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Link Posted: 12/18/2014 11:19:17 PM EDT
[#1]
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I'd be down with war if it means a deployment and a promotion.
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They won't rest until their superior logic has convinced every Muslim currently fighting this terrorist epidemic comes to the conclusion that they are wrongly practicing their faith, embrace the Jihadist derp, and declare war on the Westerner Infidels.


I'd be down with war if it means a deployment and a promotion.


Not even the Soviets pulled off the perfect "kill 'em all" wet dream, and they were only fighting a relatively low population area, far from the heartland of Islam. Islam ended up ironically becoming the only religion with official sanction in the USSR.  They realized they could not defeat those people by telling them their religion sucked and to become atheists - they had to co-opt the religion.  

The best we could hope for in some protracted civilizational war would be an end state close to what we enjoy now - a situation where the local governing authorities throughout most of the Muslim world are willing to cooperate in eradicating the nutcases - and, in fact, have more to lose from their success than we do.

But, I have to admit, war has been good to me.
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 11:28:33 PM EDT
[#2]
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The best we could hope for in some protracted civilizational war would be an end state close to what we enjoy now - a situation where the local governing authorities throughout most of the Muslim world are willing to cooperate in eradicating the nutcases - and, in fact, have more to lose from their success than we do.

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We're in the civilizational war, me thinks. However, the Muslims so far have copied the American Indian playbook of being more brutal to each other than their outside enemies.

I'd go one step farther...there are moderate voices within Islam that could be successfully co opted, but most don't have the combat power to defend themselves. Sistani comes immediately to mind.

I would honestly make a public pronouncement that the US makes no stand on the nature of any recognized Islamic government, understanding that Islam itself is pretty muted on the issue of democracy. This would help square the circle of support to the Saudis or Egyptian military while demanding democracy in Iraq or Turkey. However, should the US be identified as the "Far Enemy" and attacked, we reserve the right to pursue the perpetrators anywhere in Umma. I would do everything possible to make attacking the Far Enemy a dangerous enterprise.
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 11:33:40 PM EDT
[#3]
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Looks a lot like Dearborn, Michigan
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Thanks for posting that, because I am SO glad that I live in Michigan instead of the UK or Europe or Canada.
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 11:44:11 PM EDT
[#4]
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In case you haven't been paying attention, we already are importing those problems.  What we aren't importing is the solutions that have proven effective at dealing with them.
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The "fight club" dynamic is no doubt part of it, but I think there is more.

My experience with Mexican Americans is that first Gen and illegals are just glad to be here. The ones who join la raza (or voice similar resentment of the US) have generally been here 2 or more generations.


There's a lot of that, identity is a funny thing.  People want to find their roots, and the crazies are actively recruiting, and appealing to that emotion. See also:  the IRA thing in the '70s. When an actual effective program to screen the Muslim population is in place - like what the NYPD had - it gets exposed and the screams of racism echo through the streets.  Like in most issues, nobody is allowing room for sanity.  Liberals accept all of the derpiest derp as simply "Islam" and decry attempts to limit it as religious discrimination.  Conservatives often  agree with the former, and only disagree with the latter.  The few places I have seen sane and effective policies against Islamist crazies have been in majority Muslim countries. Liberals are unwilling or afraid to draw a line, Conservatives deny there is a line.

I guess that is another parallel with the Mexican immigrant thing - sane policies of work visas and enforcement are impossible as long as there is political hay to be made.


Why would we want to import these problems(in red), and a culture that has been antagonistic towards the west for 1300 years?  The world is full of people that are partially westernized, or share complimentary cultural traits, and our unemployment is still high.  


In case you haven't been paying attention, we already are importing those problems.  What we aren't importing is the solutions that have proven effective at dealing with them.


