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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:13:55 AM EDT
[#1]
He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe.
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:16:22 AM EDT
[#2]
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We have a 3/4 ton gas Chevy on the farm. It sucks balls for towing a hell of a lot less than 9k lbs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A 3/4 ton gas truck will tow that with no problems. And will still be cheap er to own when all things are taken into account. Sure, it will tow it. A diesel will let you set the cruise on 5 over the speed limit, and not downshift. It will also get significantly better mileage while doing so. OP already stated he wanted something that will tow well, not just tow. Gassers do not tow well. 9k pounds? Any 3/4 ton truck can tow 9k pounds with no issues whatsoever. Where do come up with this horseshit? 
We have a 3/4 ton gas Chevy on the farm. It sucks balls for towing a hell of a lot less than 9k lbs. Some people are happy with low tier mediocrity, even though OP has specifically stated hes looking for something better 
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:17:48 AM EDT
[#3]
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If you find yourself in our area, come by and I'll let you take one of our tuned 2015 or 2016 trucks out with my gooseneck. Should give you a good impression of what you'll be getting. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A 28 ' trailer weighs what, 6000 , 7000 pounds? I wouldn't think you would need a diesel to tow that. If it were me though, I would contact the manufacturer of my trailer and with model & serial number of my trailer in hand ask them the loaded weight of my trailer including all fluids and such. Then when shopping for a vehicle you'll know your benchmark. Empty mine is 6450. Gross is 9200. I usually don't carry more than ~8,000. The 5.3L pulls it fine, but screams up big hills. Also, the idea is to have a bigger truck for more stability and have the ability to get a 5th wheel down the road. Not to mention my gas mileage when towing is absolute shit. Whatever it is I get, will be around for 10+ years. ETA: I dont' want a truck that will do it, I want a truck that will easily do it. If you find yourself in our area, come by and I'll let you take one of our tuned 2015 or 2016 trucks out with my gooseneck. Should give you a good impression of what you'll be getting. What part of NC? I'm as far north west in VA as you can go before crossing into MD. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:18:29 AM EDT
[#4]
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He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe. Maybe you missed this, so I'll quote it again here for you: Quoted:Comments about comfort are relevant; if I'm towing a camper for 5 hours I'd want to be doing it safely and comfortably. Towing frequently with some shit-ass petrol engine isn't comfortable, unless you are 80 years old and cruise at 50mph everywhere you go. A camper like that has significant drag, even if not heavy. It isn't a damn bass boat. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:19:10 AM EDT
[#5]
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What part of NC? I'm as far north west in VA as you can go before crossing into MD. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A 28 ' trailer weighs what, 6000 , 7000 pounds? I wouldn't think you would need a diesel to tow that. If it were me though, I would contact the manufacturer of my trailer and with model & serial number of my trailer in hand ask them the loaded weight of my trailer including all fluids and such. Then when shopping for a vehicle you'll know your benchmark. Empty mine is 6450. Gross is 9200. I usually don't carry more than ~8,000. The 5.3L pulls it fine, but screams up big hills. Also, the idea is to have a bigger truck for more stability and have the ability to get a 5th wheel down the road. Not to mention my gas mileage when towing is absolute shit. Whatever it is I get, will be around for 10+ years. ETA: I dont' want a truck that will do it, I want a truck that will easily do it. If you find yourself in our area, come by and I'll let you take one of our tuned 2015 or 2016 trucks out with my gooseneck. Should give you a good impression of what you'll be getting. What part of NC? I'm as far north west in VA as you can go before crossing into MD. Our shop is just south of Asheville. Might be a bit of a drive. But feel welcome if you are ever in the area for other reasons. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:19:36 AM EDT
[#6]
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He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe. While I will never be in a Chevy commercial for hauling industrial equipment. I'd like to have the option of upgrading to a 5th wheel at some point. Pulling from the hitch makes for some wide rights and limits the size of the trailer. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:20:19 AM EDT
[#7]
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Our shop is just south of Asheville. Might be a bit of a drive. But feel welcome if you are ever in the area for other reasons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A 28 ' trailer weighs what, 6000 , 7000 pounds? I wouldn't think you would need a diesel to tow that. If it were me though, I would contact the manufacturer of my trailer and with model & serial number of my trailer in hand ask them the loaded weight of my trailer including all fluids and such. Then when shopping for a vehicle you'll know your benchmark. Empty mine is 6450. Gross is 9200. I usually don't carry more than ~8,000. The 5.3L pulls it fine, but screams up big hills. Also, the idea is to have a bigger truck for more stability and have the ability to get a 5th wheel down the road. Not to mention my gas mileage when towing is absolute shit. Whatever it is I get, will be around for 10+ years. ETA: I dont' want a truck that will do it, I want a truck that will easily do it. If you find yourself in our area, come by and I'll let you take one of our tuned 2015 or 2016 trucks out with my gooseneck. Should give you a good impression of what you'll be getting. What part of NC? I'm as far north west in VA as you can go before crossing into MD. Our shop is just south of Asheville. Might be a bit of a drive. But feel welcome if you are ever in the area for other reasons. Most certainly will, thank you. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:20:53 AM EDT
