Do you like Bullpup Rifles? - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Do you like Bullpup Rifles? (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 7/22/2004 11:26:06 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
I love bullpups - I think they are the logical evolution of the assault rifle. As long as they are left/right switchable, they are definitely a superior and smarter design.

Worrying about kabooms is like driving an Amish horsebuggy instead of a car because you're afraid of the gasoline exploding and killing you.

Remember that the Mauser Broomhandle was a great design until the Luger (or earlier Borchard) put the magazine BEHIND the trigger, rather than in front, so the overall gun could be shorter, better balanced, and still retain the same (or longer) barrel length.

Well stated, Prof. IMHO, I agree wholeheartedly with the "logical evolution" part of your statement. Of all the rifles, carbines, etc. I've shot, trained with and played with, the Steyr AUG is far and away my favorite. Love the Bull-Pup!

Posted: 7/22/2004 11:44:29 AM EDT

[#2]

Not at all.

Posted: 7/22/2004 12:39:55 PM EDT

[#3]

got an email back from barrett, didn't tell me anything i didn't already know. The responce was a "simple we did not put them into production"

Posted: 7/22/2004 12:54:45 PM EDT

[#4]

Fugly.
Ergonomics suck.
Fugly.
As irrational as it may be, having the chamber right by my face is not very comforting.
Fugly.
Slow reloads (try reloading quickly while prone for a good laugh).
Fugly.
Can't shoot normally around corners with the left side if you are right handed.
Fugly.

I'll pass. Thank you very much.

Posted: 7/22/2004 1:40:36 PM EDT

[#5]

Had a "real" 16" black Steyr AUG, paid $1600 for it, sold it this year for $4000, wish I had it back, it was a sweet shooter. They are a very accurate & reliable weapon, I loved the 16" barrel on a short package. Only drawbacks are price and RH or LH use at one time. I would rather have 4 or 5 nice AR's for the money though.

teamroper2004

Posted: 7/22/2004 1:50:42 PM EDT

[#6]

Wasn't there a bullpup that ejects collected brass out the front of the weapon? I'm sure I saw it in a magazine not too long ago. That should eliminate the ambidextrous debate. As far as the chamber being next to your face, it's a .223 not a 50BMG! (Although some of 50's are of a bullpup designs.) It's a matter of front of your eyes chamber or next to your cheek, but there is more than substantial upper to protect me on my M17s.

Posted: 7/22/2004 3:31:59 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Ergonomics suck.

wrong

Slow reloads (try reloading quickly while prone for a good laugh).

wrong

Can't shoot normally around corners with the left side if you are right handed.

wrong

If you actually KNOW what you are doing you know all of the above are not true.

I love when people who have no actual experience post their opinion.

Posted: 7/22/2004 8:47:12 PM EDT

[#8]

I'll admit that a couple of those bullet points are somewhat subjective. It's interesting that you don't debate that they are fugly, however. Obviously you realize that!

Posted: 7/26/2004 7:41:36 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
...How about bullpup shotguns?... I do still have a Mossberg Bullpup 12 Gauge.

(no pics here at the office - I'll try to remember to take one tonight & post it tomorrow)

Okay - took me a few days to remember...

Posted: 7/26/2004 7:43:48 AM EDT

[#10]

I seen them Bullpup Mossbergs before but never with that big azz Flash Suppressor!

Posted: 7/26/2004 7:47:14 AM EDT

[#11]

That's the first time I saw them.
Good one HardShell.
How does it shoot?

Posted: 7/26/2004 7:50:16 AM EDT

[#12]

I don't like them either...

Posted: 7/26/2004 7:51:46 AM EDT

[#13]

Anyone seen the new Walther G22?

Posted: 7/26/2004 7:51:58 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
That's the first time I saw them.
Good one HardShell.
How does it shoot?

Horrible.

But I just can't bring myself to part with it because of the gee whiz factor - everybody who sees that thing for the first time gets wide-eyed and asks "What's that?"

Posted: 7/26/2004 7:54:11 AM EDT

[#15]

This needs a poll.

CQC

Posted: 7/26/2004 8:00:58 AM EDT

[#16]

Those that don't like the bullpup, have you ever fired them?
I mean like a Steyr AUG or M17s. (Well designed and made bullpups)
They're more than what meets the eye.

RE: HardShell's bullpup shot gun
I see a lot of those AK,mini14,etc. conversions, and found them to be just the "gee whiz" factors too. Stick with those that were designed to be bullpups from the start.

Posted: 7/26/2004 8:02:44 AM EDT

[#17]

Sorry about the lack of the poll.
I won the "find the treasure" contest, but still waiting on my membership to process.
Good idea though.

Posted: 7/26/2004 8:06:32 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Wasn't there a bullpup that ejects collected brass out the front of the weapon? I'm sure I saw it in a magazine not too long ago. That should eliminate the ambidextrous debate. As far as the chamber being next to your face, it's a .223 not a 50BMG! (Although some of 50's are of a bullpup designs.) It's a matter of front of your eyes chamber or next to your cheek, but there is more than substantial upper to protect me on my M17s.

FN2000

The ejector system is very complex, and likely jam prone (pushes the brass op a tube that exits out the front)...

Once it jams, you're screwed, as you'd have to take down the rifle to clear the tube....

Posted: 7/26/2004 8:07:56 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Those that don't like the bullpup, have you ever fired them?
I mean like a Steyr AUG or M17s. (Well designed and made bullpups)
They're more than what meets the eye.

RE: HardShell's bullpup shot gun
I see a lot of those AK,mini14,etc. conversions, and found them to be just the "gee whiz" factors too. Stick with those that were designed to be bullpups from the start.

