the USGS says that 6" of ash will do just that. [ And thats why the land around Mt St Helens is sterile, right? But...its not. This is Spirit Lake five years after the eruption. The area at this point was able to support grass. http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000iXTBuXgxCds/s/750/750/85HEL-01-24-Mt-St-Helens-Spirit-Lake-Norway-Pass.jpg Mount Rainier, Washington, as seen from Mount St. Helens. Spirit Lake is in the foreground. The view is from the south. USGS Photograph taken on March 11, 2005, by Steve Schilling. Granted this is from March, but I'd expect to see some conifers in there somewhere. http://www.washingtonstatesearch.com/Washington_Pictures/Mt_Saint_Helens/photographs/Mount_St_Helens_Crater_and_Spirit_Lake_03-11-05.jpg Take something as precise as soil chemistry and then dump a foot of ash on top of it. That's not something you can quickly reverse. Then take into consideration that the nation's food supply depends on the area in question and you have a pretty significant problem. Mt St Helens was a small eruption. The Yosemite caldera is pushing 50 km x 40 km and will likely drop a foot of ash into Utah, Colorado, and the western edge of Nebraska. If you want to say it won't happen in the next ten lifetimes, that's a fair retort to the usual GD doom-and-gloomery. But let's be realistic about what will happen when it does go. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 12:46:16 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you read my link on the first page, you'll see that the USGS says that 6" of ash will do just that. [ And thats why the land around Mt St Helens is sterile, right? But...its not. This is Spirit Lake five years after the eruption. The area at this point was able to support grass. http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000iXTBuXgxCds/s/750/750/85HEL-01-24-Mt-St-Helens-Spirit-Lake-Norway-Pass.jpg Mount Rainier, Washington, as seen from Mount St. Helens. Spirit Lake is in the foreground. The view is from the south. USGS Photograph taken on March 11, 2005, by Steve Schilling. Granted this is from March, but I'd expect to see some conifers in there somewhere. http://www.washingtonstatesearch.com/Washington_Pictures/Mt_Saint_Helens/photographs/Mount_St_Helens_Crater_and_Spirit_Lake_03-11-05.jpg Take something as precise as soil chemistry and then dump a foot of ash on top of it. That's not something you can quickly reverse. Then take into consideration that the nation's food supply depends on the area in question and you have a pretty significant problem. Mt St Helens was a small eruption. The Yosemite caldera is pushing 50 km x 40 km and will likely drop a foot of ash into Utah, Colorado, and the western edge of Nebraska. If you want to say it won't happen in the next ten lifetimes, that's a fair retort to the usual GD doom-and-gloomery. But let's be realistic about what will happen when it does go. From what I've read about the Mt St Helens area, its recovering. Does it happen overnight in human terms? No. That hardly means its sterile. I'm sure that Yellowstone would be a big event, but I don't believe the whole "it'll wipe out the US for all posterity" hysteria. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/05/mount-st-helens/blast-zone-animation Right, and i should clarify what I meant by that. There are a lot of plants that depend on certain microbes being present in the ground in order to thrive. Six inches of ash will effectively seal off the ground from the atmosphere and "sterilize" the soil. That doesn't mean it won't ever recover. My take is that in the worst case scenario, many of the breadbasket states will lose a substantial part of that year's crop, and will need to do a lot of plowing, watering, and fertilizing to make the soil usable. I don't know farming or chemistry well enough to offer an intelligent estimate, but it seems unlikely that it would happen within a single year. Also remember that all of the plowing, watering, and fertilizing has to happen with OIF style preventative maintenance to keep tractors and aircraft from seizing up, and respirators for vehicle operators. That kind of heavy lift in the current economy would suck. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 12:53:33 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: the economy will withstand a just cause like that though. A few hundred billion dollars would be thrown at it gladly by all Americans . It would suck but I think it would be fixed in very short order. Hell we survived a WASTED trillion on the stimulus. I think another trillion to make sure we have food would be okay.Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you read my link on the first page, you'll see that the USGS says that 6" of ash will do just that. [ And thats why the land around Mt St Helens is sterile, right? But...its not. This is Spirit Lake five years after the eruption. The area at this point was able to support grass. http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000iXTBuXgxCds/s/750/750/85HEL-01-24-Mt-St-Helens-Spirit-Lake-Norway-Pass.jpg Mount Rainier, Washington, as seen from Mount St. Helens. Spirit Lake is in the foreground. The view is from the south. USGS Photograph taken on March 11, 2005, by Steve Schilling. Granted this is from March, but I'd expect to see some conifers in there somewhere. http://www.washingtonstatesearch.com/Washington_Pictures/Mt_Saint_Helens/photographs/Mount_St_Helens_Crater_and_Spirit_Lake_03-11-05.jpg Take something as precise as soil chemistry and then dump a foot of ash on top of it. That's not something you can quickly reverse. Then take into consideration that the nation's food supply depends on the area in question and you have a pretty significant problem. Mt St Helens was a small eruption. The Yosemite caldera is pushing 50 km x 40 km and will likely drop a foot of ash into Utah, Colorado, and the western edge of Nebraska. If you want to say it won't happen in the next ten lifetimes, that's a fair retort to the usual GD doom-and-gloomery. But let's be realistic about what will happen when it does go. From what I've read about the Mt St Helens area, its recovering. Does it happen overnight in human terms? No. That hardly means its sterile. I'm sure that Yellowstone would be a big event, but I don't believe the whole "it'll wipe out the US for all posterity" hysteria. