HIGH CAP MAG MYTH DEBUNKED - Page 3

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - HIGH CAP MAG MYTH DEBUNKED (Page 3 of 3)

Posted: 2/28/2013 12:54:30 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I think the video demonstrates something else besides speed. Some antis make the argument that while reloading, the shooter is vulnerable and possibly someone could subdue him/her during this time. This video shows an example of how a shooter could circumvent that by keeping a round in the chamber and still be lethal while reloading. Most people would not be able to recognize that the shooter's gun is empty or loaded especially if the slide is not locked back.

^^^This!^^^

Ken Campbell is my sheriff. You will be hard pressed to find a bigger proponent of the 2nd Amendment in law enforcement. I have trained twice under Sheriff Campbell. He strongly stresses ammo management. Shooting to empty is not tactically sound.

If it makes the bad@ss mall ninjas here feel better, you can add 0.2 seconds to the times for each mag change, since they didn't shoot to empty. But since they didn't shoot to slide lock, either of the demonstrators could have put a round into the would-be tackler before they even inserted the fresh mag. He wouldn't have made it two steps.

Your missing the point to the contrary though....That same fact that they were able to manage their ammo correctly and still sufficiently put a round in someone while changing mags WILL be spun around to say the average citizen who is protecting themselves, their family, their home can in turn do the same thing, thereby making larger capacity mags unnecessary. By showing that the smaller mags with exchanges don't make much difference in ability to "tackle the shooter" They are effectively showing that we don't need larger capacity mags in order to sufficiently protect ourselves as well.

Posted: 2/28/2013 12:57:27 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Great effort and all but even a child could see they cheated, and because of that leaves a bad impression. They shot slowly on the higher cap mag then went balls out crazy on the rest to make up time differences. That's how they shot faster with the reload than not having to reload. lol. can't believe they went forward with those numbers and didn't retry for believable results. Don't get me wrong, i know mag cap restrictions makes no difference to a psycho killer other than a nuisance having to reload (assuming they had to use low cap mags) but for the love of god, don't blatantly cheat while trying to convince people to be on our side.

I beg to differ. They had a sheriff report the results after each test. Would a sheriff tell a lie or participate in fraud? Pretty sure the answer is 'no'. That means it's legit.

Gotta love all the LE haters on GD...

Are you a troll? Sherrifs are often one of the most corrupt officials, next to County Judge Executives. Don't hate LE, it's just a fact.

Posted: 2/28/2013 12:58:17 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
So what ArmaLEO is trying to prove is that every (civilian) gun should have a generous three round maximum capacity with a fixed magazine, otherwise some one may be able to fire and reload faster than a cop.

Quoted:

If those beginning stats are correct then that is a sad, sad, commentary on LEO marksmanship. I'd be curious of these same statistic as it pertains to home owners versus home invaders or CCW holders versus attackers.

Man someone sure has a chip on their shoulder against LEOs. Is someone still bitter about a speeding ticket? :'(

Posted: 2/28/2013 12:59:39 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Great effort and all but even a child could see they cheated, and because of that leaves a bad impression. They shot slowly on the higher cap mag then went balls out crazy on the rest to make up time differences. That's how they shot faster with the reload than not having to reload. lol. can't believe they went forward with those numbers and didn't retry for believable results. Don't get me wrong, i know mag cap restrictions makes no difference to a psycho killer other than a nuisance having to reload (assuming they had to use low cap mags) but for the love of god, don't blatantly cheat while trying to convince people to be on our side.

I beg to differ. They had a sheriff report the results after each test. Would a sheriff tell a lie or participate in fraud? Pretty sure the answer is 'no'. That means it's legit.

Gotta love all the LE haters on GD...

Are you a troll? Sherrifs are often one of the most corrupt officials, next to County Judge Executives. Don't hate LE, it's just a fact.

Lets see your proof of this "fact"

Posted: 2/28/2013 1:02:54 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Great effort and all but even a child could see they cheated, and because of that leaves a bad impression. They shot slowly on the higher cap mag then went balls out crazy on the rest to make up time differences. That's how they shot faster with the reload than not having to reload. lol. can't believe they went forward with those numbers and didn't retry for believable results. Don't get me wrong, i know mag cap restrictions makes no difference to a psycho killer other than a nuisance having to reload (assuming they had to use low cap mags) but for the love of god, don't blatantly cheat while trying to convince people to be on our side.

I beg to differ. They had a sheriff report the results after each test. Would a sheriff tell a lie or participate in fraud? Pretty sure the answer is 'no'. That means it's legit.