[#8]
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While I will never be in a Chevy commercial for hauling industrial equipment. I'd like to have the option of upgrading to a 5th wheel at some point. Pulling from the hitch makes for some wide rights and limits the size of the trailer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe. While I will never be in a Chevy commercial for hauling industrial equipment. I'd like to have the option of upgrading to a 5th wheel at some point. Pulling from the hitch makes for some wide rights and limits the size of the trailer. Not sure about the other brands, but you can easily find a Ford with the factory-installed gooseneck/5th-wheel receiver. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:21:50 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some people are happy with low tier mediocrity, even though OP has specifically stated hes looking for something better Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A 3/4 ton gas truck will tow that with no problems. And will still be cheap er to own when all things are taken into account. Sure, it will tow it. A diesel will let you set the cruise on 5 over the speed limit, and not downshift. It will also get significantly better mileage while doing so. OP already stated he wanted something that will tow well, not just tow. Gassers do not tow well. 9k pounds? Any 3/4 ton truck can tow 9k pounds with no issues whatsoever. Where do come up with this horseshit? We have a 3/4 ton gas Chevy on the farm. It sucks balls for towing a hell of a lot less than 9k lbs. Some people are happy with low tier mediocrity, even though OP has specifically stated hes looking for something better It never ceases to amaze me the kind of money people will drop on a diesel truck and then buy the cheapest tuner they can. OP if you can, take Spartan up on his offer, you'll be glad you did. A 6.7 on a tune will pull like a raped ape. One of these days I'm going to have to trade the 6.4 in on a 6.7. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:25:38 AM EDT
[#10]
It never ceases to amaze me the kind of money people will drop on a diesel truck and then buy the cheapest tuner they can.
OP if you can, take Spartan up on his offer, you'll be glad you did. A 6.7 on a tune will pull like a raped ape. One of these days I'm going to have to trade the 6.4 in on a 6.7. Looks like there are some national forests right there. I'll have to plan a trip with the camper for a week. I'm not driving 450 miles for a weekend, lol. Boom camp in a national forest and drive some properly tuned trucks. Hell yeah. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:30:22 AM EDT
[#11]
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It never ceases to amaze me the kind of money people will drop on a diesel truck and then buy the cheapest tuner they can. OP if you can, take Spartan up on his offer, you'll be glad you did. A 6.7 on a tune will pull like a raped ape. One of these days I'm going to have to trade the 6.4 in on a 6.7. Looks like there are some national forests right there. I'll have to plan a trip with the camper for a week. I'm not driving 450 miles for a weekend, lol. Boom camp in a national forest and drive some properly tuned trucks. Hell yeah. Bring it, and you can hook it straight to one of our trucks for a trial run. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:32:14 AM EDT
[#12]
A gas truck will do almost anything a diesel can, its just going to suck in a gas truck sometimes. My Chevy had no "problem" towing around my 10k skid, but it wasn't fun. Just don't be afraid of the rpm in a gasser! The diesel has an incredible amount of torque, like double that of the gas engine. Also if you get in the mountains or live at high altitude with a gasser it really suffers. My 6.0 at 10k feet was a total dog. Haven't had the 6.7 up that high yet just through the Smokys and it was awesome with the turbo diesel.
Don't get me wrong the 6.0 is a beast of a work motor we use them in vehicles with 22k+ GVWR but power/torque is no comparison the diesel. Even my supercharged 650hp car is a totally different animal than the turbo diesel. That 650hp gas motor wouldn't match the diesel in a work truck. Now in a car its a lot of fun! |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:36:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe you missed this, so I'll quote it again here for you: Towing frequently with some shit-ass petrol engine isn't comfortable, unless you are 80 years old and cruise at 50mph everywhere you go. A camper like that has significant drag, even if not heavy. It isn't a damn bass boat. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe. Maybe you missed this, so I'll quote it again here for you: Quoted:Comments about comfort are relevant; if I'm towing a camper for 5 hours I'd want to be doing it safely and comfortably. Towing frequently with some shit-ass petrol engine isn't comfortable, unless you are 80 years old and cruise at 50mph everywhere you go. A camper like that has significant drag, even if not heavy. It isn't a damn bass boat. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:37:24 AM EDT
[#14]
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Lol, what speed do YOU tow at big boy? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe. Maybe you missed this, so I'll quote it again here for you: Quoted:Comments about comfort are relevant; if I'm towing a camper for 5 hours I'd want to be doing it safely and comfortably. Towing frequently with some shit-ass petrol engine isn't comfortable, unless you are 80 years old and cruise at 50mph everywhere you go. A camper like that has significant drag, even if not heavy. It isn't a damn bass boat. The fucking speed limit, like a normal civilized person. Not blocking up the road like a 20 year old, 325hp worn-out Volvo semi. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 9:52:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Wife just reminded me. I get some sort of a discount on GMC and Chevy through work. Well, guess that narrows the search down. Yup, GM supplier discount |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:08:17 AM EDT
[#16]
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Wife just reminded me. I get some sort of a discount on GMC and Chevy through work. Well, guess that narrows the search down. Yup, GM supplier discount That subtle "snap" you just heard through your speakers was Spartandiesletech's heart as he realized he wouldn't be getting his sales commission. 
