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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:01:51 PM EDT
[#1]
fantastic job.
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:30:30 PM EDT
[#2]
I hear ya. This is a "Star S" in .380. Its actually the "SS" with the second "s" meaning its got a mag safety. This little 380 points as good as any pistol you'll hold, and its got a pretty sweet trigger too. Its a little 8 shooter, and actually a "locked breach" in a .380. I've been thinking of picking up a BM to do this same sort of workup on, but damn it took a lot of work. I'm not sure I've got the heart to get into a checkering project like this again. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:40:50 PM EDT
[#3]
you mean like this |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 6:45:24 PM EDT
[#4]
Really nice work. You are very talented.
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:06:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Totally bitchn'!!!!!
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:13:47 PM EDT
[#6]
awesome!
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Posted: 12/20/2006 7:16:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Nice craftsmanship!
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Posted: 12/20/2006 9:05:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Crock pots are a dime dozen in thrift stores...I wonder if you could bypass the thermostat or hi-temp cutoff? Without a thermostat, adding an extra layer of insulation (fiberglass batting) around the outside should increase the maximum temperature - Electric frypans are another common thrift store item - and they can be adjusted to run a lot hotter than a crock pot. |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 9:12:46 PM EDT
[#9]
GONZO!
SWEET! Looks like a brand new piece! I'd gladly pack that little Star!!! |
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Posted: 12/20/2006 9:52:22 PM EDT
[#10]
I have been doing the same thing with a two gallon stainless pot oxynate no.7 and a propane stove and have gotten great results
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Posted: 12/20/2006 9:59:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Bravo!! Very nice job.
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Posted: 12/21/2006 3:58:02 AM EDT
[#12]
Well, here's what I'm trying to monitor closely: Most bluing is done in black iron tanks. I'm not convinced the crock-pot will be a long term solution. The sodium hydroxide is supposed to react with the silica in the "glaze" on the stoneware in my crockpot, but right now that's been only to the extent of a light "frost" on the hottest surface. In theory, if the glaze got completely compromised by the hydroxide it could be very bad. Liquid in the earthenware could cause it to crack, and then you'd end up with hot lye on the counter and (gasp!) dissolving the aluminum body of the crockpot. One of my precautions on this issue was to fire up the crock sitting in the stainless steel sink. It was an interesting experiment but I'll probably use a more orthodox setup next time. This was more of an experiment to see what I could get away with in a pinch. Still, I'm very pleased with the result. Its exceeded my expectations for this project, that's for sure. |
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Posted: 12/21/2006 4:18:40 AM EDT
[#13]
Came out nice!
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Posted: 12/21/2006 4:18:52 AM EDT
[#14]
Absolutely gorgeous!
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Posted: 12/21/2006 4:24:32 AM EDT
[#15]
Wow, very impressed.
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Posted: 12/21/2006 7:45:59 AM EDT
[#16]
I had read that stainless kills the bluing salts. Is Oxynate NO. 7 the Brownells version of caustic alkali nitrate bluing? Do they say which nitrates they're using? Do you have any problems with the salts getting killed by the alloys in the stainless? What temp do you run your bath? |
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Posted: 12/21/2006 7:48:14 AM EDT
[#17]
+1 |
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Posted: 12/21/2006 7:50:08 AM EDT
[#18]
Great work.
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Posted: 12/21/2006 8:00:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Damn fine job, Gonzo!
HH |
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Posted: 12/21/2006 8:04:36 AM EDT
[#20]
Yes it will!! I run any where from 293 to 310 Deg depending on type of steel.. |
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Posted: 12/21/2006 8:06:44 AM EDT
[#21]
(Antonio Bandaras) Toooo SEEXXXXY(Antonio Bandaras) <flaminco guitar sound>
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Posted: 12/21/2006 8:11:27 AM EDT
[#22]
Very nice job. I don't own any but I've always fancied the Star pistols.
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Posted: 12/21/2006 8:28:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Supposedly if you run with sodium nitrates the temp can be as low as 270ish, but mine sure seemed slow to blue at 281 degrees. I'm going to get a quarter tank from brownells for the next project. BTW, how do you handle rifle bores when you're bluing a barreled action or something. Seems to me the bluing wouldn't hurt the bore, as long as its not chrome lined or something, but I've heard that some folks plug the bore with wood plugs. |
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Posted: 12/21/2006 8:29:42 AM EDT
[#24]
Suhweet! Could you elaborate some? Who's salts/chems did you use and what kind of checking setup do you have, tools, vise etc? TIA
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Posted: 12/21/2006 8:32:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Nice job and thanks for an idea on a cheap method to use
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Posted: 12/21/2006 8:51:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Fuggen EXCELLENT work!! Your checkering job is quite good too, man. Keep up the good work!!