Gotta love all the LE haters on GD...

Are you a troll? Sherrifs are often one of the most corrupt officials, next to County Judge Executives. Don't hate LE, it's just a fact.

Lets see your proof of this "fact"

Proof that Sheriffs aren't incorruptable

5 million times over

Posted: 2/28/2013 1:04:27 PM EDT

[#6]

You can argue the merits and honesty of this vid but, I appreciate the LEO that is willing to put himself out there for our sake.

Posted: 2/28/2013 3:13:11 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Excellent!

Posted: 2/28/2013 3:50:16 PM EDT

[#8]

I've seen quite a bit of AR friendly attention from the industry and shows like Shooting Gallery, etc. Showing that the AR is not the evil black weapon the anti's are making it out to be. There are still the "misinformed" like Feinstein and the asshole Piers Morgan showing video of fully automatic weapons. I swear if I hear him say "who needs a fully automatic killing machine, AR15" one more time...

Posted: 2/28/2013 4:18:57 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Great effort and all but even a child could see they cheated, and because of that leaves a bad impression. They shot slowly on the higher cap mag then went balls out crazy on the rest to make up time differences. That's how they shot faster with the reload than not having to reload. lol. can't believe they went forward with those numbers and didn't retry for believable results. Don't get me wrong, i know mag cap restrictions makes no difference to a psycho killer other than a nuisance having to reload (assuming they had to use low cap mags) but for the love of god, don't blatantly cheat while trying to convince people to be on our side.

Couldn't agree with you more. I don't think the number of rounds a mag holds dictates whether or not someone is going to be lethal if they want to be. But it's a matter of common sense. One 20 rnd mag will shoot 20 bullets faster than (2) 10 rnd mags because you don't have the time of switching out mags for the 20 rounder. Let's not use completely illogical arguments because they do not help our cause. There are plenty of more valid arguments we have to use. I'm actually a little bit embarrassed about this.

Yeah, unless someone wants to make the argument that 30 rounds in the magazine makes it more difficult to pull the trigger, the video was kind of silly.
It is simple math: seconds/round = seconds per trigger pull + (seconds per mag change/rounds per mag change)
Rounds/minute= 60/seconds/round

If .5 seconds per round, 2 seconds per mag change:
30 rounds/mag -> 105.8 rounds/minute
10 rounds/mag -> 85.7 rounds/minute
1 round/mag -> 24 rounds/minute

0.1 round/mag -> 2.92 rounds/minute

Posted: 2/28/2013 4:41:07 PM EDT

[#10]

I would not show this video to defend my right to own high capacity magazines, the 2nd Amendment should be enough. Any person who has bias against guns could easily tell that trigger pulls were far slower using the higher capacity magazines than they were with the lower capacity magazines. I would get picked apart if I used this video to try and prove that point, although the message is clear the video evidence is not.

Posted: 2/28/2013 6:23:01 PM EDT

[#11]

Great video. Very professional and not insulting to people without firearms experience. Often people like us take this kind of information for granted. However, the average citizen may not have enough firearms knowledge or experience to understand the message. Unfortunately "telling" someone just isn't enough. Seeing is believing and hopefully you've revealed the myth about high capacity magazines and helped a few more people stop believing that a ban will help.

Plus now I don't have to sound like a gun nut to my co-workers and friends. I can just show them the video and go get a cup of coffee.

Good work!

Posted: 2/28/2013 7:00:23 PM EDT

[#12]

As has been mentioned several times........ the 2nd ammendment is the only necessary argument. Especially since this video defies all common sense.

Scenario 1 - pull trigger 30 times

Scenario 2 - pull trigger 30 times PLUS drop magazine and insert new magazine 5 times

Now you tell me how scenario 2 can possibly be quicker than scenario 1 if you're pulling the trigger at the same rate???? FAIL. I think it's great that a sheriff is supporing the cause..... but this video is counter productive because it damages his credibility. The shooter is CLEARLY sandbagging the trigger pull on the higher capacity magazines, so to imply that THIS PARTICULAR video debunks the capacity myth is just silly. Why give the anti's more ammo (forgive the pun)? They'd have a field day with this video.

