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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:32:13 AM EDT
[#1]
You are asking two separate and unrelated questions. Terry Schiavo was a mercy killing. She was not on life support. No plug was pulled. She had basic necessities withheld from her against her will.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:33:21 AM EDT
[#2]
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You are asking two separate and unrelated questions. Terry Schiavo was a mercy killing. She was not on life support. No plug was pulled. She had basic necessities withheld from her against her will. When did she make her "will" clear? |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:35:56 AM EDT
[#3]
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The parents had no standing. It should have been a non-issue. Correct. If I were doing the DNR and withdrawal, the parents would have no say. We ran into a situation where a doctor was listening to input from the decision maker and some also some close family. Total cluster fuck because she didn't know the law. ( Flame suit on: We lost a whole person full of organs over that.) |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:39:26 AM EDT
[#4]
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Correct. If I were doing the DNR and withdrawal, the parents would have no say. We ran into a situation where a doctor was listening to input from the decision maker and some also some close family. Total cluster fuck because she didn't know the law. ( Flame suit on: We lost a whole person full of organs over that.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The parents had no standing. It should have been a non-issue. Correct. If I were doing the DNR and withdrawal, the parents would have no say. We ran into a situation where a doctor was listening to input from the decision maker and some also some close family. Total cluster fuck because she didn't know the law. ( Flame suit on: We lost a whole person full of organs over that.) OMGWTFBBQ...when you put organ donor on your ID card..the doc won't work hard enough to save you...because they want to get the organs! |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:44:23 AM EDT
[#5]
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We accept passive euthanasia...but not assisted euthanasia. And that is wrong. When a soldier puts the anchor shot in the enemy rather than providing assistance...did he just murder someone? Yes When someone decides how they want to die, who are you to tell them they can't do it a certain way they see fit? Right is right and wrong is wrong. "Want" isn't everything. The right to life inherently means the right to death. You can't have life without death. Oh come on you know that's BS. What does it even mean?? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Absolutely not. Never. It is murder, and murder is wrong. End of story. This doesn't have to be complex. We accept passive euthanasia...but not assisted euthanasia. And that is wrong. When a soldier puts the anchor shot in the enemy rather than providing assistance...did he just murder someone? Yes When someone decides how they want to die, who are you to tell them they can't do it a certain way they see fit? Right is right and wrong is wrong. "Want" isn't everything. The right to life inherently means the right to death. You can't have life without death. Oh come on you know that's BS. What does it even mean?? |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:47:48 AM EDT
[#6]
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Correct. If I were doing the DNR and withdrawal, the parents would have no say. We ran into a situation where a doctor was listening to input from the decision maker and some also some close family. Total cluster fuck because she didn't know the law. ( Flame suit on: We lost a whole person full of organs over that.) Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The parents had no standing. It should have been a non-issue. Correct. If I were doing the DNR and withdrawal, the parents would have no say. We ran into a situation where a doctor was listening to input from the decision maker and some also some close family. Total cluster fuck because she didn't know the law. ( Flame suit on: We lost a whole person full of organs over that.) And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:48:31 AM EDT
[#7]
So far I've seen 4 or 5 people claim he beat her or tried to kill her and yet not a single one has produced anything to back that up.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 8:50:25 AM EDT
[#8]
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And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The parents had no standing. It should have been a non-issue. Correct. If I were doing the DNR and withdrawal, the parents would have no say. We ran into a situation where a doctor was listening to input from the decision maker and some also some close family. Total cluster fuck because she didn't know the law. ( Flame suit on: We lost a whole person full of organs over that.) And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. 
The first thing the doctor checks before working on you is your donor card. If they see you are a donor, they immediately start the harvest. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:15:46 AM EDT
[#9]
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And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. *shakes head* No... that's NOT the way it works. I hate to take away anybody's paranoia (because we all love to bask in the warm glow of our own assumptions), but NOBODY in the acute-care environment even thinks about parting-you-out for your organs. That issue is not even on our radar. At all. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:21:58 AM EDT
[#10]
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*shakes head* No... that's NOT the way it works. I hate to take away anybody's paranoia (because we all love to bask in the warm glow of our own assumptions), but NOBODY in the acute-care environment even thinks about parting-you-out for your organs. That issue is not even on our radar. At all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. *shakes head* No... that's NOT the way it works. I hate to take away anybody's paranoia (because we all love to bask in the warm glow of our own assumptions), but NOBODY in the acute-care environment even thinks about parting-you-out for your organs. That issue is not even on our radar. At all. No kidding. That said I wouldn't mind seeing it where only organ donors are eligible to receive organs from the system. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:24:26 AM EDT
[#11]
I don't know, but I came up with a very tasteless joke a little while back. The only thing it was missing was my remembering of her name for the punch line.