That was a factory designed gun...

Mossberg made them for a few years... They were not very successful.

Posted: 7/26/2004 8:09:15 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For some reason the only bullpup I like is the israeli Tavor bullpup. I'd love to get one of those, but not the mutilated civilian version, I want an evil semi-auto version of the military one. which I don't think is even in the states or importable.

world.guns.ru/assault/tavor-tar.jpg

www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/small_arms/tavor/tarsharping.jpg

Check this shit out from a sight with pics from the 2002 shot show.
Angela Barrett of Barrett Firearms with their new Tavor 21 bullpup in .223. The very well-designed bullpup is fully convertible for left-hand operation and accepts standard AR-15 / M-16 magazines. This extremely handy gun will be available from Barrett in mid-2002.

As far as I know that never happened, anyone know how/where I can find out more I really want one of these guns.

IIRC the Tavor is made here & exported to Israel, as part of their aid deal...

Yet no one here sells them? That sucks if it's true. I put in an e-mail to Barrett asking about it to see if I could get some info, I hope they can give me something.

Try e-mailing IMI...

IIRC, IMI will be producing them in the USA and re-exporting them to Israel.

They were talking about building a US factory, and also producing semi-Uzis for US civillian sale once the 94 ban died...

Posted: 7/26/2004 8:19:21 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Those that don't like the bullpup, have you ever fired them?
I mean like a Steyr AUG or M17s. (Well designed and made bullpups)
They're more than what meets the eye.

RE: HardShell's bullpup shot gun
I see a lot of those AK,mini14,etc. conversions, and found them to be just the "gee whiz" factors too. Stick with those that were designed to be bullpups from the start.

That was a factory designed gun...

Mossberg made them for a few years... They were not very successful.

Oh. Didn't know they were factory designed. My Bad.

I'm glad they weren't successful though, if it shoots like HardShell says.

Posted: 7/26/2004 8:19:59 AM EDT

[#22]

I don't like the looks of them. But then again I have never shot one.

Posted: 7/26/2004 8:51:02 AM EDT

[#23]

I think judging them on appearance rather than function is like a chick that says, "I want that car because I love the color."

In my value system I rate function above appearance.

If you can get both, bonus.

Posted: 7/26/2004 10:03:36 AM EDT

[#24]

I like my M17S, which looks like this:

C_M

{edited to add} There is a tireless M17-bashing crew that hang around here, though.

Posted: 7/26/2004 10:06:05 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
I like my M17S, which looks like this:

home.mebtel.net/~hicksfam/guns/bullpup-mod.jpg

C_M

{edited to add} There is a tireless M17-bashing crew that hang around here, though.

NICE... Kurt's custom job?

Posted: 7/26/2004 10:10:02 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
I think judging them on appearance rather than function is like a chick that says, "I want that car because I love the color."

In my value system I rate function above appearance.

If you can get both, bonus.

Does this mean that you would take an AR if it had pink furnitur

e?

Posted: 7/26/2004 10:10:53 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I think judging them on appearance rather than function is like a chick that says, "I want that car because I love the color."

In my value system I rate function above appearance.

If you can get both, bonus.

Does this mean that you would take an AR if it had pink furniture?

That's not pink! It's Mauve!

Posted: 7/26/2004 12:39:20 PM EDT

[#28]

Don't make fun of the pink ARs. It will still kill you dead.

Posted: 7/28/2004 8:10:40 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I like my M17S, which looks like this:

C_M

{edited to add} There is a tireless M17-bashing crew that hang around here, though.

NICE... Kurt's custom job?

Yep! The rail on top is nice. The pictured folding cocking handle broke, so I replaced it with the original, which works great.

Posted: 7/28/2004 11:12:55 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I like my M17S, which looks like this:

home.mebtel.net/~hicksfam/guns/bullpup-mod.jpg

C_M

{edited to add} There is a tireless M17-bashing crew that hang around here, though.

NICE... Kurt's custom job?
Yep! The rail on top is nice. The pictured folding cocking handle broke, so I replaced it with the original, which works great.

I think M17S are one of the most underappreciated rifles around. I like the looks of the AUG, but for the price, M17s are best values around.
21" Cromelined barrels, self regulating/cleaning gas system,... would like a lighter trigger pull though.

Posted: 7/28/2004 11:57:53 PM EDT

[#31]

I think the M17's are a good bang for the buck. Ive done a little tweaking to mine and still have some things to work on but have been pretty satisfied thus far. Im a left handed shooter and have been able to use the rifle with a simple deflector I mounted near the ejection port. The smoke gets a little bothersome on days with very little wind but its nothing I lose sleep over.

Posted: 7/29/2004 1:26:12 AM EDT

[#32]

It seems like most of the negative remarks come down to bullpups being different from what people are used to even though the AUG has been around for about 30 years now. I dont think most people appreciate just how compact and manouverable a bullpup is. The AUG with a 20" barrel is 31" long while a 20" AR is 42". Thats more than a foot shorter. US forces are willing to accept the reduced lethality of the 14.5" barrel of the M4 to have a more compact weapon while an AUG with a full length barrel is still 2" shorter than the M4 and one with a 16" barrel is only 27". All of the shortcomings mentioned can be overcome with training. After 100 rounds, you dont even notice that the chamber is in the stock. The sight is extemely effective...put the 'donut of death' on the target; hit target. It is also balanced extemely well. The CoG is right over the pistol grip so it is very easy to carry. The only problems I've ever heard of were with the F88 produced in Australia and that was because they didnt follow the Steyr specs and used an inferior polymer on early models.