Hoffman's Gun Center Clerk had Neglegant Discharge - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hoffman's Gun Center Clerk had Neglegant Discharge (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 2/5/2010 7:38:39 PM EDT

[#1]

This is my suprised face.

Posted: 2/6/2010 4:24:21 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

So are you getting a Glock 26?

nope, wasn't exactly thrilled with its feel, i'd like it more if it didnt have the finger grooves, as my fingers don't mesh well with them, and my grip was never all that comfortable. I'm going to try an XD subcompact next time i rent a gun - chances are great it wont be at hoffman's

Posted: 2/6/2010 4:59:28 AM EDT

[#3]

Good thing it wasn't a glock ,otherwise everyone in the store might have been killed.

Posted: 2/6/2010 5:04:03 AM EDT

[#4]

I should run down there and fill out an application, sounds like there's gonna be an open position soon.

I like Hoffmans, best shop in this part of CT if you ask me.

ETA: Whoa, lots of Hoffman's hatin'. Do I just not know any better? Maybe I should head over to hometown, if theres better shops I wanna know about dammit!!

Posted: 2/6/2010 5:09:39 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Clerk B should lose his job for that

+100

Agreed.

Posted: 2/6/2010 5:14:40 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Affirmative on Clerk B being severely reprimanded or fired. He should F-in know better than to take a gun from a customer and pull the trigger.

THIS X10

Posted: 2/6/2010 5:25:50 AM EDT

[#7]

This is a tuff crowd .
Yes it is true, WE had an AD,Thank God no one was hurt. The firearm was a Nighthawk, it will be checked out by them to see if it indeed was a slam-fire or was it human error. Safety at Hoffman's is always our chief concern and despite what some of you wrote, Are range is a very safe shooting environment. But like everything else we can learn from this & inprove . But it's nice to know that most of you here on AR15 never had an AD

Scott Hoffman
Hoffman's Gun Center
2686 Berlin Turnpike
Newington, Ct. 06111
(860) 666-8827
www.hoffgun.com
[email protected]
GUNS FOR THE GOOD GUYS

Posted: 2/6/2010 5:34:17 AM EDT

[#8]

This just got interesting.

Posted: 2/6/2010 6:00:19 AM EDT

[#9]

It's double fault of the range. Pulling the trigger in the office and not keeping guns clean enough that it function correctly. Did they expect that customer will know how to handle malfunction? In my range they inform everybody not to bring malfunctioned gun back to counter but leave it on the firing lane. So just total lack of competence there.

Posted: 2/6/2010 6:09:48 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was at Hoffman's Gun Center in Newington, CT today to browse the guns and i decided to try out a Glock 26 and a Glock 27 in their range. I went to return the second gun (G26) and Clerk A was ringing me out while Clerk B was ringing out a lady and her daughter next to me (to my right, about 3 feet away). When Clerk B took the gun from the lady, he pointed it behind the counter, to his right (to the left of me) but still behind the counter and Clerk A and pulled the trigger. A round went off and burrowed itself about 3 feet away from me in the floor behind the counter.

There is absolutely no excuse or reason this should have happened. Their range policies state that all guns, unless on the firing line, must be unloaded and locked open. Mistake 1 was that the female customer left a mag in the gun and it in battery (she said she tried to fire the last round and it wouldn't, so she figured it was empty and she was done, so she brought it back). Mistake 2 was when Clerk B took the gun from her, instead of racking the slide to inspect it, he just pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to drop the hammer (the gun in question looked like a 1911, but I'm not sure). And the best part is Clerk B tried to blame her - not that she wasn't at fault for giving him a loaded gun, but in my opinion, he is more at fault for pulling the trigger on a gun that he didn't know if it was loaded or not. She wasn't kicked out or anything, she just left after that, and i did a few minutes after that. The employees all though nothing of it except Clerk A, who, in the position he was in, was lucky he wasn't shot or hit my a ricochet.

I used to think the staff there was better than that, but I should have known better than to think gun store employees could handle a gun properly. Clerk B should lose his job for that.

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/ctdemolay0405/HoffmansND.jpg

Uh, if you as an employee do some shit like that in front of me in a store you better have your hat in hand when you turn to me or you're going to hear from my attorney.

John

LOL.. For what? You've got to have an injury to sue.

Posted: 2/6/2010 6:16:59 AM EDT

[#11]

also after looking at our video cameras the diagram that was posted by ctdemolay0405 is inaccurate.

Posted: 2/6/2010 6:18:16 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
This is a tuff crowd .
Yes it is true, WE had an AD,Thank God no one was hurt. The firearm was a Nighthawk, it will be checked out by them to see if it indeed was a slam-fire or was it human error. Safety at Hoffman's is always our chief concern and despite what some of you wrote, Are range is a very safe shooting environment. But like everything else we can learn from this & inprove . But it's nice to know that most of you here on AR15 never had an AD

Scott Hoffman
Hoffman's Gun Center
2686 Berlin Turnpike
Newington, Ct. 06111
(860) 666-8827
www.hoffgun.com
[email protected]
GUNS FOR THE GOOD GUYS

This is a "tuff" crowd.