I'm paying attention; and the most effective solution, from a historical and legal standpoint, is to quit importing those more likely to cause problems.  Nothing will be done either way, till the politicians feel the flames at their feet.  
Link Posted: 12/18/2014 11:54:48 PM EDT
[#5]
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We're in the civilizational war, me thinks. However, the Muslims so far have copied the American Indian playbook of being more brutal to each other than their outside enemies.

I'd go one step farther...there are moderate voices within Islam that could be successfully co opted, but most don't have the combat power to defend themselves. Sistani comes immediately to mind.

I would honestly make a public pronouncement that the US makes no stand on the nature of any recognized Islamic government, understanding that Islam itself is pretty muted on the issue of democracy. This would help square the circle of support to the Saudis or Egyptian military while demanding democracy in Iraq or Turkey. However, should the US be identified as the "Far Enemy" and attacked, we reserve the right to pursue the perpetrators anywhere in Umma. I would do everything possible to make attacking the Far Enemy a dangerous enterprise.
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The best we could hope for in some protracted civilizational war would be an end state close to what we enjoy now - a situation where the local governing authorities throughout most of the Muslim world are willing to cooperate in eradicating the nutcases - and, in fact, have more to lose from their success than we do.



We're in the civilizational war, me thinks. However, the Muslims so far have copied the American Indian playbook of being more brutal to each other than their outside enemies.

I'd go one step farther...there are moderate voices within Islam that could be successfully co opted, but most don't have the combat power to defend themselves. Sistani comes immediately to mind.

I would honestly make a public pronouncement that the US makes no stand on the nature of any recognized Islamic government, understanding that Islam itself is pretty muted on the issue of democracy. This would help square the circle of support to the Saudis or Egyptian military while demanding democracy in Iraq or Turkey. However, should the US be identified as the "Far Enemy" and attacked, we reserve the right to pursue the perpetrators anywhere in Umma. I would do everything possible to make attacking the Far Enemy a dangerous enterprise.


I'd be happy if we stopped using the term "democracy" so casually.  Fuck, the word means a hundred different things to folks in GD.  But it's a hundred times worse elsewhere.  Our messaging problem only gets worse from there.

As for the Indian Playbook, I'm a Crook fan, and he frankly informs a lot of my thinking on this issue.  Though, I suppose to many he was a "libtard Indian apologist" or what not.  Crooks viewed his war as a civilization war - but realized the way to win it was to win the enemy over to our civilization.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 12:01:59 AM EDT
[#6]
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As for the Indian Playbook, I'm a Crook fan, and he frankly informs a lot of my thinking on this issue.  Though, I suppose to many he was a "libtard Indian apologist" or what not.  Crooks views=ed his war as a civilization war - but realized the way to win it was to win the enemy over to our civilization.
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Crook was brilliant on multiple levels. To me its indicative of our real interest in COIN or population centric warfare that Crook is a mystery to even Army officers, where everyone knows Patton. I'd argue that even Patton was the third or fourth best maneuverist in the history of the US Army, after Grant, Sherman, and Greene.

Crook's ultimate COIN innovation was ultimately extra-Constitutional...I don't think that anyone really thought that Indians should be arguing for their positions in a court, vs. in the field of battle. He figured out how to do it.

And of course the Air Force renamed Ft. Crook after a rich local banker's kid killed in an airplane accident.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 2:03:19 AM EDT
[#7]
Tagged for later viewing
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 8:27:20 AM EDT
[#8]
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Crook was brilliant on multiple levels. To me its indicative of our real interest in COIN or population centric warfare that Crook is a mystery to even Army officers, where everyone knows Patton. I'd argue that even Patton was the third or fourth best maneuverist in the history of the US Army, after Grant, Sherman, and Greene.

Crook's ultimate COIN innovation was ultimately extra-Constitutional...I don't think that anyone really thought that Indians should be arguing for their positions in a court, vs. in the field of battle. He figured out how to do it.

And of course the Air Force renamed Ft. Crook after a rich local banker's kid killed in an airplane accident.
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As for the Indian Playbook, I'm a Crook fan, and he frankly informs a lot of my thinking on this issue.  Though, I suppose to many he was a "libtard Indian apologist" or what not.  Crooks views=ed his war as a civilization war - but realized the way to win it was to win the enemy over to our civilization.