I'm going to hell. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:33:06 AM EDT
[#12]
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Major brain damage to the point that you will be permanently be a vegetable with no chance of ever regaining consciousness is perfectly fine with me as a line. It was going to be impossible for her to have any quality of life, only quantity of it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This does not look brain dead to me. Husband already had a new girl and wanted the insurance money. Parents offered divorce and he said "NO" 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbNLchN3JQEI like how he is giving all of the commands while the big shiny balloon that is moving where he's "telling her where to look" happens to be is out of frame. This video shows she isn't brain dead as much as a video of sunflowers following the sun shows that they are conscious. I guess my definition of brain dead differs then. Wether shes following a balloon or whatever it seems that there has to be some activity there for that to happen hence she isnt tottaly brain dead. I dont disagree with pulling the plug on someone who is brain dead, no activity,no response to any stimuli,organs wont function,etc. But I still contend that she had major brain damage and that changes the argument to wether people agree with mercy killing or not. That is a much more uncomfortable argument for most people so they console themselves with the brain dead excuse instead. Major brain damage to the point that you will be permanently be a vegetable with no chance of ever regaining consciousness is perfectly fine with me as a line. It was going to be impossible for her to have any quality of life, only quantity of it. This argument is a two-edged sword. If she's vegetative to the point where starving her to death isn't cruel, then quality of life isn't a consideration. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:40:13 AM EDT
[#13]
I don't think anyone should die from starvation in a hospital. Dogs and death row inmates have easier deaths than being starved to death.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:46:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Keeping brain dead people on life support is idiotic and a monstrous burden on the healthcare system. 1) They are brain dead. You are forcing the hospital to keep a sack of meat breathing when it would not be able to do so on its own, for no reason whatsoever other than clinging to your loved one. 2) It costs millions upon millions of dollars, and the rest of us end up subsidizing it.
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:47:52 AM EDT
[#15]
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And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The parents had no standing. It should have been a non-issue. Correct. If I were doing the DNR and withdrawal, the parents would have no say. We ran into a situation where a doctor was listening to input from the decision maker and some also some close family. Total cluster fuck because she didn't know the law. ( Flame suit on: We lost a whole person full of organs over that.) And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. That's not at all how it works, but whatevs. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:50:13 AM EDT
[#16]
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I don't think anyone should die from starvation in a hospital. Dogs and death row inmates have easier deaths than being starved to death. Which is why I am perfectly fine with allowing Drs to administer a lethal dose in the case of total brain death. Just give nature an assist. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:50:43 AM EDT
[#17]
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No kidding. That said I wouldn't mind seeing it where only organ donors are eligible to receive organs from the system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. *shakes head* No... that's NOT the way it works. I hate to take away anybody's paranoia (because we all love to bask in the warm glow of our own assumptions), but NOBODY in the acute-care environment even thinks about parting-you-out for your organs. That issue is not even on our radar. At all. No kidding. That said I wouldn't mind seeing it where only organ donors are eligible to receive organs from the system. Wow. Just wow.
So much for the Hippocratic oath I guess. 
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:53:03 AM EDT
[#18]
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*shakes head* No... that's NOT the way it works. I hate to take away anybody's paranoia (because we all love to bask in the warm glow of our own assumptions), but NOBODY in the acute-care environment even thinks about parting-you-out for your organs. That issue is not even on our radar. At all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. *shakes head* No... that's NOT the way it works. I hate to take away anybody's paranoia (because we all love to bask in the warm glow of our own assumptions), but NOBODY in the acute-care environment even thinks about parting-you-out for your organs. That issue is not even on our radar. At all. Maybe not for you, but I've heard enough stories and seen enough things to have my doubts. It most DEFINITELY plays a part in the doctor's advice for care. And with the euthanasia stuff these days, the structures are in place for some pretty scary stuff. The medical world is the one arena that scares me more than the political. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:55:17 AM EDT
[#19]
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Keeping brain dead people on life support is idiotic and a monstrous burden on the healthcare system. 1) They are brain dead. You are forcing the hospital to keep a sack of meat breathing when it would not be able to do so on its own, for no reason whatsoever other than clinging to your loved one. 2) It costs millions upon millions of dollars, and the rest of us end up subsidizing it. Medical Point: She wasn't brain-dead. Brain-dead is considered legally dead... and those folks are unplugged all the time, with few legal problems. Schiavo was a PVS (persistent vegetative state). Her conscious "mind" was long-gone, but enough of her neurons were still firing in her brainstem that she could breathe. She was completely dependent on others for everything else. That aside, the larger discussion is a valid one, and worthy of debate. At what point do we value "quality" of life over "quantity?" Who pays? When is "enough" enough? Who decides? Once the government is paying for everything, I can guarantee those questions will be answered FOR you... not BY you. And they'll be based on cold, hard economics. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 10:59:22 AM EDT
[#20]
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Maybe not for you, but I've heard enough stories and seen enough things to have my doubts. It most DEFINITELY plays a part in the doctor's advice for care. And with the euthanasia stuff these days, the structures are in place for some pretty scary stuff. The medical world is the one arena that scares me more than the political. Then why even want come to the hospital? Seriously... if you're that paranoid, why bother to engage modern medicine at all? I'm telling you, with >20 years in the ER, that you're simply wrong. It doesn't work like that, and never has (at least in the United States... I can't speak for the Chicoms, or anybody else). |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 11:14:22 AM EDT
[#21]
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Wow. Just wow.