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:10:25 AM EDT
[#17]
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That subtle "snap" you just heard through your speakers was Spartandiesletech's heart as he realized he wouldn't be getting his sales commission. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wife just reminded me. I get some sort of a discount on GMC and Chevy through work. Well, guess that narrows the search down. Yup, GM supplier discount That subtle "snap" you just heard through your speakers was Spartandiesletech's heart as he realized he wouldn't be getting his sales commission. "lol" |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:15:31 AM EDT
[#18]
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"lol" Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wife just reminded me. I get some sort of a discount on GMC and Chevy through work. Well, guess that narrows the search down. Yup, GM supplier discount That subtle "snap" you just heard through your speakers was Spartandiesletech's heart as he realized he wouldn't be getting his sales commission. "lol" hahahahha, you only do Ford? |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 10:22:00 AM EDT
[#19]
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hahahahha, you only do Ford? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Wife just reminded me. I get some sort of a discount on GMC and Chevy through work. Well, guess that narrows the search down. Yup, GM supplier discount That subtle "snap" you just heard through your speakers was Spartandiesletech's heart as he realized he wouldn't be getting his sales commission. "lol" hahahahha, you only do Ford? We only offer tuning for Ford, currently. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 11:01:24 AM EDT
[#20]
lol, did this tread get killed? |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 11:56:31 AM EDT
[#21]
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The Duramax engine in the GM is solid and proven; the Allison I'm not a big fan of, as it won't hold up to even the smallest mods (if you decide to reprogram, etc). This is complete and total BS... How many competitive pull rigs do you see running Allisons vs everything else? The Allison tranny is fine up to 1,000lbs of torque without a single mods and if you are pushing that limit, a transgo Jr. kit is a cheap install to add a buffer and improve shifting when you are heavy into the pedal. I'd love to see any ford tranny take 1,200lbs of torque for repeated pulls without slipping. My stock Allison has 58K on it with a 100HP tune that has my torque just over 900 with no problems, no slipping, no limp mode and no burned fluid in almost 30K since tuned. I have pulled wood trailers loaded to the max in the adirondak mountains for hours and not had the fluid temp over 200*. And if you go crazy on the tunes, any speed shop in the world will tell you a fully built Allison is by far the strongest tranny you can drop in passenger class vehicle. Ford has a new tranny, yes. And its much stronger than their old modified C6 abortion they put behind diesels, yes. But its also a completely new design, hasn't been around for too long and with fords history with transmissions behind diesels, I trust their transmissions as much as Hillary. Time will tell, but to say an Allison won't hold up? please... even the ford dealer down the street will admit the Allison is a great transmission... To the OP, when you order your truck, order the factory gooseneck plate. Makes installing a goose neck down the road a 30 minute job. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 12:24:40 PM EDT
[#22]
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9k pounds? Any 3/4 ton truck can tow 9k pounds with no issues whatsoever. Where do come up with this horseshit?
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A 3/4 ton gas truck will tow that with no problems. And will still be cheap er to own when all things are taken into account. Sure, it will tow it. A diesel will let you set the cruise on 5 over the speed limit, and not downshift. It will also get significantly better mileage while doing so. OP already stated he wanted something that will tow well, not just tow. Gassers do not tow well. 9k pounds? Any 3/4 ton truck can tow 9k pounds with no issues whatsoever. Where do come up with this horseshit?
I've got a 2011 Silverado with the 6.2L motor in it, tow package, semi-floating 14 bolt rear end...Basically a heavy half ton pickup truck. I pull my RZR XP1000 on an 18 ft carhauler up the front range outside of Denver on I-70 and the best I can do is about 45 mph and I see 240* engine temps. I can't pull to Eisenhower Tunnel faster than 40-50 mph, again at 230-240*. That truck has been through a 6l80 trans when pulling 6k though the mountains, constantly runs hot with a payload in the bed on the mtns around here (no trailer), and rides like shit when loaded down. It's getting replaced with a new Denali HD within the next month or so because it can't comfortably or easily haul my lightest stuff, let alone the race buggy and spare tires/tools/parts/etc... Towing in Louisiana is a hell of a lot different than towing where there are real hills. I'm from MS, so I know what I used to get away with towing around home. No way that flies here in CO (or many other states) when you start hitting 6% grades for miles at a time. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 12:36:52 PM EDT
[#23]
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Not sure about the other brands, but you can easily find a Ford with the factory-installed gooseneck/5th-wheel receiver. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe. While I will never be in a Chevy commercial for hauling industrial equipment. I'd like to have the option of upgrading to a 5th wheel at some point. Pulling from the hitch makes for some wide rights and limits the size of the trailer. Not sure about the other brands, but you can easily find a Ford with the factory-installed gooseneck/5th-wheel receiver. So No comment as far as what to buy, but just curious, how much time and money have you spent making your ford so much better then a stock Chevy? |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 1:46:25 PM EDT
[#24]