It is always easier to point out, mock or flame other's for lapses, deficiencies or mistakes than it is to deal with our own, especially when we're sitting behind a keyboard.

Learn what you need to learn from it and press on. Glad no one or nothing but a little pride was hurt in this unfortunate scenario.

Posted: 2/6/2010 6:22:06 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was at Hoffman's Gun Center in Newington, CT today to browse the guns and i decided to try out a Glock 26 and a Glock 27 in their range. I went to return the second gun (G26) and Clerk A was ringing me out while Clerk B was ringing out a lady and her daughter next to me (to my right, about 3 feet away). When Clerk B took the gun from the lady, he pointed it behind the counter, to his right (to the left of me) but still behind the counter and Clerk A and pulled the trigger. A round went off and burrowed itself about 3 feet away from me in the floor behind the counter.

There is absolutely no excuse or reason this should have happened. Their range policies state that all guns, unless on the firing line, must be unloaded and locked open. Mistake 1 was that the female customer left a mag in the gun and it in battery (she said she tried to fire the last round and it wouldn't, so she figured it was empty and she was done, so she brought it back). Mistake 2 was when Clerk B took the gun from her, instead of racking the slide to inspect it, he just pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to drop the hammer (the gun in question looked like a 1911, but I'm not sure). And the best part is Clerk B tried to blame her - not that she wasn't at fault for giving him a loaded gun, but in my opinion, he is more at fault for pulling the trigger on a gun that he didn't know if it was loaded or not. She wasn't kicked out or anything, she just left after that, and i did a few minutes after that. The employees all though nothing of it except Clerk A, who, in the position he was in, was lucky he wasn't shot or hit my a ricochet.

I used to think the staff there was better than that, but I should have known better than to think gun store employees could handle a gun properly. Clerk B should lose his job for that.

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/ctdemolay0405/HoffmansND.jpg

Uh, if you as an employee do some shit like that in front of me in a store you better have your hat in hand when you turn to me or you're going to hear from my attorney.

John

LOL.. For what? You've got to have an injury to sue.

Nope.

In the context of criminal law, "assault and battery" are typically components of a single offense. In tort law, "assault" and "battery" are separate, with an assault being an act which creates fear of an imminent battery, and the battery being an unlawful touching. Assault and battery are intentional torts, meaning that the defendant actually intends to put the plaintiff in fear of being battered, or intends to wrongfully touch the plaintiff.

Civil lawsuit (tort) arguing the ND put him in fear of imminent battery.

Posted: 2/6/2010 6:22:50 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
I was at Hoffman's Gun Center in Newington, CT today to browse the guns and i decided to try out a Glock 26 and a Glock 27 in their range. I went to return the second gun (G26) and Clerk A was ringing me out while Clerk B was ringing out a lady and her daughter next to me (to my right, about 3 feet away). When Clerk B took the gun from the lady, he pointed it behind the counter, to his right (to the left of me) but still behind the counter and Clerk A and pulled the trigger. A round went off and burrowed itself about 3 feet away from me in the floor behind the counter.

There is absolutely no excuse or reason this should have happened. Their range policies state that all guns, unless on the firing line, must be unloaded and locked open. Mistake 1 was that the female customer left a mag in the gun and it in battery (she said she tried to fire the last round and it wouldn't, so she figured it was empty and she was done, so she brought it back). Mistake 2 was when Clerk B took the gun from her, instead of racking the slide to inspect it, he just pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to drop the hammer (the gun in question looked like a 1911, but I'm not sure). And the best part is Clerk B tried to blame her - not that she wasn't at fault for giving him a loaded gun, but in my opinion, he is more at fault for pulling the trigger on a gun that he didn't know if it was loaded or not. She wasn't kicked out or anything, she just left after that, and i did a few minutes after that. The employees all though nothing of it except Clerk A, who, in the position he was in, was lucky he wasn't shot or hit my a ricochet.

I used to think the staff there was better than that, but I should have known better than to think gun store employees could handle a gun properly. Clerk B should lose his job for that.

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/ctdemolay0405/HoffmansND.jpg

Wow!
that turd burglar shouldn't be permitted to handle firearms, theres no excuse...PERIOD, for an nd, especially at a gun shop/range.
Luckily nobody was injured, and I hope action is take against any and all who failed to treat the pistol properly.

Posted: 2/6/2010 6:47:54 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
also after looking at our video cameras the diagram that was posted by ctdemolay0405 is inaccurate.

Lol. What difference does that make? You still had an employee that shot a hole in the floor, and put several lives in danger.

I understand that accidents happen, but are you taking any action on this or just sweeping it under the rug? That employee should not be working in a gun store. Period.

Posted: 2/6/2010 6:59:27 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was at Hoffman's Gun Center in Newington, CT today to browse the guns and i decided to try out a Glock 26 and a Glock 27 in their range. I went to return the second gun (G26) and Clerk A was ringing me out while Clerk B was ringing out a lady and her daughter next to me (to my right, about 3 feet away). When Clerk B took the gun from the lady, he pointed it behind the counter, to his right (to the left of me) but still behind the counter and Clerk A and pulled the trigger. A round went off and burrowed itself about 3 feet away from me in the floor behind the counter.