So much for the Hippocratic oath I guess. I'm not a doctor. I just don't see how people that refuse to be a part of the organ donation system should benefit from the organ donation system. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 1:55:07 PM EDT
[#22]
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I'm not a doctor. I just don't see how people that refuse to be a part of the organ donation system should benefit from the organ donation system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow. Just wow.
So much for the Hippocratic oath I guess. I'm not a doctor. I just don't see how people that refuse to be a part of the organ donation system should benefit from the organ donation system. Exactly. And that's scary. So should only medical professionals get treatment at a hospital? Only auto workers get to buy cars? Only prior service members are protected by the military? Cops only respond to emergency calls from ex-cops? People donate organs because they want to help others, not because they expect its some kind of mutual back scratching club. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 2:01:48 PM EDT
[#23]
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Exactly. And that's scary. So should only medical professionals get treatment at a hospital? Only auto workers get to buy cars? Only prior service members are protected by the military? Cops only respond to emergency calls from ex-cops? People donate organs because they want to help others, not because they expect its some kind of mutual back scratching club. I think his statement was more in-line with how to address the "free rider" problem. The situation is analogous to the people who refuse to vaccinate. They refuse to "expose" their children to the risks of vaccination, all while benefiting from the herd immunity of those who do. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 2:03:30 PM EDT
[#24]
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Exactly. And that's scary. So should only medical professionals get treatment at a hospital? Only auto workers get to buy cars? Only prior service members are protected by the military? Cops only respond to emergency calls from ex-cops? People donate organs because they want to help others, not because they expect its some kind of mutual back scratching club. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow. Just wow.
So much for the Hippocratic oath I guess. I'm not a doctor. I just don't see how people that refuse to be a part of the organ donation system should benefit from the organ donation system. Exactly. And that's scary. So should only medical professionals get treatment at a hospital? Only auto workers get to buy cars? Only prior service members are protected by the military? Cops only respond to emergency calls from ex-cops? People donate organs because they want to help others, not because they expect its some kind of mutual back scratching club. Your analogies are bad and you should feel bad. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 6:24:11 PM EDT
[#25]
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Your analogies are bad and you should feel bad. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wow. Just wow.
So much for the Hippocratic oath I guess. I'm not a doctor. I just don't see how people that refuse to be a part of the organ donation system should benefit from the organ donation system. Exactly. And that's scary. So should only medical professionals get treatment at a hospital? Only auto workers get to buy cars? Only prior service members are protected by the military? Cops only respond to emergency calls from ex-cops? People donate organs because they want to help others, not because they expect its some kind of mutual back scratching club. Your analogies are bad and you should feel bad. Quoted:
When smiling bandit and I are in agreement on a topic that should be a clue to anyone that has been here a while to take a step back and think hard about why they are taking a position opposite of the two of us. |
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Posted: 9/27/2016 7:00:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe not for you, but I've heard enough stories and seen enough things to have my doubts. It most DEFINITELY plays a part in the doctor's advice for care. And with the euthanasia stuff these days, the structures are in place for some pretty scary stuff. The medical world is the one arena that scares me more than the political. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: And this is EXACTLY why I refuse to be an organ donor. Doctors dealing with me in a life-and-death emergency will see me as a bag of potential donor organs instead of a human being worth saving. Hate to say it (and not every doctor is like that) but that's the way it works. *shakes head* No... that's NOT the way it works. I hate to take away anybody's paranoia (because we all love to bask in the warm glow of our own assumptions), but NOBODY in the acute-care environment even thinks about parting-you-out for your organs. That issue is not even on our radar. At all. Maybe not for you, but I've heard enough stories and seen enough things to have my doubts. It most DEFINITELY plays a part in the doctor's advice for care. And with the euthanasia stuff these days, the structures are in place for some pretty scary stuff. The medical world is the one arena that scares me more than the political.  This, after they had given it the college-try. |
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