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/05/mount-st-helens/blast-zone-animation Right, and i should clarify what I meant by that. There are a lot of plants that depend on certain microbes being present in the ground in order to thrive. Six inches of ash will effectively seal off the ground from the atmosphere and "sterilize" the soil. That doesn't mean it won't ever recover. My take is that in the worst case scenario, many of the breadbasket states will lose a substantial part of that year's crop, and will need to do a lot of plowing, watering, and fertilizing to make the soil usable. I don't know farming or chemistry well enough to offer an intelligent estimate, but it seems unlikely that it would happen within a single year. Also remember that all of the plowing, watering, and fertilizing has to happen with OIF style preventative maintenance to keep tractors and aircraft from seizing up, and respirators for vehicle operators. That kind of heavy lift in the current economy would suck. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 1:03:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
I think I could safely say goodbye to my mom & stepdad in southeast Idaho, my sister & family in Utah and my brother & family in southern Wyoming.
The ash typically reaches from MT to the Mississippi and down to TX. Areas to the West are left untouched due to prevailing winds. The temperature of the earth might drop a couple degrees for a few years. So, food would become expensive and America would be in a world of hurt. It wouldn't be a mass extinction event though, unless the rest of the world decides to take advantage of us in our moment of weakness. I recall Mt St Helens eruption in 1980. I was in northern Wyoming then and the sky was hazy, the ash fell and got imbedded in window wells of cars and each time you would roll your windows up or down the pumice would scratch the hell out of the windows. No amount of putting the car wash wand down there helped........thus car windows in our town were scratched. If the caldera let loose in Yellowstone, you can bet we would all be pretty much screwed........it's hundreds of times bigger than St Helens. 
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Posted: 1/29/2012 1:04:13 AM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
I will not get to live out my SHTF dreams. Lives outside of yellowstone  Cody?????? 
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Posted: 1/29/2012 1:06:27 AM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
my mom and stepdad are in SE Idaho and have a place up in Island Park Idaho. That places comes to me, my brother and sister when my folks are gone......Lord, I wanna be able to go back up there again!! It's 33 miles from West Yellowstone, MT
I'd be dead thats for sure |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 1:08:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
the economy will withstand a just cause like that though. A few hundred billion dollars would be thrown at it gladly by all Americans . It would suck but I think it would be fixed in very short order. Hell we survived a WASTED trillion on the stimulus. I think another trillion to make sure we have food would be okay. Fair enough. I don't think it's a death sentence for the country either, but I think that ruling out some sort of perfect storm of economics, politics, and weather would be a "failure of imagination". GD's got plenty of imagination though. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 1:08:48 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
yes, this map shows me that my whole family would be GONE......
If Yellowstone has an eruption with close to it's historical magnitude, we're fucked. Either quickly, or slowly starving. West of the Mississippi and all the way to SoCal, there will be ash covering everything. How long were European flights grounded by the Iceland volcano? Relief flights into the U.S. would face the same thing. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/bytor94/Yellowstonevolcanoashbeds.jpg Lord have mercy. 
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Posted: 1/29/2012 1:15:03 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Quoted:
yes, this map shows me that my whole family would be GONE......
If Yellowstone has an eruption with close to it's historical magnitude, we're fucked. Either quickly, or slowly starving. West of the Mississippi and all the way to SoCal, there will be ash covering everything. How long were European flights grounded by the Iceland volcano? Relief flights into the U.S. would face the same thing. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/bytor94/Yellowstonevolcanoashbeds.jpg Lord have mercy.