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Posted: 12/21/2006 8:57:46 AM EDT
[#27]
When I set out to do this project, I had a pistol I paid just over $100 for and so I didn't want to break the bank. Lets start with the checkering. You need three things: (1) A very straight surface to help you lay in the "reference" lines; (2) a brownells checkering layout file; and (3) a checkering needle file. Here's a link to brownells page with this stuff: www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=488&title=METAL+CHECKERING+FILES I used 30LPI. Once you get your master line layed out you move a few teeth at a time with the file untl the patter is all there. THen you use a 60 degree needle file to put the "points" on the little pyramids. On the Star pistols you can see that the front strap has a little flange at the bottom where your pinkie goes. That made checkering HARD because I had to use the layout file at an angle. I did everything free hand, but if I'd have had a small enough vice, I would have had more uniformity in my cuts. THey're not terrible, but fatty mcnasty will tell you they're far far from perfect or a "gunsmith" acceptable job. BUt on my gun that's my project, theyre just fine. Chemicals are just lye and sodium nitrate. Lye is hard to get nowadays because the tweakers use it to make meth. But I found it as Roebic brand drain cleaner. Get the one that says 100% sodium hydroxide. You can also find NaOH online on ebay or places that help folks make soap or biodiesel. Sodium nitrate use to be readily found online in very pure form in pickling stores or meat sausage sites. But they're all out of stock and have been for a while. I suspect its connected to the new regulation of fireworks chemicals because, of course, sodium nitrate is an oxidizer and can be used in certain pyro compositions. Me, I found sodium nitrate in the fertilizer aisle at the local hardware store. Bonide brand: "Nitrate of soda" is the one you're looking for. Also see ebay. |
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Posted: 12/21/2006 9:04:07 AM EDT
[#28]
Gonzo, when it comes to bluing the bore, bluing should cause no issues. Once the barrel has been cleaned and subsequently fired the bore will polish right up.
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Posted: 12/21/2006 9:09:34 AM EDT
[#29]
sodium nitrate... is that salt peter?
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Posted: 12/21/2006 9:15:13 AM EDT
[#30]
Close cousin. Sal peter is Potassium Nitrate, KNO3. Although, theoretically, since its the nitrate ion interplaying with the hydroxide and the iron to make black iron oxide then salt peter should work for bluing too. I'll have to pick up some stump remover and try. |
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Posted: 12/21/2006 5:27:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Final bump and a "tools" update.
Went to bring the crock pot out to the garage and noticed that, although it wasn't quite apparent the other night, the stoneware's glazing has indeed been etched by the caustic salts. Think "frosted glass" that sort of thing. The NaOH is turning the silica in the glass to sodium silicate. This process isn't killing the salts at all, but the vessel could crack and let 300 degree shit all over the place. Not very amusing, and it might HURT too. It would not be a "long term" solution. I need a black iron reservoir that fits into the crock heating element! g'night everyone! |
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Posted: 12/21/2006 5:34:50 PM EDT
[#32]
beautiful man very nice.
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Posted: 12/24/2006 10:20:10 AM EDT
[#33]
www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=62962364
Check out that link. My brother e-mails that to me this morning and says "Here's the one you're going to do for me. Except I want you to do up a hard chrome tank in a toilet or something. Merry xmas!" My brother's a smart-ass sometimes.  |
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Posted: 12/24/2006 2:39:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Some of the glazing cracking and so forth might be because it was a "used" crock pot I take it?
I'd expect some crazing of the glazing but not necessarily to completely flake off. My SO is heavily into hand thrown pottery and I know she uses a lot of "salt" glazes to obtain specific looks and color. I'm still trying to figure out how to use some of her kilns to heat up / cure GunKote. Got to be careful with that, I think some of those kilns will go 2500 + easily. 
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Posted: 12/24/2006 2:51:12 PM EDT
[#35]
I miss my star BM 9mm. My brother got it stolen out of his car down in texas.  Nice job by the way. It looks beautiful. |
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Posted: 12/24/2006 3:47:21 PM EDT
[#36]
Very nice job.
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Posted: 12/24/2006 4:17:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Not really cracking, there's wear showing sure, but everywhere the caustic salts touched wound up frosted.
She probably doesn't use LYE in the process, which is what I'm worried about. NaOH is well published as slowly going to work on even professional lab glassware. It makes sodium silicate.
Uh, yeah... most certainly don't want to be heating the guns up to metallurgical temps. You hit a phase change and there goes the hardening and temper. I'd keep the guns out of the kiln. |
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Posted: 12/24/2006 6:48:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Looks great to me!
I’ve done exactly two frontstrap checkering jobs on a couple of 1911’s (which fortunately don’t have a lip like your Star). I will never do another one – they’re just too difficult and time consuming. I also really like the way you kept the pistol’s sharp edges when you polished it. Any idea how many hours you put into doing all this? |
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Posted: 12/24/2006 8:28:27 PM EDT
[#39]
It marks you, that's for sure. The thing I'd tell all the folks thinking about trying it is that IT LOOKS LIKE SHIT until you get about 95+ percent of the way done. I was a couple days into it, had just a few of the vertical lines laid in with the checkering file and I thought I had ruined the gun. I was convinced it was going to be a complete loss. I had grand plans of finishing the pistol with gun-kote and hiding my checkering under a layer of skateboard tape. But as I kept with it, and really tried to be meticulous, it started to "come out" alright. By the time I was hitting the cuts with the needle file, I was thinking it might actually be passable.