There is absolutely no excuse or reason this should have happened. Their range policies state that all guns, unless on the firing line, must be unloaded and locked open. Mistake 1 was that the female customer left a mag in the gun and it in battery (she said she tried to fire the last round and it wouldn't, so she figured it was empty and she was done, so she brought it back). Mistake 2 was when Clerk B took the gun from her, instead of racking the slide to inspect it, he just pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to drop the hammer (the gun in question looked like a 1911, but I'm not sure). And the best part is Clerk B tried to blame her - not that she wasn't at fault for giving him a loaded gun, but in my opinion, he is more at fault for pulling the trigger on a gun that he didn't know if it was loaded or not. She wasn't kicked out or anything, she just left after that, and i did a few minutes after that. The employees all though nothing of it except Clerk A, who, in the position he was in, was lucky he wasn't shot or hit my a ricochet.

I used to think the staff there was better than that, but I should have known better than to think gun store employees could handle a gun properly. Clerk B should lose his job for that.

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/ctdemolay0405/HoffmansND.jpg

Uh, if you as an employee do some shit like that in front of me in a store you better have your hat in hand when you turn to me or you're going to hear from my attorney.

John

LOL.. For what? You've got to have an injury to sue.

Nope.

In the context of criminal law, "assault and battery" are typically components of a single offense. In tort law, "assault" and "battery" are separate, with an assault being an act which creates fear of an imminent battery, and the battery being an unlawful touching. Assault and battery are intentional torts, meaning that the defendant actually intends to put the plaintiff in fear of being battered, or intends to wrongfully touch the plaintiff.

Civil lawsuit (tort) arguing the ND put him in fear of imminent battery.

No intent to cause him harm and no injury occurred. If I sitting on that jury, he'd have just wasted his money on a lawsuit he'd lose.

Posted: 2/6/2010 7:05:02 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
This is a tuff crowd .
Yes it is true, WE had an AD,Thank God no one was hurt. The firearm was a Nighthawk, it will be checked out by them to see if it indeed was a slam-fire or was it human error. Safety at Hoffman's is always our chief concern and despite what some of you wrote, Are range is a very safe shooting environment. But like everything else we can learn from this & inprove . But it's nice to know that most of you here on AR15 never had an AD

Scott Hoffman
Hoffman's Gun Center
2686 Berlin Turnpike
Newington, Ct. 06111
(860) 666-8827
www.hoffgun.com
[email protected]
GUNS FOR THE GOOD GUYS

What difference does that make? Why was the first action by the employee anything other than clearing the firearm?

Shit happens via human error. No one here will argue that. What some customers are concerned with are the actions that you take to prevent this from hapening again.

Posted: 2/6/2010 7:47:41 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

also after looking at our video cameras the diagram that was posted by ctdemolay0405 is inaccurate.

I'll grant you that my diagram could have been inaccurate, and that is why there are cameras, to correct mistakes of memory. I dont feel that the diagram could have been too far off, however. When a gun is fired in your general direction and hits the ground not far from you, a little leniency is in order as to the exact placement of who and what. I was reasonably startled from the event.

Regardless, the map could be totally wrong, but the fact remains your employee had a NEGLIGENT discharge, not an accidental discharge, and that is a more important issue to deal with.

Posted: 2/6/2010 8:03:05 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:

Quoted:
also after looking at our video cameras the diagram that was posted by ctdemolay0405 is inaccurate.

I'll grant you that my diagram could have been inaccurate, and that is why there are cameras, to correct mistakes of memory. I dont feel that the diagram could have been too far off, however. When a gun is fired in your general direction and hits the ground not far from you, a little leniency is in order as to the exact placement of who and what. I was reasonably startled from the event.

Regardless, the map could be totally wrong, but the fact remains your employee had a NEGLIGENT discharge, not an accidental discharge, and that is a more important issue to deal with.

And it's thier issue to deal with. If you aren't happy then take your business elsewhere. The guy has been in the firearms business probably longer than you've been alive, he knows the rules. Hoffmans has always been great to me. Yeah, sometimes they get busy and you have to wait a little while. Yeah, sometimes you get an employee that isn't 100% knowledgeable about the specific item you are asking about. Big deal. I can not beleive the number of cry babies on a GUN BOARD.

Posted: 2/6/2010 8:33:08 AM EDT

[#20]

Thank You B486

Posted: 2/6/2010 8:44:46 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

also after looking at our video cameras the diagram that was posted by ctdemolay0405 is inaccurate.

I'll grant you that my diagram could have been inaccurate, and that is why there are cameras, to correct mistakes of memory. I dont feel that the diagram could have been too far off, however. When a gun is fired in your general direction and hits the ground not far from you, a little leniency is in order as to the exact placement of who and what. I was reasonably startled from the event.