They would get a lot of ash, but they would have a few days warning, and they could get to safety easier by going west than the people who are to the east. Just make sure they don't pull a Truman. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 2:38:42 AM EDT
[#16]
Leave yo wimenz with me. They will be safe here in NY.
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Posted: 1/29/2012 2:40:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Leave yo wimenz with me. They will be safe here in NY. Until the ghetto goblins rush over the George Washington bridge because they need their eats yo. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 2:45:04 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Leave yo wimenz with me. They will be safe here in NY. Until the ghetto goblins rush over the George Washington bridge because they need their eats yo. Thats 4 hours away. They wouldn't make it far. Some of you must think NYS is the size of RI |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 2:53:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Leave yo wimenz with me. They will be safe here in NY. Until the ghetto goblins rush over the George Washington bridge because they need their eats yo. Thats 4 hours away. They wouldn't make it far. Some of you must think NYS is the size of RI  Yes I live in NY and I think its the size of rhode island
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Posted: 1/29/2012 2:59:08 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Yes I live in NY and I think its the size of rhode island Not exactly. How often do you drive across this state? |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:07:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yes I live in NY and I think its the size of rhode island Not exactly. How often do you drive across this state? I don't see how my traveling habits have anything to do with my grasp of geography. The ghetto goblins can drive you see. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:14:15 AM EDT
[#22]
Even this the US would withstand IMO but I do wonder what would happen to the nuclear power plants in the impacted area. If they could be kept running and the grid survives they become an asset for recovery perhaps.
So...glass half-full me says: New Homestead Act west of the Mississippi at some point as conditions allow but sooner rather than later (1000 acres and a big a–– John Deere is the cry heard in Congress) Farmland east of the Mississippi River not in production when the balloon goes up goes back into production Rebirth of cross country railroads to augment the newly formed east and west coast not-so-long haul truck fleets Some sections of the central US revert to a buffalo common. Hunting is excellent. Massive expansion of the small aircraft industry as private individuals take to the air in unanticipated numbers. Fly-over country becomes fly and fly and fly and the fly some more over country The construction and housing industries are revolutionized by the discovery that bricks made of volcanic ash are stronger than clay bricks and only cost 3 cents to make. With fewer drivers and fewer miles to drive the US becomes energy self-sufficient. Tennessee and North Carolina chapters on the Smokey Mountain Elk Foundation establish successful herds in the Rocky Mountains. Relaxed environmental laws in the most CF'd areas allow new oil refineries to be built and discoveries of new oil reserves from wells in areas that were previously off-limits fire an industrial resurgence that reinstates the US to its previous position of 1950-style world economic dominance. Americans flying home in the family Piper or Cessna from successful Elk and Buffalo hunting vacations out west look down on it all and smile BTW what the hell is a low light plant? Cave moss??? fisherman |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:14:45 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
I don't see how my traveling habits have anything to do with my grasp of geography. The ghetto goblins can drive you see. They're 4 hours away and a good per centage of them don't have cars. They need to get through a lot of ground to even get to my area. I questioned your trvaelling habits because you consider NYS to be the same size as RI. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:17:17 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I don't see how my traveling habits have anything to do with my grasp of geography. The ghetto goblins can drive you see. They're 4 hours away and a good per centage of them don't have cars. They need to get through a lot of ground to even get to my area. I questioned your trvaelling habits because you consider NYS to be the same size as RI. lol Where did I say it was the size of Rhode Island? You assumed. If they want out of NYC they can get out. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:20:50 AM EDT
[#25]
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Quoted:
lol Where did I say it was the size of Rhode Island? You assumed. If they want out of NYC they can get out. You said you think its the size of RI. of course they can get out, but the locusts will be suffering a war of attrition when they move North, and the 200 miles they need to cover to get here will thin them out considerably |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:22:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
[span style='font-weight: bold;']Quoted:
lol Where did I say it was the size of Rhode Island? You assumed. If they want out of NYC they can get out. You said you think its the size of RI. of course they can get out, but the locusts will be suffering a war of attrition when they move North, and the 200 miles they need to cover to get here will thin them out considerably Oh jeez you were accusing me of thinking it was and i was giving you a raised eyebrow response that was sarcastic. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:36:28 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: If Yellowstone has an eruption with close to it's historical magnitude, we're fucked. Either quickly, or slowly starving. West of the Mississippi and all the way to SoCal, there will be ash covering everything. How long were European flights grounded by the Iceland volcano? Relief flights into the U.S. would face the same thing. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/bytor94/Yellowstonevolcanoashbeds.jpg Good thing that the US doesn't produce 45% of the world's corn, 50% of it's total soy beans, or 20% of global wheat production....oh, wait a minute. I'm not sure we'd be seeing a huge queue of relief flights waiting for clear weather in the US to land....foreign nations might have to worry about feeding their own, first. Global crop yields are going to be impacted for several years by an erruption of this magnitude. It might be something like one big global North Korea for a year or two. But, I've read North Korea is Best Korea, so maybe it won't be so bad, right? |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:47:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Quoted: You talk like none of that stuff would be rebuilt in a priority status, and even if some crops were affected for a year or so, the bulk of the land would be back into production the next year. Its not like a volcano magically renders land sterile. If you read my link on the first page, you'll see that the USGS says that 6" of ash will do just that. Very thick burial (> 150 mm ash) All non-woody plants are buried. Burial will sterilize soil profile by isolation from oxygen. Soil burial is complete and there is no communication from the buried soil to the new ash surface. Soil formation must begin from this new "time zero." Several hundred (to a few thousand years) may pass before new equilibrium soil is established, but plants can grow within years to decades. I won't fucking quit. I have people to feed and all of the defeatists can go starve, I'll work on fixing it.