Posted: 2/28/2013 7:10:37 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Great effort and all but even a child could see they cheated, and because of that leaves a bad impression. They shot slowly on the higher cap mag then went balls out crazy on the rest to make up time differences. That's how they shot faster with the reload than not having to reload. lol. can't believe they went forward with those numbers and didn't retry for believable results. Don't get me wrong, i know mag cap restrictions makes no difference to a psycho killer other than a nuisance having to reload (assuming they had to use low cap mags) but for the love of god, don't blatantly cheat while trying to convince people to be on our side.

I beg to differ. They had a sheriff report the results after each test. Would a sheriff tell a lie or participate in fraud? Pretty sure the answer is 'no'. That means it's legit.

Gotta love all the LE haters on GD...

Are you a troll? Sherrifs are often one of the most corrupt officials, next to County Judge Executives. Don't hate LE, it's just a fact.

Lets see your proof of this "fact"

Proof that Sheriffs aren't incorruptable

5 million times over

haha nice...use Google as proof of "fact" lol. That is not proof that Sheriffs are often one of the most corrupt officials. That's proof there are/have been corrupt Sheriffs out there...just as with ANY office/profession/job. You can google and find results like that for pretty much any profession you want. Big difference in that and the comment you made as "fact"

Anyhoo. That's neither here nor there. I guess I'm just nitpicky about people stating stuff like that as FACT. Either way, Its painfully obvious some people have a hard on for hating LEOs in this forum.

Posted: 2/28/2013 7:32:45 PM EDT

[#14]

GREAT video and I personally know Sheriff Campbell. He wouldn't "cheat" at *anything*. Knowing how to use your gun is your responsibilty. If you run it completely empty... sure, it's going to take an extra second or so to reload another magazine. Be smart and learn how to use your mags. If you think they cheated... you don't know your gun. Period.

Posted: 2/28/2013 7:47:11 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
GREAT video and I personally know Sheriff Campbell. He wouldn't "cheat" at *anything*. Knowing how to use your gun is your responsibilty. If you run it completely empty... sure, it's going to take an extra second or so to reload another magazine. Be smart and learn how to use your mags. If you think they cheated... you don't know your gun. Period.

The cheating comments are aimed mostly at the adjusted rate of fire for the different size magazines. Its obvious in the video that he shoots a lot faster when he has the smaller mags in the gun in order to make up for the mag exchange. That's why most are saying the shooter cheated. It's hard to argue the differences in rate of fire in the video.

It has nothing to do with "knowing your gun" and everything to do with skewing the results.

With everything else constant, and the SAME rate of fire throughout, they would not have got the results they did. Period.

Posted: 2/28/2013 8:17:55 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

I beg to differ. They had a sheriff report the results after each test. Would a sheriff tell a lie or participate in fraud? Pretty sure the answer is 'no'. That means it's legit.

Gotta love all the LE haters on GD...

I had to LOL at this..... saying the sheriff wont lie just because he is LEO is like saying the government wont lie to us because we elected them.........

Exactly. Remember the anti-gun FL sheriff who helped CNN pull off their "eeeevil AK-47s" piece a while back?

Posted: 2/28/2013 8:21:53 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Quoted:

GREAT video and I personally know Sheriff Campbell. He wouldn't "cheat" at *anything*. Knowing how to use your gun is your responsibilty. If you run it completely empty... sure, it's going to take an extra second or so to reload another magazine. Be smart and learn how to use your mags. If you think they cheated... you don't know your gun. Period.

The cheating comments are aimed mostly at the adjusted rate of fire for the different size magazines. Its obvious in the video that he shoots a lot faster when he has the smaller mags in the gun in order to make up for the mag exchange. That's why most are saying the shooter cheated. It's hard to argue the differences in rate of fire in the video.

It has nothing to do with "knowing your gun" and everything to do with skewing the results.

With everything else constant, and the SAME rate of fire throughout, they would not have got the results they did. Period.

Human nature. They knew they had a reload to deal with so, intentionally or not, sped up to make up the difference.

Personally I think it tells a lot more than just "they cheated", it shows that a human being with a modicum of training, knowing an obstacle is coming, will adjust to compensate. Just as a hurdler adjusts his stride when a hurdle approaches.

The fact that it's possible to do this also says something the antis won't like.

But I expect many will miss these things and just substitute "they cheated".

Posted: 2/28/2013 8:24:48 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
I'm not pleased with the Decision by Mark Westrom to keep selling to ban States, but tell me, among the major firearms companies, who has refused? Does Olympic really count, when no-one wants their products anyway?
Why hate on ArmaLite, when DD, BMC, PSA, Ruger, Stag; etc... are no different?

This. Beretta is the biggest, and their refusal was [IIRC] caveated.