Thanks. The slide in particular had a lot of pitting. Thankfully, the factory markings were also pretty deep too. I actually used a brand new arkansas stone as the first level flat surface on the side slide flats. Then the usual: Plate glass with sandpaper. Same with the flats on the frame.
Impossible to tell. The checkering took a LONG time primarily because that "lip" on the bottom of the grip really caused problems. Actually, you can see that I reshaped the lip a bit to undercut the bottom of the checkering. That was both by design, and necessary. Given some of the weird angles I had to attack at to get the checkering put down close to that lip, it took some "friendly fire" and was pretty marked up. I spent a lot of time reshaping the lip and also the transition above the checkering to the trigger guard. If I had to "guesstimate" I'd say about 30 to 40 hours on checkering and metal work. But it was my first time. I suspect if I'm ever stupid enough to do another project like this (which would mean not remembering how tough this was), I could do it faster next time. |
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Posted: 12/27/2006 8:49:58 AM EDT
[#40]
Do not plug the bores!!! It will explode!! Bluing in side is not a prob like park. Im using Oxynate NO. 7 for the last 16 years, started to use Oxynate NO. 84 as a backup for hard to blue parts. Works good but you have to monkey with it a bit. Also the 84 runs at a lower temp. As for the chrome, no probs here  .
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Posted: 12/27/2006 9:09:15 AM EDT
[#41]
Thanks. I'm not sure I'll ever have cause to blue a long arm, and they certainly don't make a crock pot that big.  I must have been thinking parkerizing in terms of plugging the barrel, but it makes sense that it would be bad mojo at bluing temps. (Park is less than 200 degrees, right?).The think that strikes me about the Oxynate stuff is that if they're really just NaOH and a nitrate salt or salts of alkali metals (KNO3, NaNO3, etc), then that stuff seems REALLY expensive for what it actually is. I'd guess Brownells uses higher grade chemicals than I found, and puts buffers and the like in its salts to ensure good bluing with the largest variety of metals. BTW, Fat_McNasty, you are obviously in a position to savage me for the quality of my own checkering job, as I am sure it is far below par for what you do. I thank you for letting a hobbyist be a hobbyist (some 'smiths are assholes about stuff like this). |
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Posted: 12/27/2006 9:12:17 AM EDT
[#42]
LOL.. I can do a 20LPI front strap in 4 hrs.. 30 LPI in about 6hrs.. Get a couple of 2 line tools and a good set of rifter files. It makes it way easy up in the tight areas.. |
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Posted: 12/27/2006 9:21:05 AM EDT
[#43]
LOL... well, lets say my job took a lot longer. A LOT longer. Thanks for the tool rec's though, I'd say its like most things: Having the right tool for the job saves a lot of headaches. |
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Posted: 12/27/2006 9:38:33 AM EDT
[#44]
Gonzo,
that is some amazing work you've done and some great info. |
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Posted: 12/27/2006 9:42:29 AM EDT
[#45]
If I get time Ill go to Brownells and get you some part #'s |
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Posted: 12/27/2006 9:44:55 AM EDT
[#46]
Thanks. Have you done anything with the 25LPI patterns? The reason I ask is as follows: I'm very much liking the way the 30LPI feels and grips. This is as compared to 20LPI which, with full house .45ACP or .38 SUP loadings tends to remind me of holding a recoiling cheese grater. Given the extra time and effort required of 30LPI jobs, it seems the 25LPI might be a good compromise between the two. Thanks for your input, and again thanks to everyone for their kind words. It certainly turned out better than I thought it would. |
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Posted: 12/27/2006 9:53:51 AM EDT
[#47]
I take the 20LPI jobs to a 400 grit buffer and just round off the points.. This cuts down on the sore hands. I have never used a 25.. Customers always want 20, 30 or 50 . So thats what I do.. Link to helper tools.. Hmmm brownells dosent have the 2 line files any more.. damn.. Ill look else where.. |
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Posted: 12/27/2006 9:55:07 AM EDT
[#48]
It does. Ammonium nitrate, too, if you can find the damn stuff. |
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Posted: 12/27/2006 10:12:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Great job! hail.gif
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Posted: 12/27/2006 10:18:20 AM EDT
[#50]
Hi Ken! I think I started with your NH4NO3 recipe, but just decided to substitute NaNO3 because (1) with the sodium ions from the Lye already there, I figured the sodium couldn't hurt; and (2) Sodium nitrate seems pretty well available; and (3) I didn't want to mess with the offgassing of the Ammonia. Plus, trying to buy NH4NO3 nowadays is pretty tough, it would seem to me. People raise their eyebrows. |
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