Crook was brilliant on multiple levels. To me its indicative of our real interest in COIN or population centric warfare that Crook is a mystery to even Army officers, where everyone knows Patton. I'd argue that even Patton was the third or fourth best maneuverist in the history of the US Army, after Grant, Sherman, and Greene.

Crook's ultimate COIN innovation was ultimately extra-Constitutional...I don't think that anyone really thought that Indians should be arguing for their positions in a court, vs. in the field of battle. He figured out how to do it.

And of course the Air Force renamed Ft. Crook after a rich local banker's kid killed in an airplane accident.


Grant?  The fuck?

Grant was a 300 pound fighter against a 180 pound boxer.

"Dance, bitch, dance.  I'm still going to beat your ass."
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 8:30:06 AM EDT
[#9]
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Grant?  The fuck?

Grant was a 300 pound fighter against a 180 pound boxer.

"Dance, bitch, dance.  I'm still going to beat your ass."
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As for the Indian Playbook, I'm a Crook fan, and he frankly informs a lot of my thinking on this issue.  Though, I suppose to many he was a "libtard Indian apologist" or what not.  Crooks views=ed his war as a civilization war - but realized the way to win it was to win the enemy over to our civilization.


Crook was brilliant on multiple levels. To me its indicative of our real interest in COIN or population centric warfare that Crook is a mystery to even Army officers, where everyone knows Patton. I'd argue that even Patton was the third or fourth best maneuverist in the history of the US Army, after Grant, Sherman, and Greene.

Crook's ultimate COIN innovation was ultimately extra-Constitutional...I don't think that anyone really thought that Indians should be arguing for their positions in a court, vs. in the field of battle. He figured out how to do it.

And of course the Air Force renamed Ft. Crook after a rich local banker's kid killed in an airplane accident.


Grant?  The fuck?

Grant was a 300 pound fighter against a 180 pound boxer.

"Dance, bitch, dance.  I'm still going to beat your ass."


The Vicksburg campaign? Shit, entire Western theater? Or, the greatest Joint campaign since the invasion of Mexico and not to be paralleled until 80 years later?
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 8:31:56 AM EDT
[#10]
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The Vicksburg campaign? Shit, entire Western theater? Or, the greatest Joint campaign since the invasion of Mexico and not to be paralleled until 80 years later?
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As for the Indian Playbook, I'm a Crook fan, and he frankly informs a lot of my thinking on this issue.  Though, I suppose to many he was a "libtard Indian apologist" or what not.  Crooks views=ed his war as a civilization war - but realized the way to win it was to win the enemy over to our civilization.


Crook was brilliant on multiple levels. To me its indicative of our real interest in COIN or population centric warfare that Crook is a mystery to even Army officers, where everyone knows Patton. I'd argue that even Patton was the third or fourth best maneuverist in the history of the US Army, after Grant, Sherman, and Greene.

Crook's ultimate COIN innovation was ultimately extra-Constitutional...I don't think that anyone really thought that Indians should be arguing for their positions in a court, vs. in the field of battle. He figured out how to do it.

And of course the Air Force renamed Ft. Crook after a rich local banker's kid killed in an airplane accident.


Grant?  The fuck?

Grant was a 300 pound fighter against a 180 pound boxer.

"Dance, bitch, dance.  I'm still going to beat your ass."


The Vicksburg campaign? Shit, entire Western theater? Or, the greatest Joint campaign since the invasion of Mexico and not to be paralleled until 80 years later?


You are confusing moving with maneuver.

"Where enemy?  I go there."