Regardless, the map could be totally wrong, but the fact remains your employee had a NEGLIGENT discharge, not an accidental discharge, and that is a more important issue to deal with.

I've never heard the term Negligent discharge, it's always been an AD AFAIK. Regardless, I shop at Hoffman's frequently, and have been going there for 20 years. It's the biggest store with the most inventory in CT. No I don't buy all my guns there, but I have bought a few. That employee hopefully will be removed from behind the counter.

Posted: 2/6/2010 8:56:32 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

This is not the first time this has happned at Hoffman's. I witnessed one of their clerk / firearms insructors almost shoot himself as he holsterd his personal sidearm inside the store. He shot the floor with a 45 ACP.

The last I knew they had a felon working behind the counter and handling weapons.

i hope you dont mean the guy that was legally open carrying in the state of ct and was charged with breach of peace because some sissy anti gunner got scared of his sidearm.

Posted: 2/6/2010 9:00:53 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
also after looking at our video cameras the diagram that was posted by ctdemolay0405 is inaccurate.

tagged for youtube link.

Posted: 2/6/2010 9:01:49 AM EDT

[#24]

I've never heard the term Negligent discharge, it's always been an AD AFAIK. Regardless, I shop at Hoffman's frequently, and have been going there for 20 years. It's the biggest store with the most inventory in CT. No I don't buy all my guns there, but I have bought a few. That employee hopefully will be removed from behind the counter.

You have been out of the loop for a while. You can not claim the shooting is "accidental" when the shooter failed to provide a proper or reasonable level of care. Think "univeral rules of firearms safety".

Definitions of negligence (n)
condition of being negligent: the condition or quality of being negligent
civil wrong causing injury or harm: a civil wrong tort causing injury or harm to another person or to property as the result of doing something or failing to provide a proper or reasonable level of care.
casualness: casualness in matters of dress or general appearance, whether regarded as stylish or slovenly
Synonyms: neglect, carelessness, inattention, abandonment, disregard, laxity, slackness, casualness, forgetfulness

Posted: 2/6/2010 9:37:44 AM EDT

[#25]

Obviously the employee was careless and/or lacking of training. I assume Scott has handled the employee and incident accordingly. We can't go back in time and change things, I only assume this incident will make the employees there more conscious. Lucky for the store, the employees, and the customers there noone was hurt.

I bought my first gun from them and they continue to be my gun shop of choice. Everyone has their favorite place, Hoffman's happens to be mine. I have always had good luck with them and Scott has always been cordial and fair to both my wife and I, along with the rest of the employees there. My only issue with Hoffman's is I can't seem to go there without spending money.

Posted: 2/6/2010 9:49:56 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
This is a tuff crowd .
Yes it is true, WE had an AD,Thank God no one was hurt. The firearm was a Nighthawk, it will be checked out by them to see if it indeed was a slam-fire or was it human error. Safety at Hoffman's is always our chief concern and despite what some of you wrote, Are range is a very safe shooting environment. But like everything else we can learn from this & inprove . But it's nice to know that most of you here on AR15 never had an AD

Scott Hoffman
...

How could it be a slam fire unless your guy dropped a slide on a loaded magazine? That's not too smart either.

Posted: 2/6/2010 9:58:22 AM EDT

[#27]

I have always had good experiences at Hoffman's. Huge inventory and generally fair prices, with some occasional great deals. Generally black rifle friendly, too. It is nice to have 2 good shops in close proximity.. That being said, it is a large retail establishment. I don't go in there too often now, but when I do, it appears there are many new clerks every time I'm there.
Retail pay sucks and I assume this is a big reason for employee turnover. While there was clearly mistakes made by the employee, and the woman customer, accidents happen, mistakes are made. Unfortunately, these moments of not using good procedures in a gun handling incident can have deadly consequences. Obviously some one needs some "retraining."

Posted: 2/6/2010 11:15:47 AM EDT

[#28]

Scott,

I'm glad nobody was injured, that is a blessing for your shop and all of that are shooters in this state.

If indeed it was a slamfire/AD, then we should be thankful the gun happened to be pointed at the floor.

If your guy pulled the trigger then it was a negligent discharge, not an accident.

Pulling the trigger on a gun that you "think" is empty is not an accident, it is negligence.

If that is the case, your guys need a refresher on basic gun handling skills, and because it was a 1911, then there is *never* a reason to just pull the trigger except for a function/safety test, he should have thumbed it down.

In any case, For all the love/hate your shop draws, you and your shop are important to us as shooters. We need big shops like yours.

none of my business, but

1) refresher(s) for everyone on fundamental gun handling.

2) it sounds like the customer had *zero* experience with firearms. If you have RO's on duty at all times, then the RO's should check the status of weapons before they leave the range. It is a terrible lapse that a hot gun walked out on the sales floor in the hands of someone who did not even understand how to check the state of the weapon.

Good luck.