States won't really blink until GLOCK, SiG, or S&W say 'no mas'.

Posted: 3/1/2013 3:09:15 AM EDT

[#19]

Jerry Miculek is amazing.

Posted: 3/1/2013 4:39:08 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Great effort and all but even a child could see they cheated, and because of that leaves a bad impression. They shot slowly on the higher cap mag then went balls out crazy on the rest to make up time differences. That's how they shot faster with the reload than not having to reload. lol. can't believe they went forward with those numbers and didn't retry for believable results. Don't get me wrong, i know mag cap restrictions makes no difference to a psycho killer other than a nuisance having to reload (assuming they had to use low cap mags) but for the love of god, don't blatantly cheat while trying to convince people to be on our side.

Exactly.

Posted: 3/1/2013 6:40:01 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I beg to differ. They had a sheriff report the results after each test. Would a sheriff tell a lie or participate in fraud? Pretty sure the answer is 'no'. That means it's legit.

Gotta love all the LE haters on GD...

Are you a troll? Sherrifs are often one of the most corrupt officials, next to County Judge Executives. Don't hate LE, it's just a fact.

Lets see your proof of this "fact"

Proof that Sheriffs aren't incorruptable

5 million times over

haha nice...use Google as proof of "fact" lol. That is not proof that Sheriffs are often one of the most corrupt officials. That's proof there are/have been corrupt Sheriffs out there...just as with ANY office/profession/job. You can google and find results like that for pretty much any profession you want. Big difference in that and the comment you made as "fact"

Anyhoo. That's neither here nor there. I guess I'm just nitpicky about people stating stuff like that as FACT. Either way, Its painfully obvious some people have a hard on for hating LEOs in this forum.

Yeah I get where you're going with that, a little nitpicky? Yes. But if you want to state something as Fact, empirical evidence is the only way to back up your position, or else you shouldn't be making the argument.

I do not hate on LEO at all. I know there are a ton of members here who are LE, and LE who support 2A are probably one of our best weapons in this fight.

But this statement:

I beg to differ. They had a sheriff report the results after each test. Would a sheriff tell a lie or participate in fraud? Pretty sure the answer is 'no'. That means it's legit.

...yikes...I mean I hope that was sarcasm. I do believe a sheriff would lie and I do believe a sheriff would participate in fraud, Pretty sure the answer is unequivocally "yes". Does that mean I hate LE? Of course not. Are the some LEOs out there who are outright jag offs? Hands down yes. But I'm not here to hate on LE, and I don't. I'm just not going to be ignorant enough to believe that a sheriff would never lie, persuade, coerce, or participate in fraud.

Posted: 3/1/2013 6:46:07 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So what ArmaLEO is trying to prove is that every (civilian) gun should have a generous three round maximum capacity with a fixed magazine, otherwise some one may be able to fire and reload faster than a cop.

Quoted:

If those beginning stats are correct then that is a sad, sad, commentary on LEO marksmanship. I'd be curious of these same statistic as it pertains to home owners versus home invaders or CCW holders versus attackers.

Man someone sure has a chip on their shoulder against LEOs. Is someone still bitter about a speeding ticket? :'(

HAHA!! Don't get your panties in a bunch, bro. I'm just stating the obvious as presented in the video.

Posted: 3/1/2013 7:33:37 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wait! Funded by Armalite? But Arfcom told me Armalite was evil! I was so prepared not to take part again in the 12 Days of Armalite this year...

they are not evil, but at this point in history you are either with us or against us. armalite is clearly against us.

WHY?

They won't boycott selling to the LEOs in ban states.

Why you gotta hate on the LEOs in banned states. The LEOs don't make the laws. As a LEO, there are a lot of laws on the books that I am not a fan of. Doesn't mean I can "cherry-pick" what I want to enforce. Nor does it mean that I support the opinions of my superiors. Especially when that same superior is intending to violate the United States Constitution. That is why we have a "checks and balances" system. The Congress writes the laws and the courts either uphold or strike down. Same on the state level. For the record, I am NOT in facvor of any bans and firmly believe in the original wording of the Bill of Rights. What part of "shall not be infringed" do these clowns not get.

18 USC 3 - Assessory After the Fact: Whoever, knowing that a offense against the United States has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact. An Accessory After the Fact shall be imprisoned for not more than half the maximum term for the principal.

18 USC 4- Misprison of a Felony: Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three (3) years or both.

So by coommitting either of the above acts, I would be placing my own freedoms in jeopardy as well as my own rights to, legally, own a firearm.