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:51:38 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you read my link on the first page, you'll see that the USGS says that 6" of ash will do just that. [ And thats why the land around Mt St Helens is sterile, right? But...its not. This is Spirit Lake five years after the eruption. The area at this point was able to support grass. http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000iXTBuXgxCds/s/750/750/85HEL-01-24-Mt-St-Helens-Spirit-Lake-Norway-Pass.jpg Mount Rainier, Washington, as seen from Mount St. Helens. Spirit Lake is in the foreground. The view is from the south. USGS Photograph taken on March 11, 2005, by Steve Schilling. Granted this is from March, but I'd expect to see some conifers in there somewhere. http://www.washingtonstatesearch.com/Washington_Pictures/Mt_Saint_Helens/photographs/Mount_St_Helens_Crater_and_Spirit_Lake_03-11-05.jpg Take something as precise as soil chemistry and then dump a foot of ash on top of it. That's not something you can quickly reverse. Then take into consideration that the nation's food supply depends on the area in question and you have a pretty significant problem. Mt St Helens was a small eruption. The Yosemite caldera is pushing 50 km x 40 km and will likely drop a foot of ash into Utah, Colorado, and the western edge of Nebraska. If you want to say it won't happen in the next ten lifetimes, that's a fair retort to the usual GD doom-and-gloomery. But let's be realistic about what will happen when it does go. From what I've read about the Mt St Helens area, its recovering. Does it happen overnight in human terms? No. That hardly means its sterile. I'm sure that Yellowstone would be a big event, but I don't believe the whole "it'll wipe out the US for all posterity" hysteria. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/05/mount-st-helens/blast-zone-animation Right, and i should clarify what I meant by that. There are a lot of plants that depend on certain microbes being present in the ground in order to thrive. Six inches of ash will effectively seal off the ground from the atmosphere and "sterilize" the soil. That doesn't mean it won't ever recover. My take is that in the worst case scenario, many of the breadbasket states will lose a substantial part of that year's crop, and will need to do a lot of plowing, watering, and fertilizing to make the soil usable. I don't know farming or chemistry well enough to offer an intelligent estimate, but it seems unlikely that it would happen within a single year. Also remember that all of the plowing, watering, and fertilizing has to happen with OIF style preventative maintenance to keep tractors and aircraft from seizing up, and respirators for vehicle operators. That kind of heavy lift in the current economy would suck. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 4:11:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
Oh jeez you were accusing me of thinking it was and i was giving you a raised eyebrow response that was sarcastic. I saw that as more of an angry scowling face. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 4:12:13 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Oh jeez you were accusing me of thinking it was and i was giving you a raised eyebrow response that was sarcastic. I saw that as more of an angry scowling face. I consider it a wtf face myself. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 4:31:11 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Basically, we'd all be fucked. If not from the eruption or its aftereffects, then from having California become the new US capitol. This. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 4:37:52 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you read my link on the first page, you'll see that the USGS says that 6" of ash will do just that. [ And thats why the land around Mt St Helens is sterile, right? But...its not. This is Spirit Lake five years after the eruption. The area at this point was able to support grass. http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000iXTBuXgxCds/s/750/750/85HEL-01-24-Mt-St-Helens-Spirit-Lake-Norway-Pass.jpg Mount Rainier, Washington, as seen from Mount St. Helens. Spirit Lake is in the foreground. The view is from the south. USGS Photograph taken on March 11, 2005, by Steve Schilling. Granted this is from March, but I'd expect to see some conifers in there somewhere. http://www.washingtonstatesearch.com/Washington_Pictures/Mt_Saint_Helens/photographs/Mount_St_Helens_Crater_and_Spirit_Lake_03-11-05.jpg