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So No comment as far as what to buy, but just curious, how much time and money have you spent making your ford so much better then a stock Chevy? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe. While I will never be in a Chevy commercial for hauling industrial equipment. I'd like to have the option of upgrading to a 5th wheel at some point. Pulling from the hitch makes for some wide rights and limits the size of the trailer. Not sure about the other brands, but you can easily find a Ford with the factory-installed gooseneck/5th-wheel receiver. So No comment as far as what to buy, but just curious, how much time and money have you spent making your ford so much better then a stock Chevy? Well, that's actually exactly what I do for a living. So.... not sure how exactly you'd like me to answer that. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 2:01:30 PM EDT
[#25]
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Well, that's actually exactly what I do for a living. So.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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He's towing a 28' travel trailer, not a 40' Gooseneck flatbed loaded down with drill pipe. While I will never be in a Chevy commercial for hauling industrial equipment. I'd like to have the option of upgrading to a 5th wheel at some point. Pulling from the hitch makes for some wide rights and limits the size of the trailer. Not sure about the other brands, but you can easily find a Ford with the factory-installed gooseneck/5th-wheel receiver. So No comment as far as what to buy, but just curious, how much time and money have you spent making your ford so much better then a stock Chevy? Well, that's actually exactly what I do for a living. So.... Fair enough, but why couldn't someone take the same amount of time/money that a diesel modded rig cost over the same rig with gas and end up with at least a close equal? Say RCR racing(or any competent GM guru) building a 6.0/6.2 Chevy turbo motor all tuned up for the same 6-8-10 grand difference overall in price as that modded diesel rig ends up costing over the stock gas rig? Lots of people have zero desire to own a diesel rig unless they were to be hooked to a heavy trailer daily...and even at that the last place I worked the crews all rolled around in medium duty trucks, all C60's with duramax's running 14 to 18 ft flat beds except for 3 with 8.1 gas motors..to a man when they had to leave town pulling max loaded truck/ trailer combo's every crew wanted the 8.1 trucks...now granted that is a small company with only 12 trucks, and they are medium duty trucks.. But I am pretty sure they are even more taxing load wise then a pickup is...personally, I think all of today's trucks are damn good and it comes down to what fits the app best with the dealer support that will be there when needed... |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 2:15:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fair enough, but why couldn't someone take the same amount of time/money that a diesel modded rig cost over the same rig with gas and end up with at least a close equal? Say RCR racing(or any competent GM guru) building a 6.0/6.2 Chevy turbo motor all tuned up for the same 6-8-10 grand difference overall in price as that modded diesel rig ends up costing over the stock gas rig? Lots of people have zero desire to own a diesel rig unless they were to be hooked to a heavy trailer daily...and even at that the last place I worked the crews all rolled around in medium duty trucks, all C60's with duramax's running 14 to 18 ft flat beds except for 3 with 8.1 gas motors..to a man when they had to leave town pulling max loaded truck/ trailer combo's every crew wanted the 8.1 trucks...now granted that is a small company with only 12 trucks, and they are medium duty trucks.. But I am pretty sure they are even more taxing load wise then a pickup is...personally, I think all of today's trucks are damn good and it comes down to what fits the app best with the dealer support that will be there when needed... Resale value for one. Sure, a diesel is going to cost more upfront but it will still be worth more than a comparable gas truck when you get rid of it. Spend that much on building a turbo gas motor and use it and I highly doubt you will get much of it back in resale. The farmer I work for has a 3/4 ton Chevy with the 8.1. Pulling the seed tender empty (~5,000 lbs) sucks. To each their own. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 2:28:22 PM EDT
[#27]
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Fair enough, but why couldn't someone take the same amount of time/money that a diesel modded rig cost over the same rig with gas and end up with at least a close equal? Say RCR racing(or any competent GM guru) building a 6.0/6.2 Chevy turbo motor all tuned up for the same 6-8-10 grand difference overall in price as that modded diesel rig ends up costing over the stock gas rig? Lots of people have zero desire to own a diesel rig unless they were to be hooked to a heavy trailer daily...and even at that the last place I worked the crews all rolled around in medium duty trucks, all C60's with duramax's running 14 to 18 ft flat beds except for 3 with 8.1 gas motors..to a man when they had to leave town pulling max loaded truck/ trailer combo's every crew wanted the 8.1 trucks...now granted that is a small company with only 12 trucks, and they are medium duty trucks.. But I am pretty sure they are even more taxing load wise then a pickup is...personally, I think all of today's trucks are damn good and it comes down to what fits the app best with the dealer support that will be there when needed... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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While I will never be in a Chevy commercial for hauling industrial equipment. I'd like to have the option of upgrading to a 5th wheel at some point. Pulling from the hitch makes for some wide rights and limits the size of the trailer. Not sure about the other brands, but you can easily find a Ford with the factory-installed gooseneck/5th-wheel receiver. So No comment as far as what to buy, but just curious, how much time and money have you spent making your ford so much better then a stock Chevy? Well, that's actually exactly what I do for a living. So.... Fair enough, but why couldn't someone take the same amount of time/money that a diesel modded rig cost over the same rig with gas and end up with at least a close equal? Say RCR racing(or any competent GM guru) building a 6.0/6.2 Chevy turbo motor all tuned up for the same 6-8-10 grand difference overall in price as that modded diesel rig ends up costing over the stock gas rig? Lots of people have zero desire to own a diesel rig unless they were to be hooked to a heavy trailer daily...and even at that the last place I worked the crews all rolled around in medium duty trucks, all C60's with duramax's running 14 to 18 ft flat beds except for 3 with 8.1 gas motors..to a man when they had to leave town pulling max loaded truck/ trailer combo's every crew wanted the 8.1 trucks...now granted that is a small company with only 12 trucks, and they are medium duty trucks.. But I am pretty sure they are even more taxing load wise then a pickup is...personally, I think all of today's trucks are damn good and it comes down to what fits the app best with the dealer support that will be there when needed... The simple answer to that is, the additional cost of a diesel + mod costs is far less than the reduced gas engine cost plus the VERY expensive gas engine mods it would require to get the same performance. For example, diesel option is about 6500 dollars on the Ford. We are getting exactly 600RWHP out of these engines on tune, intake, exhaust. Yes, 600RWHP- happy to post dyno graphs. 1300ft/lbs. This is 720 base engine horsepower, stock hardware. Yes, it's safe, and well-proven. To get the same performance (and far less torque) out of a gas engine is going to require a supercharger, that will cost around 8000 dollars for a kit WITHOUT all the other supporting mods. Those turbo engines you are quoting require many, many more supporting mods- verify yourself if you don't believe me. And have half the torque, or less. The gas engine will be completely incapable of running on regular octane gas at that point, as well. All this is also moot when you start talking about the robust-ness of the diesel engine hardware vs gas race engines like you are mentioning. There are many, many people out there running 600RWHP diesel tunes for 200+ thousand miles (some in this very thread). A gas race engine would live 20k, if you are lucky. If we are talking performance for dollars, light duty diesel simply cannot be outdone. Look at the gas/diesel ratios in sales trends. You'll find it is quickly heading in that direction for very good reasons. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 2:42:42 PM EDT
[#28]
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The simple answer to that is, the additional cost of a diesel + mod costs is far less than the reduced gas engine cost plus the VERY expensive gas engine mods it would require to get the same performance. For example, diesel option is about 6500 dollars on the Ford. We are getting exactly 600RWHP out of these engines on tune, intake, exhaust. Yes, 600RWHP- happy to post dyno graphs. 1300ft/lbs. This is 720 base engine horsepower, stock hardware. Yes, it's safe, and well-proven. To get the same performance (and far less torque) out of a gas engine is going to require a supercharger, that will cost around 8000 dollars for a kit WITHOUT all the other supporting mods. Those turbo engines you are quoting require many, many more supporting mods- verify yourself if you don't believe me. And have half the torque, or less. The gas engine will be completely incapable of running on regular octane gas at that point, as well. All this is also moot when you start talking about the robust-ness of the diesel engine hardware vs gas race engines like you are mentioning. There are many, many people out there running 600RWHP diesel tunes for 200+ thousand miles (some in this very thread). A gas race engine would live 20k, if you are lucky. If we are talking performance for dollars, light duty diesel simply cannot be outdone. Look at the gas/diesel ratios in sales trends. You'll find it is quickly heading in that direction for very good reasons. Fair enough, not trying to make a scene... I still doubt from what I have seen that the bed is as rose as you paint it..I know the few friends I have that are still rolling older bro diesel trucks all tuned and stuff are bitching about the extreme cost of repairs for basics like injectors, injection pumps and turbos...let alone when the motor finally shits the bed..All my other friends have gone back to gas trucks, or trade their diesels off every couple of years now...And as I said, I would own a diesel truck under certain conditions, but not seeing a benefit for the stuff I currently pull...Thank you for sharing though, |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 2:56:20 PM EDT
[#29]
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I've got a 2011 Silverado with the 6.2L motor in it, tow package, semi-floating 14 bolt rear end...Basically a heavy half ton pickup truck. I pull my RZR XP1000 on an 18 ft carhauler up the front range outside of Denver on I-70 and the best I can do is about 45 mph and I see 240* engine temps. I can't pull to Eisenhower Tunnel faster than 40-50 mph, again at 230-240*. That truck has been through a 6l80 trans when pulling 6k though the mountains, constantly runs hot with a payload in the bed on the mtns around here (no trailer), and rides like shit when loaded down. It's getting replaced with a new Denali HD within the next month or so because it can't comfortably or easily haul my lightest stuff, let alone the race buggy and spare tires/tools/parts/etc... Towing in Louisiana is a hell of a lot different than towing where there are real hills. I'm from MS, so I know what I used to get away with towing around home. No way that flies here in CO (or many other states) when you start hitting 6% grades for miles at a time. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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A 3/4 ton gas truck will tow that with no problems. And will still be cheap er to own when all things are taken into account. Sure, it will tow it. A diesel will let you set the cruise on 5 over the speed limit, and not downshift. It will also get significantly better mileage while doing so. OP already stated he wanted something that will tow well, not just tow. Gassers do not tow well. 9k pounds? Any 3/4 ton truck can tow 9k pounds with no issues whatsoever. Where do come up with this horseshit?