Don't get me wrong, I greatly admire Grant for his strategy and steadfastness.  But as some sort of model of operational maneuver warfare, eh..............  Not feeling it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 8:39:28 AM EDT
[#11]
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The 9/11 hijackers came from comfortable, middle class backgrounds, many university educated. Three of the four 7/7 suicide bombers were born in the UK and had university educations. The morons who set themselves on fire trying to bomb Glasgow airport were a doctor and a engineer studying for a PHD. The two jihadists who murdered Lee Rigby were born in London and went to university there. The "underpants bomber" was the son of a Nigerian banker and studied engineering at University College London and a number of other universities arround the world. Nidal Hasan was both a psychologist and a major in the US Army. The current British poster boy for ISIS had been offered a place studying medicine at Oxford or Cambridge before he left for Syria. al-Zawakiri was a surgeon before he joined Al Qaeda. Not to mention the fact that even after his family disowned him and cut him off, bin Laden was a multi millionaire who started Al Qaeda with his own personal money.

The individual insurgent shooting up a passing convoy in Iraq or Afghanistan or Somalia may be an illiterate goat herder who can count to potato, but the actual terrorists operating in the West are most certainly not impoverished peasants scraping a living in a refugee camp.
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Poverty breeds openness to extremism no matter the religion.

Wealth breeds bleeding heart ignorance.


Muslims can be awesome regular joes just like any other religion. When you bring generationally impoverished extremists into your country expect them to act like generationally impoverished extremists who  fall to their religions poverty pimps and see injustice in the most basic of law enforcement procedures.


The 9/11 hijackers came from comfortable, middle class backgrounds, many university educated. Three of the four 7/7 suicide bombers were born in the UK and had university educations. The morons who set themselves on fire trying to bomb Glasgow airport were a doctor and a engineer studying for a PHD. The two jihadists who murdered Lee Rigby were born in London and went to university there. The "underpants bomber" was the son of a Nigerian banker and studied engineering at University College London and a number of other universities arround the world. Nidal Hasan was both a psychologist and a major in the US Army. The current British poster boy for ISIS had been offered a place studying medicine at Oxford or Cambridge before he left for Syria. al-Zawakiri was a surgeon before he joined Al Qaeda. Not to mention the fact that even after his family disowned him and cut him off, bin Laden was a multi millionaire who started Al Qaeda with his own personal money.

The individual insurgent shooting up a passing convoy in Iraq or Afghanistan or Somalia may be an illiterate goat herder who can count to potato, but the actual terrorists operating in the West are most certainly not impoverished peasants scraping a living in a refugee camp.




Bam!
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 8:49:47 AM EDT
[#12]
the cleric talking about following only Sharia law is the same prick that Hannity has jumped on recently.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 8:57:25 AM EDT
[#13]
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The only people I have ever heard of not showing tolerance in Dearborn are the Christian Anti-Muslim A-holes
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This is exactly why people don't oppose Islam. As soon as they do, they get derided for being something else, in this case Christian. In other cases it's racist, etc.

Keep up the good work.

Link Posted: 12/19/2014 8:58:12 AM EDT
[#14]
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Liberals know more about islam than muslims.

Which is not suprising.  They also know how I should spend my money better than I do.

They really are a superior form of human being.
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She's quite naive.  She's trying to tell them that Islam is respectful and peaceful.  They're very clearly explaining the truth about Islam to her.  She seems to think they're wrong.  They're not.  

It is a violent and dangerous cult whose adherents are incompatible with civilized people.  

Liberals know more about islam than muslims.

Which is not suprising.  They also know how I should spend my money better than I do.

They really are a superior form of human being.

They also know more about Christianity and the Bible, but I can never get them to sit down with me for a Bible study so they can explain it to me.

Link Posted: 12/19/2014 9:01:59 AM EDT
[#15]
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Extremists on both sides are a major problem everywhere.

Religion
 
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Been to Dearborn? Looks just like the video.
We are losing because we are trying to be tolerant of other peoples religions and ethnicity, when they have NO tolerance of us. Even when they have moved here.


The only people I have ever heard of not showing tolerance in Dearborn are the Christian Anti-Muslim A-holes who protest any and every gathering the Muslims have.