-T

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:06:22 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was at Hoffman's Gun Center in Newington, CT today to browse the guns and i decided to try out a Glock 26 and a Glock 27 in their range. I went to return the second gun (G26) and Clerk A was ringing me out while Clerk B was ringing out a lady and her daughter next to me (to my right, about 3 feet away). When Clerk B took the gun from the lady, he pointed it behind the counter, to his right (to the left of me) but still behind the counter and Clerk A and pulled the trigger. A round went off and burrowed itself about 3 feet away from me in the floor behind the counter.

There is absolutely no excuse or reason this should have happened. Their range policies state that all guns, unless on the firing line, must be unloaded and locked open. Mistake 1 was that the female customer left a mag in the gun and it in battery (she said she tried to fire the last round and it wouldn't, so she figured it was empty and she was done, so she brought it back). Mistake 2 was when Clerk B took the gun from her, instead of racking the slide to inspect it, he just pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to drop the hammer (the gun in question looked like a 1911, but I'm not sure). And the best part is Clerk B tried to blame her - not that she wasn't at fault for giving him a loaded gun, but in my opinion, he is more at fault for pulling the trigger on a gun that he didn't know if it was loaded or not. She wasn't kicked out or anything, she just left after that, and i did a few minutes after that. The employees all though nothing of it except Clerk A, who, in the position he was in, was lucky he wasn't shot or hit my a ricochet.

I used to think the staff there was better than that, but I should have known better than to think gun store employees could handle a gun properly. Clerk B should lose his job for that.

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/ctdemolay0405/HoffmansND.jpg

Uh, if you as an employee do some shit like that in front of me in a store you better have your hat in hand when you turn to me or you're going to hear from my attorney.

John

LOL.. For what? You've got to have an injury to sue.

Nope.

In the context of criminal law, "assault and battery" are typically components of a single offense. In tort law, "assault" and "battery" are separate, with an assault being an act which creates fear of an imminent battery, and the battery being an unlawful touching. Assault and battery are intentional torts, meaning that the defendant actually intends to put the plaintiff in fear of being battered, or intends to wrongfully touch the plaintiff.

Civil lawsuit (tort) arguing the ND put him in fear of imminent battery.

No intent to cause him harm and no injury occurred. If I sitting on that jury, he'd have just wasted his money on a lawsuit he'd lose.

From my read, the person pulled the trigger and this act was not an accident. They “intended” to perform the act that put the plaintiff in fear. Although they did not intend to put the person in harm a jury may believe that a “trained professional” should have cleared the weapon before pulling the trigger and such a negligent act is tantamount to intent. Example of this under the law is “I set the house on fire but I did not intend to kill the occupants.” Nope, a reasonable person would know that the intentional act (lighting the house on fire) could result in an unexpected outcome (death of occupants) and he/she would be found guilty.

Yes, it would be a difficult case, but an argument can be made. You would be surprised what a good lawyer can do…especially in CT, MA, CA, NY…where people think guns have “evil features.”

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:09:59 PM EDT

[#30]

Gun shops never cease to disappoint me.

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:12:58 PM EDT

[#31]

Should have called 911 just for entertainment. "Um the dork behind the counter just shot the floor" then sue for emotional distress and ringing ears.

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:17:15 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
The firearm was a Nighthawk, it will be checked out by them to see if it indeed was a slam-fire or was it human error.

So is the employee denying that he pulled the trigger?

Slam fires typically occur upon loading, not unloading. Why was he loading a gun behind the counter?

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:28:15 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Folks who have lived in CT know better than to shop at Hoffman's. What a terrible establishment.

Give your business to Newington Gun Exchange across town.

Where they have less than half the stock, and not nearly the reloading supplies. Hoffman's only issue is his prices tend to be higher, but he has stuff few others carry.

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:31:04 PM EDT

[#34]

Holy shit, I just bought an FNP-45 there last night.

I was there the night before too. Glad I got the gun last night and not tonight.

So which one was "Clerk B" One of the regular guys there? Description?

I do like Hoffmans. Great selection. Prices are competative enough and when they have a good deal, it is a steal. If you are looking for a new firearm with specific features or a specific variant, they are the ones that you go to. I don't expect his staff to know about every gun and what every shooter's needs are. I usually know my own shit before I go. Handgun ammo prices and avaliability there have been very good while everyone else was still backordered during the big drought. If I need to buy something and need someone to figure something out for me, I spend at JoJos or Newington fun exchange. But if I need a bone stock G19 or an LCP, Hoffmans is the only stop I'm making. For me, each trip there is generally better than the last. A sign that they are staying with the market and addressing whatever concerns others may have.

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:38:43 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Holy shit, I just bought an FNP-45 there last night.

I was there the night before too. Glad I got the gun last night and not tonight.

So which one was "Clerk B" One of the regular guys there? Description?

this happened yesterday, not today

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:43:47 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Holy shit, I just bought an FNP-45 there last night.

I was there the night before too. Glad I got the gun last night and not tonight.

So which one was "Clerk B" One of the regular guys there? Description?

this happened yesterday, not today

Damn I gotta get some Body Armor to buy boolits now!

I was there at about 7p.m. Everyone seemed fairly relaxed. Damn.