Posted: 3/1/2013 7:53:43 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wait! Funded by Armalite? But Arfcom told me Armalite was evil! I was so prepared not to take part again in the 12 Days of Armalite this year...

they are not evil, but at this point in history you are either with us or against us. armalite is clearly against us.

WHY?

They won't boycott selling to the LEOs in ban states.

Why you gotta hate on the LEOs in banned states. The LEOs don't make the laws. As a LEO, there are a lot of laws on the books that I am not a fan of. Doesn't mean I can "cherry-pick" what I want to enforce. Nor does it mean that I support the opinions of my superiors. Especially when that same superior is intending to violate the United States Constitution. That is why we have a "checks and balances" system. The Congress writes the laws and the courts either uphold or strike down. Same on the state level. For the record, I am NOT in facvor of any bans and firmly believe in the original wording of the Bill of Rights. What part of "shall not be infringed" do these clowns not get.

18 USC 3 - Assessory After the Fact: Whoever, knowing that a offense against the United States has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact. An Accessory After the Fact shall be imprisoned for not more than half the maximum term for the principal.

18 USC 4- Misprison of a Felony: Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three (3) years or both.

So by coommitting either of the above acts, I would be placing my own freedoms in jeopardy as well as my own rights to, legally, own a firearm.

It's not a matter of hating on the LEOs. It's a matter of principal in which certain companies regard LEO's as "more equal" than common civilians. If we cannot own a particular firearm due to unconstitutional bans, then why should an LEO be allowed to own one?

Posted: 3/1/2013 8:15:43 AM EDT

[#25]

It's not a matter of hating on the LEOs. It's a matter of principal in which certain companies regard LEO's as "more equal" than common civilians. If we cannot own a particular firearm due to unconstitutional bans, then why should an LEO be allowed to own one?

+1

The right to bear arms doesn't mean I can have a rifle and you can 'ONLY' have a sling shot.

Posted: 3/1/2013 9:49:31 AM EDT

[#26]

First let me say that I am not in favor of any ban. On anything. I think that law abiding citizens should be allowed to own anything they want, including NFA weapons. And I will go on record stating that the NFA of 1934 and GCAs of 1968 and 1986 are Un-Constitutional in my mind.

That being said, many smaller departments do not issue long arms to their officers, but allow their officers to carry personally owned long arms. Otherwise many of these officers could be "out-gunned" by the bad guys. I've worked in two different areas that the locals operated this way. That's why the manufacturers sell to LEOs in banned states. A sworn officer is probably a lot more likely to encounter an armed confrontation, where having a long arm available will make the difference between survival or not, than the average citizen. I'm all for anyone, not convicted of a felony, owning all the guns they want. Myself included.

Posted: 3/1/2013 9:59:54 AM EDT

[#27]

One last comment. I sent the Youtube link to many non-Arfcom friends before actually making it through the entire video but I did tell them it was funded by Armalite because that's not stated on Youtube anywhere.

Without mentioning the flaws in the video, I now am having to apologize for sending the link. Many did not know who Armalite was but now they do. The overall consensus is they are embarrassed for Armalite (assuming it was actually funded by them) and they understand why Armalite wouldn't attach their name to it (at least on Youtube).

Oh boy.

Posted: 3/1/2013 12:52:19 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
That being said, many smaller departments do not issue long arms to their officers, but allow their officers to carry personally owned long arms. Otherwise many of these officers could be "out-gunned" by the bad guys. I've worked in two different areas that the locals operated this way. That's why the manufacturers sell to LEOs in banned states. A sworn officer is probably a lot more likely to encounter an armed confrontation, where having a long arm available will make the difference between survival or not, than the average citizen. I'm all for anyone, not convicted of a felony, owning all the guns they want. Myself included.

Mark Westrom, President of Armalite, specifically mentioned this in his statement today. I don't have a problem supporting a manufacturer's choice to sell firearms to individual officers in ban states.

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/03/armalites-statement-supporting-the-firearms-equality-movement/#axzz2MKKFXSb6

Posted: 3/1/2013 2:43:44 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
soooo, how come the mags aren't empty when they're dropping them? both of the shooters with the glock were shooting x rounds, dropping the mag, and continuing to fire, so they never had to drop the slide.