Link

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/7848a3e4e6b588aad41e1aebd534e89ba03dd257/c=0-48-512-336&r=x1803&c=3200x1800/local/-/media/DetroitFreePress/2014/10/29/biblebelievers.jpg

We looked forward to this every year, now they have chosen to not host the event again due to tensions.

Extremists on both sides are a major problem everywhere.

Religion
 

If Islam is one side, what is the other side? Atheist extremists, I assume?

If you're alluding to extremist Christians, what horrors have they perpetrated on Canada or, for that matter, anywhere else in the world? Did you hear someone mention Jesus or something?
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 9:04:51 AM EDT
[#16]
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If Islam is one side, what is the other side? Atheist extremists, I assume?
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Been to Dearborn? Looks just like the video.
We are losing because we are trying to be tolerant of other peoples religions and ethnicity, when they have NO tolerance of us. Even when they have moved here.


The only people I have ever heard of not showing tolerance in Dearborn are the Christian Anti-Muslim A-holes who protest any and every gathering the Muslims have.

Link

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/7848a3e4e6b588aad41e1aebd534e89ba03dd257/c=0-48-512-336&r=x1803&c=3200x1800/local/-/media/DetroitFreePress/2014/10/29/biblebelievers.jpg

We looked forward to this every year, now they have chosen to not host the event again due to tensions.

Extremists on both sides are a major problem everywhere.

Religion
 

If Islam is one side, what is the other side? Atheist extremists, I assume?


Christians are just as bad as muslims.

Atheists are so smart, they see through the differences of western civilization and the middle east and see they are, in actuality, exactly the same.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 9:07:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Il didn't read all three pages, so I'm not sure if someone has  mentioned this.

But isn't this situation already happening in some town in the north east?  But with Hasidic Jews.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 9:49:39 AM EDT
[#18]
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Il didn't read all three pages, so I'm not sure if someone has  mentioned this.

But isn't this situation already happening in some town in the north east?  But with Hasidic Jews.
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The raping, terrorism and the decapitating, or the condescending dirty looks?
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 9:51:50 AM EDT
[#19]
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The raping, terrorism and the decapitating, or the condescending dirty looks?
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Il didn't read all three pages, so I'm not sure if someone has  mentioned this.

But isn't this situation already happening in some town in the north east?  But with Hasidic Jews.


The raping, terrorism and the decapitating, or the condescending dirty looks?


whats the difference?
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 10:08:38 AM EDT
[#20]
Saw on the news where we are prepping to allow thousands or middle eastern refugees.  Damn we are stupid  

IMO, we ought to declare Islam a dangerous cult instead of religion, because that's what it appears to be.

Link Posted: 12/19/2014 10:17:06 AM EDT
[#21]
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They also know more about Christianity and the Bible, but I can never get them to sit down with me for a Bible study so they can explain it to me.

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She's quite naive.  She's trying to tell them that Islam is respectful and peaceful.  They're very clearly explaining the truth about Islam to her.  She seems to think they're wrong.  They're not.  

It is a violent and dangerous cult whose adherents are incompatible with civilized people.  

Liberals know more about islam than muslims.

Which is not suprising.  They also know how I should spend my money better than I do.

They really are a superior form of human being.

They also know more about Christianity and the Bible, but I can never get them to sit down with me for a Bible study so they can explain it to me.



Email Nancy Pelosi. She had to educate the Pope on Catholic doctrine a few years back.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 10:17:55 AM EDT
[#22]
Ending should have been her being disappointed opening up with a ma duece. And then Make some witty British comment about taking the trash out or something.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 10:22:14 AM EDT
[#23]
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Coming to a town in America any day now, hell probably already well established what was I thinking
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Team 0 is working on it.
Link Posted: 12/19/2014 11:00:49 AM EDT
[#24]
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the libs in this country have no clue what they are supporting.
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Ya think?
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