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:47:40 PM EDT

[#37]

I have been there several times, its a bit of a trek for me and its also a bit on the pricey side but they do have a lot of guns under one roof...bought my first Bushy there in 2001...clerk needs to find another job probably BUT we do all make a mistake on occasion.

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:49:46 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Folks who have lived in CT know better than to shop at Hoffman's. What a terrible establishment.

Give your business to Newington Gun Exchange across town.

i buy from NGX, but they dont have an indoor range, and i was up the road at the army navy store and decided i wanted to shoot for a bit

Thats a decent place...a real Army-Navy store too, not many of those around anymore.

Posted: 2/6/2010 12:57:29 PM EDT

[#39]

I've purchased stuff from both NGX and Hoffman's. I prefer NGX, but either is fine. To me, Hoffman's is more like a mini-Wal-Mart than a gun shop. That's both good...and bad.

That surplus store on the strip is pretty good, too. Don't bother looking at their magazine prices, though.

Posted: 2/6/2010 1:20:40 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was at Hoffman's Gun Center in Newington, CT today to browse the guns and i decided to try out a Glock 26 and a Glock 27 in their range. I went to return the second gun (G26) and Clerk A was ringing me out while Clerk B was ringing out a lady and her daughter next to me (to my right, about 3 feet away). When Clerk B took the gun from the lady, he pointed it behind the counter, to his right (to the left of me) but still behind the counter and Clerk A and pulled the trigger. A round went off and burrowed itself about 3 feet away from me in the floor behind the counter.

There is absolutely no excuse or reason this should have happened. Their range policies state that all guns, unless on the firing line, must be unloaded and locked open. Mistake 1 was that the female customer left a mag in the gun and it in battery (she said she tried to fire the last round and it wouldn't, so she figured it was empty and she was done, so she brought it back). Mistake 2 was when Clerk B took the gun from her, instead of racking the slide to inspect it, he just pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to drop the hammer (the gun in question looked like a 1911, but I'm not sure). And the best part is Clerk B tried to blame her - not that she wasn't at fault for giving him a loaded gun, but in my opinion, he is more at fault for pulling the trigger on a gun that he didn't know if it was loaded or not. She wasn't kicked out or anything, she just left after that, and i did a few minutes after that. The employees all though nothing of it except Clerk A, who, in the position he was in, was lucky he wasn't shot or hit my a ricochet.

I used to think the staff there was better than that, but I should have known better than to think gun store employees could handle a gun properly. Clerk B should lose his job for that.

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/ctdemolay0405/HoffmansND.jpg

Uh, if you as an employee do some shit like that in front of me in a store you better have your hat in hand when you turn to me or you're going to hear from my attorney.

John

LOL.. For what? You've got to have an injury to sue.

Nope.

In the context of criminal law, "assault and battery" are typically components of a single offense. In tort law, "assault" and "battery" are separate, with an assault being an act which creates fear of an imminent battery, and the battery being an unlawful touching. Assault and battery are intentional torts, meaning that the defendant actually intends to put the plaintiff in fear of being battered, or intends to wrongfully touch the plaintiff.

Civil lawsuit (tort) arguing the ND put him in fear of imminent battery.

No intent to cause him harm and no injury occurred. If I sitting on that jury, he'd have just wasted his money on a lawsuit he'd lose.

From my read, the person pulled the trigger and this act was not an accident. They “intended” to perform the act that put the plaintiff in fear. Although they did not intend to put the person in harm a jury may believe that a “trained professional” should have cleared the weapon before pulling the trigger and such a negligent act is tantamount to intent. Example of this under the law is “I set the house on fire but I did not intend to kill the occupants.” Nope, a reasonable person would know that the intentional act (lighting the house on fire) could result in an unexpected outcome (death of occupants) and he/she would be found guilty.

Yes, it would be a difficult case, but an argument can be made. You would be surprised what a good SLEAZY lawyer can do…especially in CT, MA, CA, NY…where people think guns have “evil features.”

FIXED.

Anyone making a case out of this is just scum looking for a payout. And they represent what's wrong with our legal system.

Posted: 2/6/2010 1:26:21 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Wow, a lot of Hoffman's hate in this thread... IMHO it is one of the best gun dealers in the state - sure, some of the staff are not up to par, and sometimes they are so busy that it's hard to get the attention of a salesperson, sometimes their prices suck but many of their prices are decent (for the area, that is), they have a pretty good inventory, and some of their staff is great... The range is mainly good for testing a pistol before you buy (with their 10 shots for $10 program)...

How long have you worked there???

Posted: 2/6/2010 2:03:04 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Scott,

I'm glad nobody was injured, that is a blessing for your shop and all of that are shooters in this state.

If indeed it was a slamfire/AD, then we should be thankful the gun happened to be pointed at the floor.

If your guy pulled the trigger then it was a negligent discharge, not an accident.

Pulling the trigger on a gun that you "think" is empty is not an accident, it is negligence.

If that is the case, your guys need a refresher on basic gun handling skills, and because it was a 1911, then there is *never* a reason to just pull the trigger except for a function/safety test, he should have thumbed it down.