Take something as precise as soil chemistry and then dump a foot of ash on top of it. That's not something you can quickly reverse. Then take into consideration that the nation's food supply depends on the area in question and you have a pretty significant problem. Mt St Helens was a small eruption. The Yosemite caldera is pushing 50 km x 40 km and will likely drop a foot of ash into Utah, Colorado, and the western edge of Nebraska. If you want to say it won't happen in the next ten lifetimes, that's a fair retort to the usual GD doom-and-gloomery. But let's be realistic about what will happen when it does go. Spirit Lake is right next to the mountain and got way more than a foot of ash. You've been eating potatoes grown in WA from places that got 6" or more since a year after the event. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 4:57:36 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
I have a degree in Agronomy and I see it as a challenge but nothing that is going to redline us for long. The economics of farming are radically different when survival is on the line. Good. I'm genuinely curious, so don't take this as me being an argumentative dick, but do you have any concrete ideas or data on how to shortcut the process? The economics may be different, but the science isn't. Let's say a hypothetical two inches of ash. Could you till it deep enough into the ground, "diluting" it to the point that it wouldn't affect the soil or its productivity? Would it affect pH like wood ash does? I imagine if you turned a field into a giant compost heap it would turn things around pretty quickly, but I just can't imagine what you could do to millions of acres of fields. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:04:48 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Spirit Lake is right next to the mountain and got way more than a foot of ash. You've been eating potatoes grown in WA from places that got 6" or more since a year after the event. Potatoes grow well in that stuff. Idaho potatoes are growing in what's left over from previous calderas, or so I've heard. But this is why I'm curious about the impact on soil. If ash is just a bunch of tiny little rocks, you can grow plants in it. I guess it's just a question of which plants and how soon. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:16:46 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Spirit Lake is right next to the mountain and got way more than a foot of ash. You've been eating potatoes grown in WA from places that got 6" or more since a year after the event. Potatoes grow well in that stuff. Idaho potatoes are growing in what's left over from previous calderas, or so I've heard. But this is why I'm curious about the impact on soil. If ash is just a bunch of tiny little rocks, you can grow plants in it. I guess it's just a question of which plants and how soon. Potatoes are the biggest crop here, but in the same areas they grew onions, lots of wheat and corn, lots of beans, etc. They didn't change what they were growing. That ash was just a speed bump and in the end it turned out to be good for the soil. What we saw was a micro-model of what Yellowstone would be. The problem will be in areas where they get more than a few feet (substantial area), it either will have to be removed or new top soil would need to be brought in to put on top of it. When you see the foot print of previous eruptions, much of the area on the outer edges just got a little bit. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:18:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Some of us in Georgia would be willing to let you westerners dump some of your extra ash on ...err....in the City of Atlanta.
roy d...we'd like to do our part to help
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:20:46 AM EDT
[#38]
Don't worry NY is one of the biggest growers of onions
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:26:22 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: What would happen? Is it a survivable catastrophy or instantanious death for most americans? In my mind this would create the ultimate SHTF scenario for anyone not instantly killed. Not only here in America but worldwide. I'll let you know, I'm staying there this week. m
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:26:27 AM EDT
[#40]
Shit. Another thread making me feel under-prepared. Back to BJ's for another pallet of Dinty Moore and Ramen....