I've got a 2011 Silverado with the 6.2L motor in it, tow package, semi-floating 14 bolt rear end...Basically a heavy half ton pickup truck. I pull my RZR XP1000 on an 18 ft carhauler up the front range outside of Denver on I-70 and the best I can do is about 45 mph and I see 240* engine temps. I can't pull to Eisenhower Tunnel faster than 40-50 mph, again at 230-240*. That truck has been through a 6l80 trans when pulling 6k though the mountains, constantly runs hot with a payload in the bed on the mtns around here (no trailer), and rides like shit when loaded down. It's getting replaced with a new Denali HD within the next month or so because it can't comfortably or easily haul my lightest stuff, let alone the race buggy and spare tires/tools/parts/etc... Towing in Louisiana is a hell of a lot different than towing where there are real hills. I'm from MS, so I know what I used to get away with towing around home. No way that flies here in CO (or many other states) when you start hitting 6% grades for miles at a time. Probably has 3.42 gears. Not helping much. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 3:14:43 PM EDT
[#30]
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The simple answer to that is, the additional cost of a diesel + mod costs is far less than the reduced gas engine cost plus the VERY expensive gas engine mods it would require to get the same performance. For example, diesel option is about 6500 dollars on the Ford. We are getting exactly 600RWHP out of these engines on tune, intake, exhaust. Yes, 600RWHP- happy to post dyno graphs. 1300ft/lbs. This is 720 base engine horsepower, stock hardware. Yes, it's safe, and well-proven. To get the same performance (and far less torque) out of a gas engine is going to require a supercharger, that will cost around 8000 dollars for a kit WITHOUT all the other supporting mods. Those turbo engines you are quoting require many, many more supporting mods- verify yourself if you don't believe me. And have half the torque, or less. The gas engine will be completely incapable of running on regular octane gas at that point, as well. All this is also moot when you start talking about the robust-ness of the diesel engine hardware vs gas race engines like you are mentioning. There are many, many people out there running 600RWHP diesel tunes for 200+ thousand miles (some in this very thread). A gas race engine would live 20k, if you are lucky. If we are talking performance for dollars, light duty diesel simply cannot be outdone. Look at the gas/diesel ratios in sales trends. You'll find it is quickly heading in that direction for very good reasons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Not sure about the other brands, but you can easily find a Ford with the factory-installed gooseneck/5th-wheel receiver. So No comment as far as what to buy, but just curious, how much time and money have you spent making your ford so much better then a stock Chevy? Well, that's actually exactly what I do for a living. So.... Fair enough, but why couldn't someone take the same amount of time/money that a diesel modded rig cost over the same rig with gas and end up with at least a close equal? Say RCR racing(or any competent GM guru) building a 6.0/6.2 Chevy turbo motor all tuned up for the same 6-8-10 grand difference overall in price as that modded diesel rig ends up costing over the stock gas rig? Lots of people have zero desire to own a diesel rig unless they were to be hooked to a heavy trailer daily...and even at that the last place I worked the crews all rolled around in medium duty trucks, all C60's with duramax's running 14 to 18 ft flat beds except for 3 with 8.1 gas motors..to a man when they had to leave town pulling max loaded truck/ trailer combo's every crew wanted the 8.1 trucks...now granted that is a small company with only 12 trucks, and they are medium duty trucks.. But I am pretty sure they are even more taxing load wise then a pickup is...personally, I think all of today's trucks are damn good and it comes down to what fits the app best with the dealer support that will be there when needed... The simple answer to that is, the additional cost of a diesel + mod costs is far less than the reduced gas engine cost plus the VERY expensive gas engine mods it would require to get the same performance. For example, diesel option is about 6500 dollars on the Ford. We are getting exactly 600RWHP out of these engines on tune, intake, exhaust. Yes, 600RWHP- happy to post dyno graphs. 1300ft/lbs. This is 720 base engine horsepower, stock hardware. Yes, it's safe, and well-proven. To get the same performance (and far less torque) out of a gas engine is going to require a supercharger, that will cost around 8000 dollars for a kit WITHOUT all the other supporting mods. Those turbo engines you are quoting require many, many more supporting mods- verify yourself if you don't believe me. And have half the torque, or less. The gas engine will be completely incapable of running on regular octane gas at that point, as well. All this is also moot when you start talking about the robust-ness of the diesel engine hardware vs gas race engines like you are mentioning. There are many, many people out there running 600RWHP diesel tunes for 200+ thousand miles (some in this very thread). A gas race engine would live 20k, if you are lucky. If we are talking performance for dollars, light duty diesel simply cannot be outdone. Look at the gas/diesel ratios in sales trends. You'll find it is quickly heading in that direction for very good reasons. Already pointed this out but here is my cars engine. The whole package was done at Lingenfelter. LS3 with ported heads, cam, headers, Magnusson Heartbeat supercharger etc. It makes 650/565 flywheel. Of course a gas powered turbo would behave differently than my PD supercharger, and make more torque but still nothing like a stock 6.7 with 440/860. My other gas engine make 705/630 all motor, 454 ci LS based motor and on the ragged edge of pump gas. No way could either of my gas engines match a stock turbo diesel in a work truck. 