In any case, For all the love/hate your shop draws, you and your shop are important to us as shooters. We need big shops like yours.

none of my business, but

1) refresher(s) for everyone on fundamental gun handling.

2) it sounds like the customer had *zero* experience with firearms. If you have RO's on duty at all times, then the RO's should check the status of weapons before they leave the range. It is a terrible lapse that a hot gun walked out on the sales floor in the hands of someone who did not even understand how to check the state of the weapon.

Good luck.

-T

this right here. weapon is issued condition 4 should always come back condition 4. rule number 1.

Posted: 2/6/2010 2:25:13 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
I was at Hoffman's Gun Center in Newington, CT today to browse the guns and i decided to try out a Glock 26 and a Glock 27 in their range. I went to return the second gun (G26) and Clerk A was ringing me out while Clerk B was ringing out a lady and her daughter next to me (to my right, about 3 feet away). When Clerk B took the gun from the lady, he pointed it behind the counter, to his right (to the left of me) but still behind the counter and Clerk A and pulled the trigger. A round went off and burrowed itself about 3 feet away from me in the floor behind the counter.

There is absolutely no excuse or reason this should have happened. Their range policies state that all guns, unless on the firing line, must be unloaded and locked open. Mistake 1 was that the female customer left a mag in the gun and it in battery (she said she tried to fire the last round and it wouldn't, so she figured it was empty and she was done, so she brought it back). Mistake 2 was when Clerk B took the gun from her, instead of racking the slide to inspect it, he just pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to drop the hammer (the gun in question looked like a 1911, but I'm not sure). And the best part is Clerk B tried to blame her - not that she wasn't at fault for giving him a loaded gun, but in my opinion, he is more at fault for pulling the trigger on a gun that he didn't know if it was loaded or not. She wasn't kicked out or anything, she just left after that, and i did a few minutes after that. The employees all though nothing of it except Clerk A, who, in the position he was in, was lucky he wasn't shot or hit my a ricochet.

I used to think the staff there was better than that, but I should have known better than to think gun store employees could handle a gun properly. Clerk B should lose his job for that.

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/ctdemolay0405/HoffmansND.jpg

Without a question he should be fired or at the very least severely reprimanded. Someone could have got killed because he decided not to follow even the most basic of safety rules.

Oh yeah and...

Posted: 2/6/2010 3:10:33 PM EDT

[#44]

i am there at hoffy's usually twice a week, was there today and yesturday and didnt hear anything about it.
ITS DEFINATELY GREAT NO ONE GOT HURT.......
wether its accidental or negligent, the cleark still did it by accident. yes the clerk should be
reprimanded, and again luckily no one got hurt. but i highly doubt this is the first gun ever to
go off in a gun store/range. im sure scott addressed this issue, most of the workers there are
pretty knowledable, i buy my guns wherever i get the best deal, hoffys is not an unsafe shop at all.

to the guy who would want to sue over this????? must be retarded.....lets just sue over evrything......
hoffy's is expensive? have you shopped at any gun store south of new haven..... way more.....

but seriously people...... he should get his ass kicked?? come on......
YES it could have been much worse.....BUT IT WAS NOT!!!!!
IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.....A SIMPLE ACCIDENT............SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED BUT
THATS WHY ITS CALLED AN ACCIDENT........
UNLESS ALL THE BASHERS ARE PERFECT...

Posted: 2/6/2010 3:18:19 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
i am there at hoffy's usually twice a week, was there today and yesturday and didnt hear anything about it.
ITS DEFINATELY GREAT NO ONE GOT HURT.......
wether its accidental or negligent, the cleark still did it by accident. yes the clerk should be
reprimanded, and again luckily no one got hurt. but i highly doubt this is the first gun ever to
go off in a gun store/range. im sure scott addressed this issue, most of the workers there are
pretty knowledable, i buy my guns wherever i get the best deal, hoffys is not an unsafe shop at all.

to the guy who would want to sue over this????? must be retarded.....lets just sue over evrything......
hoffy's is expensive? have you shopped at any gun store south of new haven..... way more.....

but seriously people...... he should get his ass kicked?? come on......
YES it could have been much worse.....BUT IT WAS NOT!!!!!
IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.....A SIMPLE ACCIDENT............SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED BUT
THATS WHY ITS CALLED AN ACCIDENT........
UNLESS ALL THE BASHERS ARE PERFECT...

If you put the trigger on a loaded gun and fire a round into the floor that is not an accident. That is negligence.

If I were to pull the trigger on my Glock for disassemble and a round is fired that would not be an accident, that would be negligence.

If it was a mechanical failure that would be an accident. Anything else is negligence.

I would be willing the bet that the majority of people here who are gun owners have not had an ND. I know I never have. If you follow the simple safety rules than chances are you never will.

Posted: 2/6/2010 3:33:34 PM EDT

[#46]

true ctbuilder1.....i guess just to me negligence is still an accident....
but what i was really getting at is shit happened but luckily no one got hurt.
yes he should have to answer to this...but my reply was mainly to the people
that wanted to kick his ass, sue them, saying the place is unsafe and sucks.....
wether it was a ad/nd it happened, no one got hurt, hopefully it will never happen
again, but to me its not the end of the world and ill still go back to hoffys
prob tomorrow.....