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:27:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Shit. Another thread making me feel under-prepared. Back to BJ's for another pallet of Dinty Moore and Ramen.... How are you going to cook that with ash in the water 
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:37:51 AM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: The ARFCOMERs living west of the Mississippi that have been thinking they were in good shape for SHTF will really be disappointed because they would be the first to go. The ones living east of the Mississippi will be happy as horseshit that their SHTF day has finally arrived. At least they would be that way until they got really hungry a few months later. The eruption would destroy the US as a first world country. It would mostly throw the world into a major depression. Between the economic loss and a few years of reduced crop growth due to cooling there would be at least a billion deaths world wide, if not more. It would probably take the US 100 years to recover, if ever. The eruption would not directly kill that many people in the west, maybe only a few hundred thousand. The rest would be refugees to the east and NW. Disease and starvation would come in the east for a few years. At least half if not 2/3rd of the people in the US would die over time as result. The rest of the world would have their own problems so don't expect relief. This is not the SHTF we want. I resemble that remark . |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:39:59 AM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Quoted: Alarmist Scientist are alarmist because they need another grant from uncle sugar. Heart disease, car accidents, and cancer will get all of y'all before a volcano does. Tell that to Harry Truman next time you travel to Mt St Helens  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhvfM3CNxeY&feature=relatedOh wait, you can't..he is buried 150 feet down Quoted: The ARFCOMERs living west of the Mississippi that have been thinking they were in good shape for SHTF will really be disappointed because they would be the first to go. The ones living east of the Mississippi will be happy as horseshit that their SHTF day has finally arrived. At least they would be that way until they got really hungry a few months later. The eruption would destroy the US as a first world country. It would mostly throw the world into a major depression. Between the economic loss and a few years of reduced crop growth due to cooling there would be at least a billion deaths world wide, if not more. It would probably take the US 100 years to recover, if ever. The eruption would not directly kill that many people in the west, maybe only a few hundred thousand. The rest would be refugees to the east and NW. Disease and starvation would come in the east for a few years. At least half if not 2/3rd of the people in the US would die over time as result. The rest of the world would have their own problems so don't expect relief. This is not the SHTF we want. Sorry, but I dont think it'd be the end you foresee. Things might be rough for a bit, but I don't see it being any worse than any other single volcanic explosion. I still remember the ash on the vehicles from a small volcanic explosion 2 good-sized states away  . |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:48:04 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Thought there was an 'Alert' on this a few years ago? I do remember (not looking it up now) in the early '90's or so, when there was the huge forest fire. I woke up early on a Sunday morning and remember the sky being a brownish-yellow haze, and could smell it. All the way in SW PA. ETA, looked it up, started June, 1988. Worst wild fires Yellowstone ever had. Yep, 2 million acres burned. We lived in a orange, surreal world that whole summer. Burned my traditional elk hunting area as well, but it turned out to be better hunting after a few years, easier to spot them. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:56:49 AM EDT
[#45]
So. . . .stock up on air filters––for human and automotive use––-and I mean really stock up, . . . AND invest in companies that manufacture said filters. . .
Got it. . . .Anything else? |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 5:59:45 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
It would be like..... http://www.futuregamez.net/movies/2012/20122.jpg Oh yeah....Virginia wins again.  For the first time. Wv/va wouldn't be so bad |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 6:00:49 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would miss the geyser "Old Faithful." Seriously, if it happens, it happens; there is nothing humans can do to prevent it. Look what happen to Mt. St. Helens. I have ashes I picked up from Mt. St. Helen's. I failed as I didn't have a camera.  I was 5 years old and I stood in my drive way in Hillsboro, Oregon and watched it happen. I didn't quite understand what was happening but I remember seeing the ash cloud rising up into the sky and being very scared. I also remember playing in what seemed like 2 feet of ash while wearing a surgical mask. It was fun for a 5 year old. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 6:05:16 AM EDT
[#48]
Greetings from The Humungus! The Lord Humungus! The Warrior of the Wasteland! The Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla!
Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the Wasteland. Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror. Yeah, if the Yellowstone caldera let's loose, we'd see a sizable reduction in the world's population. Starvation's a shitty way to go. |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 6:15:56 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: Basically, we'd all be fucked. If not from the eruption or its aftereffects, then from having California become the new US capitol. Say's the guy from New York |
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Posted: 1/29/2012 3:25:11 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: If Yellowstone has an eruption with close to it's historical magnitude, we're fucked. Either quickly, or slowly starving. West of the Mississippi and all the way to SoCal, there will be ash covering everything. How long were European flights grounded by the Iceland volcano? Relief flights into the U.S. would face the same thing. http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/bytor94/Yellowstonevolcanoashbeds.jpg In order to draw any conclusions, we would need to know what that map represents. Is could be that the majority of the area only has a nuisance amount of ash. Look at the Mt St. Helens area. People died at Mt. St. Helens, but they were mostly on the mountain and were killed by the initial explosion or the very hot gases and ash immediately near it. They had no warning. As you get farther from an eruption, cooling occurs. It also takes time for ash to travel. So many people would be able to take some precautions. Depending on the duration of the event, and the density of the ash, some people in that zone may be screwed, but I suspect that a large portion of the area shown would be dealing with something that is survivable. |
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