If you counted the rounds, the mags were empty. The shooter shot 9 rounds, the 10th round was in the chamber but the mag was empty, they were just smart so they could reload before the chamber was empty and the slide locked back, that's just being smart, good tactics to count your rounds. It wouldn't have made a lot of difference anyway, it only takes about a second to drop the slide, but if you are smart and count your rounds, you won't have to do that.

i dont own a handgun yet but i just learned something new.

Posted: 3/1/2013 2:48:19 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Wait! Funded by Armalite? But Arfcom told me Armalite was evil! I was so prepared not to take part again in the 12 Days of Armalite this year...

they are not evil, but at this point in history you are either with us or against us. armalite is clearly against us.

Horseshit!

Posted: 3/1/2013 4:49:32 PM EDT

[#31]

love it, thanks for posting

Posted: 3/1/2013 5:17:41 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
So what ArmaLEO is trying to prove is that every (civilian) gun should have a generous three round maximum capacity with a fixed magazine, otherwise some one may be able to fire and reload faster than a cop.

Quoted:

If those beginning stats are correct then that is a sad, sad, commentary on LEO marksmanship. I'd be curious of these same statistic as it pertains to home owners versus home invaders or CCW holders versus attackers.

Man someone sure has a chip on their shoulder against LEOs. Is someone still bitter about a speeding ticket? :'(

HAHA!! Don't get your panties in a bunch, bro. I'm just stating the obvious as presented in the video.

I don't where undy pants. No one tells my balls when and where they can swing!

Posted: 3/1/2013 6:18:35 PM EDT

[#33]

Love the video, the only thing that could improve it is an on screen timer so that the time taken to for each volley of fire is indisputable.

Posted: 3/1/2013 6:58:15 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Love the video, the only thing that could improve it is an on screen timer so that the time taken to for each volley of fire is indisputable.

I don't think a timer is necessary to see that there are differences in rate of fire in that video. Like I said, I love the intent...just not the way it was done.

Posted: 3/2/2013 9:50:44 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
First let me say that I am not in favor of any ban. On anything. I think that law abiding citizens should be allowed to own anything they want, including NFA weapons. And I will go on record stating that the NFA of 1934 and GCAs of 1968 and 1986 are Un-Constitutional in my mind.

That being said, many smaller departments do not issue long arms to their officers, but allow their officers to carry personally owned long arms. Otherwise many of these officers could be "out-gunned" by the bad guys. I've worked in two different areas that the locals operated this way. That's why the manufacturers sell to LEOs in banned states. A sworn officer is probably a lot more likely to encounter an armed confrontation, where having a long arm available will make the difference between survival or not, than the average citizen. I'm all for anyone, not convicted of a felony, owning all the guns they want. Myself included.

Those LEOs will still be able to buy/purchase/get 'patrol rifles'. Unlike mere civilians, it won't be a felony.

Posted: 3/6/2013 5:26:42 PM EDT

[#36]

Gotta love Sheriff Ken!

Posted: 3/6/2013 6:58:19 PM EDT

[#37]

Split on this one. We all know limiting mags will do NOTHING to decrease crime or it's severity.
It is obvious though the "tests" were skewed.
As mentioned previously, tactical reloads ( not aware of any nut cases that have used them ). Correct me if I'm wrong.
Obvious increase in tempo as mag capacity decreased to make up time.
No evidence of hits or misses ( save the revolver near the end ). Any clown can rip through a mag letting em fly anywhere.
Doubtful there will be many blue poly barrels lying around with loaded mags on top of them for a super fast reload, tactical or otherwise.
The losers that shoot places up seldom walk into a place in thier run and gun attire ( speed loaders on belt, mags in quick draw pouches, etc... Point being, it could have been done better IMO.
There can be big differences between dropping the mag with one in the pipe ( tactical ), and having to rack the slide AFTER a reload AFTER figuring out your hurculian trigger pull is having no effect BECAUSE you didnt
have the forthought to practice and then perform a tactical reload under pressure. Another thought on this is, I believe the vast majority of shooters that do put in the trigger time to become familiar
and efficient with thier gear are much less likely to go postal. We shooters like and appcreciate our sport/hobby. We know what goes into it and are by and large upstanding individuals.

Nobody wants others to understand and appreciate weapons and all that goes with it anymore than I. I'd like to see a more realistic video. I'll bet the results would still look positive for our side.

Edit to clarify

Posted: 3/12/2013 12:05:03 PM EDT

[#38]

That's great a "NY Reload". Throw one away and grab the next.

Posted: 3/21/2013 4:01:01 PM EDT

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Bump

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - HIGH CAP MAG MYTH DEBUNKED (Page 3 of 3)

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