Posted: 2/6/2010 3:38:00 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I was at Hoffman's Gun Center in Newington, CT today to browse the guns and i decided to try out a Glock 26 and a Glock 27 in their range. I went to return the second gun (G26) and Clerk A was ringing me out while Clerk B was ringing out a lady and her daughter next to me (to my right, about 3 feet away). When Clerk B took the gun from the lady, he pointed it behind the counter, to his right (to the left of me) but still behind the counter and Clerk A and pulled the trigger. A round went off and burrowed itself about 3 feet away from me in the floor behind the counter.

There is absolutely no excuse or reason this should have happened. Their range policies state that all guns, unless on the firing line, must be unloaded and locked open. Mistake 1 was that the female customer left a mag in the gun and it in battery (she said she tried to fire the last round and it wouldn't, so she figured it was empty and she was done, so she brought it back). Mistake 2 was when Clerk B took the gun from her, instead of racking the slide to inspect it, he just pointed it in a safe direction and pulled the trigger to drop the hammer (the gun in question looked like a 1911, but I'm not sure). And the best part is Clerk B tried to blame her - not that she wasn't at fault for giving him a loaded gun, but in my opinion, he is more at fault for pulling the trigger on a gun that he didn't know if it was loaded or not. She wasn't kicked out or anything, she just left after that, and i did a few minutes after that. The employees all though nothing of it except Clerk A, who, in the position he was in, was lucky he wasn't shot or hit my a ricochet.

I used to think the staff there was better than that, but I should have known better than to think gun store employees could handle a gun properly. Clerk B should lose his job for that.

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/ctdemolay0405/HoffmansND.jpg

Uh, if you as an employee do some shit like that in front of me in a store you better have your hat in hand when you turn to me or you're going to hear from my attorney.

John

What does this mean? I call soda pop so ignore my ignorance.

Simple answer is that he should be groveling and begging forgiveness, basically the hat in hand is to show that he is being submissive and respectful.

I tend to be a bit pissy when people recklessly and / or negligently endanger my life.

John

Posted: 2/6/2010 4:05:22 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:
also after looking at our video cameras the diagram that was posted by ctdemolay0405 is inaccurate.

I'll grant you that my diagram could have been inaccurate, and that is why there are cameras, to correct mistakes of memory. I dont feel that the diagram could have been too far off, however. When a gun is fired in your general direction and hits the ground not far from you, a little leniency is in order as to the exact placement of who and what. I was reasonably startled from the event.

Regardless, the map could be totally wrong, but the fact remains your employee had a NEGLIGENT discharge, not an accidental discharge, and that is a more important issue to deal with.

And it's thier issue to deal with. If you aren't happy then take your business elsewhere. The guy has been in the firearms business probably longer than you've been alive, he knows the rules. Hoffmans has always been great to me. Yeah, sometimes they get busy and you have to wait a little while. Yeah, sometimes you get an employee that isn't 100% knowledgeable about the specific item you are asking about. Big deal. I can not beleive the number of cry babies on a GUN BOARD.

WTF. Someone could have been killed!

Posted: 2/6/2010 4:10:59 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
i am there at hoffy's usually twice a week, was there today and yesturday and didnt hear anything about it.
ITS DEFINATELY GREAT NO ONE GOT HURT.......
wether its accidental or negligent, the cleark still did it by accident. yes the clerk should be
reprimanded, and again luckily no one got hurt. but i highly doubt this is the first gun ever to
go off in a gun store/range. im sure scott addressed this issue, most of the workers there are
pretty knowledable, i buy my guns wherever i get the best deal, hoffys is not an unsafe shop at all.

to the guy who would want to sue over this????? must be retarded.....lets just sue over evrything......
hoffy's is expensive? have you shopped at any gun store south of new haven..... way more.....

but seriously people...... he should get his ass kicked?? come on......
YES it could have been much worse.....BUT IT WAS NOT!!!!!
IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.....A SIMPLE ACCIDENT............SHOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED BUT
THATS WHY ITS CALLED AN ACCIDENT........
UNLESS ALL THE BASHERS ARE PERFECT...

Anyone else think this is Clerk B?

Posted: 2/6/2010 4:18:17 PM EDT

[#50]

wish i worked there but dont.......so because i have a diff opinion i am clerkb.... you my friend are ignorant to think that
if you read what i wrote......i stated clerk b should be held accountable.....
but people saying kick his ass, sue them, ect.......
are also not right and out of line......
NO ONE WAS HURT OR KILLED.......it happened hope a lesson learned...but we all screw up with something, maybe not a discharge, but something
i agree people should vent about it but there is overdooing it to.....

i feel for the man who was there next to it....it sucks, but the other tools who said retarded stuff....come on......

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hoffman's Gun Center Clerk had Neglegant Discharge (Page 2 of 3)

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