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Posted: 8/26/2016 5:08:03 PM EDT
[#31]
I use a Dodge 3500 with the 6.4 Hemi for towing my 5th wheel. Works fantastic. Zero problems thus far, but if I do I have a lifetime bumper to bumper warranty
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Posted: 8/26/2016 6:01:06 PM EDT
[#32]
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Fair enough, not trying to make a scene... I still doubt from what I have seen that the bed is as rose as you paint it..I know the few friends I have that are still rolling older bro diesel trucks all tuned and stuff are bitching about the extreme cost of repairs for basics like injectors, injection pumps and turbos...let alone when the motor finally shits the bed..All my other friends have gone back to gas trucks, or trade their diesels off every couple of years now...And as I said, I would own a diesel truck under certain conditions, but not seeing a benefit for the stuff I currently pull...Thank you for sharing though, Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The simple answer to that is, the additional cost of a diesel + mod costs is far less than the reduced gas engine cost plus the VERY expensive gas engine mods it would require to get the same performance. For example, diesel option is about 6500 dollars on the Ford. We are getting exactly 600RWHP out of these engines on tune, intake, exhaust. Yes, 600RWHP- happy to post dyno graphs. 1300ft/lbs. This is 720 base engine horsepower, stock hardware. Yes, it's safe, and well-proven. To get the same performance (and far less torque) out of a gas engine is going to require a supercharger, that will cost around 8000 dollars for a kit WITHOUT all the other supporting mods. Those turbo engines you are quoting require many, many more supporting mods- verify yourself if you don't believe me. And have half the torque, or less. The gas engine will be completely incapable of running on regular octane gas at that point, as well. All this is also moot when you start talking about the robust-ness of the diesel engine hardware vs gas race engines like you are mentioning. There are many, many people out there running 600RWHP diesel tunes for 200+ thousand miles (some in this very thread). A gas race engine would live 20k, if you are lucky. If we are talking performance for dollars, light duty diesel simply cannot be outdone. Look at the gas/diesel ratios in sales trends. You'll find it is quickly heading in that direction for very good reasons. Fair enough, not trying to make a scene... I still doubt from what I have seen that the bed is as rose as you paint it..I know the few friends I have that are still rolling older bro diesel trucks all tuned and stuff are bitching about the extreme cost of repairs for basics like injectors, injection pumps and turbos...let alone when the motor finally shits the bed..All my other friends have gone back to gas trucks, or trade their diesels off every couple of years now...And as I said, I would own a diesel truck under certain conditions, but not seeing a benefit for the stuff I currently pull...Thank you for sharing though, Key words in bold. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 7:23:35 PM EDT
[#33]
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Fair enough, not trying to make a scene... I still doubt from what I have seen that the bed is as rose as you paint it..I know the few friends I have that are still rolling older bro diesel trucks all tuned and stuff are bitching about the extreme cost of repairs for basics like injectors, injection pumps and turbos...let alone when the motor finally shits the bed..All my other friends have gone back to gas trucks, or trade their diesels off every couple of years now...And as I said, I would own a diesel truck under certain conditions, but not seeing a benefit for the stuff I currently pull...Thank you for sharing though, Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The simple answer to that is, the additional cost of a diesel + mod costs is far less than the reduced gas engine cost plus the VERY expensive gas engine mods it would require to get the same performance. For example, diesel option is about 6500 dollars on the Ford. We are getting exactly 600RWHP out of these engines on tune, intake, exhaust. Yes, 600RWHP- happy to post dyno graphs. 1300ft/lbs. This is 720 base engine horsepower, stock hardware. Yes, it's safe, and well-proven. To get the same performance (and far less torque) out of a gas engine is going to require a supercharger, that will cost around 8000 dollars for a kit WITHOUT all the other supporting mods. Those turbo engines you are quoting require many, many more supporting mods- verify yourself if you don't believe me. And have half the torque, or less. The gas engine will be completely incapable of running on regular octane gas at that point, as well. All this is also moot when you start talking about the robust-ness of the diesel engine hardware vs gas race engines like you are mentioning. There are many, many people out there running 600RWHP diesel tunes for 200+ thousand miles (some in this very thread). A gas race engine would live 20k, if you are lucky. If we are talking performance for dollars, light duty diesel simply cannot be outdone. Look at the gas/diesel ratios in sales trends. You'll find it is quickly heading in that direction for very good reasons. Fair enough, not trying to make a scene... I still doubt from what I have seen that the bed is as rose as you paint it..I know the few friends I have that are still rolling older bro diesel trucks all tuned and stuff are bitching about the extreme cost of repairs for basics like injectors, injection pumps and turbos...let alone when the motor finally shits the bed..All my other friends have gone back to gas trucks, or trade their diesels off every couple of years now...And as I said, I would own a diesel truck under certain conditions, but not seeing a benefit for the stuff I currently pull...Thank you for sharing though, I recently rebuilt the entire top end of my 6.4L Ford. I also rebuilt the trans from the case up. Top end of the truck: H&S single turbo conversion Borg-werner 363SXE turbo New turbo down pipe No limits CAC pipe No limits 4in intake. Ford OEM injectors. (changed because I was in there. They actually didn't need changed) New tuning for single turbo Fuel lab velocity 100 fuel pump (tuning will defuel my truck at the top end.) All said and done: ~$6000 The trucks top end will be bomb proof at 700-750hp probably for another 200k miles or more. Transmission. Stage 3 full billeted transmission, plus triple disc converter. ~$7000 installed and tuned. Warrantied for 5 years / 500,000 miles up to 1200hp input. Probably paid a little bit more then I should of for a transmission. But its a long story that involves me being fucked by the first transmission shop. I already have: Banks inner cooler aFe head studs aFe full 5 inch exhaust No limits up pipes No limits EGR delete. Mishimoto radiator Detroit truetrac rear end I haven't gotten to Dyno it yet. But I would expect 700+ RWHP. Spartan could probably give a better estimate then I can. Did I go crazy? Yeah. But my truck is in mint condition at 150k miles. Reliable as hell. And will keep up with pretty much any car on the street outside of vette or exotic. While comfortable enough to daily drive and powerful enough to tow 15-18k. |
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Posted: 8/26/2016 7:38:46 PM EDT
[#34]
On the pre '17 Super duties the only difference between the F250 and 350 is the 350 has a higher GVWR, overload spring and rear stabilizer is standard and the rear blocks are a little taller. Other than that they have the same rear spring packs and front coils(as long as each has the same packages). I even think Ford changed the F250 rear blocks in '14 and now they both have the same ones.
For '17 the Diesel and gas powered F350 trucks all have the same drivetrain but the gas powered F250 has it's own special version of transmission that is tuned for the 6.2. I like the Ford, well because it's a Ford  , but I really like the solid front axle and manual locking hubs.
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Posted: 9/2/2016 11:46:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Weird, I was looking again and noticed the gears on the Ford F-250 diesel were 3.55 Non slip and when I changed to 3.73 non slip the price went down 8k. I thought 3.73 was better for towing? |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 11:50:50 AM EDT
[#36]
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Weird, I was looking again and noticed the gears on the Ford F-250 diesel were 3.55 Non slip and when I changed to 3.73 non slip the price went down 8k. I thought 3.73 was better for towing? Look at your engine choice. With the 6.7 diesel, SRW, 3.55 is the highest you can go rear end wise. If you selected 3.73's you're going to a 6.2 gas engine. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 11:53:09 AM EDT
[#37]
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Look at your engine choice. With the 6.7 diesel, SRW, 3.55 is the highest you can go rear end wise. If you selected 3.73's you're going to a 6.2 gas engine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Weird, I was looking again and noticed the gears on the Ford F-250 diesel were 3.55 Non slip and when I changed to 3.73 non slip the price went down 8k. I thought 3.73 was better for towing? Look at your engine choice. With the 6.7 diesel, SRW, 3.55 is the highest you can go rear end wise. If you selected 3.73's you're going to a 6.2 gas engine. Shit, you're right. It automatically changed it. Thanks for the heads up. Which is strange because the GMC 2500 diesel is standard with 3.73 |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 11:59:30 AM EDT
[#38]
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Shit, you're right. It automatically changed it. Thanks for the heads up. Which is strange because the GMC 2500 diesel is standard with 3.73 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Weird, I was looking again and noticed the gears on the Ford F-250 diesel were 3.55 Non slip and when I changed to 3.73 non slip the price went down 8k. I thought 3.73 was better for towing? Look at your engine choice. With the 6.7 diesel, SRW, 3.55 is the highest you can go rear end wise. If you selected 3.73's you're going to a 6.2 gas engine. Shit, you're right. It automatically changed it. Thanks for the heads up. Which is strange because the GMC 2500 diesel is standard with 3.73 Just my opinion on this... 3.73's really are not needed for the capacity that you can tow with in an F250 or SRW F350. And I'd rather have the lower RPM's at 65-70mph of the 3.55's. You used to need the higher ratios when engines were not as powerful... But now with 400HP factory engines... really not needed. |
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Posted: 9/2/2016 12:34:49 PM EDT
[#39]
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Just my opinion on this... 3.73's really are not needed for the capacity that you can tow with in an F250 or SRW F350. And I'd rather have the lower RPM's at 65-70mph of the 3.55's. You used to need the higher ratios when engines were not as powerful... But now with 400HP factory engines... really not needed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Weird, I was looking again and noticed the gears on the Ford F-250 diesel were 3.55 Non slip and when I changed to 3.73 non slip the price went down 8k. I thought 3.73 was better for towing? Look at your engine choice. With the 6.7 diesel, SRW, 3.55 is the highest you can go rear end wise. If you selected 3.73's you're going to a 6.2 gas engine. Shit, you're right. It automatically changed it. Thanks for the heads up. Which is strange because the GMC 2500 diesel is standard with 3.73 Just my opinion on this... 3.73's really are not needed for the capacity that you can tow with in an F250 or SRW F350. And I'd rather have the lower RPM's at 65-70mph of the 3.55's. You used to need the higher ratios when engines were not as powerful... But now with 400HP factory engines... really not needed. That's an interesting point. |
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